Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Quickhero]

@ S_B Ike's been great since 1.04 imo, he's definitely not slow since he has aerials that can punish Sonic's spin dash of all things and his combo game was/is great. I just wish he was actually used in tournaments more.

Honestly if Ike is a rarely seen character in this patch even after unnecessary buffs I will be the most confused man alive.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I'll second this.

And it's unusual, considering that Sakurai has been insisting that he doesn't care about 1 on 1 balance (or at least that it's not a priority) and yet characters are getting buffed to make them better in 1v1 scenarios. He also said something about 1.0.6 being the last big balance patch which he clearly didn't stick to.

Bowser's u-tilt was a nice buff, giving him an option to handle aerials without committing to an u-smash and it now covers him in the front. 'Zard's u-throw is now a kill throw, which he badly, BADLY needed.

For a guy who claims to not care about 1v1 balance, Sakurai sure keeps working to balance a great deal...

I think that's a misinterpretation. He has made claims that he cares about mid-level balance, at a level where most competent players will arrive. He uses Kirby's down-B as an example of a move that is really good at low-level play and really bad at high-level play. So he tries to find a balance somewhere in between.

What it means, though is since Sheik probably isn't a threat at low or even mid-level play, she isn't seen as needing any changes.

 

[S_B]

@ S_B Ike's been great since 1.04 imo, he's definitely not slow since he has aerials that can punish Sonic's spin dash of all things and his combo game was/is great. I just wish he was actually used in tournaments more.

Honestly if Ike is a rarely seen character in this patch even after unnecessary buffs I will be the most confused man alive.

I dunno. The Ike boards definitely feel like it was needed...

What it means, though is since Sheik probably isn't a threat at low or even mid-level play, she isn't seen as needing any changes.

That's a disturbing thought...

I think this round of Diddy nerfs were unnecessary, and even at mid-level play, Shiek can be pretty damn dangerous...

 

[draquaza]

charizards jabs were buffed they use to do 9% but now does 12% so it was buffed by 3% i tested this using the old patch on the 3ds version which still has 1.0.7 so i can confirm its true

 

[Kiing07]

Diddy got a buff with his jabs. The hits after the first come out significantly faster & actually combo now

 

[Stigmata]

Why do they keep nerfing characters? I would rather see buffs of weaker charcaters to be honest. It would make the competitive scene more interesting

You would love Brawl Minus

 

[Fatmanonice]

@ S_B Ike's been great since 1.04 imo, he's definitely not slow since he has aerials that can punish Sonic's spin dash of all things and his combo game was/is great. I just wish he was actually used in tournaments more.

Honestly if Ike is a rarely seen character in this patch even after unnecessary buffs I will be the most confused man alive.

I disagree. Ike has issues but these buffs could turn things around. Out of the box, a lot of Ike's attacks were very easy to punish, his jab wasn't that useful (it was pretty much his best move in Brawl), he had a miserable time stringing attacks together, a very easy to manipulate recovery, had few answers to being juggled, and he didn't have the "WTF?! THAT KILLED AT 50%?!?" kill power he had in Brawl. With his continued buffs, however, his jab's has largely regained it's usefulness, he has fantastic range without the teeth grinding ending/landing lag, he can string attacks together much easier, and his grab set ups are much easier to use. Ike's on his way to being a solid mid tier but he's going to a lot more omph if he ever hopes to get past that.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Deconfirming changes on staleness rates being changed. Used my 1.0.7 3DS copy and 1.0.8 Wii U, and used 10 U-Tilts on Fox with Kirby, then 10 more after to study the decay. Both match up to the same %s (36% for 10 when fresh, 26% for the 10 U-Tilts after).

 

[meanscreen]

Can someone confirm if Flare Blitz has more knockback? I killed a Shulk centerstage with no rage around 80% with it and I'm not sure if that was possible earlier.

EDIT: Since I know this will be asked, no, Shulk was not in any Monado Art modes at the time.

 

[Bjurrse]

Has Samus been buffed? just killed a pikachu on top platform of dreamland at 57% with Oos up-b, did not even have rage. (not a usual Samus player, I knew it was a kill move before, but don´t know the strenght)

 

[draquaza]

charizards jabs were buffed they use to do 9% but now does 12% so it was buffed by 3% i tested this using the old patch on the 3ds version which still has 1.0.7 so i can confirm its true

 

[Thinkaman]

charizards jabs were buffed they use to do 9% but now does 12% so it was buffed by 3% i tested this using the old patch on the 3ds version which still has 1.0.7 so i can confirm its true

Charizard Jab did 3+4+5=12% in all previous patches.

 

[Mega-Ivysaur]

Has Samus been buffed? just killed a pikachu on top platform of dreamland at 57% with Oos up-b, did not even have rage. (not a usual Samus player, I knew it was a kill move before, but don´t know the strenght)

Yes it was. Up Smash kills much more earlier now.

 

[BJN39]

I would like to reiterate @ Shaya that Zelda's Usmash's BKB was increased if you wanted to be more specific--and was likely sole the cause of its improved KO ability. When tested side by side Mario was launched slightly, but noticeably higher than before at 0%.

I'm not sure as to whether the growth was actually improved as well, but just improving one of the stats would definitely have a drastic effect on the move. But until the data dump I can only confirm the BKB increase.

 

[san.]

I disagree. Ike has issues but these buffs could turn things around. Out of the box, a lot of Ike's attacks were very easy to punish, his jab wasn't that useful (it was pretty much his best move in Brawl), he had a miserable time stringing attacks together, a very easy to manipulate recovery, had few answers to being juggled, and he didn't have the "WTF?! THAT KILLED AT 50%?!?" kill power he had in Brawl. With his continued buffs, however, his jab's has largely regained it's usefulness, he has fantastic range without the teeth grinding ending/landing lag, he can string attacks together much easier, and his grab set ups are much easier to use. Ike's on his way to being a solid mid tier but he's going to a lot more omph if he ever hopes to get past that.

I think he received a lot of buffs he didn't need, but quite a few that were essential, such as jab, dash attack, quick draw startup, and fair's hitbox adjustment. Ftilt's speed increase, nair's landing lag decrease, and the extent of fair's change was definitely a nice surprise and are also good buffs. I still think his uair and uncharged specials need to be more powerful and that's pretty much it. Pretty much all of the buffs really helped his mid-range zoning that he lost from Brawl.

Nair's landing lag has been reduced from 16->13 (same landing lag as Diddy's nair if that didn't change). 13 frames was the landing lag it had from Brawl.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Does anyone know how @Dantarion gets his data? He seems too busy to upkeep his work, and I'm willing to give it a go. I, however, have little knowledge on this topic and could use help getting it off the ground. Anyone with any information on this process, please PM me and I'll take the project as far as I can.

 

[S_B]

I think Ike needed all the help he could get, personally.

If he actually verges into being OP, I'm sure he'd get nerfed back down again, but I don't think he's in any danger of reaching that point, even with these buffs.

 

[David Viran]

Can anybody do a side by side comparison of zss's bair killing at the ledge?

 

[Mega-Ivysaur]

Fire Blitz now kills 10% earlier.

Test rules:

- Battlefield Omega
- Shulk as dummy (no arts)
- Training mode
- Opponent starts at his training start position (where he stands after you press reset)

On 1.07, Charizard KOs Shulk when Shulk had at least 92 Damage.

In 1.08, Charizard now KO Shulk when he has 82 damage.

I did this test on WIiU (1.08) and 3DS (1.07). If the BF blastzones or respaw position are different, well, then this is useless. If not, Side B was indeed Buffed.

 

[S_B]

Fire Blitz now kills 10% earlier.

Test rules:

- Battlefield Omega
- Shulk as dummy (no arts)
- Training mode
- Opponent starts at his training start position (where he stands after you press reset)

On 1.07, Charizard KOs Shulk when Shulk had at least 92 Damage.

In 1.08, Charizard now KO Shulk when he has 82 damage.

I did this test on WIiU (1.08) and 3DS (1.07). If the BF blastzones or respaw position are different, well, then this is useless. If not, Side B was indeed Buffed.

Pretty sure the BF blastzones are different between 3DS and WiiU, so yeah... :\

Good of you to try, though.

 

[BJN39]

Fire Blitz now kills 10% earlier.

Test rules:

- Battlefield Omega
- Shulk as dummy (no arts)
- Training mode
- Opponent starts at his training start position (where he stands after you press reset)

On 1.07, Charizard KOs Shulk when Shulk had at least 92 Damage.

In 1.08, Charizard now KO Shulk when he has 82 damage.

I did this test on WIiU (1.08) and 3DS (1.07). If the BF blastzones or respaw position are different, well, then this is useless. If not, Side B was indeed Buffed.

3DS has larger/farther blastzones, sorry.

'd

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ike has a lot of the same problems as Ganondorf, predictable recovery, has a hard time approaching characters with reliable projectiles, and gets bounced around like a ball of yarn against speedy characters.On the topic of Ganondorf, I feel as there is a consensus that Ganondorf is mid to lower mid tier and it kind of makes me wonder if Sakurai's main goal is to make characters decent instead of really good. As mentioned earlier, characters like have some issues but nobody views them as absolutely terrible, unlike a good number of the characters I posted earlier. People agree that they could be better but they've largely been left untouched. Once characters hit this middle ground, like , Sakurai seems to back away from them and it makes me wonder if Sakurai's main goal is to drag people more to the middle than the top. Granted, that's what "balancing" ultimately means but could we eventually wind up with a game where most of the cast is just "so-so?"

 

[Mega-Ivysaur]

That sucks.

Anyway, Charizard Up Throw kills Shulk on BF at 129%

Mewtwo Up Throw kills Shulk at 137%

Tested both on WiiU, no mistake this time. Charizard is the Up Throw king now.

Pretty sure the BF blastzones are different between 3DS and WiiU, so yeah... :\

Good of you to try, though.

Even on Omega form? Or at least the Final Destination stage itself? :/

 

[draquaza]

Charizard Jab did 3+4+5=12% in all previous patches.

yeah you right sorry bout that i forgot the tip of the wing does less damage it comes out as 9 i feel bad for not remembering that as a zard main. but can you double check on one more thing for me? make sure im not missing anything dont want it be placebo affect but i think fly knock back increased im on fd and on 1.0.7 shiek gets killed by fly on fd at 97% with zard also in 97% but on 1.0.8 it kills much earlier with zard and both shiek at 86%

 

[LimitCrown]

Did anyone test the hitboxes for throws like Meta Knight's up throw Charizard's up throw, and Lucario's up throw? Has the knockback of the other hitboxes (the collision hitboxes for Meta Knight and Charizard's up throw and the first hitbox of Lucario's up throw) changed?

 

[draquaza]

Pretty sure the BF blastzones are different between 3DS and WiiU, so yeah... :\

Good of you to try, though.

alright thanks lol sakurai over here telling us the games are pretty much the same that man lying XD

 

[Anaky]

Could you please send footage? I personally noticed no difference when doing n-air, and I'm certain I got my shield up at the exact same time between v1.07 and v1.08.

Sorry I can't do anything until Thursday at least, plus I have nothing to record with except my phone, which will be bad quality, I promise you it's quicker, i noticed it straight away and also tested it on the 3DS as well, just tested it again as well.

All I can give you is my word, the Marth boards should notice this soon.

 

[mvkb12]

I think:
Jiggs:
NAIR has higher knock back and has a damage output of 11 instead of 10 at the beginning

 

[ZeoLightning]

Pac-Man's Hydrant Platform tech was removed

 

[Ffamran]

Falcos nair has a pulling windbox below him it seems.

Around 1:10
And nair always sends opponent forwards, so probably hitbox alteration

It's probably not a windbox, but the game freaking out. So, Falco's Nair links better because the "weak" hits, the hits before the last hit, have a new hit angle: autolinks. Autolinks basically are the reason why Zelda's Nair, Falco's Fair, Fox's Fair, Ike's Aether Ragnell spinning part, and a bunch more moves connect so well. They make it so that the move cause the opponent to follow the attacker or whatever is hitting them. The issue I think here is how Falco functions; Falco is the highest jumper which with an autolink and him rising up like that, the game's probably freaking out trying to connect his Nair with how fast and high he's going up. In contrast, Zelda's jump is lower than Falco, but if she had the same jump as Falco, her Nair could probably freak out like his. I don't know what you could do with the windbox effect in a practical situation, but even if it's a rare thing, it probably will get patched so that Falco's Nair functions with autolink angles and therefore connecting better, but not causing freakouts like this.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I think:
Jiggs:
NAIR has higher knock back and has a damage output of 11 instead of 10 at the beginning

Sweet Nair always dealt 11 damage.

 

[bc1910]

3DS has larger blastzones, so that's sadly useless. We need to test the same version to see if Flare Blitz was changed. We should put a disclaimer in the next patch thread like "don't compare Wii U and 3DS versions because the blastzones are different".

I don't think Ike necessarily needed all those buffs (some were important, some he could have lived without) but they make him more solid, and it's not like he's broken, so I'm perfectly happy for him to have been buffed anyway.

Diddy's throw changes need to be added to the OP. Uthrow damage 8% -> 5%, knockback seems the same. Dthrow damage 6% -> 7%, knockback increased, acts as a nerf because it no longer combos at all at high percents.

 

[TurdyBird]

Can anyone check for Robin changes? I just used Nosferatu and felt like the range was further than usual... If anyone here has played a lot of Robin please check this for me.

 

[Zeth444]

Does anyone know how @Dantarion gets his data? He seems too busy to upkeep his work, and I'm willing to give it a go. I, however, have little knowledge on this topic and could use help getting it off the ground. Anyone with any information on this process, please PM me and I'll take the project as far as I can.

The method I know is:
Record all moves of a character into your PC.
Use a PC program to slow down The video, moving frame by frame.
Count The frames.
Its a very exaustive process.
Dont try recording with a camera. Use a proper program (pr Maybe a camera is fine, never tryed myself, saw it on an old Melee tread)

 

[LancerStaff]

Ike has a lot of the same problems as Ganondorf, predictable recovery, has a hard time approaching characters with reliable projectiles, and gets bounced around like a ball of yarn against speedy characters.On the topic of Ganondorf, I feel as there is a consensus that Ganondorf is mid to lower mid tier and it kind of makes me wonder if Sakurai's main goal is to make characters decent instead of really good. As mentioned earlier, characters like have some issues but nobody views them as absolutely terrible, unlike a good number of the characters I posted earlier. People agree that they could be better but they've largely been left untouched. Once characters hit this middle ground, like , Sakurai seems to back away from them and it makes me wonder if Sakurai's main goal is to drag people more to the middle than the top. Granted, that's what "balancing" ultimately means but could we eventually wind up with a game where most of the cast is just "so-so?"

All of those characters you mentioned are thought of better in Japan. All but Jr. are C tier and above, and Pit's all the way in B if I remember correctly.

Speaking of which, I just finished testing both Pits. No changes in the default moveset whatsoever.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

DK's ftilt no longer whiffs at point blank range. I can't produce evidence for this but it should be easy enough for somebody to confirm this. Fsmash still whiffs btw and DK will also still die if he hits a shield with his punch next to the ledge.

I confirm that the knockback of G&W's dtilt has been increased. It's the only change I could find in his standard moves though.

Wario and Fox are also unchanged.

 

[Ultinarok]

Can confirm Shulk is unchanged still. Unless some obscure change comes up, his frame and damage data is identical.

Has G&W's bair always done 9%? I swear before that it did 8%.

 

[DavemanCozy]

seconding Gheb, no changes I saw on Fox and Wario.

Will start looking into the patch more once I'm off my shift coming up.

All of those characters you mentioned are thought of better in Japan. All but Jr. are C tier and above, and Pit's all the way in B if I remember correctly.

Last Japan tier list had Jr. at C tier, bottom of C with Little Mac

 

[Starcutter]

Up air auto cancels
Fair auto cancel
Dair less landing lag
Bair less landing lag
Nair less landing lag

 

[Lavani]

DK's ftilt no longer whiffs at point blank range. I can't produce evidence for this but it should be easy enough for somebody to confirm this.

Deconfirming, it looks unchanged.