Link's Match-Up Chart thread

[Skler]

You are, unfortunately, wrong there. Link vs YL is in the youngin's favor. He spams better and has a much more mobile game than you, he can easily outpace Link and win via harassment into combo kills. He'll take a while, but he WILL eventually wear Link down if played right. Link's best chance is to be aggressive and win trades, he does very well if you are careful and throw a lot of close(ish) range boomerangs.

 

[Bing]

Im almost positive that the Point blank boomerang Dair doesnt consistently work. Pretty sure they can di out

 

[Problem2]

Im almost positive that the Point blank boomerang Dair doesnt consistently work. Pretty sure they can di out

Yeah, I tested it against a human player and they certainly can DI that. I probably should have came back to this thread to correct myself but long forgot to. Sometimes they don't know which way to DI though, and you can even mix it up by short hopping over them cross up style and throw the boomerang behind them. These are all "one time use" tactics mind you. Once you do that, your opponent should not fall for these ever again.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Im almost positive that the Point blank boomerang Dair doesnt consistently work. Pretty sure they can di out

Works often enough and there is enough lag from the rang-hit so that you have time to choose an other aerial if the dair wouldnt connect. I see no reason not to use it.

 

[Bing]

I agree, Boomerang to like a bair or nair would be legit enough, decent rack up of percentage.

 

[Skler]

Close range into dair works on FLOATY characters. It is inescapable by a peach who doesn't nair as soon as stun ends (nobody does this, ever) or a samus who doesn't nair out of stun. Close rang is the bane of floaties.

 

[Bing]

So I've been playing around edge guarding and I wondering this.

Against Falcon, if you knock them offstage then drop down while they're recovering and up-b to the ledge would that not cover a few option?


I know you could just nair offstage, but Im trying to think of Original ideas

 

[BRLNK88]

That would work, it works against Marth too but you have to be very precise.

 

[Skler]

Vs Falcon edgeguard?

Nair off stage, double jump into nair while close to him, upB sweetspot the edge. On stage you just ftilt him a lot.

You can also edgeguard him with bairs, which is really cool and fun and awesome and professional looking. You can land 2 bairs just by letting go of the edge, bairing, double jumping and bairing again while rising.

 

[Bing]

I knew about all of those edge guards, I like bair the most because you like awesome doing it, I just wanted to try the sweetspot Up-B. Oh well, nair just looks so lame

 

[ShellShocked]

nair may look very lame, but how does Falco's dair look when it kills? Or Fox's shine gimps? A lot of edgeguards, especially gimps look lame, but are effective nonetheless.

 

[Bing]

Yeah... but I dont care if they look lame, Im simply saying I want to use more fancy edge guards as opposed to nairs.

 

[ShellShocked]

That is also a very good point, it's also nice to have more than one effective edgeguard as well at your disposal, I just thought you meant you didn't like the move BECAUSE it looked lame lol

 

[Bing]

Oh Good no, Link's nair is ****ing **** in many situations!

 

[ShellShocked]

I totally agree! It's crazy how that move can be utilized in so many different situations!

 

[MALVM MALVM]

"Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing."

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

BUY THIS BOOK. NOW. READ IT AND MEMORIZE IT AND START WINNING TOURNAMENTS.

YES. THE CAPS LOCK IS JUSTIFIED, B***H.

 

[Linkownz]

Man this was a heated discussion... hope a lot of you still play, I want to get some link back into the melee scene this summer!!

--Shaeman111

 

[MALVM MALVM]

You should've seen the HDL/Skler drama

 

[Linkownz]

What the... DO TELL!

 

[SYickX]

Fairy in a Bottle (get it?)

i know this thread is old, but i really want to see more thought going into this character
some notes
i think skler's list is very fair for the game at that time and hasn't changed much
i've been playing link for about 4 years (mainly against a peach and a fox)
i try to funnel my opponent onto the end of my sword with bombs/boomerangs, then juggle
i think the links of the community should try to fight as many ganons, peaches, and marths as possible
these three character are tall and (relative to to the top tier) slow, this makes them good targets
if we know more about link, we can push these closer to even

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

I hate ratios, ratios only make people either arrogant or depressed.

Anyways I find myself having a lot of trouble with ICs, how the **** do I avoid getting wobbled.

 

[SYickX]

i preface this with the fact that i only know this MU in theory

get yourself on a platform with a bomb, the ICs will try to bait you off the platform, so they can abuse their WD to punish all of link's laggy moves
from here, you can hit them with bombs, and if anything starts to go wrong, hold the bomb and throw a boomerang (its not the most reliable, but it could blast/nip you out of a chaingrab)

if not in a platform, be in the air

and remember, you can actually grab them, if you're fast and clever

bombs are great for splitting them up, and a returning boomerang will throw off the delicate de-sync procedures

(i fight sheik similarly, and i've been doing better in that MU)

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Hmm okay, not a lot new stuff, I guess I just have to do everything better, lol. Do you have any more controversial ideas that I might try?

How much extra lag does nana have?

 

[Skler]

Controversial way to beat the ICs: Run away on platforms while throwing things at them and time them out/win because you have good aerials

They have very bad maneuverability in the air, along with a weak air game (except uair and bair). You should be able to do this on Battlefield and DL64, and most ICs will not strike Battlefield. It's pretty much a free win if you're really willing to buckle down and do it.

You can kinda do it on FoD as well. They can't hit you on the top platform if you jump when they do, and they have a hard time dealing with you holding a bomb on it.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Controversial way to beat the ICs: Run away on platforms while throwing things at them and time them out/win because you have good aerials

They have very bad maneuverability in the air, along with a weak air game (except uair and bair). You should be able to do this on Battlefield and DL64, and most ICs will not strike Battlefield. It's pretty much a free win if you're really willing to buckle down and do it.

You can kinda do it on FoD as well. They can't hit you on the top platform if you jump when they do, and they have a hard time dealing with you holding a bomb on it.

So in general I want to be in a 45 degree angle above in front of them and camp the **** out of them. The more I think about it, the more I think you both might be right and that I screw up way to much in my platform camping.

 

[Skler]

So in general I want to be in a 45 degree angle above in front of them and camp the **** out of them. The more I think about it, the more I think you both might be right and that I screw up way to much in my platform camping.

Once you get a % lead on them your only goal is to be on a platform far away from them. If they want to chase you effectively they'll need to get into the air, and then you bomb -> aerial and keep running away or finish the combo.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

What do I do if I get behind, I find myself helpless when I do in many other matchups where I've tried this strategy. Especially if I loose a stock due to some unexpected big play from my opponent.

 

[SYickX]

also, when you split them up, i would focus on keeping them split rather than going straight for the kill
be patient, and for the IC player to get his nana back by force

 

[Skler]

What do I do if I get behind, I find myself helpless when I do in many other matchups where I've tried this strategy. Especially if I loose a stock due to some unexpected big play from my opponent.

If you fall behind you just need to play safe with projectiles and spacing. Once they go aggressive get on platforms until you have a bomb again, then keep doing that.

If you camp from the start it's almost impossible for them to get a lead, they just can't hit you.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Is there someway I might be able to exploit links good fastfall speed? I should be able to get in on them from above pretty quickly and time a uair(from above) when they got ending lag from their uairs. Any thoughts?

EDIT: Some more questions. What tools do I have to keep them seperated? What tools do I have to kill nana? Might the hookshot be a good way to take nanas jump and make her fall?

 

[SYickX]

bombs have somewhat unique hitboxes, they tend to send them in different directions
bair's 2 hitboxes can hit each separately, kicking them at different trajectories
a returning boomerang can mess up their de-sync, then you can hit one of them
uair and dair hit opponents in trajectories that tend away from link, getting right between them will split them up

also, up-b kills nana (but make sure popo is far away) nana's ai is bad, so she'll jump into the semispike

i'd avoid the hookshot (lag) unless you can boomerang cancel

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

The hookshots doesnt lag if you make it a slip-off, and it doesn't lag that bad otherwise either.
(as bad as a L-canceled dair, which is not terribad just bad)

total amount of frames in comparison with other edgeguarding tools(from standing):
hookshot 6 frames(jump)+3 frames(wait so that we get the correct height)+18 frames(fully extended)+3 frames(FF to ground)+30 frames(landlag) = 60 frames

Which is 20 frames quicker than a up-b and 15 frames slower than a rang-throw, the added 6 frames are made-up though, but I think the value should be around there maybe add another 5 frames at worst.

I play PAL so I don't have the semi-spike, not that I think nana needs to be spiked. Just hitting her should be enough.

I guess rising bair could be a good tool against the ICs it comes in from the side so that we can avoid their good aerials.

Is the tools to split the same tools to keep them split?

 

[Problem2]

If you're looking for some neat match-up specific tricks you can try. Often times, when you bomb drop over Nana's head, she'll get hit by it since she doesn't shield until after popo starts shielding. Also, the AI will sometimes even try to grab it, resulting in getting hit, or actually grabbing it! That dumb broad doesn't know what to do with a bomb though and often times hurts her and/or popo with it.

One thing for sure, they can't do desynch stuff, wobble, or otherwise chain grab you well while she's holding that bomb.

 

[SYickX]

The hookshots doesnt lag if you make it a slip-off, and it doesn't lag that bad otherwise either.
(as bad as a L-canceled dair, which is not terribad just bad)

total amount of frames in comparison with other edgeguarding tools(from standing):
hookshot 6 frames(jump)+3 frames(wait so that we get the correct height)+18 frames(fully extended)+3 frames(FF to ground)+30 frames(landlag) = 60 frames

Which is 20 frames quicker than a up-b and 15 frames slower than a rang-throw, the added 6 frames are made-up though, but I think the value should be around there maybe add another 5 frames at worst.

I play PAL so I don't have the semi-spike, not that I think nana needs to be spiked. Just hitting her should be enough.

I guess rising bair could be a good tool against the ICs it comes in from the side so that we can avoid their good aerials.

Is the tools to split the same tools to keep them split?

the problem with the hookshot is that it doesn't inflict much hitstun, but if you space it well at high-ish %, then its fine
i'd rather pull a bomb or toss a boomerang though

i really like nair for keeping them split since the front of nair hits forward and the back of nair hits backward
also, you can put a boomerang in nana's path (her AI is bad, so its a predictable path)

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

The thing with the hookshot is that I meant it as a way to take away nanas jump when she is recovering. Not as an on-stage spacing tool.

EDIT: NICE sig btw, eulers formula is one of the most beautiful things in math, lol.

 

[SYickX]

The thing with the hookshot is that I meant it as a way to take away nanas jump when she is recovering. Not as an on-stage spacing tool.

EDIT: NICE sig btw, eulers formula is one of the most beautiful things in math, lol.

ok, i see what you're going for there

and thanks, mathematics ftw