Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[NeonLights223]

I tested these side by side and do not see a difference in any of these moves. And I simply don't know what you're talking about regarding Cape and a new falling animation off the ledge.

Really? Gonna have to retest em then. sorry about that.

In terms of the cape and landing animation, if you run off a ledge in the recent patch, MK goes into this glide-like animation before goig back into his normal animation. And the cape thing i found is weird too:

Basically, if you Dimensonal cape and land on a platform after the Teleport and while hes putting the cape away, he ends up with no/less endlag than normal.

 

[Anomilus]

Sorry if old and got no proof, but Mega Man's Dash Attack got a new graphic effect around his feet. Wasn't looking for any changes, but it definitely stood out during a match.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Really? Gonna have to retest em then. sorry about that.

In terms of the cape and landing animation, if you run off a ledge in the recent patch, MK goes into this glide-like animation before goig back into his normal animation. And the cape thing i found is weird too:

Basically, if you Dimensonal cape and land on a platform after the Teleport and while hes putting the cape away, he ends up with no/less endlag than normal.

I see this glide animation you are referring to. MK flaps his wings once as he falls. However, it was there before the patch.

As for Cape, I know now what part of the animation you're talking about, but it isn't reducing the cape's end lag when I try it. If this is happening for you, then it may be a cool glitch that I encourage you to get a replay of and send it to somebody that can record the footage for study.

Sheik needles have more cooldown:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZeRoSSB/tweets

I don't see a change. And he isn't citing any source or criteria for why he might be correct.

 

[Graminthesalmon]

Has anyone confirmed or deconfirmed the nerf on Luigi? Supposedly his D-throw has less combo potential as it has scaling knock back based on damage as opposed to fixed knock back.

 

[san.]

Has anyone confirmed or deconfirmed the nerf on Luigi? Supposedly his D-throw has less combo potential as it has scaling knock back based on damage as opposed to fixed knock back.

It definitely scales with damage since it kills at 999%. As far as better/worse combo potential, I have no idea.

 

[Link24a]

i dont know if anyone's said this yet, but ness's down b has a much more significant windbox. i only tried this on the sandbag though

 

[Ffamran]

Unfortunately, I don't have a means to record this, but pre-patch, on Battlefield and under the lower platforms Falco's Up Smash would hit with either the 4% hit or the 12% hit depending on how you spaced it. Up Smash would rarely if ever connect both hits. You'd have to use Utilt if you wanted to hit from below a platform. Now, the 4% hit doesn't register - it did once against ROB - and only the 12% hit registers.

Tested on the 3DS against Dr. Mario, Bowser, Mr. Game & Watch, and ROB. Tried to check different hurtboxes. So, sort of a buff, but more of a mechanics or platform interaction change. Not sure if this is the same in the Wii U or on other stages with low platforms like Battlefield. It's also not a complete fix since I managed only once to connect the 4% hit for some reason. As long as the hitbix connects, it'll do the 12%. So reverse, straight below, or even spaces. I don't know why that one 4% happened though out of other tries.

 

[NeonLights223]

I see this glide animation you are referring to. MK flaps his wings once as he falls. However, it was there before the patch.

As for Cape, I know now what part of the animation you're talking about, but it isn't reducing the cape's end lag when I try it. If this is happening for you, then it may be a cool glitch that I encourage you to get a replay of and send it to somebody that can record the footage for study.

Yeah ima get it recorded as soon as possible. Its pretty interesting

 

[Shaya]

Windboxes destroy sandbags.

 

[Graminthesalmon]

i dont know if anyone's said this yet, but ness's down b has a much more significant windbox. i only tried this on the sandbag though

Try and test this on players. I mean it's not a very important change seeing as I've never seen someone use PSI magnet to push people, but it may be more significant now that there is less cool down on it.

 

[Yonder]

Nice to see Game and Watch got...a speck more kill power in D tilt. And loooving the new Villager up B according to the OP

Has anyone confirmed or deconfirmed the nerf on Luigi? Supposedly his D-throw has less combo potential as it has scaling knock back based on damage as opposed to fixed knock back.

Combos are unchanged, I can still do all of my usual Luigi combos out of a D throw. What's up for debate is if Luigi's tornado is easier to SDI out of on the final hit, I'm not too sure...you can still definitely kill early with it though regardless.

 

[Link24a]

Windboxes destroy sandbags.

ive used it many times against the sandbag in online waiting rooms and its pushing it back about 3 times as far now. probably should try this on an actual character though but i cant rn

 

[Graminthesalmon]

Combos are unchanged, I can still do all of my usual Luigi combos out of a D throw. What's up for debate is if Luigi's tornado is easier to SDI out of on the final hit, I'm not too sure...you can still definitely kill early with it though regardless.

Huh, a lot of people were upset yesterday because they thought he got nerfed and shiek didn't supposedly, guess it's just a placebo. It's pretty difficult to test if you can di out of the tornado because it's dependent on both inputs

 

[Shaya]

Diddy got a buff with his jabs. The hits after the first come out significantly faster & it combos now. Essentially it is faster & has less whiffs. Should be added to list as it is important

You've made this post three times now, as stated in the OP you need evidence. Either ask if someone's willing to test or do tests of your own and show us the results.

----

So Link Dtilt/Dthrow up 1%, grab range longer, Dthrow trajectory changed. (is this all right?)
Samus Up Smash knock back increased noticeably

Have I missed any notable confirms otherwise?

 

[Kiing07]

You've made this post three times now, as stated in the OP you need evidence. Either ask if someone's willing to test or do tests of your own and show us the results.

----

So Link Dtilt/Dthrow up 1%, grab range longer, Dthrow trajectory changed. (is this all right?)
Samus Up Smash knock back increased noticeably

Have I missed any notable confirms otherwise?

I'm not gonna test it again as I have multiple times let alone record it. You guys can test it but I can guarantee it's faster & better than pre-patch

 

[LimitCrown]

So Link Dtilt/Dthrow up 1%, grab range longer, Dthrow trajectory changed. (is this all right?)
Samus Up Smash knock back increased noticeably

Have I missed any notable confirms otherwise?

Actually, the damage output of Link's down tilt and down throw decreased by 1%.

The repeating hits of Palutena's up tilt deals 1.2% now instead of 1%. Also, the Mii Swordfighter travels closer to the ground while using Airborne Assault.

 

[Shaya]

According to master core, Palutena's up tilt doesn't have repeating hits. If I'm understanding this right you can only be hit twice by palu's up tilt and the first hit has an extremely long duration (29 FRAMES). This is weird because my memory makes me think otherwise, but the Group ID (which is used to differentiate different 'hits' [exists on marth/lucina up smash]) isn't used.
In which case a .2% buff on what only amasses as a single hit seems pretty superfluous. Is what I'm understanding about the move from Master Core wrong?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

As for Link's Dthrow trajectory, it's changed from 110 to 85 degrees.

I'm looking at how far Ness' Psi Magnet pushes characters, and the distance seems unchanged.

For Diddy, @ Kiing07 7 you'll have to be more specific. Saying "it combos now" doesn't tell us what has changed. That could mean that the multi jab is improved or that the Jab 1, 2, and 3 hits have angular or knockback changes. Give us details. I'm looking at the speed of performing Jab 2 and Jab 3, and something does seem different. If you want my guess, it's jab 3 that's coming out faster, but not 2. I can try to provide video evidence of pre patch on the Wii U if anybody wants to do the same for post patch for comparison.

 

[Lavani]

According to master core, Palutena's up tilt doesn't have repeating hits. If I'm understanding this right you can only be hit twice by palu's up tilt and the first hit has an extremely long duration (29 FRAMES). This is weird because my memory makes me think otherwise, but the Group ID (which is used to differentiate different 'hits' [exists on marth/lucina up smash]) isn't used.
In which case a .2% buff on what only amasses as a single hit seems pretty superfluous. Is what I'm understanding about the move from Master Core wrong?

The initial hitboxes on utilt refresh five times for a total of six hits

 

[Shaya]

Gosh that's silly (and why isn't that used more liberally)
Alright, thanks.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

And @ Shaya you're missing some Diddy Kong damage changes. Uthrow deals 5% from 8%, and Dthrow deals 7 from 6.

 

[Kiing07]

And @ Shaya you're missing some Diddy Kong damage changes. Uthrow deals 5% from 8%, and Dthrow deals 7 from 6.

Yeah he's also missing the jab buff on Diddy

As for Link's Dthrow trajectory, it's changed from 110 to 85 degrees.

I'm looking at how far Ness' Psi Magnet pushes characters, and the distance seems unchanged.

For Diddy, @ Kiing07 7 you'll have to be more specific. Saying "it combos now" doesn't tell us what has changed. That could mean that the multi jab is improved or that the Jab 1, 2, and 3 hits have angular or knockback changes. Give us details. I'm looking at the speed of performing Jab 2 and Jab 3, and something does seem different. If you want my guess, it's jab 3 that's coming out faster, but not 2. I can try to provide video evidence of pre patch on the Wii U if anybody wants to do the same for post patch for comparison.

I was pretty specific in my post. I said jabs after 1 & I would assume everybody knows it's the hit then the tail combo (considered jab 3). I would say the jab 3 start up is faster & the tail hits combo at low %s

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I don't want to be rude to him, but I'm pretty sure he's the only person I've ever talked to who has felt that Ike was okay in 1.0.7 and prior.

Literally everyone else was like "This character needs HELP..."

Most of the Ike boards were perfectly happy with Ike in 1.0.7 and felt that he was mid tier. He's had results as high as 4th out of 250, and has won locals.

When you know how to use his auto-canceling moves well, his dtilt, and his throw game well, he's rather dangerous. I'll happily take the buffs but he didn't need them to be mid tier. This just make him the higher end of mid tier in non-customs instead of the lower end of mid tier.

 

[Shaya]

I find it funny that in the CCI thread I recently said the two things Ike needs to change is his jab and dash attack.
Jab as it isn't as strong in CQC as it once was and it should be (hitting better / more reliably is a start, still not a 1-2 repetition or follow ups like in Brawl / Fox in S4).
and dash attack because he legitimately did not have a mid-range game whatsoever (the side-b change also helps this too).

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Okay, it's clear to me now. With Diddy's Jab 3, he kicks and transitions to the tail multihit automatically (though it is possible to just kick if you hold A and don't let go until the FAF). I was confused because all I did know about Diddy's jabs is that they are poop.

As for what's changed, it's pretty clear to the eyes when you compare side by side on 1/4 time. The transition between Jab 3's kick and tail multihit is quicker.

Since all the hits are weight based, it doesn't necessarily make the move combo better (at least, not as some blanket statement). But a faster tail whip multihit means less chance of people jumping out of Diddy's jab combo prematurely, which IS a problem he had prior to the patch.

One more damage change to Diddy we forgot about. His Dtilt deals 5.5 % damage. Down from 6%.

 

[energyman2289]

I can guarantee that Little Mac has more lag after his USmash. I can feel the difference.

 

[90007000]

I can guarantee that Little Mac has more lag after his USmash. I can feel the difference.

Are you sure your Shulk?

 

[Kiing07]

@ Zapp Branniglenn yeah you're correct. I just didn't know the right way to word it & tried to keep it simple. It has less of a chance to whiff on certain characters but it definitely got better as his pre-patch jab combo was bad & top diddy's didn't use it

 

[Joshkip]

Not sure if this was already discussed but you can tech the first hit of toon link's dsmash.

 

[Firefoxx]

I'm not sure I understand the Falcon nair change. If its talking about the hitbox on his back, that still sends people behind him.

 

[S_B]

Most of the Ike boards were perfectly happy with Ike in 1.0.7 and felt that he was mid tier. He's had results as high as 4th out of 250, and has won locals.

I guess "most" of the Ike boards doesn't include those who are saying "FINALLY!!!", or the people who had given up on him but are now coming back to give him another chance.

I'm not being snarky: that's a lot of what's being said on the Ike boards right now.

I'll happily take the buffs but he didn't need them to be mid tier. This just make him the higher end of mid tier in non-customs instead of the lower end of mid tier.

If a tournament gets streamed and later put on youtube and has commentary, I watch it (unless it doesn't come up when searching for "ssb4 tournament" for whatever reason).

I haven't seen an Ike player in a tournament in months.

I have, however, seen the odd Bowser, Shulk and even a Duck Hunt (though all are rare).

This is the first time I've EVER seen anyone saying Ike was anything but terribad, and given my experience both playing as him and against him, I wasn't about to disagree with them.

I believe the buffs were warranted because it never made sense that everything Ike did (with the exception of maybe 2-3 moves) was so laggy that even Bowser could punish it. He didn't hit anywhere near hard enough to justify these moves being as slow as they are, so they either had to speed him up or make him hit harder, and given that making him hit harder would ruin casual play, we know which route they took.

 

[jaimex2]

Some minor changes to Sonic confirmed here:

-Dair has more IASA frames.
-Up smash kos about 10% later.
-Up throw barely has more kb.(barely does anything.)

 

[Vipermoon]

@ Shaya
Marth:
Nair has less landing lag. I'm now 100% certain that Nair has less landing lag. I'm willing to bet the exact number is 13 frames of landing lag (was 15). I know this because of feel (it feels like the same landing lag of when I Nair with Diddy, and I have always use a lot Nair with both Diddy and Marth, Diddy is 13 frames) and I know this because of Roy's landing lag. Listen to this: in the order of Nair, Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair; Roy is at 14, 16, 20, 17, and 29. That is 1 more frame of landing lag than Marth in every aerial except Fair (we have 18), mathematically that gives us 13 frames of Nair landing lag. But I need someone to actually find out. Anyone?

Landing sour Nair now easily combos into dancing blade (lower percents) and dash attack (mid percents) for what it's worth

 

[san.]

I guess "most" of the Ike boards doesn't include those who are saying "FINALLY!!!", or the people who had given up on him but are now coming back to give him another chance.

I'm not being snarky: that's a lot of what's being said on the Ike boards right now.



If a tournament gets streamed and later put on youtube and has commentary, I watch it (unless it doesn't come up when searching for "ssb4 tournament" for whatever reason).

I haven't seen an Ike player in a tournament in months.

I have, however, seen the odd Bowser, Shulk and even a Duck Hunt (though all are rare).

This is the first time I've EVER seen anyone saying Ike was anything but terribad, and given my experience both playing as him and against him, I wasn't about to disagree with them.

I believe the buffs were warranted because it never made sense that everything Ike did (with the exception of maybe 2-3 moves) was so laggy that even Bowser could punish it. He didn't hit anywhere near hard enough to justify these moves being as slow as they are, so they either had to speed him up or make him hit harder, and given that making him hit harder would ruin casual play, we know which route they took.

1.0.7 was mid because he had a good throw game up until high percents, could space decently well, and his bair was buffed to kill fairly easily. That combined with his weight allowed him to win attrition wars since he hit hard and took a lot of damage. Unfortunately, his spacing game was dismantled by many of the best speed characters, so Ike had to heavily read their movements much more.

Ike's landing lag was average, above average for a heavy. He wasn't that punishable when spacing correctly, but he had many gaps in his spacing due to smaller & ghost hitboxes. This allows Ike to space and zone much better.

Not only did they give fair some good hitboxes back, he has old nair landing lag, a decent punishing tilt and dash attack, and a better jab game for CQC. He has quite a few more death confirms that before were nearly frame-perfect as a requirement that are easy now.

Ike's quick draw has better startup, which means he's much harder to gimp since he can charge and retaliate with it earlier. Customs Ike becomes much better since Close Combat begins to breach reaction time and he doesn't have to be forced in uncharged recoveries since he has more time to charge. The startup prevented Close Combat from being that great offensively.

Many other characters were buffed so I don't know how Ike will end up, but I don't think he gets hard countered by anyone anymore at least.

 

[DUKEL]

You've made this post three times now, as stated in the OP you need evidence. Either ask if someone's willing to test or do tests of your own and show us the results.

----

So Link Dtilt/Dthrow up 1%, grab range longer, Dthrow trajectory changed. (is this all right?)
Samus Up Smash knock back increased noticeably

Have I missed any notable confirms otherwise?

Dtil/Dthrow down 1%, but with less knockback, setting up combos. Definitely a buff.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I guess "most" of the Ike boards doesn't include those who are saying "FINALLY!!!", or the people who had given up on him but are now coming back to give him another chance.

I'm not being snarky: that's a lot of what's being said on the Ike boards right now.



If a tournament gets streamed and later put on youtube and has commentary, I watch it (unless it doesn't come up when searching for "ssb4 tournament" for whatever reason).

I haven't seen an Ike player in a tournament in months.

I have, however, seen the odd Bowser, Shulk and even a Duck Hunt (though all are rare).

This is the first time I've EVER seen anyone saying Ike was anything but terribad, and given my experience both playing as him and against him, I wasn't about to disagree with them.

I believe the buffs were warranted because it never made sense that everything Ike did (with the exception of maybe 2-3 moves) was so laggy that even Bowser could punish it. He didn't hit anywhere near hard enough to justify these moves being as slow as they are, so they either had to speed him up or make him hit harder, and given that making him hit harder would ruin casual play, we know which route they took.

Most of those people aren't, and never were regulars. There was one in that lot that used to be, that's it. And obviously everyone likes buffs, particularly when one is a buff we've all been asking for (Dash Attack, Jab).

As I've said before in another topic: Ike gets results. HOWEVER: all of the top level Ikes live in places that don't stream, rarely if ever record footage at all, and don't post results officially. So people think Ike doesn't get results when he actually gets a decent amount. Nothing amazing, but he's out there more than most people realize. Heck, I won the one SSB4 tournament my town hosted with Ike, it sure didn't get posted anywhere on these boards.

Ike wasn't as laggy as you think. Nair when properly spaced was only -4 on shields (now like -1 or -2). Fair and Bair both fully auto-cancel. Dtilt is quick enough that most characters can't punish a spaced one. Ftilt's ending lag was buffed before, when spaced properly a lot of characters can't punish it. If you stuck with Jab/Fair/Bair/Nair/Dtilt/Grab with a bit of Ftilt thrown in, you could play an Ike that was actually really difficult to punish, and Ike himself wasn't lacking anything. He had spacing, combos (including one into a kill, if a bit finicky due to rage), kill moves: he was usable at a mid tier level and able to win things.

Now with this buff we get to add Dash Attack to that list (meaning we now have a good mid range game), and Nair's buff means we have more combos. Fair's hitbox fix means we have more kill confirms out of Uthrow, and they're much more consistent. That last change alone makes the Fox MU a lot better for example: we can actually kill him fairly early now due to his lightweight.

 

[Shaya]

@ Shaya
Marth:
Nair has less landing lag. I'm now 100% certain that Nair has less landing lag. I'm willing to bet the exact number is 13 frames of landing lag (was 15). I know this because of feel (it feels like the same landing lag of when I Nair with Diddy, and I have always use a lot Nair with both Diddy and Marth, Diddy is 13 frames) and I know this because of Roy's landing lag. Listen to this: in the order of Nair, Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair; Roy is at 14, 16, 20, 17, and 29. That is 1 more frame of landing lag than Marth in every aerial except Fair (we have 18), mathematically that gives us 13 frames of Nair landing lag. But I need someone to actually find out. Anyone?

Landing sour Nair now easily combos into dancing blade (lower percents) and dash attack (mid percents) for what it's worth

I believe you but I'd like some proper number behind it because I'm just that pedantic with Falchion wielders

 

[SackThing101]

Ike: Bair hits in front of him. I'm not sure if this was in the previous patch, but as an Ike main, I never noticed this.

Also, sorry for spreading false information (if this is false), but Ike's fsmash seems to have a slightly more broken hitbox than before.

 

[yoshi8984]

Question - considering that the edge cancel thing is now gone where you can no longer slide off them with moves for momentum (i.e. Mario's Cape, Ness' PK Thunder & Fire, Zelda's Nayru's Love, etc.), would that mean this thing regarding techs on the edge is gone as well? I don't even know how I did that in the first place lol, but it might be interesting.

Unsure if it could've been Greninja pushing me as well lol.

 

[Vipermoon]

I believe you but I'd like some proper number behind it because I'm just that pedantic with Falchion wielders

I agree, so @everyone let's get some numbers on Marth's Nair