Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]

[Kief]

I'll say this for the second time. Some of you are talking as if Link is high tier or something. He really is not. I can still honestly name at least 20 characters that are without a doubt better than Link. He has been buffed nicely and I give the WBR credit for that. But like Finns said, maybe we should wait to see tourney proof of his dtilt spike being 'too good'.

If you have to change it though, i'd say just weaken it a bit. It's not like its really easy to land right now. Making it harder to land doesn't make much sense to me. I'd be suprised to see it landed on a pro player more than once or twice in a month's time.

 

[Swordplay]

I'd defiantly like to see it weakened and bring back the nair instead

Nair REALLY helped him compete against some tiny characters where zair could not hit.


HOWEVER: I'm begining to agree with Kief. Lets just wait and see how he develops.

I'll say this for the second time. Some of you are talking as if Link is high tier or something. He really is not. I can still honestly name at least 20 characters that are without a doubt better than Link. He has been buffed nicely and I give the WBR credit for that. But like Finns said, maybe we should wait to see tourney proof of his dtilt spike being 'too good'.

If you have to change it though, i'd say just weaken it a bit. It's not like its really easy to land right now. Making it harder to land doesn't make much sense to me. I'd be suprised to see it landed on a pro player more than once or twice in a month's time.

Now, then Most Link players have never had the opportunity to main a good character which is sad. It's hard to know how to make Link good because he has never been good in any smash game.

In my honest opinion, d-tilt doesn't add any depth to his metagame except maybe edge guarding. If he needs badly though leave it or reduce its KB but don't remove it.




But I want you all to think for a second about how Link will **** so hard once we get a code for BKB bombs.seriously and get a code to give him a good throw cause he has none.

Be patient, the WBR is working hard for us.

 

[MookieRah]

I don't see how the dtilt is overpowered considering if people just recovered properly there is no way the dtilt could actually hit them. Pit players need to just learn to recover a safe distance away from the ledge instead of just straight up by the ledge. This is a very situational move, and would only be *too good* if they lower the ledge grab range to where even if you ledge grabbed properly it'd still hit.

Honestly, Link is still subpar. I'm pushing for some more buffs in the WBR. I've been talking to Shanus about making his utilt faster. I think that'd be a nice buff.

 

[Swordplay]

I don't see how the dtilt is overpowered considering if people just recovered properly there is no way the dtilt could actually hit them. Pit players need to just learn to recover a safe distance away from the ledge instead of just straight up by the ledge. This is a very situational move, and would only be *too good* if they lower the ledge grab range to where even if you ledge grabbed properly it'd still hit.

Honestly, Link is still subpar. I'm pushing for some more buffs in the WBR. I've been talking to Shanus about making his utilt faster. I think that'd be a nice buff.

Link players are more than willing to let the WBR weaken d-tilt if we can get a buff Like this or re-add the nair buff or even an arrow speed buff, maybe not all the way but I am sure we could comprimise

 

[Shadic]

Lowering the base KB with it so that it isn't almost a OHKO against some people would be fine by me. Especially if we get some points against short characters. Pikachu, Jigglypuff, TLink, Ness, Lucas... Urgh.

 

[Mattnumbers]

After the buffs I decided to try out Link and I actually really like him now. I've never liked him before now but he's very fun now imo. I love SHFFing Nairs and SH Dair into their face.

 

[matt4300]

After the buffs I decided to try out Link and I actually really like him now. I've never liked him before now but he's very fun now imo. I love SHFFing Nairs and SH Dair into their face.

He could always do those things lol.

Oh.. and I really dont want type a bunch about the new link converstations brewing.... that would be really tedious.. but I'm discussing it with SP so its all good.

 

[Mattnumbers]

He could always do those things lol.

Oh.. and I really dont want type a bunch about the new link converstations brewing.... that would be really tedious.. but I'm discussing it with SP so its all good.

Yeah but I never really played him in vBrawl, let alone Brawl+.

 

[MagmarFire]

I'm trying out 4.1 Link+ for the first time. His new Fair fix is so full of love! ^.^

If opinions are still being accepted for the whole Dtilt deal, I'd go along with just making it a meteor without many changes on BKB. It's kind of predictable anyway (I could just be not doing it optimally, though...), so if someone doesn't meteor cancel it, perhaps the reward/punishment should be one free stock?

Just my two cents, anyways, because I myself kind of think of it as a little bit of an easy move on recovering opponents. Despite the fact that it is a sexy, sexy move. I love it so... :3

 

[goodoldganon]

We (mostly me) ended up dropping the d-tilt change on Link. That means the one has in 4.1 will be the one he has in a future public release. Even with everything Link isn't some super amazing character. It's like Ivy Over-b. Once you learn how it works it's beatable.

 

[MagmarFire]

Duly noted. Just as long as it isn't completely useless after it's worked around in-game... Eh, I'm sure it'll have its moments.

 

[Swordplay]

We (mostly me) ended up dropping the d-tilt change on Link. That means the one has in 4.1 will be the one he has in a future public release. Even with everything Link isn't some super amazing character. It's like Ivy Over-b. Once you learn how it works it's beatable.

Even so, there were a lot of people complaining about Ivy's foward-b.

Don't make the comparison, do what you think is best, and work with us.

I'm sure once we get matchups of characters and things stabilize we can review and tweak.

For now lets get back to discussing metagame.

 

[Rouenne]

To fix his problems with smaller characters Link needs a speed up in his swings and the spin slash. That would allow him to counterattack. Also his second jump should be sightly higher. Relying on UpB to recover can be disastrous sometimes.

BTW Link needs a Luke fon Fabre Texture, it would be perfect!

 

[Finns7]

Link doesnt need anything that are current codes can create. Can we please drop all this link needs this and that and maybe talk about matchups intelligently, and not Marth vs Link: " OMGZERX Link loses 80:20 cus he gets gimped. Also we should have more videos in the thread showing off what link can do. Brawl+ Links just get out there and **** plox

 

[Swordplay]

Link doesnt need anything that are current codes can create.

TRUTH! I guess your right, we should stop this until those codes come out instead of anticipating them.

Finnz has chosen a character to begin matchups:

 

[Finns7]

Shiek/Zelda

Idk maybe we can get matches from the sheik/zelda players to help with the matchup.

 

[Kief]

Lets decide what Link's best and worst neutrals and CPs are. Im sure they're the same for the most part. But eh, why not.

 

[Shadic]

For stages or characters, KIEF?

 

[Swordplay]

Because finnz said so we are doing shiek:

Feel free to challenge shiek players to wifi in order to help understand the matchup:

Also, we will take breaks in between matchup discussions to do discuss other things.

Begin

Edit Picture changed on moderator request


Lets test how good we are at this, If we need to stop we'll stop.
I'll also have a mario summery up from our previous discussion soon.

 

[Kief]

For stages or characters, KIEF?

Stages.

For the matchup. Sheik ***** us, and that's a funny pic. That is all.

Really though, I was just goin to bed. I'll see if I can help out tomorrow.

 

[Almas]

Kids view this forum, Swordplay.

 

[Shadic]

A little bit of sideboob never hurt anybody. That's PG-13 at MOST.

Anyways.. I'm terrible at stage discussion. All I can really say is that I like medium-sized stages with a small blastzone and a minimum of platforms.

 

[mar03]

can you guys start posting some link vids. i dont have brawl+ and id like to see links changes in action

 

[MookieRah]

Anyways.. I'm terrible at stage discussion. All I can really say is that I like medium-sized stages with a small blastzone and a minimum of platforms.

I disagree with this. Platforms help Link ****. Uair spam through platforms, Dair a predicted tech roll on a small platform (like on BF). Platforms help way more than they hurt. Azen demonstrated this at FC6 with Melee Link, and since Link plays like Melee Link on crack I think drawing the comparison is ok. Not to mention I can attest to this personally through playing B+.

Some other things to try before deciding a matchup isn't in Link's favor:
Shanus was telling me that some of the better Link B+ players love to use the hell out of his jab swipe. I already know that jab, jab, downsmash works. Shanus also told me that jab > spinattack works, and if that is the case it's ****ing amazing. I would work towards finding out what Link can do from jabs, and find out better ways to use jab to link into these moves. For instance, if you haven't been doing this, the new run-cancel doesn't just let you perform smashes, it allows you to stop and do anything from a full-on run. Run-canceled jabs are amazing, and a very safe poke.

So yeah, asside from a few small buffs here and there (I'm thinking mostly damage buffs from here on out) I think Link is pretty much good to go. You guys should really start experimenting to find out what things he can do at this point, because he has a lot of potential.

 

[V-K]

can you guys start posting some link vids. i dont have brawl+ and id like to see links changes in action

Here 2 vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvMoj2rw5Yo&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FEQQf3T0ak

 

[matt4300]

Yeh mookie, we know about those moves and combinations and we do use the hell out of JCs. Me and sword play found that jab jab up-b was very inconsistant before thats why it comes out faster now.
I'm sure we are all trying out new link slowly building what will be links new metagame. The combos that work now are insane ^w^ and really work.
Now you say that damage buffs is the only thing that he needs? I and others like to think if he were to get a buff it should be to help him combat small faster chars like squirtle, pika, olimar, shiek.

 

[Swordplay]

Yea platforms help Link ****.
I believed I said before that PS2 is possibly his best stage.

Also, Spin attack works in theory. Dsmash works because it is easy to slap down the C-stick for his fastest smash. (15 Frames)

I believe spin attack was 11 frames so in theory it works but it was inconsistent due to the level of difficulty needed for the perfect timing.

Swordplay, in the current BR set I fixed the spin attack to not miss hitboxes by shaving off 4 frames of start up. JC spin attack is too pro.

I haven't seen or played it so I wouldn't know. I can only speak for what I have witnessed. However, I am excited.



Anyway as I experiment with shiek I'm looking to call this a 60:40 shiek adv.

My reasons include:

Shiek can get way below stage and use an amazing 2nd jump to gimp link. (Link can really only recover below stage.

Shieks speed bypasses almost all of Links spacing techniques including zair. (She runs low and air approaches from difficult angles for us)

She combo's slightly better than us.

We have more range and can do some of the things shiek does but to a much lesser extent.

 

[shanus]

Swordplay, in the current BR set I fixed the spin attack to not miss hitboxes by shaving off 4 frames of start up. JC spin attack is too pro.

 

[Shadic]

Sweet, I look forward to that spin attack, for sure.

And yeah, told you guys that stage advantages weren't my thing.

 

[mar03]

found very good vids of link and he wins a tourny. not me so i wont post a direct link just go to youtube and look for: Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Sonic) vs. Byron (Link)

 

[Chaos Reign]

Anyway as I experiment with shiek I'm looking to call this a 60:40 shiek adv.

My reasons include:

Shiek can get way below stage and use an amazing 2nd jump to gimp link. (Link can really only recover below stage.

Shieks speed bypasses almost all of Links spacing techniques including zair. (She runs low and air approaches from difficult angles for us)

She combo's slightly better than us.

We have more range and can do some of the things shiek does but to a much lesser extent.

I agree with what Swordplay is saying here. Although Shiek might have a rough time killing outside of gimping, getting gimped is still one of Link's weaknesses, so it still tips towards her favor.

Speaking of gimping, throwing out a projectile is most likely safer than trying to do something fancy like dair or nair, just because of the risk involved with missing or getting hit by an attack from her as she recovers. If you miss with the attack, shiek has enough speed and maneuverability to just hit you after you fall and return safely, or she can edgehog with her chain as you recover. Athough if you do decide to go off the edge, try taking a bomb with you, preferably one that's about to explode. It can help sometimes

Maybe this is just speculation, but maybe keeping her above you would work? That way you can try to predict where they're going with upair and bombs. Also shiek doesn't have many options do get down except for dair or airdodging(at least to my knowledge).

EDIT: Sorry if this is the wrong place to post it, but I'll try to contribute more to the Link+ community instead of just lurking around all the time. It will do me some good lol.

 

[Shadic]

found very good vids of link and he wins a tourny. not me so i wont post a direct link just go to youtube and look for: Brawl+ SC Grand Finals: Ramz (Sonic) vs. Byron (Link)

Awesome video, but you could have linked it to make things easier for me.

 

[GHNeko]

I win at YT.


http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...:+Ramz+(Sonic)+vs.+Byron+(Link)&search=Search

 

[Kuga]

EDIT,nvm...

 

[Shadic]

I win at YT.


http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...:+Ramz+(Sonic)+vs.+Byron+(Link)&search=Search

Yeah, too bad I was busy editing the OP when you posted that. And that I had already found it when I made my last post.

If anybody wants to link(lulz) to some other videos, I'd be willing. I'd prefer to be within the last two or three sets though. Old Link is old.

 

[matt4300]

kill moves chart is out of date... I will be sure to make a new one soon.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I see someone linked to Byron vs Ramz from my tourney :D

keep a watch on Ramz' youtube channel, he has a lot more to upload when he can. And soon, we're going to try to make a combo video of this man's crazy Link :D

http://www.youtube.com/user/RamzSSB

 

[Rouenne]

To match Sheik and other small characters Link only really needs a speed increase overall. Faster movement and swings, but not a very big one.

 

[LH621]

I suppose i should come in and say hi, im Byron (that guy who's been showing up recently on youtube in the brawl+ scene). Ive been playing Link for about 10 years now as a main and kept using him up until now as a main...i just didnt really do tournaments for smash so thats why ive never been heard of in this scene up until now.....i was more busy with guilty gear lol (i play as Bridget and go by the same handle on Dustloop)

Either way, thats just a short introduction of me. For those interested, I was told today that another vid may be put up later today, although i dont know what particular match.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I suppose i should come in and say hi, im Byron (that guy who's been showing up recently on youtube in the brawl+ scene). Ive been playing Link for about 10 years now as a main and kept using him up until now as a main...i just didnt really do tournaments for smash so thats why ive never been heard of in this scene up until now.....i was more busy with guilty gear lol (i play as Bridget and go by the same handle on Dustloop)

Either way, thats just a short introduction of me. For those interested, I was told today that another vid may be put up later today, although i dont know what particular match.

You have a very smexy link

Grats on winning that tourney BTW