Lucas General Discussion

[Hylian]

he did the 100% safe thing over and over, which required me to make a hard read to punish. every time I touched him was a prediction, and he made zero mental effort to win >.> to be fair, I did sd a few times, but it was still moronic that he was being rewarded for that type of play. and no, he didn't just divekick into me a million times. If i stayed out of range of the angled one, he would just safely land, fullhop again, and keep camping. not much i could do about that without taking stupid risks

Sounds like you got out-played homie. No tactic is 100% safe in this game. First step to being the best = It's always your fault. Fix it. (This could include changing character LOL)

 

[Oracle]

uh thats not outplayed, i got gimmicked...lol. obviously there were ways i could have won if I had somehow hard read his every movement or perfectly baited him into jumping into a bunch of upsmashes or w/e. nothing is 100% safe but when your options to punish pretty much come down to "know exactly when and where hes going to attack and punish in a 10 frame window" thats not a very even matchup lol.

even 'unwinnable' matchups are possible to win if you can outsmart your opponent enough. it was just that I had never played against the character before and wanted to test myself with a bad matchup. i knew i probably could have smashed him with rob but in a six man tournamet for $15 i don't think that would have been the most productive use of my time.

ALSO COME TO LOW TIER CITY JESUS YOU"RE LIKE RIGHT THERE

@mad I still won, it was round robin and he was my only loss, and his record was kind of bad (which is why i was so mad I lost to him >.>)

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Pfft, playing Lucas and bringing up getting gimmicked

 

[Hylian]

uh thats not outplayed, i got gimmicked...lol. obviously there were ways i could have won if I had somehow hard read his every movement or perfectly baited him into jumping into a bunch of upsmashes or w/e. nothing is 100% safe but when your options to punish pretty much come down to "know exactly when and where hes going to attack and punish in a 10 frame window" thats not a very even matchup lol.

even 'unwinnable' matchups are possible to win if you can outsmart your opponent enough. it was just that I had never played against the character before and wanted to test myself with a bad matchup. i knew i probably could have smashed him with rob but in a six man tournamet for $15 i don't think that would have been the most productive use of my time.

ALSO COME TO LOW TIER CITY JESUS YOU"RE LIKE RIGHT THERE

@mad I still won, it was round robin and he was my only loss, and his record was kind of bad (which is why i was so mad I lost to him >.>)

I'm like 10 hours away, that is not "Right there" >_> lol. I will ask my buddy if he wants to drive down there though

 

[Oracle]

its close enough to have an excuse to go! there are 43 preregistered people, which is 3 or 4 away from being the biggest pm tournament since FC legacy!

 

[Zwarm]

I've found doing DJC PKF is easier if you fullhop the initial jump

Not exactly the fastest, but I find myself not getting the projectile out as easily with a short hop

Also I really can't get down the timing for magnet cancel, it's really bringing down my Lucas

 

[Kally Wally]

From all this talk of DJC PKF being difficult, I've determined that Z must be the best jump button, because that's what I use and it's basically free.

I've always known this, of course, but it's nice to have confirmation.

 

[a vehicle]

I LOVE 2.6 Lucas, still getting used to all his changes.
I'm having lots of issues doing mid-air magnets turnarounds, can't ever get the timing right, why is this?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Since it was changed to start 1 frame sooner, the ability to B-reverse it is gone, so it'll feel a lot tighter to make happen.

Something like that, there's a post about it on the previous page or so.

 

[Burnsy]

I kinda hope that gets changed back in the next version. The 1 frame is nice but the added mobility option seems worth it to me. Either way though it doesn't matter all that much.

 

[a vehicle]

I read the last 3 pages and no one explained why it got changed, or how it affects the game.
Anyways, it does matter to me a lot that i can't do it anymore because I use it a LOT while recovering to turn-around dodge tether.
Imagine if sheik had her ability to turn around using neutral-b removed, or Marth's Bair didn't turn you around anymore, or Mario's cape, or spacee's shines, or (god forbid) jigg's jump.
It can't possibly be 1 frame... I used to do it everytime and now I just can't get myself to do it, ever.
How is Lucas supposed to turn in the air now?

PS. I didn't know neutral-B had a hitbox to it now, it's also useful for combos? I HAVE to test this (any tips?)

 

[Shell]

Magnet B-reversal will likely be fixed in a patch or update. However, unless I am mistaken you can still turn around using magnet in the air the old fashioned way by pressing back first, instead of after you start the move.

 

[Burnsy]

I can confirm that turning around with magnet in the way that Shell described still works fine.

 

[Malart]

Also, I found a new way to DJC that I actually find easier than even SHFFling. With all default controls, hit up on the control stick just before hitting anywhere but up on the c-stick and you will buffer a double jump out of jump start. In 2.5, this would cause an automatic short hop. Immediately input the aerial you want after the c stick, and voila, easy DJC. This is best with directional aerials, since you can just keep your thumb on the c stick and immediately input the aerial rather than move to a different button.

Does the PMBR know if this is intentional, or if people shouldn't bother getting used to doing his DJC aerials this way? Tried it out a bit and I think with a bit of practice it could be a completely amazing way to do it, but I don't wanna do it if it's just a weird side-effect of a different change.

Also I posted this next thing as a bug report, then felt like an idiot when I finally pulled it off once on 1/4 speed. Is Lucas's powershield reflect just retardedly difficult, or is it just me? I can powershield projectiles from Falco, Mario, and Pika no problem with the entire rest of the cast, but I spent well over an hour trying to do nothing but that with Lucas, and got nothing, besides that one at 1/4 speed and one freak one at full speed. But I switch to literally anyone else, and I usually get it first try. I can even have a reflecting battle with CPU Falco's shine oftentimes. At first I thought it was broken with him, but maybe the window is really really tight for some reason. It could be that he's a slidey character, so the timing changes a bit each time as I slide back from the others (practicing on a cpu to get it down as per Dr. PeePee's advice post in the Melee boards for practicing by oneself.)

 

[Burnsy]

Has anyone else figured out the taunt easter egg ?

 

[SpiderMad]

He puts on Sunglasses and uses his 2.5 Dair?

 

[Malart]

Has anyone else figured out the taunt easter egg ?

Hold u-taunt to have him fall down and look stoned for an extended period of time. he flashes when he gets up, so he may have slight invincibility, but timing something like that would be pretty difficult. Also you can roll out of it.

 

[Master WGS]

Oh yeah. Forgot that wasn't in 2.5...

 

[Shell]

Holding U-taunt puts you directly into the actual "tripped" action, the actions you have available to you are the same that you'd normally have if you tripped, say, by Diddy's Banana.

Fun Fact #1 - Lucas's U-taunt animation is exactly the same as the Trip Start, Trip Wait, and Trip Get-up animations fused together (this is what gave me the idea to pull this off rather cleanly / easily)

Fun Fact #2 - Some of you may remember that as Brawl was in Beta and people were playing it at E3 a few players noticed early tripping. They weren't quite sure what it was, and what you had to do to trigger it... it was probably still random then but who knows. Some competitive players hoped that by harnessing this "AT," which seemed to let you move with invulnerability (Trip Get-Up), it would become the new Wavedashing. This was initially termed "Ink Dropping." By adding this special Taunt which you can manually trigger, we've effectively added "Ink Dropping" to the game years later. Heh.

 

[SpiderMad]

to pull this off rather cleanly

I don't really remember you posting that much for 2.5, were you inactive for a while or something?

 

[Master WGS]

I'm looking forward to some ballsy mother effer to do that in tournament and use the invinc frames to pull something off.

Guess I'd better start practicing. Rage is only a couple weeks away.

Speaking of which, any other Lucases reppin' Rage?

 

[Malart]

Hey Shell, you have any idea about that c-stick buffered DJC thing up there? is it intentional? an accident that you plan to remove?

 

[SpiderMad]

I tried doing what he was talking about for that DJC trick, It wasn't working: so I def. need a video (use a normal camera, I'm sure you have a phone or something).

Yeah so people were mentioning his DJC side-b is different, it kind of feels harder

 

[Kally Wally]

I got it to happen, Mad. You need to use tap jump, and flick the c-stick during Lucas' jumpstart. If it worked for button jumps, it would be really cool and maybe even useful for me, but as it stands, that's not the case.

 

[TheGrooseofLegend]

So, I'm gonna eat my words from earlier. 2.6 bair is gahlike and dair is pretty useful. I also love that they took off the sweetspot on uair, it makes DJCing them so much better
I was having the same problems with DJCing PKF, but I was able to find a way to make it slightly easier (for me atleast): instead of pressing X/Y twice, I do tap jump for the double jump and immediately do PKF right after. The input is similar to the Magnetic Blast from UMVC3. Can someone try it and see if its any better?

 

[Malart]

I usually keep tap jump on for Lucas (and every DJC character) anyway, because it makes DJCing his aerials right next to the ground worlds easier rather than having to imitate a jackhammer with your finger. also if I ever decide to play melee, I won't find myself accidentally jumping in the air because I pushed too far up on the joystick, being used to it doing nothing. yeah this is really cool and I'd love to use it, but idk if it's gonna stay there, and I want to make DJC'd fairs + magnets an integral part of my game anyway. Don't want to rely on something that's might be gone in the next patch.

 

[EIiitti]

What do you guys mean by "B-reversing" the Magnet? Do you mean turning around in the air with it or doing some momentum switching as well? If it's the former, I don't get why you're having problems. Just angle the stick down and back to do the reverse Magnet. If you're talking about some momentum switching with the Magnet however, I never even knew that was possible.

 

[Malart]

What do you guys mean by "B-reversing" the Magnet? Do you mean turning around in the air with it or doing some momentum switching as well? If it's the former, I don't get why you're having problems. Just angle the stick down and back to do the reverse Magnet. If you're talking about some momentum switching with the Magnet however, I never even knew that was possible.

The input is very quick. The idea is to, after pressing b to do any of your specials with any character you very quickly tap in the other direction. You will turn around and preserve your old momentum in the new direction while doing the move in the other direction. look up videos about 'wavebouncing' that show the player's hands. SpiderMad has some up earlier in the thread I believe. (at least I think that it's him, he seems to post videos from that channel a lot, I'm not that familiar with him heh.) to try it out for yourself, go into practice mode, put the speed to 2/3 or 1/2 or whatever you find that works, and try the method listed above. I personally find it the easiest to do with a forward b consistently, but you can do it with any b move that doesn't completely negate your momentum. So Lucas's up-b is out (except perhaps if you run off the ledge with it, then you might be able to, because it preserves his momemntum when timed right), but his neutral, forward and (pre 2.6) down-b could all do it. you could do some really cool momentum tricks with it. here's a crappy quality playlist of me using that plus the trick with using PK Freeze to go underneath every stage that's go-underneathable. (it's most certainly not applicable in matches except as one hell of a risky mindgame/taunt lol) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYyfgzMSGqQ&list=PLjXLROPm38cVgdPD6j7Z2Bw88nZ9bzFoP
What I'm doing is running off the stage, doing a b-reversal (wavebounce, whatever) forward-b to turn around and start moving underneath the stage, then a specific amount of time after using the forward-b, I used down-b, and that gives me a huge momentum boost and allows me to reach the other ledge. You used to be able to wavebounce the down-b, after the forward-b, to suddenly turn around and shoot in the opposite direction you were travelling. You could use it to edgeguard then quickly grab the ledge without even using your double jump.
Btw the reason I keep saying "DONE!" is that I got really frustrated trying to get the Final Destination vids, and decided to do all the others first because they were simple by comparison. I ended up giving up on getting the FD in the same format as the others and did it in two separate vids lol.

 

[EIiitti]

The input is very quick. The idea is to, after pressing b to do any of your specials with any character you very quickly tap in the other direction. You will turn around and preserve your old momentum in the new direction while doing the move in the other direction. look up videos about 'wavebouncing' that show the player's hands. SpiderMad has some up earlier in the thread I believe. (at least I think that it's him, he seems to post videos from that channel a lot, I'm not that familiar with him heh.) to try it out for yourself, go into practice mode, put the speed to 2/3 or 1/2 or whatever you find that works, and try the method listed above. I personally find it the easiest to do with a forward b consistently, but you can do it with any b move that doesn't completely negate your momentum. So Lucas's up-b is out (except perhaps if you run off the ledge with it, then you might be able to, because it preserves his momemntum when timed right), but his neutral, forward and (pre 2.6) down-b could all do it. you could do some really cool momentum tricks with it. here's a crappy quality playlist of me using that plus the trick with using PK Freeze to go underneath every stage that's go-underneathable. (it's most certainly not applicable in matches except as one hell of a risky mindgame/taunt lol) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYyfgzMSGqQ&list=PLjXLROPm38cVgdPD6j7Z2Bw88nZ9bzFoP
What I'm doing is running off the stage, doing a b-reversal (wavebounce, whatever) forward-b to turn around and start moving underneath the stage, then a specific amount of time after using the forward-b, I used down-b, and that gives me a huge momentum boost and allows me to reach the other ledge. You used to be able to wavebounce the down-b, after the forward-b, to suddenly turn around and shoot in the opposite direction you were travelling. You could use it to edgeguard then quickly grab the ledge without even using your double jump.
Btw the reason I keep saying "DONE!" is that I got really frustrated trying to get the Final Destination vids, and decided to do all the others first because they were simple by comparison. I ended up giving up on getting the FD in the same format as the others and did it in two separate vids lol.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure you were talking about wavebouncing/b-reversing and not just turning around.
I personally take a 33% faster magnet over a cool-but-situational momentum trick. I agree that it could be useful after people mastered it, but in my view a jump from a frame 3 Magnet to a frame 2 Magnet is more beneficial in the long run for Lucas.

 

[Oracle]

I'm looking forward to some ballsy mother effer to do that in tournament and use the invinc frames to pull something off.

Guess I'd better start practicing. Rage is only a couple weeks away.

Speaking of which, any other Lucases reppin' Rage?

i'll be there. hopefully zhime goes too so we can win teams

 

[Spiffykins]

Faster magnet is cool and all but I'm really bummed that it still has that sourspot. Every time I hit with it, the part of me that wants to main Lucas dies.

 

[Burnsy]

Rage as in Nerd Rage? I should be going.

Faster magnet is cool and all but I'm really bummed that it still has that sourspot. Every time I hit with it, the part of me that wants to main Lucas dies.

Magnet has no sourspot. What are you talking about?

 

[Master WGS]

Yes, I did mean Nerd Rage.

If there are tvs and time (probably unlikely) I want to set up a Lucas-only Round Robin. I'd love to play all of you, as well as see how we all stack up to each other. I have literally never played another Lucas main.

 

[Burnsy]

Yes, I did mean Nerd Rage.

If there are tvs and time (probably unlikely) I want to set up a Lucas-only Round Robin. I'd love to play all of you, as well as see how we all stack up to each other. I have literally never played another Lucas main.

You should come to AZ; Luckass mains are a dime a dozen here.

 

[Oracle]

ill mess you all up with lucas

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

So at first I absolutely hated the return of Brawl dair and bair, but after fooling around in the lab a bit I absolutely love them. The dair change (which I thought I'd hate since I really liked his dair spike) is actually brilliant. Now he pretty much has a drillshine at low percents, which leads to all kinds of nasty follow ups, and his 2.6 bair feels a lot more practical than his old one (don't get me wrong- it was still really useful, but it was definitely more situational than his 2.6 bair).

 

[Burnsy]

So at first I absolutely hated the return of Brawl dair and bair, but after fooling around in the lab a bit I absolutely love them.

It seems like a pretty common reaction. I know I and several other AZ Lucas mains felt the same. We were worried about the change because it seemed like those aerials were already pretty good. We didn't really anticipate how much these changes could improve and add uses to them.

 

[Spiffykins]

Rage as in Nerd Rage? I should be going.


Magnet has no sourspot. What are you talking about?

What else are you supposed to call it? You've never nicked someone with it and have it just pop them up slightly?

 

[_R@bid_]

I tried doing what he was talking about for that DJC trick, It wasn't working: so I def. need a video (use a normal camera, I'm sure you have a phone or something).

Yeah so people were mentioning his DJC side-b is different, it kind of feels harder

Okay, I'll try to find something to record with. Guess this is finally the time for me to bother with a YouTube account.

 

[Kally Wally]

What else are you supposed to call it? You've never nicked someone with it and have it just pop them up slightly?

Sometimes, if I space it poorly, I'll hit with one of the initial attacks and not the release hit (the one that sends backward,) is that what you mean? A hit that just makes them flinch slightly?