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Link Match-up Thread

Problem2

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
2,318
Location
Crowley/Fort Worth, TX
NNID
Problem0
UPDATE: With 3.5's release, this thread is considered outdated. The information you see below covers Link's match-ups only in 3.0. I do not know at this time if I will be able to update this all with 3.5 knowledge because I don't get to play nearly as much as I used to. Feel free to discuss 3.5 in this thread though, and if anyone is brave enough, someone else can start the next 3.5 guide.

The last match-up thread hasn't been updated since January and the knowledge from there is only about 2.5 version, so I thought it would appropriate to start a new one instead of getting the information mixed up. I went all Link at Low Tier City this weekend in Singles and almost all Link in teams, played lots of tournament matches against many players and played against quite a few styles and many characters. Some knowledge was fresh on my mind, and I wanted to record it for discussion.


Vs Bowser
(7/29/13)
I don't feel like I should really have to explain much about this match-up. Obviously, you try to avoid close contact with him as much as possible. Take Bowser to large stages and avoid small ones. Blast zone sizes do not matter much if he has trouble even laying a finger on you. Mix up your boomerang and bombs and z-air him when he tries to get around that. If he decides to stay really far away and be patient for some reason, take the opportunity to pull out some bombs (you can set them to wavedash to pick up later) and start pestering with arrows. If he's close, do a retreating boomerang and run to get some space again. No sense of risking the up-close game where he gets the better reward for his correct decisions.
Vs Captain Falcon
Vs Charizard
Vs Diddy Kong
(7/29/13)
Playing against Diddy Kong was kind of interesting. You should learn how to wavedash to pick up items off the ground. There is not really an excuse for a Link to not know this because it is extremely useful for your own bombs. In this match-up though, it is essential so that you can control Diddy's bananas. Diddy's bananas have the same throw distance and arc as Link's bombs, so they provide the same coverage. The difference is instead of popping opponents up on hit, they send them the same distance away at every %. Oh, and Diddy trips on them if you place them on the ground. Diddy Kong mains WILL know how to wavedash to pick up bananas though, so don't expect Diddy Kong to blindly run over them. Most of the banana traps will require you to force his hand to attack on top of them or something.

But anyways, the important thing to know about this match-up is to learn how to secure bananas that Diddy leaves on the ground. Your projectile game is superior to his when he doesn't have a banana in hand. When Diddy does have a banana, your goal is to get him to somehow drop it away from him where he can't pick it up. It doesn't have to be right next to you. It can be in-between you and him, just so long as it's not at his feet or behind him or something. So once the banana is open to be taken, use your boomerang and other projectiles to block Diddy from reaching the banana. Diddy is going to really want to grab his banana as it is important to his mix-up, combo, and keep-out game. With the boomerang sitting out, you can pretty safely wavedash forward and grab the banana. Once you have his banana, you'll have pretty good control of the match. Continue to use the boomerang and your 1st banana to block Diddy from using his 2nd banana, then beat him up with your ranged sword. You should be able to corner him pretty well with your arsenal AND 2 bananas!!!

For edgeguarding, nair trades with his up-b iirc. A worthwhile trade though to gimp or KO him, just be mindful of the barrel that will try and chase you. If Diddy is aiming sideways for the ledge, be prepared to either edgehog him or up-b him when he tries to trick you and recover slightly above.

Pretty fun match-up, still a lot of work like almost every match-up with Link imo, but that's the nature of PM I guess.

UPDATE (11/17/2013): So a local Diddy Kong player started doing this really odd edge guard where he gets underneath me and charges his up-b. Once I start up-b, he blasts off towards the stage and hits me really far away to where it's hard to come back. I don't know a direct answer to it yet other than make good use of your movement with your AGT bombs and sometimes, you might just have to eat it (maybe it's possible to SDI to the other side of the attack to get launched towards the stage?). I don't know yet, but I thought I should share it anyways.
Vs Donkey Kong
Vs Falco
(1/3/2014)
Falco's goal versus Link, as against most characters, is to pin you down and start exerting shield pressure. Falco pretty much owns the horizontal space around him for free, so try taking him to stages with a bunch of platforms of varying heights (like Battlefield and Skyworld). Your goal is to always been on a different horizontal plane as him and pester him with your angled projectiles. Link also can also stuff Falco somewhat well by n-airing over his head to control space.

Be trying to hold onto a bomb most of the time, dropping it so that you can attack or combo. If he starts lasering your shield, you can throw the bomb OoS before he can shoot the next laser. Once he starts pillaring your shield, there isn't a whole lot of options you have left. Your options basically boil down to waiting for an opening or mistake in his shield pressure (then grab or up-b oos), or seeing where he'll commit too hard to pressuring and roll away. Pretty much anything won't work in this situation. Link's jump is too slow to wavedash or jump away. You'll just get hit.

Bad Falcos will camp the stage when you are recovering, but good Falcos will ledge grab, drop, b-air. If you face a Falco that does that, the best option is to hookshot the ledge, cancel it really fast, and then aim your up-b into hitting him. Being able to get back on stage is a pivotal point in the match-up. Your success will increase greatly if you can survive most of his edge guards.

Link has a pretty good combo game on Falco. At percents below 80%, you can try stuff out of up-throw. If you grab Falco near the ledge, you can also try tossing him off and then edge guarding him. If he tries to recover late, it's almost a free n-air gimp, but knowledgeable Falcos will Illusion almost immediately, in which case, you just hit him from on stage. (In Melee, Falco could illusion before LInk recovered from b-throw, but I don't believe this is true in PM)
80% is the magical percent for throwing against space animals. At 80%, Link can d-throw into up-b guaranteed for a kill.

Falco is one of the easiest characters for Link to edge guard. In a lot of situations, if you can cause Falco to dip below the stage, you can drop out there with your n-air to gimp him. Smart Falcos know this and will move very fast to recover and mix-up illusioning on stage or towards the ledge. You'll have to become aware through practice what moments Falco will have time to escape from beneath and when he will not. If you respect when he can escape and recover high, you can cover ledge, then hit him if he recovers high. Usually this is done by throwing your boomerang downwards to cover the ledge and awaiting his high recovery. If he up-bs, you can n-air him out of it.

HeeroYuy says:
- PS'ing is your best defense against this annoying bird and his lasers.
- You don't want him pressuring you, otherwise that results in deadly pillars which Link is very vulnerable to. Keep him away with your boomerang. If he does get in, my option of choice is usually Nair OoS or WD OoS.

Problemo's note: You'll have to notice a hole in his pillaring in order to N-air or WD OoS. Those options are slow and are not actually guaranteed to get you out of perfect pressure.
- Link's jab CAN halt some of his approaches. Time and space it carefully.
Vs Fox
Vs Ganondorf
Vs Ice Climbers
Vs Ike

Vs Ivysaur

Note: The Ivysaur guide is still based on 2.6 Ivysaur who has received a few significant changes since then (mostly nerfs). In particular, her razor leaf is not near as easy to throw out as before, but is still multi-hit, even on shield.
(11/16/2013)
Fortress says:
You can AGT with a bomb over Ivy's Razor Leaf to both avoid it, approach above it, and defend yourself while doing so. I usually run forward, shorthop, toss forward, glide back, and 'block' the leaf with Link's Hylian Shield. Remember, Ivy can only have one leaf on the board at a time, so using the stage to your advantage, coupled with good AGT, it's possible to avoid the leaf and get the upper hand on Ivy while she's 'cooling down' on razor leaf.


Apart from seed bomb, razor leaf is her go-to for quick and effective stage control, so managing the attack should be a priority in the matchup. If Ivy leafs low, AGT above it and approach with an aerial. If Ivy leafs high, get a 'rang out there to exert your own zone of control, and get ready to stamp out a grab, or crouch cancel some kind of d-air approach while you're locked down on the floor.

There are other little tricks that can help in the Ivy matchup, as well. Link's clawshot can take out Razor Leaf, acting as both a defense option against Leaf and Ivy herself if she decides to get too familiar and run right up to you when you do it. Picture this matchup on Battlefield. Ivy and yourself are on the two platforms across from one another, and she hurls a leaf your way. If you've practiced the trick enough, you can do the falling spin attack (or 'edge spin attack', or whatever you'd like to call it) off of the ledge to block the leaf, approach, and get Ivy off your back while you do so. Link's got a lot of options to deal with razor leaf pressure, and put pressure on himself.

Whenever you can, avoid clashing with the leaf, and let it fly off into the distance. Remember, Ivy doesn't get another one until the first one is gone.

(11/16/13)
Sarix says:
A good thing to keep in mind in the Link vs. Ivy MU is that Link's projectiles are better for forcing reactions and creating baits rather than directly pressuring the opponent. The reason being is that the speed of our projectiles when used directly at the opponent actually are more likely to give them perfect shield practice. When zoning Link typically wants to be in the air so he can utilize mobility ATs with his projectiles to maintain space but against Ivy you must pay attention to the leaf angle first. If angled low, zone as normal using the air to our advantage and even full hopping if need be. A smart Ivy likely will not angle her leaf high often since she has seed bomb to cover herself vertically along with her strong anti-airs.


Outside of bouncing the boomerang under her razor leaf we can also slide bombs along the ground under it with Zair as they are about to explode and keep her from approaching. If Link is at a reasonable distance, arcing arrows above and in front of Ivy is a nice way to indirectly pressure her and do basic fireball traps. Even if she manages to perfect shield the arrows they will either bounce away behind her or fly above Link's head as he falls.
Vs Jigglypuff
Vs King Dedede
Vs Kirby
preview: He can crouch under your grab and most of your projectiles. Be careful of dash attack from off a platform. When done from off a platform, his dash attack has no landing lag and he's free to do w/e.
Vs Link
(7/29/13)
The Link mirror match seems pretty much like the Link mirror match in Melee. For the most part, you'll be spacing with projectiles in a very tactical manner, trying to find an opening in your opponent's smart "spam". Afterwords, you make a slight approach and assume stage control until you land a combo starter and being some nasty combos. The biggest new dynamic though is Link's hookshot. Remember that hookshots BOUNCE BOMBS AWAY. This has always seemed kind of gimmicky to use on your own bombs, but this is definitely useful at blocking your opponents bombs. The other new dynamic is Link's Hylian shield now works when you walk too, so you can walk forward into range, and get your free f-tilt, up-b, or grab.

Fortress says:
Link, at his core, has an abysmal recovery that can be
strongly enhanced with some advanced techniques. While the bomb recovery can help Link come back from obscenedistances, it's slow, and requires Link to be relatively safe off-stage to pull off. Most of the time, Link is safe because most of the cast lacks the off-stage presence to get in the way of Link's bomb recovery, but another Link can easily take advantage of the recovering Link's hangtime and pick him off with arrows, shoot the bomb out of the air, or even harass with the 'rang if close enough.

Even if a recovering Link does pull off the bomb jump, he's still got to come back. Link's up-special off-stage is a relatively poor attack, but on-stage packs the range and power to make it a potent edgeguarding tool. When recovering as Link, one of the worst things you can do is miss the edge and recover on-stage; the up-special takes ten centuries to recover from, and Link is left helpless in his million frames of ending lag, something another Link can take advantage of with a swift up-special of his own. Moreso, even if the recovering Link has a good chance of getting that ledge sweetspot, a ledgeguarding Link can AGT bombs and pelt the recovering Link, or wait with a simple up-special gimp. The LinkxLink matchup goes in favor of whichever Link is on the stage, from my experience.
Vs Lucario
Vs Lucas
Vs Luigi
Vs Mario
preview: Fireballs are a pain and you can be in a lot of trouble very quickly if you try and shield them. You'll give Mario too much control when doing so. You're best option to stop fireballs is to SHFFL nair through them.
Vs Marth NEW
(02/24/14)
Fortress says:
Punish Marth's need to space you out by being farther away than he wants you to be. Marth wants tippers to hit you hard, but you as a Link player excel from far away, and have a multitude of tools to punish him from a distance. Your z-air allows you to put on safe pressure from a distance while approaching and closing the gap for swordplay, while your 'rangs, bombs, and bow will force Marth to either stay super defensive and away from you or try and rush in and pressure you (which you can take advantage of, if you're the player who makes the other player move). I tend to leave bombs lying around the stage now and again so that Marth feels less inclined to throw out sweeping attacks and accidentally hurt himself.

Link also has plenty of technical tools available to deal with Marth, like the DACUS, which allows him to close space quickly, quickdraw-bow which lets you put on quick pressure from a range, and AGT for your aerial mixups. On top of that, Marth's recovery game is pretty one-dimensional and predictable. Link can take advantage of that with his assortment of projectiles to poke at Marth off-stage, and even punish Marth should he recover too high.

Like others have said already, if you're recovering with Link versus a Marth, recover as low as you can, and AGT a bomb to clear airspace for yourself. The last thing you want is to be d-air'd out of tether, and tethering/spin-attacking too high will end with an F-smash every time against any Marth worth his salt. Also, don't forget that you have the tether cancel mixup in your arsenal; you can bait out an f-smash, and punish it with a reverse-hitbox up-special, sending Marth off of the stage behind you, where you can harass with projectiles.

Check out the second game in this match to see what I mean.


Vs Metaknight
preview: His sword cannot clank with your projectiles.
Vs Mewtwo
(12/27/13)
I've received quite a bit of experience against Mewtwo. I don't have the words to write an entire guide yet, but the main thing to pay attention to is when you decide to pull out a bomb. Mewtwo can teleport and punish you for trying to pull out a bomb, but the boomerang will hit him usually if he tries to teleport in as you're using it. Even though Mewtwo has a teleport, which allows him to get around projectiles with good timing, he's a big character, and so he has to be aware of both the space near him and the availability of the space he wants to teleport to. Teleport is set distance, so always be spacing for it. Camp Mewtwo a lot, he still has some difficulty getting past your projectile wall, even with his fancy new toys.

Update: (1/3/14) A quick update on this match-up. His b-air is deadly. Mewtwo perhaps has the strongest edgeguard in the game because he can follow you anywhere with floating b-airs which will carry any character to the blast zone, especially Link. Another lesson I learned recently is that fully charged Shadow Balls will actually beat your boomerang. Yes, it goes right through the boomerang and can hit you if you are not careful. Careful Mewtwo players will camp outside your zoning range to prepare his Shadow Ball for exactly this purpose. You can try to up the pressure to get some free damage while he is charging, but once he has it charged, you should respect the Shadow Ball a little better. You can keep a bomb on hand to stop it. Bombs still collide with Shadow Ball, even when fully charged, and there are ways to throw the range without leaving yourself vulnerable.
Vs Mr. Game & Watch
Vs Ness
(11/16/13)
I'm going to try my best to explain this match-up. This match-up for me has been a lot of trial and error. One of Link's common weaknesses is protecting himself from attack diagonally above him or attacks directly above him off stage. Ness just so happens to like being in both of those places a lot, so you have to be very mindful of Ness's position and avoid letting him get those positions on you.

Update: (12/27/13) Both characters punish each other pretty hard, but what makes this fight difficult is that a good Ness will have amazing control of the neutral game compared to Link. Ness players will typically full hop towards Link, lining himself for a PK Fire and then watch what you do. From here, he can fire the PK Fire, he can wait for you for you to run and then follow, or he can wait and do a devastating late PK Fire, which creates pressure against all your options! Your instincts might tell you to shield, run, or roll away when he full jumps at you. None of those options are very good however as you give him a ton of space control when you do so. The best option to counter his full jumps is by jumping into the air with him. Your f-air, bomb, and boomerang out spaces pretty much all of his moves, but you need to be horizontally aligned for them to work. Ness will be trying his hardest to avoid being lined up that way.

If you choose to try and throw projectiles at ground level, you should almost always be throwing the boomerang upwards. This will either catch his jump, or will at least discourage him from jumping so much. Both are good outcomes for Link. Another nice option Link has in the neutral game is an escape from a PK Fire attempt. If Ness has an aerial PK Fire lined up and fires, you can air dodge through the PK Fire and catch him falling with your z-air pretty reliably. The tricky part is being ready for the PK Fire.

Even with good practice, sometimes you're going to mess up and get hit by PK Fire, and it can be very discouraging. It's a powerful move when it lands, and you must remember that the pillar of flames now happens even if you shield it! If you get caught PK Fire, the best way to escape is by DIing up and then jumping away. If the PK Fire is closer to the top of your head, it might be better to shield then buffer a roll with the C-stick. It's probably better to simply watch this video to learn more about it: http://youtu.be/fzGFooXC-1U

Another huge strength that Ness has is his d-air meteor and his ability to set up for one. Some Ness's will go for a good ol' Ken like combo by using f-air d-air. To my knowledge, there is no same way to DI this successfully. You have to watch how Ness moves during his f-air and do your best to SDI away so that you're not directly beneath him when his f-air ends. I wish I had a better way to explain this, but the knowledge is still in my fingers and not in my head yet. If you must resort to using up-b to recover, always try to up-b along the side of a stage, so that if you're hit, you can tech the wall.

Note: A good practice in general with Link is you can tap shield in anticipation of being hit out of up-b. If your opponent's attack doesn't connect, nothing happens and you continue to up-b. If you get hit, you'll tech. It's a very nice option select.

When it comes to Edgeguarding Ness, Link actually has an edge over some other characters. First of all, Ness has a very far reaching recovery. His PK Thunder 2 is invincible at the beginning of the launch and does massive knockback and damage if you get hit, often fatal, but Link has a sword that is nice for slicing through his recovery. PKT2 is particularly hard to aim, so average Ness's will have a hard time sweet spotting 100% of their attempts. If you see a bad recovery attempt, you can actually land your up-b semi spike to put Ness to rest. Link can also utilize n-air, f-tilt, or f-air to hit him away, or d-air if he's killable off the top. Unlike the Star Fox characters, whos direction is not known until they launch, you can visually see where Ness is about to launch based on his PKT. It's important to remember, that it doesn't matter which direction the PKT is facing, it's where the PKT hits him on his body. Most Ness's will try to trick you by aiming their PKT to skim their head as the Thunder is doing something silly like going diagonally up. If Ness get his in the head, he will actually go DOWN!

One last important tool that you don't want to forget when edge guarding Ness. Link has good arrows now. Really really good arrows. Get proficient at aiming with them and you can snipe the PKT away from above his head. If the PKT is already behind him, just hit Ness with your arrows and make him start up-b again. It is also possible to just repeatedly arrow him until he's too far to make it back. At this point just grab the ledge to edge hog him. I don't recommend going far off stage to hit him when he's starting PKT. It puts you at a huge risk to getting hit and KO'd.
Vs Olimar
Vs Peach
Vs Pikachu
Vs Pit
Vs R.O.B.
(1/20/14)
Rob is definitely a unique character introduced in Project M and has a learning curve on how to deal with, even for Melee veterans. First of all, you should know to respect Rob's gimping abilities off stage. With his boosts, he can reach far and deep off stage. His aerials also get a slight power boost when he does them right out of his boosts. If he boost f-airs your shield perfectly, it is only -6 on block, giving him 2 frames to jab you before an oos up-b can hit him. His jab however, isn't that safe on block, so it becomes a game of chicken. Sometimes he'll f-air and then jab your response or he'll aerial then wait or even just aerial -> grab you if you decide to always respect his f-air. When facing a Rob on the ground that is in nuetral, be careful of how you space and time your projectiles. His reflector tackle (forward-b on the ground) is good at coming in on your boomerang and arrows and hitting you leading in to some stuff. Bombs are a little safer to throw out against this, but you can still get hit by the tackle itself. And don't forget he has that self-recharging laser. It has transcendent priority, so it will go through anything and it has some nice knockback too. If Rob can't follow up after knocking you off stage, he might try and read when you jump (or when you won't jump) and laser you so always be prepared to react.

So now that I've talked about some of the scary stuff Rob can do, let's bring up some of his weaknesses. First of all, his shield kind of sucks. It's pretty small for a big robot like him, so it often leaves his bottom or his forehead exposed to attacks. Using your projectiles (especially boomerang), you can whittle down his shield a lot then try to poke with d-smash, f-air, d-tilt, z-air, or even d-air! Rob likes to dash around in the air with his boosts to mix up his timings, but doing this leaves him very vulnerable to projectiles. He can f-air away the boomerang if he hits it with his robot "hands", but if you get his head or belly, he'll plop up perfectly to get combo'd. Alternatively, if you have the opportunity, you can throw a bomb which will also hit him easily in the air.

Edgeguarding Rob requires some practice and is difficult at first. Remember the way his boosters work. He gets 3 boosts in the air and doesn't get them back when he lands. That means, so long as you hit him and reset the situation off stage enough times, he will not come back. The object isn't to hit him far away (though it never hurts to do so), but to hit him after each boost attempt. I find the best tools for this are arrows, b-air, and aerial-up-b. If Rob is coming from a far, aim arrows at him. If Rob is coming from low, hit him with b-airs and up-bs that end with you grabbing the ledge, then go back into more b-airs. The trickiest angle is trying to stop him from coming high. Rob can mix up a lot from above by using his boosts and any of his aerials to change the timing of hitting him. From above, he can also drop his gyro to zone you out of the air, giving him a safe place to land. You can hit him with u-airs, f-airs, bombs and boomerangs here. F-airs are the most preferable because it will knock him back off stage or possibly KO him. U-airs are okay, better if they KO off the top, but otherwise, he is sent upwards and now has a good chance to make it back. I would say bombs and boomerangs are the worst options, but sometimes it is the projectiles or nothing. These two projectiles will send him back up in the air, but rarely will KO on their own, and Rob is so floaty that it is rare you will get a chance to combo off of them when he is that high in the air.

I wish I knew how to explain what to do when Rob starts juggling you from the stage towards the blast zone, but a lot goes on in a short time. This part is crucial to learn when it is best to try and jump out of it and recover high and when it is better to go low as possible. I would say learn to be very comfortable recovering very low vs Rob. The worst thing you can do is try to recover anywhere near ledge height. It's a sure way to get bopped.
Vs Roy
Vs Samus
Vs Sheik
preview: If she's "chain grabbing" you, hold down and away to DI out. She'll mix up down and back throw, so be careful.
Vs Snake
Vs Sonic
Vs Squirtle
(2/24/14)
So let's get the biggest surprise factor to people new to this match-up. Squirtle can run underneath all 3 of Link's projectiles, and this will prevent you from playing your typical projectile game that you're used to. The projectile you're most likely to hit with is a down angled boomerang, but you have to actively place it right where you think Squirtle might be, so you don't get near as good of zoning as you usually do.

What you really do vs Squirtle is abuse your larger A-move hitboxes. d-smash, f-tilt, and n-air are all key moves to ruining Squirtle's day. In addition, get comfortable with being able to sweet spot z-air a small character such as Squirtle. The secret to a low z-air is to wait until just AFTER the peak of your short hop to throw out the move. Otherwise, the move will lose it's active hibox just before the claw reaches low enough to hit Squirtle.

You can also make it difficult for Squirtle to slide around freely in his shell by laying bombs on the stage. There are a couple of drawbacks to this however. A good player can easily just pick up the bombs, or a good squirtle can use watergun to push the bomb back towards you. If Squirtle is still at low percent, the bombs do not inflict enough knock back to break through the armor, and Squirtle won't flinch by them anyways (but it is still free damage). The better option is to jump over Squirtle as he's sliding and z-drop or d-throw the bomb. You can keep all your options available to you by having a bomb on the ground when fighting, then quickly picking when he begins a forward b.

An AGT technique discovered by AeroLink that handle short characters lets you hit Squirtle with bombs. If you aerial glide down while tossing forward as soon as you leave the ground, Link's bombs will be tossed low enough to hit Squirtle or any other character of that really short height.



[Spoilers="Outdated Info"]
(7/29/13)
This ended up being a very surprising match-up too. You know why? Because Squirtle can RUN UNDERNEATH all 3 of your projectiles! Yeah, that's definitely a game changer for Link. You'll be spending most of your spacing throwing boomerangs downwards at an angle or tossing bombs when Squirtle is far away. Link's advantage in this match-up is that Squirtle really can't touch Link's shield with moves, except maybe Bubble. Be prepared to spin attack any sort of cross up he tries on you, this is very useful vs Squirtle's forward b when it hits your shield. Once the Squirtle figures out that he doesn't want to hit your shield, the game is going to become a cat and mouse of trying to bait out your sword spin and punishing it, so you'll have to learn to be patient and wait for your chances.

Not really sure about how to ledgeguard yet. Squirtle reminds me a little bit of Roy in the way that Squirtle's Waterfall (Up-b) appears to have a huge hitbox that hits you away when you try to n-air or b-air it. I might try doing an up AGT down bomb to launch squirtle up into a nair for a gimp or a dair for the kill. Needs experimenting.

(12/27/13)
Not a whole lot has changed about this match-up for me other than I've become better at aiming the boomerang and using my aerials for combat. A nice AGT technique introduced by AeroLink to me to handle short characters lets you hit Squirtle with bombs. If you aerial glide down while tossing forward as soon as you leave the ground, Link's bombs will be tossed low enough to hit Squirtle or any other character of that really short height.

(1/3/14)
Another idea that AeroLink and I have been trying is placing bombs on the ground to stop him from being able to withdraw as much (this was even suggested by Player-0). I don't think it's amazing, but it does slow him down. Every little bit helps. The more I play this match-up, the more aggressive I become. I've been gradually using less and less projectiles and been approaching more and more with spaced f-airs. Squirtle's weakness in general is his short moves and mediocre options against pressure. Squirtle is weird, unlike most characters who have armor at the start of their moves, I think Squirtle's armor usually comes later in the move, where it's not as useful, but packs a larger surprise factor. This is why he loses to constant pressure though. His armor doesn't help him to get out of it.[/spoilers]
Vs Toon Link
Vs Wario
Vs Wolf
(7/29/13)
Having pretty much no experience against Wolf, I played against Rat's Wolf in my pool. It was pretty hard without any knowledge of what to do and I wasn't sure how to get around Wolf's lasers. Something that everyone should be aware of is that Link's bombs BOUNCE OFF Wolf's lasers and come back at you at a hideous arc. It really sucks to now have 2 projectiles creeping towards you with a space animal behind them in free movement. I tossed boomerang and arrows at them too and they seem to trade, that is, the boomerang/arrow disappears along with the laser when they collide. I attempted to throw boomerangs underneath his lasers, and sometimes it clanked with the lasers and sometimes the boomerang WENT THROUGH the laser, which is really useful, if only I could learn to do that consistently on the fly!

UPDATE (8/1/13): So NIckRiddle is correct. N-air DOES go through lasers. In fact, b-air and z-air go through lasers as well. Kind of funny that that whole aspect of Wolf was what was so scary, but now seems pretty weak.

Here is a summary of what to watch out for and how to handle Wolf:
-Wolf's f-smash hits kind of low. It seems like his toe is where he can hit you too, so even though Wolf is spaced a bit away from the ledge, make sure to sweetspot your up-b well or use the hookshot, or you can get gimped.
-If the Wolf is shooting lasers low to the ground, it's pretty easy to use the Hylian Shield, but most Wolfs aim them a bit higher so that they can waveland at the end of the animation.
- Wolf's lasers are CLANKABLE, therefore you can hit them away with your own hitboxes. This means you can n-air, b-air, and z-air right through them.
- Link's boomerang and arrow trade with lasers, causing both to disappear. If the Wolf aims the lasers high though, you can bounce your boomerang underneath the lasers, making the laser still disappear, but not your boomerang.

-Wolf's up-b knocks you in the direction he is aiming. It is possible for Wolf to be slightly above the ledge and aim directly down and snap to the ledge mid-move. This is intended to meteor smash you, so be wary of this set-up.
-Wolf's d-air isn't Falco, but Wolf can drop down deeper than Falco can. This caught me off guard during our match at first too.
- There will be more to discover vs Wolf, but for everything else, I would suggest follow your instinct based on how you handle Space Animals or Captain Falcon in this match-up.
Vs Yoshi
Nuttre says:
djc = yoshi's double jump cancel
I am not huge on link lingo, pardon me if I say anything wrong.

When you are playing against yoshi you want to keep him out using a combo of angled boomerangs, arrows and bombs if you have the time.
Yoshi is one of those characters that can do a few things on the way in. His nair beats out your boomerang and your bombs just bounce away from his shield harmlessly. Your arrows aren't a problem for him as long as he is onstage.
What you want to do instead is hit him once his double jump armor is gone or when he is within range.You can use ftilt and dtilt to push im out again. Usually you can grab him if he is landing from an armoured djc, but be aware of grab parrying (he is invulnerable to grabs on the first 3 frames of his shield). You can also roll through him if he is too close for you to do anything else, but you must be careful with that, a good yoshi will be able to punish it if he sees it coming.

The absolute worst thing you can do is get grabbed in the neutral game, it is an instant half stock to him (providing he / she doesn't mess up):
His Down Throw combos into anything he wants at medium percents and on stages with platforms, you will eat an up air or a nair after the tech. You can punish over zealous follow ups from there, depending on where you end up and what percentage you are at.

Once you are offstage your are actually really vulnerable to egg setups as egg goes through link's up b.
Yoshi can also gimp link at low percent's if you give him the chance with fair meteors and dairs, although this shouldn't be too much of a problem if you can up b soon enough.

Your main tools for killing yoshi are uptilt and fsmash (according to a link main that plays against my yoshi well), your uptilt comes out quick enough to not allow yoshi to react and the first hit of f smash can punish a dash attack or a badly spaced djc or bair.

Once you have put yoshi offstage your goal is to stop him from either grabbing the ledge or landing on the stage. Without his double jump, his recovery options are extremely limited (like there aren't any other than egg roll). You can quite easily deal with him if he does manage to get back on stage.
Yoshi has problems sweet spotting as his double jump just cant. The latter frames of double jump are not armoured and that is where you can hit him before ge grabs the edge, if he tries.

If yoshi ends up above you, be aware of dair and down b (ground pound), these can set up kills, depending on which way you DI it.The link that I train with says that up air out prioritises both, but he prefers to wavedash back -> fsmash to punish.

Coming down on yoshi can be a hassle, particularly if he is reading any dairs or whatever you do on the way down. I honestly think that this is link's vulnerable state against yoshi as yoshi will just dsmash or usmash you if you miss anything as you are coming down. Also note that yoshi's up smash may have invincibility at the tip (don't quote me on that though).

As for combos, I don't really know any on yoshi. I do know that yoshi is quite floaty in project M so you might want to tread carefully in your chases, down b can surprise link if he doesn't have a move out at the time.

Conclusion:
In my opinion this MU is about 55/45 to link, maybe more if you play correctly.
Do's:
Punish his mis-spacings well with fsmash or a tilt.
Get him offstage
Use projectiles at decent range
Grab, within your safety though.

Don'ts:
Let him set up on you
Go offstage
Get egged
Get above him
Make a marge enough mistake to get dsmashed, or set up upon.
Vs Zelda
(4/24/2014)
Zelda is an interesting character. She works best when an opponent is trying to be aggressive, but we're Link! We definitely don't have to be aggressive if we don't want to. Zelda has slow moves and slow movement speed, so projectil camping her works pretty well. Of course, Zelda will likely try to reflect your projectiles back at you, but this when you start using z-air. Always try to be at the perfect distance to throw out z-air at any point. There is not a lot she can do to stop it.

Don't be intimidated by her Din's Fire traps. If they are getting in your way, you can hit them with your sword or n-air. Literally, just jab, f-tilt, or f-air them to make them vanish. In some cases, if she tries placing them in an unsafe manner, you can straight up hit her. You can punish a din's fire attempt at a lot of different distance. When far away, you can shoot an arrow or throw a bomb. Up close, you can get off a z-air, d-smash, or w/e move makes sense at the time.

Zelda can airdodge out of her teleport if she start is from the ground. The teleport actually has a somewhat nice hitbox, so if she is using it to be aggressive, just shield it and punish. In the air, teleport always goes a set distance. If you learn her recovery angles, you can figure out when she'll try to grab the ledge and steal it from her.
Vs Zero Suit Samus
(7/29/13)
My set vs the ZSS Keys was extremely close at the tournament. Even then, I couldn't conjure any anti-ZSS tech on the fly. If you guys have something to add, that would be great. I found edgeguarding her particularly troublesome. Her tether reaches much farther than Link's and reals in faster too. I tried dropping low with nair. I've tried throwing down bombs. None of it seems to really work. This could just be a timing and inexperience issue, so I plan to experiment more in the future. Luckily, ZSS is kind of light, and not the "too light and floaty to combo" light. Killing her off the side and the top should be easier than other characters.

She has a really nice gimp vs you though. Her dive-kick that comes out of her down-b goes deep off stage and knocks Link perfectly away to where he can't make it back, even at really low percent. When recovering against ZSS, make sure to go deep yourself. Save your double jump and have your bomb ready. AGT the bomb upwards and fly upwards as well then go for tethering the ledge. You can time the airdodge to dodge the dive kick and then hookshot at the last possible second. This was how I normally avoided the edgeguard, but it can be tricky to avoid that nasty dive kick.
 
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NaijaboyIrin

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Someone decides to make a new match up thread for Link and nobody posts in it? For shame, people. We need this!

This is some really in depth match-up info you got here, Problem2. Thanks for posting this.Will this thread serve as a database for Link players? If so, how will it be updated?
Are you gonna add more characters as you face them?I can't really play with other people, but I can help you if you want.

Also, are there any vids up of you playing at Low Tier City?
 

NickRiddle

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Can't you nair through Wolf's lasers?
They act like a normal projectile in this game IIRC.
 

Problem2

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Someone decides to make a new match up thread for Link and nobody posts in it? For shame, people. We need this!

This is some really in depth match-up info you got here, Problem2. Thanks for posting this.Will this thread serve as a database for Link players? If so, how will it be updated?
Are you gonna add more characters as you face them?I can't really play with other people, but I can help you if you want.

Also, are there any vids up of you playing at Low Tier City?
A lot of very good questions. I haven't put too much thought into how I am going to format this. I created a new thread because I really wanted to see some discussion on these boards other than nerf/buff/tweak plz. Once this thing gets pretty big, I'll probably make each character's section collapsible and the advice inside will be further categorized by the player who gave it. In the meantime, feel free to ask for help on match-ups and try your best to come up with solutions to the challenges in Link's match-ups.

I did not get any tournament footage of my Link at Low Tier City, I'm sorry. :( I was a little sad too, but alas, I got 3rd in my Pool to Rat and UTD Zac. They're really good players. The only footage I have is about 10 minutes on Saturday's livestream playing friendlies.

http://www.twitch.tv/oracletx/c/2657791
Should be at around 2:53:00. Quality is pretty bad though and you get to see me play a terrible Sonic lol. :grin:

Can't you nair through Wolf's lasers?
They act like a normal projectile in this game IIRC.
I haven't tested n-air yet, but you are correct Nick, the lasers are a clankable projectile, so you can attack through them. I now know for a fact that a well timed z-air cuts through all the lasers coming at you. This is also god like vs Zelda as it cuts through her Din's Fire and punishes Naryu's Love from a safe distance. Z-air even work against Ness's PK Fire, but repeated attempts can be risky imo. Ness is faster than Zelda is AND the fire pillar still comes out and you can still get hit by it.

P.S. I'm going to add a section in the near future for what I know about facing Ness and Zelda.
 

EmptySky00

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I think the Link vs Ike MU is maybe 5:5 if not 45:55. I think the main thing in this MU is that Ike can get in really fast and once he does he hits really hard, so effectively keeping him out is key. He overpowers me generally once he gets in and I find it sort of hard to prevent since he has that QD stuff and running SH fair reaches all the way across the damn screen almost.
I've slight trouble getting back onstage against him as well. Though that could just be me.

The new boomerang speed might help a bit. I generally was getting caught while trying to pull a bomb or throw the boomerang. That's mostly my fault though. I need to play more Ikes. The one I play is pretty decent, but he's no Metroid or Vro or whomever else. But that's my shallow contribution. Whee.
 

Problem2

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updates are in blue. When the page is updated again, the old update will no longer be highlighted. I'll also make a post when I'm doing an update, which will contain the change.

Update vs Wolf (8/1/13)
UPDATE (8/1/13): So NIckRiddle is correct. N-air DOES go through lasers. In fact, b-air and z-air go through lasers as well. Kind of funny that that whole aspect of Wolf was what was so scary, but now seems pretty weak.

- Wolf's lasers are CLANKABLE, therefore you can hit them away with your own hitboxes. This means you can n-air, b-air, and z-air right through them.

- Link's boomerang and arrow trade with lasers, causing both to disappear. If the Wolf aims the lasers high though, you can bounce your boomerang underneath the lasers, making the laser still disappear, but not your boomerang.
 
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monkeyx4

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Link vs Ike is easily 70-30 or 60-40 link favor . Link can **** im inside and outside, but don't go in mid rang or your going to be giving up lives. Ike is all about qd Mind games/tricks to get you in his rang. Ikes recovery basically sucks when fighting link b/c link can abuse it for example link can use his items to kill his momentum especially his arrows.

Link can also use spin attack cancel to zair edge guard easy stock for edge guarding lol ive done it before and had ike players like wtfreak. Plus you can play with so many styles with link it makes you less predictable, so that being said link have more options and advantages than ike have over link.
 

EmptySky00

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Idk. I think it's a fairly even matchup. I think 70-30 is a tad excessive. Link can't keep a good Ike player out forever <_> They're going to find an opening and take advantage.

Or maybe the new boomerang makes it THAT much easier. I haven't had a chance to play my Ike opponent with new Link yet.

And what of when he takes you to a smaller stage where you can't keep him away as easily? 6:4?
 

monkeyx4

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Idk. I think it's a fairly even matchup. I think 70-30 is a tad excessive. Link can't keep a good Ike player out forever <_> They're going to find an opening and take advantage.

Or maybe the new boomerang makes it THAT much easier. I haven't had a chance to play my Ike opponent with new Link yet.

And what of when he takes you to a smaller stage where you can't keep him away as easily? 6:4?
Your supposed to mix up your long range and inside. On small stages **** him on platform make sure he's on the platform and use alot of arrows and rang. Only take out bombs when your safe. Link's up smash is broken so use that to your advantage on platforms and up tilt.
 

EmptySky00

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Your supposed to mix up your long range and inside. On small stages **** him on platform make sure he's on the platform and use alot of arrows and rang. Only take out bombs when your safe. Link's up smash is broken so use that to your advantage on platforms and up tilt.
I realize you're supposed to mix up long range and close range. That's exactly how I play. I mix zoning and aggression. I personally think Ike wins closer up is what I'm saying. And he can get through your wall because he moves so quick. And I'm experienced enough to know not to pull a bomb when they're in my face, but he can use that time to get you into his effective range and **** you up.

DACUS under platforms is fun.

Granted, I realize my input on this matter isn't necessarly objective truth. I'm just trying to contribute to the MU thing to learn something. So if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's just my opinion from my experience against Ike.
 

EmptySky00

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How does one deal with Ivysaur's razor leaf?

If I try to Nair to beat it out, I either don't have enough space/time to do it, or I get punished. If I try to throw a bomb through it, it either goes right through it or my bomb bounces back after cancelling the razor leaf (I don't quite remember) this can have tactical applications depending on which one it is, but I'm used to bombs going through projectiles because Bwarl Link experiences.

If I try to shield it, I get grabbed. If I get hit, I get grabbed(she can grab airborne opponents for whatever reason). If I try going above her, I get anti-aired.

So, yeah. How does one ivysaur MU?
 

l3thargy

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How does one deal with Ivysaur's razor leaf?

If I try to Nair to beat it out, I either don't have enough space/time to do it, or I get punished. If I try to throw a bomb through it, it either goes right through it or my bomb bounces back after cancelling the razor leaf (I don't quite remember) this can have tactical applications depending on which one it is, but I'm used to bombs going through projectiles because Bwarl Link experiences.

If I try to shield it, I get grabbed. If I get hit, I get grabbed(she can grab airborne opponents for whatever reason). If I try going above her, I get anti-aired.

So, yeah. How does one ivysaur MU?
throw rangs?
 

EmptySky00

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throw rangs?
I Do This. But rang (I think) only outprioritizes razor leaf with the initial hitbox, otherwise it would clank and I'll have gained nothing. Rang is slower. Rang awards less pressure.

And in what world is MU advice summarized with "Use (insert staple move that I'm already using)"?
 

l3thargy

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I Do This. But rang (I think) only outprioritizes razor leaf with the initial hitbox, otherwise it would clank and I'll have gained nothing. Rang is slower. Rang awards less pressure
works just fine when you don't try to hit the projectile hoping to out prioritize it, instead try to hit the opponent with it to set something up i.e. time your throw between each razor leaf.

maybe try bomb punting your bombs over the razor leaf, power shield them, side stepping, counter pick stages.
 

FlashingFire

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One thing you can try vs. Ivysaur is jumping over the Razor Leaf, bomb in hand, and AGTing upwards while throwing the bomb downwards to beat the anti-air. From there Nair is a pretty good way to land and start some pressure. Bombs are a great tool in general here, so you can also run away and throw one over the leaf or something, provided you have room (which I assume won't be much of a problem, since Ivysaur loves having space to zone).
 

EmptySky00

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works just fine when you don't try to hit the projectile hoping to out prioritize it, instead try to hit the opponent with it to set something up i.e. time your throw between each razor leaf.

maybe try bomb punting your bombs over the razor leaf, power shield them, side stepping, counter pick stages.
And every time I throw the boomerang, a razor leaf is coming at me. I DO try to hit him, but if I do, the razor leaf catches me and the hit gets me nowhere, or the boomerang clanks with Razor leaf.

As for timing between it, Razor leaf seems to yield ridiculous stage comtrol. If I block it, I get grabbed. If I get hit, I get grabbed. etc. It's like a better, longer-lasting PK fire. Without the damage, of course.

I do like the jump over with bomb idea however. I'll take into consideration all of this upon my next attempt at his Ivysaur.
 

Fortress

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As for timing between it, Razor leaf seems to yield ridiculous stage comtrol. If I block it, I get grabbed. If I get hit, I get grabbed. etc. It's like a better, longer-lasting PK fire. Without the damage, of course.
You can AGT with a bomb over Ivy's Razor Leaf to both avoid it, approach above it, and defend yourself while doing so. I usually run forward, shorthop, toss forward, glide back, and 'block' the leaf with Link's Hylian Shield. Remember, Ivy can only have one leaf on the board at a time, so using the stage to your advantage, coupled with good AGT, it's possible to avoid the leaf and get the upper hand on Ivy while she's 'cooling down' on razor leaf.

Apart from seed bomb, razor leaf is her go-to for quick and effective stage control, so managing the attack should be a priority in the matchup. If Ivy leafs low, AGT above it and approach with an aerial. If Ivy leafs high, get a 'rang out there to exert your own zone of control, and get ready to stamp out a grab, or crouch cancel some kind of d-air approach while you're locked down on the floor.
 

Fortress

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There are other little tricks that can help in the Ivy matchup, as well. Link's clawshot can take out Razor Leaf, acting as both a defense option against Leaf and Ivy herself if she decides to get too familiar and run right up to you when you do it. Picture this matchup on Battlefield. Ivy and yourself are on the two platforms across from one another, and she hurls a leaf your way. If you've practiced the trick enough, you can do the falling spin attack (or 'edge spin attack', or whatever you'd like to call it) off of the ledge to block the leaf, approach, and get Ivy off your back while you do so. Link's got a lot of options to deal with razor leaf pressure, and put pressure on himself.

Whenever you can, avoid clashing with the leaf, and let it fly off into the distance. Remember, Ivy doesn't get another one until the first one is gone.
 

EmptySky00

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There are other little tricks that can help in the Ivy matchup, as well. Link's clawshot can take out Razor Leaf, acting as both a defense option against Leaf and Ivy herself if she decides to get too familiar and run right up to you when you do it. Picture this matchup on Battlefield. Ivy and yourself are on the two platforms across from one another, and she hurls a leaf your way. If you've practiced the trick enough, you can do the falling spin attack (or 'edge spin attack', or whatever you'd like to call it) off of the ledge to block the leaf, approach, and get Ivy off your back while you do so. Link's got a lot of options to deal with razor leaf pressure, and put pressure on himself.

Whenever you can, avoid clashing with the leaf, and let it fly off into the distance. Remember, Ivy doesn't get another one until the first one is gone.
Very helpful insight, I feel. Thanks for the advice. I try to predict the razor leaf so I can do stuff like Zair through it, but I usually don't do it fast enough or I'm not in a position to just throw out an attack to beat it out. But the not clanking is a good idea. Imma try it out (Kay) and report how it goes. Sometime. This century. Week. Whatever.
 

Sarix

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A good thing to keep in mind in the Link vs. Ivy MU is that Link's projectiles are better for forcing reactions and creating baits rather than directly pressuring the opponent. The reason being is that the speed of our projectiles when used directly at the opponent actually are more likely to give them perfect shield practice. When zoning Link typically wants to be in the air so he can utilize mobility ATs with his projectiles to maintain space but against Ivy you must pay attention to the leaf angle first. If angled low, zone as normal using the air to our advantage and even full hopping if need be. A smart Ivy likely will not angle her leaf high often since she has seed bomb to cover herself vertically along with her strong anti-airs.

Outside of bouncing the boomerang under her razor leaf we can also slide bombs along the ground under it with Zair as they are about to explode and keep her from approaching. If Link is at a reasonable distance, arcing arrows above and in front of Ivy is a nice way to indirectly pressure her and do basic fireball traps. Even if she manages to perfect shield the arrows they will either bounce away behind her or fly above Link's head as he falls.
 

Problem2

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added some of this discussion to the op. I'm still working on facing Ivy myself. When I get a solid understanding of how to fight her, I might add my own thoughts.
 

Fortress

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Some more things for the LinkxLink matchup.

Link, at his core, has an abysmal recovery that can be strongly enhanced with some advanced techniques. While the bomb recovery can help Link come back from obscene distances, it's slow, and requires Link to be relatively safe off-stage to pull off. Most of the time, Link is safe because most of the cast lacks the off-stage presence to get in the way of Link's bomb recovery, but another Link can easily take advantage of the recovering Link's hangtime and pick him off with arrows, shoot the bomb out of the air, or even harass with the 'rang if close enough.

Even if a recovering Link does pull off the bomb jump, he's still got to come back. Link's up-special off-stage is a relatively poor attack, but on-stage packs the range and power to make it a potent edgeguarding tool. When recovering as Link, one of the worst things you can do is miss the edge and recover on-stage; the up-special takes ten centuries to recover from, and Link is left helpless in his million frames of ending lag, something another Link can take advantage of with a swift up-special of his own. Moreso, even if the recovering Link has a good chance of getting that ledge sweetspot, a ledgeguarding Link can AGT bombs and pelt the recovering Link, or wait with a simple up-special gimp. The LinkxLink matchup goes in favor of whichever Link is on the stage, from my experience.
 

Hylian

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One of the worst things you can do is up-b period >_>. Links recovery is godlike if you just always tether, because it goes about the same distance as up-b and you can just cancel it into up-b if someones trying to edgeguard you. Options. Also, one of links best traits is edgeguarding, he is at an advantage in almost every match-up when his opponent is off the stage.
 

Lethalx

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Can you change the title to link Match up thread b/c when 3.0 comes out your going to have to make another thread
 

FlashingFire

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So I'm developing my Link as a secondary that can beat many of the characters my main, Snake, struggles against. Whereas Snake's weaknesses are his predictable recovery and awkward approach game, Link has a much easier time making it back onstage and can force other characters to approach in addition to having better options overall. Ivysaur is one of the characters where I prefer Link for these reasons, and there's already been a fair amount of discussion there. Any thoughts/advice on facing Marth and R.O.B.? While I have some Marth experience, all I know about R.O.B. comes from watching JCaesar vids.
 

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Link seems to do fairly poorly against rob in my experience, but does great against marth. I've only really played Oracles rob though so it could just be him being better than me.
 

NickRiddle

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Link did decently against Marth in Melee.
Link is better now, so it's probably pretty even.

I wish I had ROB exp. :(
 

Juushichi

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ROB's tools do just enough that it feels like Link really gets annoyed by them. I haven't played the MU in a while, so I can't call it.

I think Link v Marth is now even though.
 

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I would say Link vs ROB isn't really in either character's favor. Neither can really out-zone the other since Link does have the ability to put 3 projectiles on the screen but ROB's laser is fast and consistent enough to interrupt Link's attempts to set up.

It's a weird MU though imo.
 

Problem2

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Link vs Marth at worst could be slightly Marth's favor, but I speculate that it's even or in Link's favor. Link has better range now and a better boomerang in a match-up that in Melee was already not terrible.

I can't say for sure about Link vs Rob. My understanding of that match-up changes a lot as Oracle and I constantly adapt. I do know that Rob can take Link for a ride to the blast zone pretty easy, so it's important to stay near the center of the stage. When Rob air-dashes is when he's most vulnerable. It's a real opportune time to hit him with a boomerang and get a powerful follow-up. When he's on the ground though, you have to be careful with your projectiles because the spinning tackle move covers a huge distance in a short time AND it reflects your projectiles.
 

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I would say that the Link x Rob matchup is dependent on the position of the two characters, to be honest. ROB's got that aerial mobility to snuff out Link's attempts at bomb recovery off-stage, and can just snipe him while he's attempting it. Not only that, but Link suffers a bit in the air when he's getting beaten on (similarly to Snake, in my opinion), so I've got to give the aerial advantage to ROB. ROB's also got some powerful aerials that can snuff out projectiles, space him out, and move him away from Link at the same time. I feel as if ROB's bair is a godsend against Link's 'rang. It's a tricky matchup, to be sure.
 

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What do you guys think about the Link/Roy matchup? My first thought would be that it goes in Link's favor by quite a bit, but from my experience(which isn't much), it feels even or almost even.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Link has a slight advantage vs. Roy. Up close Roy doesn't do poorly, but we have any sort of camp game, and Roy's recovery is laughable.
 

linkmain1089

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
1
Hey, anyone figured out what you can possibly do against Lucario?
I play against a Lucario pretty much all the time, but I can't do anything. He reflects every projectile i throw at him right back (Even boomerangs REFLECTED on the return go right for me >.<). Any bombs that come into play he usually just picks up, and since my others are just reflected, I'm having to fight him completely without them, and when I get close range, I'm just demolished, the shield pressure is unbearable, and even if I shield his attacks he gets the cancel anyway.
His special grab with B also makes offstage/on stage unbeatable. He'll jump into me, while in the air, and grab me outside of my range, if I jump to try and avoid it or hit him, it still grabs me. Offstage him landing his grab with side B is a stock, 100% of the time, it just stalls us in mid air, so he can recover from that no problem, while I get thrown.

I honestly have stopped liking the game because of this matchup, Lucario just feels so unstoppable, and now that he gets a Charge of Aura when he spawns in, its just impossible, at least when "Don't get hit and he can't charge Aura" was a thing I had some idea of what to do.

I'm pretty much done playing the game based solely off this matchup.
 

HarryTheChin

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
815
Hey, anyone figured out what you can possibly do against Lucario?
I play against a Lucario pretty much all the time, but I can't do anything. He reflects every projectile i throw at him right back (Even boomerangs REFLECTED on the return go right for me >.<). Any bombs that come into play he usually just picks up, and since my others are just reflected, I'm having to fight him completely without them, and when I get close range, I'm just demolished, the shield pressure is unbearable, and even if I shield his attacks he gets the cancel anyway.
His special grab with B also makes offstage/on stage unbeatable. He'll jump into me, while in the air, and grab me outside of my range, if I jump to try and avoid it or hit him, it still grabs me. Offstage him landing his grab with side B is a stock, 100% of the time, it just stalls us in mid air, so he can recover from that no problem, while I get thrown.

I honestly have stopped liking the game because of this matchup, Lucario just feels so unstoppable, and now that he gets a Charge of Aura when he spawns in, its just impossible, at least when "Don't get hit and he can't charge Aura" was a thing I had some idea of what to do.

I'm pretty much done playing the game based solely off this matchup.
Here's a set of me going against a Lucario

http://www.twitch.tv/m/343357

NEVER GIVE UP. DONT LOSE HOPE.
 

Omnipresent

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
3
I'm pretty new at competitive smash, and I'm maining Link in Project M. My friends and I play a lot, but one of my friends changes his character often, and I have a bit of trouble dealing with it. So could anyone tell me how to deal with Mario, Bowser, and Captain Falcon? Tips for improvement on general gameplay with Link would be appreciated as well.
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
A problem a lot of new players fall into is trying to learn match-ups right off the bat. I recommend really focusing on your fundamentals first if you are newer, you will see much faster improvements this way in every match-up you play. Stuff like wavelanding back out of an empty shorthop to bait your opponent, general movement and edgeguarding, and mix-ups are good things to practice. Try to just view characters when you start as weight classes, fast fallers you are going to want to up throw and use links amazing juggle game against, bigger characters you have an easier time edgeguarding and faster ones you are probably going to be on the defensive more and relying on your amazing edgeguarding tools.
 

Omnipresent

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
3
Well, I'm working on my fundamentals right now, and I think my speed's faster than before, and I understand mind games and mix-ups because I used to play Brawl for a while before switching. I can L-cancel pretty consistently and know how things work in Project M, but thanks for the tips. I'll work on those. Also, if someone could also talk about the Lucas and Ness matchup, that'd be nice.
 
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