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Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]
- Thread starter Shadic
- Start date
Demacrez
Smash Journeyman
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- Demacrez
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Yeah, then we don't have to worry about him falling anymore.
I'm still all up for the Gale Boomerang.
I'm still all up for the Gale Boomerang.
The thing about Gale Boomerang is that the KB already pulls them each when you hit. It uses a 110 angle or something. The wind on the way push is technically something that pulls them in, but it also means that it's a projectile that is absolutely worthless to reflect because it doesn't hurt Link.
I'm still not feeling the Jab2 IASA which is completely unneeded, along with UpB aerial being as powerful as it is when it was not actually supposed to be implemented in its current form (great linking hits, or powerful last hit, not both). Kind of like what how Ness's Fair made it in.
I'm still not feeling the Jab2 IASA which is completely unneeded, along with UpB aerial being as powerful as it is when it was not actually supposed to be implemented in its current form (great linking hits, or powerful last hit, not both). Kind of like what how Ness's Fair made it in.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Actually, Shanus worked on it with one of the Link mains, I forget who exactly. SHeLL also backed the move. So yeah, it didn't sneak in in the slightest.
Yeh, It was zxeon and I ... though I don't know if he knew I was testing with zxeon aswell.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
That would explain why I couldn't pinpoint which one of you it was. 
I was stuck between you and him.
I was stuck between you and him.
zaf
Smash Lord
You guys probably don't know this, but yoshi can grab people in the air. I play a lot with a yoshi main and he can grab me after certain hits. I always try to mock him with toon link and grab after i hit someone, but it doesn't work.
Link, toon link, all the tethers should have a grab similar to yoshi's.
Link, toon link, all the tethers should have a grab similar to yoshi's.
zxeon
Smash Lord
Has anyone tried Cape's set? He completely butchered Link. What do you guys think about the changes?
Shadic
Alakadoof?
It's interesting. The Fair feels kinda weird though. I do think the first hit not sucking makes it easier to hit with, but it's still weird.
Fsmash1 was expected. Haven't played much else. Is there a changelist?
Edit:
- First hit of fair is strong, second pops up, damage changed accordingly
- Back throw keeps opponent closer for possible followups
- F throw has a lower angle and a bit more power
- U throw has an IASA to allow for some follow ups
- Jabs have a lower angle
- First hit F smash angle was raised so it was not as powerful
- Last hit upB is not as strong
Haven't tried out the throws or the jabs... Figured the Fsmash nerf was coming, UpB nerf =
Fsmash1 was expected. Haven't played much else. Is there a changelist?
Edit:
- First hit of fair is strong, second pops up, damage changed accordingly
- Back throw keeps opponent closer for possible followups
- F throw has a lower angle and a bit more power
- U throw has an IASA to allow for some follow ups
- Jabs have a lower angle
- First hit F smash angle was raised so it was not as powerful
- Last hit upB is not as strong
Haven't tried out the throws or the jabs... Figured the Fsmash nerf was coming, UpB nerf =
zxeon
Smash Lord
Here are some of my notes on Cape's changes to Link. I also saw the Fsmash and aerial UpB changes coming but I didn't know Fair needed changing.
Link Changes:
- First hit of fair is strong, second pops up, damage changed accordingly
Fair second hit sends opponents up so now you can't start your Fair early before you go off-stage to get a KO with the second strong hit and recover safely
- Back throw keeps opponent closer for possible followups
I don't really see a difference here
- F throw has a lower angle and a bit more power
Forgot to test this
- U throw has an IASA to allow for some follow ups
Can't combo out of it
- Jabs have a lower angle
The Jab combo tree is completely gone and with no auto jabs the timing is completely different and akward
- First hit F smash angle was raised so it was not as powerful
It's got decent killing power now
- Last hit upB is not as strong
Aerial UpB is weaker and with less hitstun impossible to combo still kills alright
Link Changes:
- First hit of fair is strong, second pops up, damage changed accordingly
Fair second hit sends opponents up so now you can't start your Fair early before you go off-stage to get a KO with the second strong hit and recover safely
- Back throw keeps opponent closer for possible followups
I don't really see a difference here
- F throw has a lower angle and a bit more power
Forgot to test this
- U throw has an IASA to allow for some follow ups
Can't combo out of it
- Jabs have a lower angle
The Jab combo tree is completely gone and with no auto jabs the timing is completely different and akward
- First hit F smash angle was raised so it was not as powerful
It's got decent killing power now
- Last hit upB is not as strong
Aerial UpB is weaker and with less hitstun impossible to combo still kills alright
Demacrez
Smash Journeyman
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- Demacrez
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Ah! Leave F-Air alone! It's fine as it is. Same for the multi-jabs. Sad for the nerfed Aerail Up-B but I see why it has to be done. Even though it's badass for recovering against edge hoggers.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Okay, just played a bit more.
- First hit of fair is strong, second pops up, damage changed accordingly
It'd be alright if the second hit also hit hard. Right now, it's kinda worthless.
- Back throw keeps opponent closer for possible followups
Followups? What followups?
- F throw has a lower angle and a bit more power
Works for me.
- U throw has an IASA to allow for some follow ups
It's nice, but the throw has such low stun you can only get something out of it at the higher percentages, it seems. It's not very useful either way. I'd much prefer a Dthrow buff.
- Jabs have a lower angle
They seem to be knocking straight up for me? Either way, I totally can't even finish a jab combo on somebody if they're partially in the air. Totally worthless against Peach.I'd prefer even lower jabs. Maybe the non auto jab is throwing me off, I don't know.
- First hit F smash angle was raised so it was not as powerful
Understandable, still sad.
- Last hit upB is not as strong
I don't think it was broken before.
Edit: You know what I want? Increased priority on Dair. Seriously, too many Usmashes break right through it.
- First hit of fair is strong, second pops up, damage changed accordingly
It'd be alright if the second hit also hit hard. Right now, it's kinda worthless.
- Back throw keeps opponent closer for possible followups
Followups? What followups?
- F throw has a lower angle and a bit more power
Works for me.
- U throw has an IASA to allow for some follow ups
It's nice, but the throw has such low stun you can only get something out of it at the higher percentages, it seems. It's not very useful either way. I'd much prefer a Dthrow buff.
- Jabs have a lower angle
They seem to be knocking straight up for me? Either way, I totally can't even finish a jab combo on somebody if they're partially in the air. Totally worthless against Peach.I'd prefer even lower jabs. Maybe the non auto jab is throwing me off, I don't know.
- First hit F smash angle was raised so it was not as powerful
Understandable, still sad.
- Last hit upB is not as strong
I don't think it was broken before.
Edit: You know what I want? Increased priority on Dair. Seriously, too many Usmashes break right through it.
Haven't played it yet but here are my thoughts from the changelist
Back when Fair was first implemented, Cape really wanted to go a completely different direction. That's the fair he wanted from the beginning. He wanted the second hit to pop up for combos. I doubt this will get implemented. It totally deviates from its original purpose of killing horizontally and because the move lasts long, combo potentials will be extremely limited. With the first hit increased KB, the move takes to long and there are no setups for 2nd slash fair and the move itself is a poor approach move compared to bair, nair and zair.
With less hitstun, Link will loose lots of chase combo potential. Link to me seemed to barely hit people at the end of hitstun so I do have concern with this. However I felt at peace knowing Link players will be able to rely on the faithful jab to set up and ****.
OR SO I THOUGH. You guyz seem to be claiming that Links jab is ruined? If Link has no jab he has no safe spacing which in a fast paced game easily degrades him to poor character. This is especially true if Link's projectiles are not fixed which I KNOW THEY ARN'T. (Thanks a lot bombs)
/end rant of logic and theory.
Anyway I am intrested in testing his set out for myself. Is it available to the public?
Edit: Thanks Shadic. Forgive my noobish as I haven't been active lately. Ive been elsewhere expressing hype for tatsunoko vs capcom. I'll test later
Back when Fair was first implemented, Cape really wanted to go a completely different direction. That's the fair he wanted from the beginning. He wanted the second hit to pop up for combos. I doubt this will get implemented. It totally deviates from its original purpose of killing horizontally and because the move lasts long, combo potentials will be extremely limited. With the first hit increased KB, the move takes to long and there are no setups for 2nd slash fair and the move itself is a poor approach move compared to bair, nair and zair.
With less hitstun, Link will loose lots of chase combo potential. Link to me seemed to barely hit people at the end of hitstun so I do have concern with this. However I felt at peace knowing Link players will be able to rely on the faithful jab to set up and ****.
OR SO I THOUGH. You guyz seem to be claiming that Links jab is ruined? If Link has no jab he has no safe spacing which in a fast paced game easily degrades him to poor character. This is especially true if Link's projectiles are not fixed which I KNOW THEY ARN'T. (Thanks a lot bombs)
/end rant of logic and theory.
Anyway I am intrested in testing his set out for myself. Is it available to the public?
Edit: Thanks Shadic. Forgive my noobish as I haven't been active lately. Ive been elsewhere expressing hype for tatsunoko vs capcom. I'll test later
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Here's a link. (kekeke)
Also, I noticed that arrows totally wreck Luigi's horizontal recovery. It's not anything new, but I just had some fun with that match. It's frustrating how quick Luigi can get outta hitstun though... Gives me more incentive to use the Zair, though.
Also, I noticed that arrows totally wreck Luigi's horizontal recovery. It's not anything new, but I just had some fun with that match. It's frustrating how quick Luigi can get outta hitstun though... Gives me more incentive to use the Zair, though.
Demacrez
Smash Journeyman
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Yeah, me neither. I LOVE F-Air.
zxeon
Smash Lord
As do I. I saw in the plussery thread that this set is going to be released for testing with Link in this condition. Link needs work done before this set releases.
wtf no ... **** that. Just about all of that stuff is either worthless or a nerf. Link is not that good to begin with. Hes **** near perfect in 5.0. Infact he may still need a couple things after a fixed fsmash. Im thinking a rang buff of some sort, or dair priority/power (dosent kill some chars till like 140 now WTF) still cant do bombs.
zxeon
Smash Lord
We don't mean to freak out but Link is serious business.
Did yall see tp link. his range was freaken long but whateva. i played cape set and im feeling link fair u can do a fast fall fair and **** well thats just me. but thats the only buff i saw. his jabs r Stupid gay. change it back or back to vbrawl style cuz they r gay. the fsmash and up b i saw it comin but i miss it . but overall link isnt that as he sould be. Comon ppl IT'S LINK HE SHOULD BE GOOD >.> nintendo ***** him long eough rofl
. but overall link isnt that as he sould be. Comon ppl IT'S LINK HE SHOULD BE GOOD >.> nintendo ***** him long eough rofl
Shadic
Alakadoof?
...Can you... Type better? Thanks.Did yall see tp link. his range was freaken long but whateva. i played cape set and im feeling link fair u can do a fast fall fair and **** well thats just me. but thats the only buff i saw. his jabs r Stupid gay. change it back or back to vbrawl style cuz they r gay. the fsmash and up b i saw it comin but i miss it
I said I'm sort of neutral on Cape's change. If we're getting something like this, the second hit needs to come out much faster. I still want something like the Smash64 Fair.
Why would people not want to edit common3.pac? Can they not edit it yet?
The main problem with Link is that we could never make him what he should be...a projectile based character.
If we can fix bombs we fix a lot of problems. I don't see why people would be hesitant unless its laziness.
With all the other **** B+ has done and how far they went to use PSA. I don't see why this step would be a problem. Bombs have been the one thing ALL Link mains have wanted since day one. I'd throw away 5 other buffs just to get bombs.
The main problem with Link is that we could never make him what he should be...a projectile based character.
If we can fix bombs we fix a lot of problems. I don't see why people would be hesitant unless its laziness.
With all the other **** B+ has done and how far they went to use PSA. I don't see why this step would be a problem. Bombs have been the one thing ALL Link mains have wanted since day one. I'd throw away 5 other buffs just to get bombs.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Fixed.
Seriously though, I've hard to cut back a lot on projectile tossing in Brawl/Brawl+ due to the friggin' horrid boomerang. It's not to say that I don't use it, but yeah. The fact that it typically barely tugs on people on the way inward is lame. I miss the mindgames of being having to watch behind them.
i believes cape took awayz that fair change (and jab too I believe) in his latest set (might as well be called Cape's Dailies).
i suppose if someone did all the dirty work of isolating the values of link's bombs in common3.pac, the WBR wouldn't mind giving Link his sexy bombs back.
i suppose if someone did all the dirty work of isolating the values of link's bombs in common3.pac, the WBR wouldn't mind giving Link his sexy bombs back.
TL;DR: Basic complains shared by most Link mains with exception at liking the fair change.You all saw Twilight Princess Link right? His range was amazing but whatever. I played Cape's set and "leik dat fair" since you can FF Fair to ****; I guess it's just me. That's the only buff I saw though. His jab is terrible. Change it back to vBrawl style because they are just horrendous now. I foresaw the fsmash and UpB nerfs (I miss UpB though
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Shadic
Alakadoof?
The push? It happens right when the boomerang starts to return, or at least when it slows down to head back. That's when the boomerang stops hurting people and starts having the wind.
Demacrez
Smash Journeyman
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Ah, I remember when I did that to one of my friends last year. And yes, he was Ike as well doing the same exact thing except on Frigate Orpheon.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
It was honestly the most lulzy kill I've ever gotten, too bad it was just a friendly.
XD
Like F.L.U.D.D. or water cannon (w/e Squirtle's water shooting thing is called), except you don't even have to charge it!!
Now I need to do it on a Marth that's charging his shield-breaker, and say "Marth did not expect this to happen".
btw Shadic, I've credited you for your explanation.
XD
Like F.L.U.D.D. or water cannon (w/e Squirtle's water shooting thing is called), except you don't even have to charge it!!
Now I need to do it on a Marth that's charging his shield-breaker, and say "Marth did not expect this to happen".
btw Shadic, I've credited you for your explanation.
Alphatron
Smash Champion
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- Aug 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,269
You can hex edit it. It's really that no one knows how to hex edit except for about 5-6 people. At least if the bombs were in Link's pac. file, they'd be easier to find. Hopefully, there's someone out there who can do it though. Ness yoyo, Samus' missles, and Mario's fireballs have all been hex edited by people.
Magus420
Smash Master
http://www.mediafire.com/?2yjlt0nxkfi
Try that out. Can't test it myself but you'll know if it worked. There might be more than one set of hitbox data for the bombs so try doing different stuff with them like letting them explode on their own or whatever. Also check ZSS' armor pieces if you could. Both his bombs and the suit pieces should have aura element.
EDIT: Yeah it works
Sterowent
Smash Ace
wow, you guys know what this means, right? Magus did something pretty special for everybody, hah.
zxeon
Smash Lord
Achievement Unlocked.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
w00t! Now I can't wait for the new Nightly.
You got to be kidding me..........did it really work!!!.............That's freaking great "Sobs in happiness" You are a truly gifted and talented person Magus.
I sincerly hope the WBR considers it for the next nightly. All of us Link players will be MORE than happy to help test if you want. Seems lots of the Links dislike what happened to him and I believe bombs will provide a burst of enthusiasm and support.
I sincerly hope the WBR considers it for the next nightly. All of us Link players will be MORE than happy to help test if you want. Seems lots of the Links dislike what happened to him and I believe bombs will provide a burst of enthusiasm and support.