Lucas General Discussion

[Burnsy]

I really don't like that burst move. It's worse than his incredibly situational wind KOs you could score once in a while

Are you being ****ing serious right now?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I really don't like that burst move. It's worse than his incredibly situational wind KOs

 

[Lukingordex]

I really don't like that burst move. It's worse than his incredibly situational wind KOs you could score once in a while with just hitting b after a full charge while opponents were off-stage in earlier demos.

I think you should give a better lock at it...
idk how many combos I already did with that move...

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Hi, I was just thinking if we could call the Magnet Jump Cancel to WaveDash to 2.6 Back Aerial Spike the "Raccoon Combo", or "Raccoombo", that would be great. A guy thought the name was funny, not the best justification........

 

[Burnsy]

I think you should give a better lock at it...
idk how many combos I already did with that move...

I'm not so sure about it's combo potential, actually. It'll be neat once we find out when it is better to use in combo but I think that his other moves are going to allow better flexibility in followups in most situations. Currently, I am more focused on developing the defensive side of the move as a combo breaker or for stuffing/protecting against strong hits.

Actually, I just thought of one potentially great use. If they are the type that uses attacks out of hitstun to escape combos (see: Luigi Nair), then the Burstcould be really good about acting as a followup while still covering that option.

I'd like to know what combos you guys have done with it though. Like I said, I haven't experimented much, but I do know that it can combo into itself at certain percents and DI.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Nevermind. I got killed a ****ton by my friends Mario, I/m gonna get ***** and beat no one.

Oh well.

Burst is just a defensive move/flashy ender, it works well off Dthrow

 

[Burnsy]

It probably has some efficient/smart combo applications, but they are going to be a lot more situational that your typical "combo move"

 

[Master WGS]

I've yet to escape a combo with it, is the thing. I'll admit I haven't really tried it OoS, so that might be something.

Vids for examples pl0x. Maybe I'm doing it at the wrong time.

 

[Lumenebrae]

So uh, this is probably the most niche-y thing ever with the least match viability, but the application of PKT as a "safety net" to block your own path of flight is interesting.

 

[SpiderMad]

Now, I get a buffered double jump with any character I try it with. Also, this trick is ridiculously easy for Ness, since the timing to input the aerial is much later and more lenient. I think it must come from his slower jump start. Lucas you have to move really fast to do the aerial. Haven't tried Peach,but there wouldn't be any use to it anyway since float canceling is so much better and easier.

You need to make a video then, because I don't understand

 

[Hylian]

I played a lot today with a friend, and I've been doing some sickkk combos.

Magnet -> DJC Bair is insane and flashy. Just hit the top of them, looks so sick hitting it instantly without a WD in between. If they shield your magnet you can DJC dair -> Dtilt for crazy shield pokes or you can cross them up with DJC bair. Lucas has a lot of close-up options I feel he didn't have before and it's awesome.

 

[Garzal]

Sorry if this has been brought up, but I've just been working on turnaround multimagnets. Can't really pull them off just yet, but I'm wondering if anyone else does this and if there is a secret to it. It seems to work on fast fallers at least for quite a while, haven't tested it on other characters.

 

[Burnsy]

Lucas has a lot of close-up options I feel he didn't have before and it's awesome.

2.6 Lucas is indeed awesome

He was always awesome though, this is more like the icing and cherry on top

Sorry if this has been brought up, but I've just been working on turnaround multimagnets. Can't really pull them off just yet, but I'm wondering if anyone else does this and if there is a secret to it. It seems to work on fast fallers at least for quite a while, haven't tested it on other characters.

Now when you say multimagnet, do you just mean like a spacie multishine or do you mean comboing with a grounded magnet>jump magnet>dj magnet

 

[Garzal]

2.6 Lucas is indeed awesome

He was always awesome though, this is more like the icing and cherry on top




Now when you say multimagnet, do you just mean like a spacie multishine or do you mean comboing with a grounded magnet>jump magnet>dj magnet

Like a spacie. Mhm. It seems that the second one just barely taps them, but it makes them fall straight down, so you should be able to do another one right on them, then another turnaround. But I'm not skilled enough to test it out.

Edit: I did have fox get hit by like two in a row up to some pretty high percents though.

 

[SpiderMad]

THIS.

I'm starting to get huge withdrawal symptoms from not having his old dair

 

[_R@bid_]

You need to make a video then, because I don't understand

I don't have anything to record SSBB with, and it wouldn't help much anyways, since you'd just see me doing normal DJC. It's just an easier way to do it that likely makes lower DJC alot more possible, since the double jump is buffered, rather than relying on precise timing. I myself am mostly casual for the most part, can hardly SHFFL or wavedash, and was never able to DJC before, but now I can do things like Magnet > DJC Bair spike wihtout much effort, which feels so utterly satifying. Just hit up on the control stick near simultaneously with down on the c stick( or to the side, it doesn't matter), and then do an aerial. It's the exact same as a normal DJC in effect, but with much more leniency and less distance for the thumb to move to perform most aerials. Since Bair seems to come out slower than the rest, I do it a little differently- rather than hitting down with the c stick for the DJ, I hit back, move it back to the center, and hit back again, which is a little slower than moving from down to back and gives a little more time to rise so you don't land before the hitbox comes out. Also finally tested it with Peach and found something cool. She must have more of a dip in her DJ or something, since she lands before she can start rising. Super easy way to do DSmash OoS.

 

[Lukingordex]

I'm not so sure about it's combo potential, actually. It'll be neat once we find out when it is better to use in combo but I think that his other moves are going to allow better flexibility in followups in most situations. Currently, I am more focused on developing the defensive side of the move as a combo breaker or for stuffing/protecting against strong hits.

Actually, I just thought of one potentially great use. If they are the type that uses attacks out of hitstun to escape combos (see: Luigi Nair), then the Burstcould be really good about acting as a followup while still covering that option.

I'd like to know what combos you guys have done with it though. Like I said, I haven't experimented much, but I do know that it can combo into itself at certain percents and DI.

I think I exaggerated a little when I said that it can combo a lot hahaha,but it definitely have some combo potencial at low %s

 

[Shao-tan]

Does anyone have a video of DJC PKF? I can kinda do it, but it seems to be much slower than 2.5's, am I doing something wrong? I seriously miss doing double djc pkf into fsmash etc.

So far I'm having trouble adapting, as this update seems to somewhat kill my playstyle with Lucas.

 

[Dron]

sounds like you're just not going from Y to B fast enough, gotta do it in one fast flick (and if you're not using Y, you probably should since you don't have to slide your finger across the A button)

 

[Burnsy]

Spend some time in the lab and just start working on retraining your djc pkf muscle memory. The method Dron described is probably whats going to be easiest for most people. Rising djc is nice, just realize that the downside is that now the is much less flexibility in where you release your pkf.

 

[Sartron]

This new neutral special is so fast. It has a lot of out of shield potential and maybe shield pressure as well. It is fast enough to combo out of the magnet immediately, like most moves. Magnet to Neutral Special looks pretty cool. Here's my attempt at showing the hitboxes.

[COLLAPSE="NSPECIAL"]

Hitboxes on frames 3-4
[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Burnsy]

Oh. The hitbox was frame 1 in an alpha build, I guess they changed that. If you turn on hurtboxes, he still has invincibility at a certain point, right?

 

[Sartron]

As far as I can tell, he has no invincibility.

 

[Burnsy]

Meh, that's a buzz kill. That really surprises me they would take that out. I thought it seemed like that was the point of the move.

EDIT: Just kidding. I just checked myself and confirmed. He has full body intangibility frames 2 and 3. Phew, I was really worried. The move would be a lot more useless without it.

Also, tonight Calabrel told me that the lag Lucas' experiences when he absorbs projectiles has been lessened in 2.6. I'm going to start experimenting with magnet glide movement against laser spam, to see how viable that is.

 

[Ishiey]

Really glad to see that people are enjoying the new bair/dair overall

IMO, OU Burst is meant to be used more as a counter attack than a combo-breaker. It's usually better to DJ out of combos, or AD away > snake.

Lucas's OU U-smash KOs Mario on FD at 81%, with proper survival DI in, 75% if they accidentally survival DI out on reflex.

Fox's U-smash KOs Mario on FD at 88%, with proper survival DI out.

Fox can land his easier with stuff like Shine Wavedash Up-smash, but Lucas still has a lot of combos that lead into direct Boost Smash (DACUS) KOs.


Technically though, it is not weaker.

That's for OU usmash though, which needs like two seconds of charge time, whereas Fox/Pika have their usmashes at that strength/speed without any preparation... what are the KO %s for Lucas's regular usmash?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I don't think I'm good enough to play Lucas

 

[Master WGS]

Do you keep your charge on hit with OU Burst?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Yes you do.

 

[Sartron]

EDIT: Just kidding. I just checked myself and confirmed. He has full body intangibility frames 2 and 3. Phew, I was really worried. The move would be a lot more useless without it.

Woops, sorry. Didn't notice intangibility. I guess intangibility is better than invincibility anyways.

In another news, does the nair feel different to anyone? I feel like it combos better. Maybe placebo effect.

 

[Shell]

Nair's send-off angle is 5 degrees higher.

PMBR Playtesters had mixed success using Burst as a combo breaker, but we thought we'd leave it in to get more feedback from you guys instead of just axing it.

 

[Burnsy]

The hitboxes were reworked. I'm actually not a fan of how they link compared to in 2.5, but that could change. On the plus side, it covers slightly more range.

I was probably 6/10 for my combo break and counterattact attempts with OU burst at last night's smashfest. Not bad for my first time, I'm really excited to practice with it more.

 

[Oracle]

only loss at the tournament yesterday was infinity's metaknight, who did literally nothing in neutral but fullhop, camp in the air, and spam divekick. **** that character

 

[Hylian]

If he did the same thing over and over you shouldn't be complaining you should be winning.

No johnnnnssss.

 

[Master WGS]

Does Magnet's hitboxes refresh or whatever at a faster rate? Like, does it hit more times if you hold it on someone than it did in 2.5? Maybe my brother is terrible, but that seems like a good way to break a shield.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

ROB is a really hard MU, is there a way to beat him? I got the pleasure of fighting three yesterday.

 

[Oracle]

If he did the same thing over and over you shouldn't be complaining you should be winning.

No johnnnnssss.

he did the 100% safe thing over and over, which required me to make a hard read to punish. every time I touched him was a prediction, and he made zero mental effort to win >.> to be fair, I did sd a few times, but it was still moronic that he was being rewarded for that type of play. and no, he didn't just divekick into me a million times. If i stayed out of range of the angled one, he would just safely land, fullhop again, and keep camping. not much i could do about that without taking stupid risks

ROB is a really hard MU, is there a way to beat him? I got the pleasure of fighting three yesterday.

Rob does not actually have a shield so if you pressure it and start nairing it'll go through. don't be predictable with your recovery or you'll get gimped, airdodge into gyro to catch it and still have zair available, and dair him into the ground to end your combos so you can abuse his garbage tech roll.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I dunno. Rob has really good range on his aerials, jab, and F-tilt and is very rarely on the ground, my biggest problem was landing clean hits and getting in.

 

[Kally Wally]

Does Magnet's hitboxes refresh or whatever at a faster rate? Like, does it hit more times if you hold it on someone than it did in 2.5? Maybe my brother is terrible, but that seems like a good way to break a shield.

I'm fairly certain it does, yes.

 

[SpiderMad]

he did the 100% safe thing over and over, which required me to make a hard read to punish. every time I touched him was a prediction, and he made zero mental effort to win >.> to be fair, I did sd a few times, but it was still moronic that he was being rewarded for that type of play. and no, he didn't just divekick into me a million times. If i stayed out of range of the angled one, he would just safely land, fullhop again, and keep camping. not much i could do about that without taking stupid risks

You were Lucas? I bet his old dair coulda beat it. Did he win the tournament?

 

[Naughty Pixel]

i can't reliably djc his pkf from x anymore Q.Q, also b reversing down b doesn't really work anymore either. these 2 things are REALLY throwing me off right now lol. other than that though, im really really liking the new bair. his dair seems a bit more reliable off stage which is nice. im trying to figure out how i can use his charged neural b as well, i like it but it doesnt seem to lead into anything substantial.