Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]

Swordplay · Sep 9, 2009

This thread is a good connection to bring important prominent posts to SWF......

However, if you didn't notice we have our own character boards on AIB NOW!!!!!!!

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/forum.aspx?fid=360

Im promoting this because its awesome and we get multiple threads. For double awesomeness, Oddler has already set up most of the threads we need. GO AND POST WITH AWESOME GRACE.

(We really should expand to AIB) this thread always seems to get cluttered and is very popular in comparison 43 pages. This could be useful.

I suggest an announcement of these new forums go in the OP.

zxeon · Sep 11, 2009

We need to get WBR people in here to make sure these changes make it into the next set.

Shadic · Sep 11, 2009

I messaged Shanus, linking him to the post. He didn't respond though. (He rarely does.)

RPGsFTW · Sep 11, 2009

I forgot to say, but excellent job on the Link changes.

The aerial Up-B fits nicely *grins* and his jab + arrow changes are nice little things too.

BG3 · Sep 11, 2009

RPGsFTW said:
I forgot to say, but excellent job on the Link changes.

The aerial Up-B fits nicely *grins* and his jab + arrow changes are nice little things too.

Nice enough to become almost pernament?

RPGsFTW · Sep 11, 2009

BG3 said:
Nice enough to become almost pernament?

I'd like that. The aerial Up-B at least...

Shadic · Sep 11, 2009

We just got confirmation that the Link build for the next "Nightly" (Monthly?) is similar to what I've done. So, I guess expect most of the changes that we wanted.

zxeon · Sep 11, 2009

I'd like to see the changes myself.

matt4300 · Sep 11, 2009

Hopefully that includes Arrow KB changes as well. At the speed we have them at theres still no point to them without other changes.

OH btw shadic... can you post a new pac with everything but that Fair... I still have yet to try out the 3333.3.3. (whatever) arrow speed. ^_^

Shadic · Sep 11, 2009

I could, but I dunno if it's worth it, considering we're likely to a new set before Monday.

matt4300 · Sep 12, 2009

Shadic said:
I could, but I dunno if it's worth it, considering we're likely to a new set before Monday.

Oh, I was thinking by soon they ment in a week-ish... but yeh dont worry about it then.

shanus · Sep 12, 2009

The only change I'm not terribly happy with is the upB change. It just looks kind of ugly and is begging to have connections, but here is a copy of your changelist:

Code:

Link
	Arrow:
		-1.333x Animation Speed Starting Frame 0 (subaction 1CE).
		-KBG to 60 from 50, BKB to 20 from 7
	Jab1:
		-SDI multiplier to .8x from 1x
	Jab2:
		-RA-Bit[17] Set True at 16 frames (From 18)
		-Allow Interrupt at 17 frames (From 20)
	Dash Attack:
		-Priority of hitboxes changed from 10>12>11>11 to 12>11>11>10. 12 dmg hit should now go through again when both the 10 and 12 dmg hitboxes connect
	U-Tilt:
		-Full move frame speed change replaced with equivalent IASA adjustment of 36->33 to avoid interfering with hitbox window
	Grab (Standing):
		-Frame speed change pushed back 2 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.500x Frame 19] Old:[1.500x Frame 17]
	Grab (Dash):
		-Frame speed change pushed back 2 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.800x Frame 21] Old:[1.800x Frame 19]
	Grab (Turn):
		-Frame speed change pushed back 4 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.900x Frame 21] Old:[1.900x Frame 17]
	Up-B (Ground):
		-Speedup adjusted to avoid interfering with hitbox window. New:[1.500x Frame 1; 1.000x Frame 11]; Old:[1.500x Frame 1; 1.000x Frame 12]
		-Damage of strong up-b ground hit raised by 4 (12->16 hitboxes A-B; 9->13 hitbox C). KBG scaled to match previous knockback (72->54 hitboxes A-B; 72->50 hitbox C)
	Up-B (Air; Hits 1-4):
		-SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.80x
		-DMG to 14 from 4, Angle to 169, KBG to 2D from 64, BKB to 80 from 0
		-Final hit, DMG to 17 from 4, Angle to 169, KBG to 40 from 64, BKB to 80 from 0

SymphonicSage12 · Sep 12, 2009

did I just see a damage raise from 4 to 17!?!?!? that's kinda op!!!!

Shadic · Sep 12, 2009

Sweet, most of what we asked for. No bomb changes kinda sucks, but I'm pretty sure that was a knowledge limit. And no bow damage increase, but we'll see - Probably compensated purely by the speed change.

Thanks much, Shanus.

Edit:

SymphonicSage12 said:
did I just see a damage raise from 4 to 17!?!?!? that's kinda op!!!!

Learn how the move works. It's no longer multi-hit, and did that much (If not moreso) through the entire move. Now it just hits once, and hard.

SymphonicSage12 · Sep 12, 2009

Oh...... but why did you make it one hit?

Shadic · Sep 12, 2009

Because Link mains are more creative than looking at Melee when requesting character tweaks.

Seriously though, it's because you can get punished for hitting with it, it's further differentiates Link from Toon Link, it's how the move worked in Smash64, and has the potential to have some decent follow-ups into it. And, if the most common theory for air priority is correct, it'll up that, as well.

Oh, and awesome potential. Definitely that.

SymphonicSage12 · Sep 12, 2009

I see.

Although I can't really critique these changes until the new build is released....

Shadic · Sep 12, 2009

We've put up three test .pacs already. That's how we determined what to keep and what to get rid of. (I suggested a Fair change, but it wasn't very popular)

matt4300 · Sep 12, 2009

shanus said:

The only change I'm not terribly happy with is the upB change. It just looks kind of ugly and is begging to have connections, but here is a copy of your changelist:

Code:

Link
	Arrow:
		-1.333x Animation Speed Starting Frame 0 (subaction 1CE).
		-KBG to 60 from 50, BKB to 20 from 7
	Jab1:
		-SDI multiplier to .8x from 1x
	Jab2:
		-RA-Bit[17] Set True at 16 frames (From 18)
		-Allow Interrupt at 17 frames (From 20)
	Dash Attack:
		-Priority of hitboxes changed from 10>12>11>11 to 12>11>11>10. 12 dmg hit should now go through again when both the 10 and 12 dmg hitboxes connect
	U-Tilt:
		-Full move frame speed change replaced with equivalent IASA adjustment of 36->33 to avoid interfering with hitbox window
	Grab (Standing):
		-Frame speed change pushed back 2 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.500x Frame 19] Old:[1.500x Frame 17]
	Grab (Dash):
		-Frame speed change pushed back 2 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.800x Frame 21] Old:[1.800x Frame 19]
	Grab (Turn):
		-Frame speed change pushed back 4 frames to not interfere with grab window. New:[1.900x Frame 21] Old:[1.900x Frame 17]
	Up-B (Ground):
		-Speedup adjusted to avoid interfering with hitbox window. New:[1.500x Frame 1; 1.000x Frame 11]; Old:[1.500x Frame 1; 1.000x Frame 12]
		-Damage of strong up-b ground hit raised by 4 (12->16 hitboxes A-B; 9->13 hitbox C). KBG scaled to match previous knockback (72->54 hitboxes A-B; 72->50 hitbox C)
	Up-B (Air; Hits 1-4):
		-SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.80x
		-DMG to 14 from 4, Angle to 169, KBG to 2D from 64, BKB to 80 from 0
		-Final hit, DMG to 17 from 4, Angle to 169, KBG to 40 from 64, BKB to 80 from 0

@o@ HOLY ****! Thats so awesome.... We got everything! To bad about bombs but w/e we got more than I expected. Can't wait to test the JC and Arrows.

Thanks for posting shannus!

Anyone eles get that Ken Ryu feeling from Link and Tlink? Tlink is faster with lots of multi hit moves and Link is slower with 1 hit powerful moves. (and ken is better than ryu in Sf4)

zxeon · Sep 12, 2009

Thanks a bunch shanus those changes look great.

By the way Shadic the Fair change was good maybe too good. After playing with Double Raep Fair I noticed it over centralized Link's air game. I noticed a Few days in I wasn't using Dair at all anymore. Every situation Dair was good for Fair did better and there is nothing wrong with that but I like Link's signature Dair and the way it looks. Sometimes even I side with aesthetics. Link doesn't need two moves to do the same thing (I'm willing to let Wolf corner that market)so my vote goes to Dair to preserve the sexiness in the tradition of Link.

Uair and Fair are the same move. All you Wolf mains know it's true. :V

Demacrez · Sep 12, 2009

matt4300 said:
Anyone eles get that Ken Ryu feeling from Link and Tlink? Tlink is faster with lots of multi hit moves and Link is slower with 1 hit powerful moves. (and ken is better than ryu in Sf4)

Tell that to the champion of the world of SFIV. He plays Ryu.

Oh on the changes. All the changes look good but the KB nerf on ground Up-B made me sad but I understood it.

SymphonicSage12 · Sep 12, 2009

It was a kb nerf; it was a knockback compensation.

matt4300 · Sep 12, 2009

SymphonicSage12 said:
It was a kb nerf; it was a knockback compensation.

meaning that it was nerfed to compensate for the added kb that 16 damage brings? or..... sooooo it still kills around 120 right?

SymphonicSage12 · Sep 12, 2009

matt4300 said:
meaning that it was nerfed to compensate for the added kb that 16 damage brings? or..... sooooo it still kills around 120 right?

yep, because when you add damage, it directly adds KB. so the "KB" was nerfed to compensate for the added damage. It should kill around the same percent.

Swordplay · Sep 12, 2009

Yea matt....

I must say that I was disappointed that gold was decided to be released before we could get a code for bombs. Hopefully the the community won't give up on the code just because gold is out.

Edit: O really............zxeon

zxeon · Sep 12, 2009

That's just Chibo and his time traveling. The next release won't be gold Chibo made a mistake.

shanus · Sep 13, 2009

So I re-did the upB to make it link better into a final hit as the one hit version is just so ugly (and actually rewards bad spacing even on a back hit).

Also, if you SDI down and away on a low hit earlier on, they can actually tech pretty soon and punish you for it. Needless to say, I'm much happier with the connecting version into a **** last hit.

Shadic · Sep 13, 2009

Shanus got the 666th ~~post~~ reply. Satan, you.

And alright, I guess that's acceptable. Did you improve the last hit? You called it ****, but I'm not really certain.

I guess we'll have to see it, but I think most of the Link mains liked the hard hit. We'll see? :\

zxeon · Sep 13, 2009

I debugged the UpB with shanus and at the center of the stage Battlefield No DI UpB kills Marth at 130% and not percent sooner. You have to catch them with the highest part of the attack, the lower half and the dead spot where Link is will cause you to lose your consecutive hits.

Also shadic I think you made a mistake on the bow speed up you might want to double check if the speed up was working.

Shadic · Sep 13, 2009

On my test .pac? I know it works. It's hardly noticeable on the 1.2x version, but you can definitely see it at 1.33.

shanus · Sep 14, 2009

Yes I buffed the last hit, and it hits like a truck.

Shell · Sep 14, 2009

Killing 125-135 may not quite be a truck, but it is definitely awesome. While the percent may seem high, you'd be surprised how often Link can set up for it.

I played with it last night and I pulled off several kills with it, including SHFFL'd Uair to Up-B and Dash attack to Up-B. My opponent wasn't great with SDI, though, so I can't comment on how the new linking between attacks works, but it looks good.

Honestly, this in conjunction with the Up-B dmg buff is far more effective than the old dair and d-tilt. Get hyped.

matt4300 · Sep 14, 2009

SHeLL said:
Killing 125-135 may not quite be a truck, but it is definitely awesome. While the percent may seem high, you'd be surprised how often Link can set up for it.

I played with it last night and I pulled off several kills with it, including SHFFL'd Uair to Up-B and Dash attack to Up-B. My opponent wasn't great with SDI, though, so I can't comment on how the new linking between attacks works, but it looks good.

Honestly, this in conjunction with the Up-B dmg buff is far more effective than the old dair and d-tilt. Get hyped.

Don't worry man... We are quite Hyped.... Mabye to hyped X_X

Me and zxeon are gonna *** so hard when this set is out... its gonna be hard to play.:embarrass

Shadic · Sep 14, 2009

shanus said:
Yes I buffed the last hit, and it hits like a truck.

I suggested that like, forever ago. :laugh:

Glad to see it in now. Can't wait.

SmashBrosForce · Sep 14, 2009

These recent changes seem very good.

I recently started to play with Link, cause he is being very viable and he is a great character which deserves to shine in Brawl+.

I liked these Arrow changes.

About bombs, is sad to see that nothing has changed.

SymphonicSage12 · Sep 14, 2009

we don't have the ability to change them yet. >.>

RPGsFTW · Sep 14, 2009

Just to be sure since I don't understand too much of the number differences in the changelist, I know BKB, KBG, etc, I have a quick question.

Shanus, did your change to the aerial Up-B make it any less ridiculous? I know I thought it was a great idea in the first place, and thanks to Shadic, since I don't edit characters myself, he was able to make my idea a reality, it just seemed like it was a little too effective at killing people off stage. My friend, FrozenFlare, a Link main, would drop from the ledge to aerial Up-B his opponents on the ledge and off stage all the time. He had gotten kills as early as 20%.

My friend, Timbers, a Fox, main also felt like Link's attacks all combo'd into each other a little too easily. Possibly because he plays Fox. >_>

I was just wondering about the adjustments to the aerial Up-B. Hoping that it's both strong, but not too ridiculous sometimes.

Swordplay · Sep 15, 2009

Link videos.

Me Vs. Jekyl who has a **** ganon....like 15 mins earlier, I put these up for some of the combo's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lZqC3lLuJo&feature=PlayList&p=5650BF6E6FF8D7C9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwVzkLaI2aY&feature=PlayList&p=5650BF6E6FF8D7C9&index=0

Edit: Actually it is pretty bad shadic....I was playing like VB (understandable considering I played BB 15 mins before that match)

my real offline style is much different than that....It include a lot of Nair>jab cancel.....

Shadic · Sep 15, 2009

Not bad, SP.

Anybody wanna collect a bunch of stuff I should put in the OP? I'm gonna do a big update when we get the new release.

matt4300 · Sep 16, 2009

Shadic said:
Not bad, SP.

Anybody wanna collect a bunch of stuff I should put in the OP? I'm gonna do a big update when we get the new release.

ill help ... what do ya need?

Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Alakadoof?

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Alakadoof?

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Alakadoof?

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Alakadoof?

Smash Master

Alakadoof?

Smash Master

Alakadoof?

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Alakadoof?

Smash Lord

Alakadoof?

Smash Hero

Flute-Fox Only

Smash Ace

Alakadoof?

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Alakadoof?

Smash Ace

Information

Network