Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]

[Shell]

You guys should relax. You are blowing things out of proportion, just keep your eyes out for the next nightly.

 

[matt4300]

You guys should relax. You are blowing things out of proportion, just keep your eyes out for the next nightly.

Hazzah! thanks man... I didnet know whether anything was being done or not ^_^.

 

[Demacrez]

You guys should relax. You are blowing things out of proportion, just keep your eyes out for the next nightly.

What are you talking about?! OF COURSE I'M RELAXED!!! WHY WOULDN'T I BE??!!

 

[SmashBrosForce]

Hey guys

The combo [Dash Attack -> Utilt -> Utilt -> Uair] can be useful ?

 

[Shadic]

You guys should relax. You are blowing things out of proportion, just keep your eyes out for the next nightly.

I think it's because Link was overestimated for... Basically forever by the SBR, until we got some changes making him viable.

Then random, he gets nerfed... I think we were worried that were just going to call him done and ignore us, or something.

 

[PKNintendo]

Until we can edit props were stuck but arrows can be reworked imo.

Boomerange length needs a majooooor increase I agree.
It's like Sakurai thought of every trick in the book to make Link worse.

If you guys argued your point enough then maybe you can get 1 or 2 of Links nerf's removed.
(lIke the dtilt)

Good thing WBR is on the job. (I hope)

 

[MagmarFire]

And the boomerang's return needs hitstun. :3

[/dreaming]

Still, if a bunch of Link's combos are trash just because they're easily DIable, then I don't see how that can't be fixed. Ness's PK Fire was made harder to DI out of, right? Can't Link's moves be fixed in a similar fashion? I'm assuming they can't because the mechanics are very different...

But hey, I can dream.

 

[Demacrez]

Or give the wind effect damage dealing, makes it more useful than just an inconvenience.

Or give his D-Smash a vertical spike? At the tip or base?

 

[Dokutayuu]

I haven't had a chance to try the latest Nightly (curse PAL!) but I'm guessing it didn't benefit Link.

 

[matt4300]

I haven't had a chance to try the latest Nightly (curse PAL!) but I'm guessing it didn't benefit Link.

Naw, they nerfed 2 of his best moves. One was the Dtilt spike... wich was situational but when it hit it was- onstage: a free hit Offstage: almost insta death. But really its just harder to use now.

They also nerfed his Dair landing lag... Wich makes it more punishable (yay more punishable moves for link!) Wich pretty much makes it a bad choice for getting to the ground... and tech chases... agin it just made it harder to use, But hurt his game none the less.

Not to worry though... I now know for a fact that they are buffing him next nightly. It could be 2 of three things... Spin attack damage to 16-17? More KB arrows... (I still dont know why they wont make them faster) and faster IASA frames on Jabing. So JCs can't be DIed.

 

[Dokutayuu]

Dtilt was pretty fun. I guess I can live with it being harder to use. 35% to 50% can't be too bad for ALR but I haven't seen it for myself yet ^^.

I use Spin attack as a finisher so I don't know what adding damage would do to it. Faster IASA frames sound nice though.

 

[Shadic]

You know, after watching the Link section in This, I honestly think the KB buff they put on the arrows could be very interesting. I know there's the argument that they wouldn't force get-ups anymore, but I think the KO/gimp potential of them would be worth it.

 

[matt4300]

You know, after watching the Link section in This, I honestly think the KB buff they put on the arrows could be very interesting. I know there's the argument that they wouldn't force get-ups anymore, but I think the KO/gimp potential of them would be worth it.

It still dosent look entirely usefull... and its damage is still the lowest for its speed in the game.

 

[Shadic]

So put a damage buff on it as well?

 

[Dokutayuu]

That would be pretty interesting. I don't really use arrows as much as the other two projectiles so even just the knockback might make them more useful.

We could always beg for a vB MK d-smash ^^.

 

[Shadic]

Yeah, I hardly use arrows at all. I think they were much more useful in Melee.

Then again, same with the boomerang. But I don't think we'll get the Melee (Or even better - Smash64) boomerang back with Link.

It's the one thing I really like about Toon Link. Thing does like, 11% too.

 

[Swordplay]

Well. I probably over-emphasized the cons of buffing arrow KB.

When you think about it, jab locks are gone so arrows cant even go to jab locks just get ups which mostly result from the boomerang.

With arrows, you would substitute this for arrow tech chases instead of get ups. Not to mention, arrows would be a significant tool offstage finally giving Link the uniqueness he deserves to improve the gameplay in this area.

It is a tradeoff and probably a positive one for Link. It would need testing but the idea is good and I should not have harped on it from the beggining.

 

[Demacrez]

Thank you! KB arrows FTW! :D

 

[matt4300]

Thank you! KB arrows FTW! :D

I dont know man.... Arrows haveing higher KB just makes them like a long range rang... all 3 of his projectiles will be slow hit boxes that knock the enemy over, or away rather. Which is why I suggested and tested faster arrow... Something to control the stage better. More Kb will really only be usefull off stage for gimping the chars that link already gimps well with other moves. While faster arrows gives him a safe combo finisher/forced getup/semi spam. Not only that but faster arrows mean faster charge time wich MEANS more damage AND kb arrows.

just think about it guys... faster charge time will give you the benifits of both the old arrows + the benifits of more damage AND more KB wich is all more KB arrows will give.

 

[Demacrez]

But doesn't Link already have stage control? Trying to implement an attack that consists of charging even with faster charge wouldn't do much.

Giving KB to his arrows for things such as edge guarding would benefit to an already weak game.

 

[zxeon]

Even with the speed boost the arrows will still need a damage or KB boost (or both lets not set artificial limits on this) because the knockback is shiit. At their current speed you'll need a half a stage's worth of daylight between you and your opponent if you plan on pestering them with an arrow and not taking a hit.

 

[Shadic]

I think a small boost all-around for the arrows would be the best. A KB that makes them worth it, damage boost to suit the time they take, and able to charge faster, so we can actually fire them a distance further than that of a DACUS.

 

[matt4300]

I think a small boost all-around for the arrows would be the best. A KB that makes them worth it, damage boost to suit the time they take, and able to charge faster, so we can actually fire them a distance further than that of a DACUS.

Hazzah compromise ftw! It is probley the ****test projectile in the game. The damage it does right now is a joke for its speed and KB. It does as much as getting tapped by a diddy banana or a snake nade... Its sad...

Small alround speed up (like half of what zxeons was) Small damage boost from 4-12 to 6-15? and small KB boost (dont really have an opinion on the KB... The damage is a given... Its damage makes no sense... but the rest is up to the WBR I guess.

 

[Shadic]

Probably 3/4ths the growth that is seen in that video, I'd have to watch it again to really see, but it seems a bit extreme. Especially if it came with a speedup.

So yeah, there's not one thing that's wrong with the bow. It's quite frankly, everything.

Edit: Actually, the bow buff from BBrawl isn't as pronounced as I thought. Maybe even doing their exact buff, with a small KB increase, and charging slightly faster. (Brawl+ is a much faster game, and the bow was slow even in Brawl.)

 

[matt4300]

HOLY ****!!! Magus found a way to edit nesses yoyos... This MAY mean editing bombs! hopefully.

 

[zxeon]

We can only hope.

 

[Demacrez]

Is Magus some sort of god in disguise that helps poor Smash programmers when they're at a dead end?

 

[Dokutayuu]

Is Magus some sort of god in disguise that helps poor Smash programmers when they're at a dead end?

Most likely. If it works on bombs, it'll do wonders. Then they'll set our ALR to 90%.

 

[Shadic]

And nerf UpB or something.

Let's hope the next nightly will have what we want/need, and then they'll leave him alone.

 

[Swordplay]

Bombs Bombs Bombs Bombs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ill Do Anything For Bombs

(I'm so hyped right now)

 

[zxeon]

How about some Boomerang hax? 10% per second. That'll teach them to ride my whirlwind. Wait, can't this already be done?

 

[Demacrez]

I say have damaging winds!

 

[Reidlos Toof]

I'm sure this will have been mentioned before, but who else thinks that bombs need to be reworked NOW? Links bombs have NEVER exploded on throw in any of the LoZ games and it is ******** that they do in Smash. I think that they need to be reworked so that they can be thrown and land on the ground, and explode on contact with people/items. This would probably be best worked by giving the bombs the landing property of diddy's bananas (because they shouldn't bounce on land like snake's grenades) and the explode on contact property of Snake's Down Smash.

 

[kr3wman]

Smash 64's Link's boomerang I say.

 

[Demacrez]

I'm sure this will have been mentioned before, but who else thinks that bombs need to be reworked NOW? Links bombs have NEVER exploded on throw in any of the LoZ games and it is ******** that they do in Smash. I think that they need to be reworked so that they can be thrown and land on the ground, and explode on contact with people/items. This would probably be best worked by giving the bombs the landing property of diddy's bananas (because they shouldn't bounce on land like snake's grenades) and the explode on contact property of Snake's Down Smash.

You've clearly never played Majora's Mask. If you had the decency to actually run and throw the bombs at an enemy, you'd realize that the bomb explodes on impact.

Nerfing Link's bomb game would just be the MOST idiotic adjustment to him. We want to make Link's bomb game better, NOT WORSE! Snake can keep his grenades as they are because he has MORE THAN ONE EXPLOSIVE WEAPON! He has a plethora of bombardment weapons at his disposale while Link only has one.

Another thing, Link's bombs, in all Zelda games I've played, have bounced when tossed. Not sit there like a bump on a log waiting to go off.

Another 'nother thing (I'm actually reading down the list as I type this), why make the bombs freakin' proximity mines? Link's not Snake. He's Link. Hero of ****ing Hyrule. Not espionage secret agent Snake.

Though that would be an interesting Link.

 

[Shadic]

Smash 64's Link's boomerang I say.

Smash64 had the best boomerang ever.

I'm sure this will have been mentioned before, but who else thinks that bombs need to be reworked NOW? Links bombs have NEVER exploded on throw in any of the LoZ games and it is ******** that they do in Smash. I think that they need to be reworked so that they can be thrown and land on the ground, and explode on contact with people/items. This would probably be best worked by giving the bombs the landing property of diddy's bananas (because they shouldn't bounce on land like snake's grenades) and the explode on contact property of Snake's Down Smash.

While I agree that it's kind of dumb that they explode when hitting the ground, it's been a staple of Link's in all three games. The only thing wrong with bombs now would be the dumb knockback they have, and the fact that they don't hit eachother/Link. Want bombjumb.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

You've clearly never played Majora's Mask. If you had the decency to actually run and throw the bombs at an enemy, you'd realize that the bomb explodes on impact.

Nerfing Link's bomb game would just be the MOST idiotic adjustment to him. We want to make Link's bomb game better, NOT WORSE! Snake can keep his grenades as they are because he has MORE THAN ONE EXPLOSIVE WEAPON! He has a plethora of bombardment weapons at his disposale while Link only has one.

Another thing, Link's bombs, in all Zelda games I've played, have bounced when tossed. Not sit there like a bump on a log waiting to go off.

Another 'nother thing (I'm actually reading down the list as I type this), why make the bombs freakin' proximity mines? Link's not Snake. He's Link. Hero of ****ing Hyrule. Not espionage secret agent Snake.

Though that would be an interesting Link.

Did you even read the second sentence? I said that bombs should explode when they hit people or items, just like they do in most zeldas where you can throw them. I think that they shouldn't explode when they hit the ground or walls, but should explode if anyone touches them when they are on the ground. Also, Link's bombs in Zelda more roll then bounce, but I don't know if that is possible to edit that way since no item in the game acts that way. The last thing I want to do is Nerf link, I think that this kind of mod would be a serious improvement (imagine an oponent dodging a bomb only for it to land at their feet and wait for their dodge to end and then exploding on them)

 

[Demacrez]

Or...

They catch it. Because if they dodge it just right, they would actually catch any thrown item close by them. It doesn't need to pass, it just needs to be thrown to them.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I'd also like some adjustment to bombs:

-Set knockback to be a bit more constant. Doesn't grow as much. This would allow Link to follow up on any successful bomb attempts, even at higher percents, and continue the trend of Link's metagame which involves well placed setups ala Smash64.
-Make it so that bombs deal a good amount shieldstun/shielddamage when they hit a shield. This would help Link's pressuring game. As of now, they bounce off and do absolutely Either making them bounce off, or explode on contact would be fine. But if it bounced off and actually landed on the floor, it would also add another dimension to Link's spacing game and help him keep enemies on their toes even more when dealing with his projectiles.
-Make it so that bombs can be used for bomb jumping. This simply involves making it so that Link's bombs aren't "teamed" to him, allowing him to hit them in midair. This is important, and something I've wanted for a while, but we haven't had the means to do it. Hopefully PSA will answer our calls.

 

[Demacrez]

I'd also like some adjustment to bombs:

-Set knockback to be a bit more constant. Doesn't grow as much. This would allow Link to follow up on any successful bomb attempts, even at higher percents, and continue the trend of Link's metagame which involves well placed setups ala Smash64.

I like this idea. If it says... knocks them up and back it would set them up for a perfect F-Air. It would make KO set ups easier than BLARGH! KNOCK 'EM OFF EDGE AND SPAM D-TILT!!!1!!1

-Make it so that bombs deal a good amount shieldstun/shielddamage when they hit a shield. This would help Link's pressuring game. As of now, they bounce off and do absolutely Either making them bounce off, or explode on contact would be fine. But if it bounced off and actually landed on the floor, it would also add another dimension to Link's spacing game and help him keep enemies on their toes even more when dealing with his projectiles.

Could we also have the explosions a tad bigger? If possible... o.o

-Make it so that bombs can be used for bomb jumping. This simply involves making it so that Link's bombs aren't "teamed" to him, allowing him to hit them in midair. This is important, and something I've wanted for a while, but we haven't had the means to do it. Hopefully PSA will answer our calls.

Here's hoping. Link already has a bad recovery so making it more... technical a la Snake style would benefit for him.