Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]

[matt4300]

I like this idea. If it says... knocks them up and back it would set them up for a perfect F-Air. It would make KO set ups easier than BLARGH! KNOCK 'EM OFF EDGE AND SPAM D-TILT!!!1!!1



Could we also have the explosions a tad bigger? If possible... o.o



Here's hoping. Link already has a bad recovery so making it more... technical a la Snake style would benefit for him.

It was link style way before it was snake style.

But as cool as these changes would be I dont think the WBR are gonna let them fly... We are OWED bomb KB growth reduction though... that should have been in from the begining. It was just impossible to do.

I totaly remember your stance on link Jiang... back in what was it? febuary? march?

 

[Reidlos Toof]

Or...

They catch it. Because if they dodge it just right, they would actually catch any thrown item close by them. It doesn't need to pass, it just needs to be thrown to them.

... You can't catch items by spot dodging. Your argument makes no sense.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

... You can't catch items by spot dodging. Your argument makes no sense.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he meant air-dodging, which can be used to catch items.

And yes, Link was blowing himself up to recover long before Snake has. I mentioned that a while ago. No one remembers probabky, but it's k.

 

[zxeon]

What's a TUSM?

 

[Reidlos Toof]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he meant air-dodging, which can be used to catch items.

And yes, Link was blowing himself up to recover long before Snake has. I mentioned that a while ago. No one remembers probabky, but it's k.

Ok... That makes even LESS sense because you can ALREADY do that... >.>

 

[Demacrez]

Ok... That makes even LESS sense because you can ALREADY do that... >.>

Okay, in Melee, you could literally throw a bomb up and aerail Spin Attack into it to blow up. That gives you another recovery.

In Brawl, you can't do that because Sakurai thought that was too complicated for the masses so he took that out along with Smash Bros.'s soul.

Link's recovery sucks. Give me explody Spin Attack!

 

[Plum]

Link had a sweet recovery in Melee...
Not in the actual distance he went, because he's always been crap in that department... It was just a cool recovery.
Bomb jumps and boomerang jumps were awesome, and lets not forget how good his hookshot was when it could grab any part of the stage instead of the edge.

 

[Demacrez]

Plus it was three times longer than the one we have in Brawl.

 

[zxeon]

One wonders if someone could do something about that.

 

[Shadic]

Which part? The length, or where it attaches?

The second, I don't think is possible, unfortunately.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Anyone else think that Link's aerial Up-B could be changed? It doesn't always keep people off of him when he recovers, like I'd expect it to. It sorta weak hits them once then misses with the rest of the spin, so Link is open AGAIN for edgeguarding. I think it'd be cool if Link's Up-B was like his Smash 64 one, in that it'd hit the opponent once in the air, but it'd hit them pretty hard, pushing them away to a safe distance.

Cool idea?

 

[Shadic]

I think that's the only good think about Link's Aerial UpB in Smash64.

But yeah, I'd like it, but it changes how the move works, and I think we'd have trouble getting support for it.

 

[zxeon]

Trouble getting support how? We are all men aren't we?(aren't we?) If we all agree on something I'm sure we can push the motion through.

 

[BG3]

You guys suggested quite a list of buffs for Link, I wonder if any of them will come through? Hopefully, they will. I can't stand Link being a bad character anymore.

 

[matt4300]

You guys suggested quite a list of buffs for Link, I wonder if any of them will come through? Hopefully, they will. I can't stand Link being a bad character anymore.

did we? only things we are seriously looking as are: Faster IASA frames on jab... faster stronger better arrows. and bombs. Most of this other stuff is just thinking in the form of text lol. Atleast i hope it is

 

[Demacrez]

Oh no! We're gonna have God Link if the WBR goes through with all of them!!!

 

[BG3]

Link will be much more better and unique if all these changes were given to him. Plus, not any of the changes suggested seem to be OP or anything.

 

[Shadic]

Trouble getting support how? We are all men aren't we?(aren't we?) If we all agree on something I'm sure we can push the motion through.

Yes, but in my experience, the BR is extremely hesitant to change how a move works. However, they DID let you cancel out of Ganon's utilt for a nightly (Or two?) so maybe we can try and get it through.

Would other people agree with it? Making all the hits in his Aerial UpB the "strong" hit, even if it's just for a test?

Edit:
Question: If I were to take the 8-13 Nightly .pac for Link, and add in at least the changes that I can (Faster bow charging, IASA on jab, spin attack) would people be willing to give feedback? I'm fairly certain we'll get a new nightly in the next week or so, but this could help for testing some changes.

Unfortunately, I lack the ability to edit bombs or arrows directly.

 

[zxeon]

The WBR is gonna tell us how to play Link? A laughable idea. We're committed to making Link the best he can be like Most Sonic mains are brassbound in their desire to keep sonic a waste of roster space.

Spoiler

I'm just poking some fun sonic mains. I don't mean it

I'm in favor of testing aerial UpB strong hits.

 

[Shadic]

I increased the Bow Charge Speed 1.2x normal, and I'm just about done with the UpB change. It took a LOT of testing.

Edit: Quick Question. Just realized that his UpB only hits in front of him, should that be changed? Or just the angle/KB changes?

Edit2: Bah, fine. Here it is. The hitbox size/locations on the UpB are EXACTLY the same as they were before. Only the damage, angle, shield-damage, base and growth knockback were changes.

Download here. Updated 10:28PM, 9/5 Pacific time.

Changes:
Bow Charges 1.2x normal
Jab Cancel should be easier
Aerial UpB reworked, strong hits through entire move.

 

[Demacrez]

Um, my god. Aerial Up-B is godly. I tested on a Mario dummy and I was able to KO it from the middle of FD in the air with one hit by Up-B. Not only that but when I was recovering in Smashville, I hit Wario from the ledge and sent him flying from across the stage and KO'ed him. I believe he was at 120% to 150% but I can't recount.

Maybe get rid of growth for aerial Up-B because I really like the move how it is. But the semi-spike on it just makes it way too deadly.

 

[MK26]

Y'know, theyre probably gonna get rid of the aerial up-b gravity alteration (aka it goes higher) in exchange for super-powerful hits...

In other news, i like Link.

 

[Demacrez]

If they're gonna do that, might as well add the bomb jumps as well. His recovery is a spot off from being good and nerfing the height will just make it worse.

But if they add in the bomb jumping for Link then I wouldn't mind it.

 

[zxeon]

Holy ****, I didn't know PACs were so big. I'm gonna give this a try but from what I hear the KB might be too much.

 

[Demacrez]

It's pretty much "lol, you at 80? " smack them close to the edge, follow up with an Up-B and it KO's them. XD

 

[zxeon]

Yeah, It definitely has too much damage and knockback. If you can hit someone with an UpB at low percentages you can combo them for 42%.

Drop the damage and the knockback and we'll see where we are. I'd give it a go myself but I have no idea how to use PSA.

 

[Shadic]

Are they DIing inwards? Because I cranked up the base KB quite a bit to prevent it from comboing into multiple strikes.

The damage is only because it's doing multiple hits. It's at 14% per whack, I believe, so it stacks quickly if they're being hit by it more than once.

Also, one hit KO? There's no way that should be happening. *Looks into it*

 

[Demacrez]

Having that huge spike on it makes it deadly in the air. I don't know how many hits it does but each one of those is a deadly strike ready to hit. I mean, the KB growth is there so it makes it even deadlier. Plus it has multi-hit, same damage, and KB throughout the whole aerial making it a floaty's nightmare.

Though, we can all over look this... can we? <.<

 

[Shadic]

You all have the .pac, so go for it.

However, I don't think it works well as a move with multiple hitboxes appearing. I may just tie it to one swing, and lower the KB Growth on it a bit, and call it a day. Because right now, I have it at EIGHTY BKB, and 10 KBG, and it's still able to multi-hit Bowser if you have a running start.

Edit: Updated it, works much better now. However, there's only one round of hitboxes, but it lasts the entire move. Shouldn't kill very well, but works great for keeping people off you during his UpB. Well, it won't kill unless you knock them into the stage and they don't tech it, but then that's their fault, isn't it?

Download link (Pun!) here.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I'm surprised at how many people took interest in my idea about changing Link's aerial Up-B. Surprised, but I'm liking what I hear. It keeping people away, strong in the air or not.

 

[Shadic]

Did you try the .pac? I'm pretty confident that the values set on it are pretty good, maybe I could lower the BKB, and increase the KBG slightly, so that it could actually kill at a reasonable percent, but it's sort of a fast starting move with a hitbox that covers a lot of ground, so I'm slightly hesitant about that.

Smash64 Link was my favorite, so just about any feature of his (Besides the HORRID recovery) is something to consider in my book. I miss the Boomerang, and the Dash Attack, especially.

 

[matt4300]

VERY nice on the up-b shadic... and the fact that its something he had before makes it awsome and less weird AND it gives him another difference to TL (btw... there buffing TLs up-b height over on TL thread lol). Love it.
I need a human to test the IASA on jab... everyones asleep right now though...
I can barely tell with the arrow speed up, but I guess its good... It just needs the KB to it.

everything is in place but the bombs and Arrow KB buff. Link hopfully wont need anything eles after this mess... Hope we can get this worked out in time for the next nightly release.

Way to ruin the link head avatar line RPGsFtw >_>'


WAIT!!!!! I just had a much better than the faster IASA for JCs ... The point of buffing this area at all is to make JC gaurnteed... The problem with the JCs isent the speed ... Its the fact that you can DI them Up(small chars) down(big chars) and escape the followup.. makeing it worthless on someone with any DI knowledge. SOoooo instead of makeing it faster just decrease the ability to DI using PSA! Problem solved.

 

[Swordplay]

WAIT!!!!! I just had a much better than the faster IASA for JCs ... The point of buffing this area at all is to make JC gaurnteed... The problem with the JCs isent the speed ... Its the fact that you can DI them Up(small chars) down(big chars) and escape the followup.. makeing it worthless on someone with any DI knowledge. SOoooo instead of makeing it faster just decrease the ability to DI using PSA! Problem solved.

Interesting, PSA has never been used like that to my knowledge so I have no clue how it would turn out.


If we didn't have the IASA. The best alternative I could think of would be to change the angle of the jab. If the 2nd jab had an angle of say 95-105 to bring in a little bit more. It would hinder people from DIing up as they don't start as high as well as down and away because they will be closer to Link.


What I would worry about at this point is them DIing towards link and getting behind him thus punishing him. Then again it would be a race to see if Link got punished of if he could spin attack to cover his behind fast enough.


IASA is probably the best way.

 

[shanus]

We do a lot of stuff with DI and SDI and hitlag swordplay, youll see in the next set

 

[zxeon]

I love the new UpB good work Shadic and a good idea RPGsFTW's part.

Can you spill the beans on some of the Link changes in the next set shanus? It's not like Brawl+ is a covert operation. A little head-up on Link changes would be appreciated, that way we can get a head start on things we might have an issue with. Gameplay related issues of course. I won't bore you with gripes about things that don't "feel" right for the character like those Sonic mains. If it works it works.

Spoiler

Don't four stock me Sonic mains lol

 

[matt4300]

I love the new UpB good work Shadic and a good idea RPGsFTW's part.

Can you spill the beans on some of the Link changes in the next set shanus? It's not like Brawl+ is a covert operation. A little head-up on Link changes would be appreciated, that way we can get a head start on things we might have an issue with. Gameplay related issues of course. I won't bore you with gripes about things that don't "feel" right for the character like those Sonic mains. If it works it works.

Spoiler

Don't four stock me Sonic mains lol

QFT If we knew what we were dealing with we could debate and see if there are any objections or problems... And fix it before the next nightly even comes out wich would save alot of time. Then again there might not be any problems... but Most mains know whats comeing next build... Ive noticed more than one time you guys hinting at bowser and link changes without actually giveing any details...

 

[Shadic]

I'm going to try changing the Fair to work more like the 64 counterpart - Slightly more damage on each hit, but they don't connect anymore - The first hit is strong as well.

Only a few people liked the idea the first time I brought it up, but whatever, you can test if you'd like, I think it's an AWESOME idea.

 

[Demacrez]

Sounds iffy. But I'll try it out and see how it goes. Though, I like how F-Air is.

 

[Shadic]

It's pretty easy to it, and it sucks against characters on the ground, unless they're huge.

Having a small problem with it double-hitting Bowser at the moment, trying to up the BaseKB a bit.

Edit: Okay, it's up.
Changes:
Bow Charge from 1.2x to 1.333x normal. (Definitely noticeable!)
SDI multiplier from 1.0 to .5 on Second Jab
Fair reworked, overall KB slightly down (Only one hitbox!), starts slightly slower, speeds up after hitbox appears, should be the exact same length as the original.

 

[zxeon]

I don't think Bowser will ever be safe from double pwn Fair. How much does it matter if the move completely wrecks one character?