Link's Match-Up Chart thread

[Problem2]

I was looking through everyone's opinions on match ups and as far as numbers are concerned, how did we come up with Jiggs 45-55? I understand Jiggs is a little more vulnerable to projectile spam than other top tiers, but one mistake by Link or one good read by jiggs takes a stock off of Link, and Link has no way to really kill jiggs other than grind damage and land a safe, but weak kill move.

The only redeeming factor is if by some luck, Jiggs also makes a mistake or finds himself easy to read, Link can kill jiggs at a somewhat low percent with d-air.

 

[Skler]

Jiggs has no approach vs Link. Her bair is really good pressure but the bomb hits through it and so does Link's sword. It's very campy, slow and spammy, but it isn't a bad matchup for Link.

Also I haven't lost to a puff yet in tourny, so maybe that makes me think puff isn't that great vs Link. The MU does take a lot of getting used to though. It's super boring.

 

[Problem2]

Does anyone have advice on the Link vs Ganondorf match up? I feel like that's a match up, I should be doing better in, but I'm doing it wrong. Like, what stage should I take him to for the nuetral and what 2 stages should I have for counterpick?

 

[MALVM MALVM]

I'm not sure. Both the dorf and Link can go to work on each other once one gets above the other. My favourite stages against him are, in order: dreamland, FD, FoD, PS, YS, BF, Brinstar. Run away and rang, rang, rang, rang, rang, rang, rang, banana Link. bomb bomb b-bomb b-bomb. I didn't place RC because I just don't like the boat's funkadelic platforms and tinyness, for rangs lose range and bombs are risky to pull out. Therefore, put RC wherever you want; I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to RC. I put dreamland above FD because the platforms do two things: they make it harder for the dorf to chase you and they give you a way out of the dorf's CG. His CG's so good he's working at ILM.

 

[IYM!]

Does anyone have advice on the Link vs Ganondorf match up? I feel like that's a match up, I should be doing better in, but I'm doing it wrong. Like, what stage should I take him to for the nuetral and what 2 stages should I have for counterpick?

Ganondorf is Strong, with big hitbubbles, and great horizontal Recovery, but, he have a main weakness, his aproach options.

He dont have so many options, and get close to Link, a good Link, is pretty hard,
just spam your projectiles, bombs come so handly here, and boomerang will stop his warlok kick.

Watch out with his air aproaching, ganon have a pretty fast moveset in the air, specialy his Bair (frame 10), Nair (frame 7) and Uair (frame 6), those are his main aproach moves, not principaly for his speed, is for his power and for the fact for being a attack in movement.

this can easyly beaten with Nair and Bairs, than are faster, the Fair of Ganon is slow (frame 14) so an early Fair or Nair with Link will stop him.

Link is Faster, dosent exist dobut about it, just play smart, and keep your distance, this will evitate being chaingrabed.

Ganondorf is such a floaty character, so is easyier kill him with a vertical kill move.
but if he is recovering horizontaly, just gimp him wiith the semi spike

about stages, your best obtion is FD, withou platforms, will be hard for ganon to get close to you. FoD also is good, because the only platforms that are during all the fight is the higher one, so Ganon wont have so many options when the other 2 platforms disapears.

YI is bad for you, is small woith 3 platforms, not more to say.


I hope this help man, the Ganon MU isnt hard if you know how to deal it

 

[Problem2]

Well from what you guys are saying, it sounds to me like I went about it the right way. I was just bested and I still lack actual experience. I took a Ganondorf to FD game 1, then after losing, I tried to take him to RC, but then the player switched to Fox and well I was close anyways.

I did try to run away a lot, but I think I was using my boomerang while I was too close to him. I think running away and pulling a bomb would have been a better option.

 

[IYM!]

that is corret, and for his weight, is pretty easy combo him with utilts.

try this: Dash attack, utilt x 3, and 2 Uairs.

not more than this, after start to spam, even with your hookshot if is necesary (do a dodge as a "evade" move, that way, ganon would thing you are geting away, but after that, use your hookshot, that works if you use it well.

Second, be smart with your hookshot recovery, when you use it, yu are open for a dair, and that mean the instant death if you dont do a meteor cancel quickly.
To evitate this learn how many time you can stay in your airdodge animatin before do a hookshot.

for example look this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qECgym4m2I&feature=related Look at 02:18. that is the trick that i want explain you.

I cant explain it to you due my english skills , but a video is better than a explication


Also a tip that will help you not only agains ganon:

is a very common mistake do air dodge in the ledge of the stage while you are trying to do a wavedash or one of those kind of AT's. If that happens to you, just remeber use your hookshot, remember that you have a big time window of oportunity to do your hookshot recovery before start your helpess fall animation.


I hope this help to you

 

[BRLNK88]

Wtf, 70:30 Marth?

Marth/Link is 55:45 Marth at worst. Link ***** Marth once he gets a combo going, and he can effectively stave off Marth's approach game. No way its that bad if you play the MU correctly.
Fox and Falco also are 70:30 at worst. Link has no 90:10 disadvantage, this is so out of date...

 

[Skler]

What?

Fox has to decide to play the same game as Link for you to even stand a chance in the MU. Marth is probably 70/30 or 60/40, he has better options, better combos and better kills. Projectiles don't mean as much as Link would like them to.

 

[Veetaak]

You guys should try out the Link who drinks milk

 

[Skler]

Our Link used to drink milk so he grew up big and strong.

You should try the Link who can legally drive.

 

[BRLNK88]

What?

Fox has to decide to play the same game as Link for you to even stand a chance in the MU. Marth is probably 70/30 or 60/40, he has better options, better combos and better kills. Projectiles don't mean as much as Link would like them to.

I agree that Fox easily covers all of Link's options, but projectiles, especially bombs, do plenty against Marth if you use them correctly.
From what I've seen and in my experience, Marth has no reliable way of dealing with bombs, so if you maintain your spacing and shell out enough ****, eventually you'll get an opening. Whenever Marths try to pressure me with fairs and nairs, I just retreat and throw a bomb at them, works quite well.
Also, IMO Link combos Marth better than Marth combos Link. Marth's fsmash and dtilt are the only things that really **** Link.
So at worst I think it's only slight Marth, most of the pros I've spoken to seem to agree as well. Plus Link mains like Lord HDL and Germ prove its very doable, its about having the right spacing and stage control.

This ^

Link can space camp with his projectiles that I don't think very many matches are worse than 60-40 in 2011/12. Surely not THIS match-up. I'm not sure you've ever played against a Germ or HDL but when you do I'm sure you'll be updating fast.

With that said I expect Marth to win just don't make the mistake of Striking down to FD...IT'S A TRAP!!!!!!! Luckily most Link's don't know about the gayness of FD though...

I'd say this MU is closer to 55-45. Sometimes 60-40 or 50-50 depending on stage/counter picks...etc. but overall 55-45 is closest.

 

[Skler]

Marth is doable, and 70-30 does mean it's a doable matchup. A good Marth will not let you get projectiles out, so I have no idea how you suggest a Link pulls bombs and gets boomerangs in the air. At the start of the match you can generally get one projectile in the air, and then you have to rely on the advantage that gives you to continue spamming.

It is impossible to maintain spacing when your form of movement is "short hop while using a projectile." Clever spam does let you do a lot, but it's only a matter of time before Marth closes whatever distance there is between you two and starts working you over to the edge. Link does not have room to retreat during the matchup if the Marth is playing it correctly.

Link doesn't combo as well as Marth does either. Sure, the bair is great against him, but how are you landing the bair at all? Marth just needs to land a fair and things go down hill real quick. Link has to get a grab or utilt to really start a combo, and even then Link combos aren't guaranteed to work.

Lol @ FD being good for Link. Marth just walks you over to the edge and then starts wrecking you because you have nowhere to go. Platforms let Link try and escape pressure. FD isn't the worst stage you can go to, but it's not good for Link. Thankfully Marth players are oblivious to the power of Rainbow Cruise so Link does have a solid CP most of the time; especially if the FD + Link = Good thing is popular on the Marth boards.

If you'd like to inform me, what good [I'm using good to mean players who consistently place well in large tournaments, not people who just make it into brackets and such] Marth players have been losing to Links? Citing a friendly between Ken and Aniki is poor form.

What pros are you even talking to about this? Marth players who don't have Link experience or Link players who haven't gone up against a good Marth? Put a high-caliber Marth player against a high-caliber Link and you'll find that Link's options aren't as good as you think they are.

I could give you a dozen examples of "the best Links" losing to "pretty good Marths," but can you even give me one example of "the best Links" beating "the best Marths?"

tl;dr: No, and you need to give proof if you want to make such a claim. Surely in a 60-40 (or BETTER!) matchup there would be instances where the best Link players have beaten the best Marth players in tournament.

 

[Zoro]

I feel bad for the new players coming in who want to learn how to play Link. Most of the "pro" links are very pessimistic when it comes to evaluating Link.

4 years ago, I came to these link boards looking for answers and realized there were none to be found.

A great fox will beat a good link, a great link will beat a good fox. Sometimes great links will play better than their opponent and beat great foxes.

Matchups don't matter (especially at a local level which most of you are at), some are harder than others but if the player doesn't know how to take advantage of link's weaknesses it won't matter at all. Fox is my favorite matchup because everyone plays him. There's no way I wouldn't know how to play them. Most foxes are overly aggressive. The campy ones are the hardest to play but they are few and far between.

Marth isn't that bad, falcon is combo food for link. Sheik is pretty easy as well. You will play 100 nubs before you play 1 pro. Don't base the matchups on pros vs random links. Look at extremely good links like HDL vs pros. He has excelled against players like m2k, mango, silent spectre, zhu and the like. I play with hungrybox all the time he is in my crew and i've beaten him with Link before.

Just because a character is higher on the tier list than link doesn't make it a bad matchup. Falco is extremely good for link. DK and the mario bros are his toughest matchups imo. Everyone else is 50-50, play well you win, play bad you lose.

A pro will defeat you based on your own weaknesses more than your characters.

Playing Link is difficult, he has a ton of weaknesses that are easily exposed. Playing a worse character only means you have less room for error. Play better than your opponent and you win. Link is not a play for fun character, he is viable just like any other character. In fact the one strength you have playing link is everyone thinks they know how to play against you but they really have no idea. You expect them to do gimmicks like sheiks/ganons chaingrab or fox's waveshine. Makes it easier to anticipate their decisions which make them all the more easier to read.

Play a high tier, learn how to play MELEE then go back and play Link or the character you favor. I'd advise no one to start playing this game with a handicap or you'll start to believe that a character can make you better than you are.

I'm not the best link, I have a ton of things to work on and I see many areas that still need improvement. Which is the best part: My link can get better

Smashboards won't help you, learn it on your own. You're better off not trying to emulate people that have never won anything. It makes conceited people feel better about losing if they blame their losses on their character.

 

[Skler]

I feel bad for the new players coming in who want to learn how to play Link. Most of the "pro" links are very pessimistic when it comes to evaluating Link.

4 years ago, I came to these link boards looking for answers and realized there were none to be found.

A great fox will beat a good link, a great link will beat a good fox. Sometimes great links will play better than their opponent and beat great foxes.

Matchups don't matter (especially at a local level which most of you are at), some are harder than others but if the player doesn't know how to take advantage of link's weaknesses it won't matter at all. Fox is my favorite matchup because everyone plays him. There's no way I wouldn't know how to play them. Most foxes are overly aggressive. The campy ones are the hardest to play but they are few and far between.

Marth isn't that bad, falcon is combo food for link. Sheik is pretty easy as well. You will play 100 nubs before you play 1 pro. Don't base the matchups on pros vs random links. Look at extremely good links like HDL vs pros. He has excelled against players like m2k, mango, silent spectre, zhu and the like. I play with hungrybox all the time he is in my crew and i've beaten him with Link before.

Just because a character is higher on the tier list than link doesn't make it a bad matchup. Falco is extremely good for link. DK and the mario bros are his toughest matchups imo. Everyone else is 50-50, play well you win, play bad you lose.

A pro will defeat you based on your own weaknesses more than your characters.

Playing Link is difficult, he has a ton of weaknesses that are easily exposed. Playing a worse character only means you have less room for error. Play better than your opponent and you win. Link is not a play for fun character, he is viable just like any other character. In fact the one strength you have playing link is everyone thinks they know how to play against you but they really have no idea. You expect them to do gimmicks like sheiks/ganons chaingrab or fox's waveshine. Makes it easier to anticipate their decisions which make them all the more easier to read.

Play a high tier, learn how to play MELEE then go back and play Link or the character you favor. I'd advise no one to start playing this game with a handicap or you'll start to believe that a character can make you better than you are.

I'm not the best link, I have a ton of things to work on and I see many areas that still need improvement. Which is the best part: My link can get better

Smashboards won't help you, learn it on your own. You're better off not trying to emulate people that have never won anything. It makes conceited people feel better about losing if they blame their losses on their character.

I understand what you're trying to say, Zoro, but telling people Link is totally fine to play against Sheik players and things like that is kind of silly. Good knowledge of Link's matchups lets you know when to counterpick and gives people an idea of how things work.

Yes, you can walk all over mediocre players and people who do "ok" in tournaments if you're really good with Link. Matchups start mattering when both players are very good, and that's the point of knowing matchups.

Link does have a fighting chance against Falco, Peach, Puff and Marth (and, to a lesser extent, Falcon, Fox and Sheik). They aren't good matchups by any stretch of the word (except maybe puff), but they aren't absolutely atrocious either. It's unrealistic to say "oh hey just go Link all the time, I'm sure that Fox who's running away and laser camping will lose somehow" because there's a point where that just isn't true.

Please do not mention friendlies. They're about having fun and figuring out what works and what doesn't.

 

[BRLNK88]

Links combos are by no means guaranteed, but neither are marths. Getting hit by a fair doesnt mean you're screwed. But Link does **** up Marth pretty hard once he gets below him. Also if Marth gets a grab on Link he doesnt really have that great of follow ups.

 

[Zoro]

I understand what you're trying to say, Zoro, but telling people Link is totally fine to play against Sheik players and things like that is kind of silly.

Link does have a fighting chance against Falco, Peach, Puff and Marth (and, to a lesser extent, Falcon, Fox and Sheik). They aren't good matchups by any stretch of the word (except maybe puff), but they aren't absolutely atrocious either. It's unrealistic to say "oh hey just go Link all the time, I'm sure that Fox who's running away and laser camping will lose somehow" because there's a point where that just isn't true.

It's silly to tell people it isn't totally fine. Everyone who comes here and reads these topics is under the assumption that it isn't fine. Why would they attempt to find solutions to match-up problems if everyone tells them there aren't any.
Link doesn't have a fighting chance against falco, peach,fox, sheik, falcon, puff and marth. He has an equal chance of winning or better because he plays all those characters exceptionally well.


I remember I played HDL with falco in tournament and my falco ain't that bad, I've beaten guys like lambchops and rockcrock with it. I know link's weaknesses and i still thought afterwards "man that is a hard match-up for falco". The amount of competent falcos greatly outweigh the amount of competent links which lends to the general assumption that Link sucks against falco. That is a logical fallacy. It's easier to get better with falco and gain confidence when the meta is accessible and relatively straightforward. It's harder to become a good player while learning how to use Link.

The problem is 99% of link mains don't know how to play link. If you don't have the knowledge beforehand on how to handle certain situations, you won't magically find your answer in battle.

For example:
I think stages also play a factor in which match-ups are harder than others. Fox on FD for example can go two ways. The fox is overly aggressive: works in your favor, just shield di inevitable drill shine and punish. campy fox: worst stage for you, he waits and baits when you make a mistake he punishes for like 30-70 % sometimes. In that case go to any stage with platforms and when you grab throw him up to the platforms and keep him above you. You can kill him in one combo, kill or be killed. There are solutions to match-ups, some are harder than others but I haven't found one yet where I would say link has less than a 50% chance of winning if both players at at the same skill level.

Ice Climbers and Ganon were considered garbage before single individuals found ways to exploit their strengths. I don't think every character in melee has a fighting chance but I think Link has as much potential as Samus or Ganon.

You are right friendlies don't mean anything, just wanted to show some kind of proof instead of just using baseless opinion.

This thread should not exist, it only reinforces the lie that Link will never be a viable character.The lack of reliable information in these boards are remarkable. "Let me teach you how to get by with this crappy characterray they mess up a lot or Switch characters". I've won smaller tournaments with Link and if Mango chose to take a harder route with Link he could win tournaments with him too because the player makes the character good not the other way around.

So yes, you can go link all the time and you will get your *** handed to you until you figure out how to play him. Just like any other good character

PS: All the vids i've shown so far were played against nationally recognized players. Seibrik is FL's best brawl player but was a top fl melee player before brawl came out. Colbol is the second best in our state right now after hungrybox. I've played tope, kels, armada, macd, lambchops, cactuar and plenty of other well known players and I've beaten or done as well as any one else at my level would do against them with Link. Not to say i'm good but to say Link has potential in the world stage

 

[Skler]

If Marth lands a fair in the air he gets a combo. If he lands a fair on the ground Link's options (if you weren't CCing) are either shield, spot dodge or roll. Link is too slow to counterattack, and even if CCing you aren't guaranteed to hit him with a dsmash or anything else.

Link and Marth both ruin each other when they're below them, so that's kind of a moot point. Link does have an easier time getting down if he was sent really high up, but that happens so rarely against Marth (what move was he using to get you there?) that it isn't a factor.

Link can beat Marth and can be reasonably expected to do so, even when player skill is almost even. A lot of it is MU knowledge (Marth can edgeguard Link well once they figure out that it isn't so hard, and they can learn to actually deal with spam effectively) and practice.

70-30 looks really bad on paper but it just means that, all other things being equal, Marth wins about twice as often as Link does.

Edit:
Zoro, do you have a lot of experience in the Falco vs Link matchup from the Falco side? Probably not. I used to get surprise wins off of people all the time, it happens in unfamiliar matchups and Link is usually unfamiliar. Link is GREAT against Falcos who don't play the matchup often, but is he actually good against Falco? No.

Hilariously enough, the lack of Links is probably a boon to the character as a whole (when viewed on MU charts). The only Link players who get noticed as the ones who are doing exceptionally well and the character is often based off the few shining examples that exist. There are a lot more Falcos, but the vast majority of them are worse than the top Links. What matters for matchups is top players vs top players, because that's where you see a character's potential.

You are incredibly optimistic about Link's chances against certain characters. Fox absolutely tools Link if he plays it correctly, or even if he plays it aggressively but knows how to pressure Link well. Nobody drills shields anymore, good Fox players know that if they nair your shield they can just hang out and do shines and nairs all day until you roll or eat a hit.

It's great that you think Fox is easy, but I just think you haven't played the right Fox yet. I have had the privilege of playing a Fox who ran away and camped lasers. Didn't even try to hit me when I approached, just ran to the other side of the stage and kept right on camping. Link does not have a way to beat this because you can't cover all of Fox's options with projectiles and yourself. If you try he can just nair through you and keep right on camping.

This thread exists to discuss matchups. If Link does well we talk about why Link does well, if Link does bad we talk about why Link does bad. For example, I think Link vs Puff is even or maybe a tiny bit in favor of puff (just because of rest garbage and my personal dislike of 7 minute matches). As far as your shenanery...

I know Colbol is nationally recognized, but you can't tell me he wasn't having a crappy match there. He's an incredible player and you apparently are too, but he missed a bunch of easy punishes that would have been game ending; people have off games. I beat Cort's Fox when he had a bad match, but that doesn't mean my Link can beat Cort's Fox anywhere near consistently. As a side note, Colbol's empty jumps are awesome; what a tricksy guy. Props on beating him because even on his worst day he can wipe the floor with almost anyone.

I've played a plethora of great players in my day too and done fine with Link. I never tell people "hey man, don't play Link he's terrible and can never win anything ever." Have you bothered to read the Link guide I wrote? I tell people not to blame Link for their loses and it's their own fault if they lose.

However, I also recognize that playing Link against Sheik is bringing a plastic spork to a gunfight. I tell people it's a bad matchup even though I've beaten plenty of good Sheiks; I tell them because it's true. I also don't mean to sound rude, but you beat a guy who wasn't on the same level as you. That isn't anything worth mentioning.

Stages are a big factor too, but matchups you generally just assume a neutral stage. Link vs Marth on RC is a pretty solid MU for Link, but Link vs Marth on Yoshi's story goes completely in the opposite direction.

As one final thing, if Link isn't at a disadvantage and you think top Link players are so talented, why don't these "top Links" place in large tournaments at all? Why is it such a huge accomplishment when they make it into brackets? Shouldn't they be tooling on lesser players because a competent Fox player isn't a challenge at all?

Where are the top Link players in brackets at the Pounds?

Actually I just noticed something: This thread isn't about finding solutions to link's matchup problems. This is one to discuss the matchups for a (now defunct) chart. I'd gladly discuss strategies against certain characters in other threads, but that isn't the point of this one.


tl;dr: I know what you're trying to say, but Link is not a good character. Yes, players can get better and Link certainly hasn't hit a ceiling yet, but it's crazy to suggest his matchup against Sheik isn't bad or that he isn't badtouched by Fox most of the time. You did good vs Colbol though; you should put more videos on the Link boards. You're good.

 

[BRLNK88]

After Marth has landed at most a couple fairs on Link in the air, it shouldn't be too hard to DI out, even for Link. Players like Germ and HDL (especially Germ) aren't gonna have bad DI.
I honestly don't understand why you're so pessimistic, what Marths have you faced?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Skler is so polite. Even when talking to people with little ability to think objectively.

 

[BRLNK88]

Assuming you're talking to me, how am I not thinking objectively?

 

[Skler]

He isn't talking to you, BR.

 

[BRLNK88]

Ah cool, you can just call me Brown Link btw lol.
When I made my SN I still played Barlw, and my tag was "BRLNK".

 

[Skler]

Still shorter to type BR!

Also, if you're curious as to what Marth players I've faced the answer is pretty much all the EC ones. I enjoy the MU and used to play it pretty frequently before everyone stopped picking Marth.

 

[BRLNK88]

In that case BL is fine.

Interesting you say they've stopped playing on the East Coast, there are Marth mains aplenty here in Texas, its the only high tier match-up I can do with Link, and a fair alternative to Marth dittos.

 

[Skler]

Link is totally capable of beating Marth, it's just still in Marth's favor by a decent amount.

All I ever play nowadays are space animals. Last tournament-- let me think...I played two peach players, two Falcos (who promptly switched to Fox for the other matches), one puff, one Link, one Sheik, one Marth, one Samus and probably 6 Fox players. I think I also played a grand total of 15 games in tournament. When over half your games are against space animals things start to get weird.

 

[BRLNK88]

I always get the most obscure characters when I enter tourneys.
Last one I attended was when AZ came to Texas, I had to face Tai very first round. :/
I then got an Icies main (now Wobbles's gf), and then, amazingly enough, a LINK main...
He beat me in a Link ditto, and then I barely lost when I went Marth.

 

[Smurfy EXE]

crushnasty

 

[t3h Icy]

I remember this thread! :D

Also Sisfilly.

 

[BRLNK88]

@BRLINK88

I haven't read any of your previous posts, I just stumbled upon THIS thread
But do you need help with Marth or Icies?

Just like Skler said, Link is totally capable of beating Marth! Just gotta play smarter! :D

I've got the Marth MU pretty well down, actually its my best known MU after Marth/Falco lol.
I pretty much owned the ICs player, only stocks I lost were from wobbling.

 

[cjugs]

Still shorter to type BR!

Also, if you're curious as to what Marth players I've faced the answer is pretty much all the EC ones. I enjoy the MU and used to play it pretty frequently before everyone stopped picking Marth.

It used to be fun to play against him untill everyone stopped playing him and started playing falco or sheik also so now the only marths that you play against are stupidly good so it isn't as much fun

 

[Zodiac]

I usually just bait the hell out of marth with rangs and bombs, more bombs since he likes to swing his sword so much. what I try to do also is know when he is going to grab and just counter grab him because likely they will be dance dancing and hungry for the grab. It works moderately well, I don't have as much experience as I would like in the match up.

 

[BRLNK88]

Well, I've concluded I can't do this MU anymore against good Marths.
Since I've been focused on trying to get better with Marth myself, my spam game has gone down the toilet. I hate Marth dittos with a passion and I had to face two fairly good Marths at the last tourney I attended. Tried going Link against them both, did not work AT ALL. Tried to be way too aggressive, what kept running through my mind was "why can't he be as good as Project M Link"? 64-style rang, arrows that are actually effective, faster and stronger sword attacks, that keeps the tiara ***** away very well.

 

[Cherished Doll]

Link can easly beat a Falco, beating a Fox I feel is a bit more difficult due to the waveshine that Fox has which for some reason ***** poor Link.
Project M Link is sooo Beast!

 

[BairJew]

When playing a spacie how should you change your game play to better improve, due to the difficulty of camping falco and just the overall **** SP of fox? Is UPB OoS an option against SP or can it just get redic punished (which usually happens when I play)

 

[Problem2]

When playing a spacie how should you change your game play to better improve, due to the difficulty of camping falco and just the overall **** SP of fox? Is UPB OoS an option against SP or can it just get redic punished (which usually happens when I play)

Here are some simple suggestions vs Falco.

#1, always stay on a different level than Falco when you're camping or he's camping. If he's on the ground, move to a platform; if he's on a platform, move back to the ground.

#2, always get that gimp as soon as you get him off stage. Nair is really effective at shutting down Falco's recovery. You don't have to worry about getting hit by his up-b charging up. Unlike Fox's up-b, Falco's up-b doesn't have a hitbox when charging.

Other than that, just remember to be real efficient on your execution. You're playing against much faster characters than you are, so there is little room for error.

 

[BairJew]

Here are some simple suggestions vs Falco.

#1, always stay on a different level than Falco when you're camping or he's camping. If he's on the ground, move to a platform; if he's on a platform, move back to the ground.

#2, always get that gimp as soon as you get him off stage. Nair is really effective at shutting down Falco's recovery. You don't have to worry about getting hit by his up-b charging up. Unlike Fox's up-b, Falco's up-b doesn't have a hitbox when charging.

Other than that, just remember to be real efficient on your execution. You're playing against much faster characters than you are, so there is little room for error.

Awesome thanks for the tip! So basically I wan't to also work on proper spacing in that situation as well, and I didn't know that about falco's recovery, I usually use nair to edgegaurd someone out of their recovery so that will definitely help. I learnt quickly that nair on fox's recovery is definitely a harder thing to do so thanks again.

 

[Problem2]

So I was thinking about how to punish Jigglypuff when she misses a rest again. In the past we discussed what would do the most damage. We decided either you:
1.) set up return boomerang -> charged f-smash -> return boomerang -> f-smash
2.) bomb drop -> d-air (when you don't have time for #1.)

These are nice combos. They do over 30% iirc, but a lot of times, I just want to be able to kill jiggs, not do some big damage. so I experimented with some things and came up with this:

1.) "point blank" boomerang -> full hop d-air NOT GUARANTEED

Basically throw the boomerang right in jiggs face, full hop after her, and hit her with the start of your d-air, and she'll die if she was at about 47% on FD. As an added bonus, the set up for this combo is quick enough to use even if you actually got hit and died from Rest. I haven't had the chance to test this against a human jigglypuff player yet, so I'm thinking there is a chance she can escape the combo. If not, I believe we got a new real good punish that will revolutionize the match up! :D

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

nair, nair, nair, nair, nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair,nair, nair, nair, nair.

 

[HarbingerZJC]

lol, wow... I thought the Link|YLink match up was in our favor... <.<