Link Match-up Thread

[Problem2]

I believe that at low percent, a boomerang won't send them into tumble and they'll have brief landing lag that you can grab if well timed. I get a lot of grabs off of weak boomerangs, but I've missed a few before, so it needs more testing to see how "real" it is.

 

[EmptySky00]

It works but it's a judgment call. I ****ing love reverse hit crossup bair into grab. Feels so awesome to pull off. And it looks good. That's the important part.

 

[Pug]

What is the meaning of "crossup"?

 

[Problem2]

In traditional fighters, a cross-up is where you jump at them to where it is ambiguous if you are attacking their front side or back side. I'm not exactly sure what he means by cross-up in this context, but I'm assuming he starts out in front of the enemy and short hops towards them, b-airing in the opposite direction, then eventually landing behind them.

 

[EmptySky00]

I mean when you jump facing at them and bair and hit them with the part of the hitbox in front of your body and it hits them at a really neat and convenient angle right in front of you.

 

[NickRiddle]

Not really, Link can't grab people in the air, I haven't found a reliable setup into grab yet, I just DD and bait out an approach and then reverse grab

Except Link grabs people out of the air with his hand, so specific knock-ups can actually lead into grab reliably, mostly rang/dash-attack/dtilt.

 

[Pug]

I just got home from a few hours of singles with a friend who plays Marth, Fox, and Sheik.

Marth wasn't particularly scary but Fox was a nightmare. He was all over me like knockers in a wind tunnel. The only way I could clear some space for myself was to shield grab and d-throw into up-B and try to get my projectile wall up again but it was an uphill struggle. In the end I won maybe 20% of the games.

I'm exhausted from the ordeal. I'm going to collapse now. Please don't let me swallow my tongue.

 

[EmptySky00]

Except Link grabs people out of the air with his hand, so specific knock-ups can actually lead into grab reliably, mostly rang/dash-attack/dtilt.

I freaking hate that unreliable ass mechanic. I've been like point blank a few times and missed anyway. Turns out, it being frame 12 or whatever doesn't allow for on-the-fly grabs out of the air.

 

[NickRiddle]

Yeah, out grab is kinda stupid...

 

[EmptySky00]

It's really tragic that Link completely broke the ability to grab out of the air lol.

Oh God his combo game with that mechanic was absurd. Anything ---> grab ---> anything ---> grab ---> repeat as needed ---> death.
I wish there was a happy medium with it, but I guess I'm content. Until the boomerang comes back, hits them a pixel off the ground, and my grab goes right through them.

 

[Pug]

Ugh, yeah. Fox was basically short hopping the whole time and punished every single missed grab big time.

 

[EmptySky00]

Fox is notoriously hard to grab. Kind of should be considering that if he gets grabbed you essentially can play with yourself until he dies. At least in the optimal situation. It really necessitates good decision making and prediction when going for grabs. Generally they should be used sparingly, but the huge reward from landing one and the fun as hell combos you get from it make one want to be greedy.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Projectiles aren't great against Fox, or really any char with good mobility. They can just run around them or reliably approach with running shield..

Don't try random grabs against Fox. Wait for your setups, which include jab jab, Bair, fair, Nair, and anything that forces a knockdown (dsmash being a good one). If Fox full hops against you, run away-pivot grab is pretty free (depending on how they use double jumps)

Out of grab, you really have to get more than dthrow upB... Dthrow tech chase at low % guarantees a regrab or dash attack, if you're quick. Mid %s, get those utilt/dash attack staples out of dthrow or uthrow (%dependent). Above like 70,dthrow upB puts fox off the stage, which should lead to a Nair gimp. Any time after that, grab = upB or dair out of either dthrow or uthrow (just learn those combos by percent).

Any time Fox ends up on a platform above you, usmash under the platform is a surprisingly cover-all attack, and is unpunishable.

 

[Pug]

Solid advice, Fenrir. It's much appreciated.

This kind of thing should be in the first post, though. Is anyone spearheading the initiative to edit it?

 

[KoolKai]

What should Link do against Charizard's flamethrower when trying to recover?

I talked about this a while back and was going to post a video about it but didn't (sorry about that). That being said, I recently watched a video that pretty much illustrates the situation, albeit with Toon Link rather than Link.
Here's the video:
http://youtu.be/dQ6ZAeYXjJA.

Watch game 2 and you'll understand what I'm talking about. I know it's probably best to recover from above but sometimes that's not always an option..... not to mention that flamethrower also knocks away bombs. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

 

[NickRiddle]

SDI up and hit him.

 

[KoolKai]

It's still really hard to get out of it even with SDI since he can angle it but it seems to be the best way to go. Thanks.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

This guy, you picking up Link?

Fox is a tough matchup to learn, you have to play so specific, I managed to beat M2K's Fox before but it's such a pain, one tip I'll give you, NEVER try to do anything out of shield, if the Fox is good, he can beat out all of Link's OOS options which aren't good in the first place, all you can do is roll or spot-dodge when a Fox is on top of you which is dangerous, so you should space carefully with jabs, boomerang takes too long to get out, I would advise against using it at anything but long range or in a combo string or maybe retreating, but if a Fox is DDing all over the place, do not use it

I have the equipment to stream with me and my buddy who's a fox main, I might start streaming matches soon, at least once finals are over, maybe that will do better than me trying to explain what to do cause I kinda suck at that

Yeaaaah man! Got any EXP on Mewtwo? I found out a lot vs Fox with Aerolink, it's indeed hard for Link if the Fox knows what he's doing.

 

[NickRiddle]

ZeRo, MM at SKTAR Fox v. Link~

 

[TSM ZeRo]

ZeRo, MM at SKTAR Fox v. Link~

Not a fan of that one, rather do not char locked or vs Pit lol

 

[NickRiddle]

Fox v. Bowser then.
Then no character lock, which will turn into Pit v. Link.

 

[Radical Larry]

So, anyone want to think of match-ups for Link against the other heavyweights?

Your thoughts on how he'd fare against them?

 

[NickRiddle]

Bowser and Ganon.
Just throw things until they die.

Falcon.
Don't get hit because you will die, and kill him whenever he is offtage.

Samus.
You're going to lose, don't worry.

Everybody else.
No experience.

 

[Player -0]

Bowser and Ganon.
Just throw things until they die.

Falcon.
Don't get hit because you will die, and kill him whenever he is offtage.

Samus.
You're going to lose, don't worry.

Everybody else.
No experience.

So you're telling me if I play ESAM's Samus with Link I'm 95% screwed already?

 

[Anaky]

What exactly can Falcon do to Link?

 

[NickRiddle]

So you're telling me if I play ESAM's Samus with Link I'm 95% screwed already?

99%.
40% Samus, 59% ESAM.

What exactly can Falcon do to Link?

Have you ever gotten hit by Falcon at 40?
Did you live?
If yes to the second question, the Falcon didn't convert hard enough.

 

[Radical Larry]

99%.
40% Samus, 59% ESAM.




Have you ever gotten hit by Falcon at 40?
Did you live?
If yes to the second question, the Falcon didn't convert hard enough.

I think that Link can survive Samus just by using his better "Melee" costume, which (from what I've seen) increases his sword and shield size. Plus, even though Samus has good projectile game and power, she does suffer from some short range smashes and tilts, something which Link can take full advantage of. Now if we look into Samus' ice capabilities, she'd have better game against Link then, because her range increases dramatically with her attacks.

On the second thing, you got proof Falcon can do that to Link?

 

[Fenrir VII]

no way Samus vs Link is a bad matchup. I call shenanigans. (not to say it's not even)

I think that Link can survive Samus just by using his better "Melee" costume, which (from what I've seen) increases his sword and shield size.

wait....what?

 

[Player -0]

no way Samus vs Link is a bad matchup. I call shenanigans. (not to say it's not even)



wait....what?

Trying to play the player MU not the character MU. Why is the ESAM MU so hard?

99%.
40% Samus, 59% ESAM.




Have you ever gotten hit by Falcon at 40?
Did you live?
If yes to the second question, the Falcon didn't convert hard enough.

I'll just make him think we're playing Melee by using the OoT costume and confuse him into using F-Smash on me in Ice mode.

 

[NickRiddle]

I think that Link can survive Samus just by using his better "Melee" costume, which (from what I've seen) increases his sword and shield size. Plus, even though Samus has good projectile game and power, she does suffer from some short range smashes and tilts, something which Link can take full advantage of. Now if we look into Samus' ice capabilities, she'd have better game against Link then, because her range increases dramatically with her attacks.

On the second thing, you got proof Falcon can do that to Link?

Melee costume does nothing, stop talking nonsense.
Samus uses Ice Mode to beat Link. Link beats Fire Samus.

Proof that Falcon does things to Link?
I've played Falcons that have done it to me.

no way Samus vs Link is a bad matchup. I call shenanigans. (not to say it's not even)



wait....what?

Ice Mode bro.

 

[Problem2]

Falcon will typically do something like d-throw, u-air, u-air, u-air, knee.

 

[Apollo Ali]

Can we actually talk about the Falcon matchup a bit? I don't really get counterpicking. I tried Dreamland, but it seems like he just gets to run around and bait you into the kill combos you guys described and anyhow, he kills at 90% so who cares about stage size. Smashville seems the same. Am I supposed to go for medium stages with platforms? Lylat? WHAT

 

[Player -0]

Boomerang keeps him out pretty well. Then just throw out non laggy moves like Nair. Then edgeguard when Nair. And kill with Nair (Other options too). But Nair.

 

[Apollo Ali]

He can def run and bait boomerang fairly well and not worry about it actually. Nair def a thing tho. STAGES THO WHERE DO I TAKE HIM

 

[Player -0]

How do you "bait" boomerang? That thing is like, uber safe if you do it right. Somewhere that has a small stage and big blast zones probably. Not sure. FD sounds like it would suck for CF because no platforms to dodge boomerang but he might be able to super combo there.

 

[Third]

When I play Captain Falcons, I usually don't like giving them room to run around the entire stage and start baiting attacks and stuff like that. Falcon can also come in with nair, since the first hit clanks with boomerang and second hit is there if you're running towards him or something. However, Link's nair does beat Falcon's nair, so I guess you should just stuff him with nairs or jab. That's what I do and it seems to work. Just be sure to zone him out and when you can feel a nair coming, counter it somehow. Medium stages are best for Link I feel, since you still have room to use your projectiles but don't give too much room away to Falcon to run around with. Personally, I like Lylat.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Yeaaaah man! Got any EXP on Mewtwo? I found out a lot vs Fox with Aerolink, it's indeed hard for Link if the Fox knows what he's doing.

With Mewtwo, you want to zone him out with your disjointed moves and projectiles, and bait out teleports from him and punish if you can. You can crouch-cancel Mewtwo's tilts at low percents and punish with dsmash or grab. Mewtwo is a floaty, so if you grab him, dthrow to upair is what you can get for the KO. Mewtwo can edgeguard Link well, so you gotta be creative with your recovery (master the AGT bomb jump recovery, tether cancel mixups, and just AGT in general @ TSM ZeRo !); it's very important to learn this, otherwise, it's a free stock for Mewtwo. Other things: you can DI Mewtwo's dthrow by holding down and away to avoid follow ups. Also, watch out for Mewtwo's charged projectile; it will go through arrows and boomerang, but I think bombs will stop it if I'm not mistaken (can't remember).

For stages, Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Pokemon Stadium 2, Pokemon Stadium, can be good against Mewtwo imo. Stages with a lot of space with decent/small blastzones are good for Link against Mewtwo. Big stages with large blastzones and high ceilings are setups for a longer match (I've went to time on stages like Dreamland/Castlevania before lol), so you may want to avoid stages like Dreamland or Skyworld. Link should be fine on small stages vs. Mewtwo, just space well with your disjointed moves and also you can get earlier kills too.

Hope this helps.

 

[NickRiddle]

Can we actually talk about the Falcon matchup a bit? I don't really get counterpicking. I tried Dreamland, but it seems like he just gets to run around and bait you into the kill combos you guys described and anyhow, he kills at 90% so who cares about stage size. Smashville seems the same. Am I supposed to go for medium stages with platforms? Lylat? WHAT

There are no specific stages where Link does very well against Falcon, it's all about what you're good at.
Good at zoning all game? Take him somewhere big.
Good at winning the neutral more often than not? Take him somewhere small.

 

[Problem2]

Conventional Melee Falcon match-up wisdom says to avoid big stages that give him room to run around. If you're worried about blast zones, worry about the horizontal blast zones, and go for low ceilings so that you can still kill. A strategy I've been using since even the Melee days in this match-up is to camp the side of the stage. Falcon needs ground to continue his combos. If he gets a hold of you from near the center of the stage, he can chase you during hit stun all the way to the end of the stage. However, if he hits you off stage in the first hit, he won't be getting much of a follow up.

I'm a bit more lenient in this strategy now because Link's options are just so much better, but I think the general idea is still useful. This is mostly for nuetral. If you get a chance to control space around him, don't hesitate to choke it out and take control of the map.

 

[Apollo Ali]

Hey guys, that's all been very useful. Thanks. Big stages definitely have been working for me, and I'm less of a zoning oriented player anyway. Small stages, camp the ledges, nair it is.

@ Player -0 I basically was referring to what Third mentioned, which is that Falcon can nair through your boomerang if you throw a bad one and then convert into grab and combo.