Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[meanscreen]

Mewtwo appears unchanged, unfortunately.

I don't think that's true. When going on the 3DS DLC Menu, it says there's an update for previously installed content. Mewtwo was the only DLC I had at the time, so he must have been changed somehow.

 

[energyman2289]

Are you sure your Shulk?

Yes, I'm really feeling it. XD

 

[sonnytapman]

Did Ganondorf's Dark Fists get nerfed? It couldn't kill Mario at 67% when I've seen it kill at 35%. May have been rage though.

 

[Gidy]

So people on Nakat's stream are saying Falcon's Dthrow got nerfed including Acid. More KB?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Did Ganondorf's Dark Fists get nerfed? It couldn't kill Mario at 67% when I've seen it kill at 35%. May have been rage though.

Could have also been a stage with smaller blast zones. Doesn't seem changed to me.

 

[S_B]

Many other characters were buffed so I don't know how Ike will end up, but I don't think he gets hard countered by anyone anymore at least.

And that's really all we can hope for for any character.

Like I said, I don't play Ike, but the few tournaments I watched Ike players compete in way back a few months after launch were just depressing. Like you said, even with perfect spacing, Ike gets shut down by any character that can bait out anything unsafe (which was most everything, really) and run in in time for a punish. The extreme lag on his moves just never made sense.

As I've said before in another topic: Ike gets results. HOWEVER: all of the top level Ikes live in places that don't stream, rarely if ever record footage at all, and don't post results officially.

Fair enough. I just hadn't seen ANY Ike representation in so long that I assumed he was either only liked in Japan (like Pacman seems to be, at least from the results I see) or no one was taking him to tournaments.

I do, of course, hope that we'll start seeing Ikes in some major tourneys now. I love watching Ikes, just thought there weren't any around to see.

And with that, we can get back to the topic of changes.

Did Ganondorf's Dark Fists get nerfed? It couldn't kill Mario at 67% when I've seen it kill at 35%. May have been rage though.

Dorf boards are reporting no changes thus far (last I checked).

A few people are swearing that U-air has a bigger hitbox but that's not been confirmed.

 

[Luigi player]

It definitely scales with damage since it kills at 999%. As far as better/worse combo potential, I have no idea.

It always hit the opponent further the higher his % were, that's why you can do sh fair at low % and fulljump fair / downB / etc at higher %. Not sure if it scales even more now (doesn't seem like it), but it always scaled.


Also about the "Up Throw Knock back increased significantly (stronger than Mewtwo ?)" for Charizard...

It's not stronger than Mewtwos if you count in DI, since Mewtwos goes straight up which means DI helps less against it. I actually tested this in trainingmode and Mewtwo KOd Roy on Omega BF at 139 %, while Charizard KOs him at 163 %, which is a pretty big difference.

 

[sonnytapman]

Okay, Skulk is no change. Lucario has jabs that actually combo into eachother well. Puff is unchanged. Samus' U-Smash links into itself easier. That's what I'm aware of in terms of my mains. In terms of pockets, we have the Charizard and Ike buffs. I guess I got lucky with changes this time.

EDIT: Did Samus D throw always fire straight up? I remember it launching at a more forward angle.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Anything on Ganon?

 

[Firefoxx]

So people on Nakat's stream are saying Falcon's Dthrow got nerfed including Acid. More KB?

I can get dthrow -> uair to combo on Sheik at 120% so I highly doubt this is true

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I can guarantee that Little Mac has more lag after his USmash. I can feel the difference.

That's a charming assertion, but I'm afraid Mac's Usmash was always this laggy.

I agree, so @everyone let's get some numbers on Marth's Nair

I made a visual representation of Marth's Nair landlag before the patch. I need somebody with a patched wii u to do the same so we can compare.

Note that the site incorrectly counted the frames, and is suggesting the landing lag is 14 frames. I counted 15 when I finished the recording.

 

[Vipermoon]

That's a charming assertion, but I'm afraid Mac's Usmash was always this laggy.



I made a visual representation of Marth's Nair landlag before the patch. I need somebody with a patched wii u to do the same so we can compare.

Note that the site incorrectly counted the frames, and is suggesting the landing lag is 14 frames. I counted 15 when I finished the recording.

Yeah it was definitely 15 before the patch, even in the 3DS days. I'm sure multiple people can vouch for that.

 

[SapphSabre777]

@ Shaya Just wanted to let you know that Kirby's "Forward Smash Up angled damage reduced 13% → 12%" refers to its sourspot. Mind making those changes? Something like:

• Forward Smash Up angled sourspot damage reduced 13% → 12%

 

[Vipermoon]

So I can't for the life of me get that momentum issue to happen using aerials with a Smash-C stick. I use Attack-stick usually but decided to try to replicate the momentum problem. It gave me control of my momentum every time using Smash-stick. I tried it spamming Dr Mario's Bair

Game engine patch change?

 

[Firefoxx]

im no longer sure whoops

 

[Illuminose]

I've tested my 1.0.7 3DS and 1.0.8 Wii U side by side 10 times now, and there's no difference in Sheik's needle end lag. It's placebo.

Also, people have been talking about potential forward air changes...I'm almost 100% positive they don't exist. I can still confirm fthrow -> fair -> fair -> regrab -> fthrow -> bouncing fish, fair strings seem the same, and fair -> bouncing fish still connects just fine. There's no damage difference either. The move is still as good as ever.

 

[TriTails]

It seems they decided to mostly drop the buffs and throw the nerf to 'well-known' top tier. I guess they still don't believe Sheik is crazy gud.

Though, they buffed Rosa, even though she is a known top tier RIGHT on like day 1 ( is crying). Yeah, small buff, but still...

Anyhoo, I'll need to test Luigi's landing lag and other stuffs, but I have a gut feeling they are unchanged. Still thinking the SDI multiplier on Cyclone was increased tho (If so, well, dang).

 

[RayNoire]

I don't think that's true. When going on the 3DS DLC Menu, it says there's an update for previously installed content. Mewtwo was the only DLC I had at the time, so he must have been changed somehow.

If there is any change, it hasn't been found yet. Since they didn't fix Mewtwo's down smash, I doubt he was touched at all.

 

[thehard]

Can we get a confirm/deny on Falcon's d-throw having more knockback? Acid says "If they DI away from down throw no follow ups past 15%". Then we have ESAM and ZeRo tweeting out that Sheik and Luigi were nerfed, jeez...

Smash patch change threads be like:

 

[Luigi player]

So I can't for the life of me get that momentum issue to happen using aerials with a Smash-C stick. I use Attack-stick usually but decided to try to replicate the momentum problem. It gave me control of my momentum every time using Smash-stick. I tried it spamming Dr Mario's Bair

Game engine patch change?

You still lose control if you hold the stick into a direction.

I've always played with Cstick on Smash and I just tap it shortly so I don't lose control (though still a few frames sadly), so that's normal.

Almost got me excited there.

 

[Lavani]

Can we get a confirm/deny on Falcon's d-throw having more knockback? Acid says "If they DI away from down throw no follow ups past 15%". Then we have ESAM and ZeRo tweeting out that Sheik and Luigi were nerfed, jeez...

Smash patch change threads be like:

I'm not seeing any difference between 1.0.0 and 1.0.8 dthrow, testing it at 0% and 90% on .

EDIT: Sheik needles are also definitely unchanged from 1.0.4's initial nerf.

 

[lijero13ss]

Can we get a confirm/deny on Falcon's d-throw having more knockback? Acid says "If they DI away from down throw no follow ups past 15%". Then we have ESAM and ZeRo tweeting out that Sheik and Luigi were nerfed, jeez...

Smash patch change threads be like:

Dthrow def seems to have more knockback

Luigi is unchanged other than cyclone you have to mash a bit less for it to kill from dthrow

 

[Shaya]

Can we get a confirm/deny on Falcon's d-throw having more knockback? Acid says "If they DI away from down throw no follow ups past 15%". Then we have ESAM and ZeRo tweeting out that Sheik and Luigi were nerfed, jeez...

Smash patch change threads be like:

Good thing you can trust ME/official thread OPs, right?
I think people just really want Sheik nerfs to exist... which is fine seeing as she is seemingly the most powerful character (but this took at least a month+ to solidify with the diddy to sheik transitions being pretty rocky), but I guess Diddy outnumbering Sheik like 5:1 prior to the last patch and that USA vs Japan thing Sakurai watched post-patch (and commented on) just represents the development cycle taking weeks/months rather than being incidental.

I think it's safe to say that we'll be getting a balance patch for every character release from now on. And we're bound to get at least 1 more character.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Disregard any claims of Sonic changes. The character was not touched.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

You still lose control if you hold the stick into a direction.

I've always played with Cstick on Smash and I just tap it shortly so I don't lose control (though still a few frames sadly), so that's normal.

Almost got me excited there.

Yeah, you definitely still move slightly left/right if you hold the smash stick when jumping. What I did to test it was went on Big Battlefield on training, and then walked Dedede over to the right edge of the very top platform until he starts teetering over the edge. Do a full hop and hold the stick hard right and he will jump and drop in between the two right-most platforms.

When doing this with the smash c-stick, he'll usually land at the right edge of the platform closest to him when he jumps and back airs. With the tilt c-stick, he should still pass through the middle of those platforms.

I still use Smash anyways simply because it's what I'm used to, although now that I've been playing mostly Smash 4 it may be beneficial for me to switch over.

Speaking of Dedede, as far as I can tell he has no changes. Anything I've personally felt so far has likely been placebo, though I'll compare with the 3DS version later that I haven't updated to check out a couple of things. Not kill percents, of course, but speed related stuff.

 

[Luigi player]

Disregard any claims of Sonic changes. The character was not touched.

Yikarur tested with two Smash3DS versions (pre1.08 and 1.08) and confirmed his upsmash got a little weaker.

 

[JayWon]

Palutena's U-tilt also has received some vacuum effect.
http://smashboards.com/threads/1-0-...ht-is-still-works.406176/page-2#post-19426919

 

[TriTails]

What a wise quote. I hope you lend me thy allowance to edit this.

Disregard any claims of Luigi's D-throw changes. The thing was not touched, and even if it is, it is insignificant.

 

[Metal Fish]

Did Samus D throw always fire straight up? I remember it launching at a more forward angle.

i think it is DI dependent

 

[Ultinarok]

Marth DOES appear to have slightly less landing lag on at least nair. Placebo can run wild though. I played Marth a lot tonight and did very well, may just have been a good night but he felt better somehow...perhaps it was because I switched between him, Ike and Roy and was in full FE mode too.

Good to see Marcina and Ike got some buffs in general either way. Wouldn't mind finding out if they do in fact have a couple more we haven't found.

 

[Saviorr]

Falco actually has a decent aerial game now. Forward air and Up air have less startup and ending lag.
Nair can combo better. Up throw to nair is a reliable combo and can follow up into another aerial.

His up throw can kill at high percents and seems to more easily lead to combos.
Did up throw get buffed?
Up throw seems much more useful now. It might just feel buffed because his aerials got buffed.

 

[jaimex2]

Disregard any claims of Sonic changes. The character was not touched.

Please post data

I did identical tests before and after updating

There is confirmation multiple times in this thread of at least the up-smash being weakened.

 

[Fuerzo]

Goddamn, is it so hard for Nintendo to just give us patch notes?

 

[Vipermoon]

@ Shaya I have big news with Marth. One of my biggest complaints was the Dolphin Slash hitbox not matching the animation.

Back in 1.0.7 I went to Smashville and used the white dots that span the entire length of the stage (the ones at the 3D edge of the stage) to measure Marth's range in his entire moveset. Up B's (with the first dot being "0", then 1, 2...) max range used to be at the end of 2 (meaning the the tip of Marth's right foot was about 90% through the white dot #2). DS was not angle in any way.

There are rules though:
- You must be on the left side of the stage. You can see Marth a lot better when he faces left. Another reason is the dots are not consistently drawn, so the dots on the other side of Smashville cannot be used to compare to the left dots. Omega Smashville especially: FD is longer than SV and they did a horrible job of extending it on the right side as far as drawing new dots go.
- Marth cannot be in any animation except his normal standing animation (you and the CPU Marth). So no moving hair out of your eyes or sighing/deep breathing. All that stuff changes his hurtbox.
- You must have the CPU set to control and roll dodge into the ledge facing human Marth.

Attached is exactly where I was standing. After taking this photo, my Dolphin Slash hit CPU Marth.

I have a picture from exactly where I was standing when the 1.0.8 DS hit but I just found out that Smashboards doesn't photo host...Edit: Nevermind, you can, thanks Shaya. If someone can find me an easy way of posting my image that is now saved to my computer I'll do it.
But anyway, the tip of Marth's right foot is right in between dots 2 and 3 in 1.0.8. Precisely, it was a few HD pixels closer to the dot #2. You guys can try this yourself using the rules. Hopefully we can get someone with an unpatched Wii U.

Even watching the animation, pre-patch DS used to completely go through CPU Marth's face and shoulder. Now it almost doesn't have animation issues. If the hitbox was altered to Marth being able to hit 3/4ths of the way to dot 3 it would have been awesome.

Yes, all of this stuff is important because if Marth were to Dolphin Slash out of shield, it will whiff a lot and Marth will get killed because in Smash 4 the shield push-back often outranged DS.

If anyone is wondering, in Brawl the dots are exactly the same and Brawl Marth reaches as far as the middle of 3. That animation perfectly matched. Fsmash, DS, and grab were the only moves where Brawl Marth reaches further. Most of their movesets reach exactly the same except things like Nair and Dancing Blade where Smash 4 reaches further. Off topic, I know.

Now I wonder when they will change grab to where Marth's entire hand going through someone will actually grab. Funny, because he still has better than average grab range. That long arm lol.

 

[TriTails]

Goddamn, is it so hard for Nintendo to just give us patch notes?

Even if they did, we'd still has to datamine to know the numbers (I seriously doubt they'd post something like 'Luigi's FJP has been increased in base knockback from 40 to 9000 (lol)'.

But yeah, general knowledge on where to start would be great.

 

[Jigglymaster]

There is some placebo going around on twitter stating that Brawler's Helicopter Kick kills 15% earlier. Can we get a confirmation or de-confirmation on this? I remember seeing no such thing, it felt exactly the same as before as well as doing the same damage as before.

 

[Shaya]

Vipermoon, smashboards does let you add images to a post after the fact if you go into more options.

Alternatively, imgur.com

 

[Vipermoon]

Vipermoon, smashboards does let you add images to a post after the fact if you go into more options.

Alternatively, imgur.com

Thanks Shaya, I didn't know about that. I uploaded the image to the post.

 

[Shaya]

So what you're saying is, is that Dolphin Slash hitboxes are bigger? Or there's more angling now?
I'm a bit confused with what you're implicating.

 

[Vipermoon]

So what you're saying is, is that Dolphin Slash hitboxes are bigger? Or there's more angling now?
I'm a bit confused with what you're implicating.

Bigger hitboxes, to better match animation. 11% hitboxes that is. Do you get what I mean about the dots and such?