Player -0
Smash Hero
This Saturday (If I go) I'ma Up-Smash spam you so hard in friendlies. You'll know it's coming but my... Scrub
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Link Match-up Thread
- Thread starter Problem2
- Start date
AeroLink_the_SoulMaster
Let's rock, baby!
Ah, this matchup is one where you play mad keepaway until you get a hit confirm, and then you just put on the hurt with your combos. Crouch-cancel dsmash is good for punishing Marth's fair approach. If you know he's going to approach with shield, grab him. You can condition the Marth player to shield more with your boomerang, well-spaced fair, jabs, and your other projectiles. What you want to do is avoid getting grabbed the most. You can keep Marth out with all of your projectiles plus zair too once you have room to breath. In close combat, bair is the safest move as it has low startup and low cooldown; nair is also good, but for me at least, bair seems the most consistent for dealing with pressure especially out of shield (for example, you can cross-up your opponent's shield with bair to turnaround jab, then retreat by any means, or just bair and retreat). Do anything to provide breathing room so you can work your keepaway game. Another thing, I don't really see other Link players doing this, but having a bomb laid out on the ground in front of you is good for discouraging an approach from your opponent (like for instance if Marth tries to approach with fair, he risks hitting the bomb and taking damage/knockback, or you can punish the Marth player for trying to deal with your bomb, or not dealing with it all lol, if he tries to approach from the ground).
For stages, avoid small stages like Yoshi's Story, WarioWare, Fountain of Dreams, Green Hill Zone. Obviously, you're going to have to deal with at least one of these on your opponent's counterpick, so just leave out the one stage that you're the most comfortable with for a small stage. Take Marth to bigger stages as he will have trouble getting stocks off you provided you avoid getting gimped and recovery well. For striking purposes, take out Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Fountain of Dreams, and you should be good on whatever of the remaining stages you play on first.
Hope this helps.
Treat Lucas like a space animal. You don't want to be up-close by any means as Lucas' shield pressure is insane. Space with your disjointed moves and projectiles as best as you can. Nair is good for stuffing out pk freeze attempts; make sure you don't get hit by those as best as you can as pk freeze is a great hit confirm for Lucas to close in and give a world of hurt.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Warioware = Just the tip
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Yea I appreciate the input guys, I tested some stuff out with my friend, the guaranteed grab setups(Bair, rang and jab) all can be avoided by Marth if he SDI's up, but not everyone thinks to do that, when the Marth doesn't SDI though, you can D-throw -> Bair -> Re-grab, one thing that worked well at low % is Dthrow -> Nair -> Regrab, guaranteed unless the Marth SDIs away
Also I think a retreating Zair might be a good OOS option against average height opponents, it worked a few times for me quite well, still gotta test it's usefulness but someone try it out and see if it works for them, I only get practice against Melee top tiers so I'd like some input from people who play against other characters more often, when it comes to non-melee top tier characters, I don't have a clue what to do
Also I think a retreating Zair might be a good OOS option against average height opponents, it worked a few times for me quite well, still gotta test it's usefulness but someone try it out and see if it works for them, I only get practice against Melee top tiers so I'd like some input from people who play against other characters more often, when it comes to non-melee top tier characters, I don't have a clue what to do
Player -0
Smash Hero
Vs. Sonic sucks. I played vs. Darky on a Wi-Fi tournament and the shield pressure is reaaaaally annoying. You have to know the right time to jump out and Nair, typically after a homing attack. Other than that Nair plane camp and if you have some space just boomerang.
I took 2 stocks off in the Sonic ditto though
I took 2 stocks off in the Sonic ditto though
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Anaky
Smash Champion
What should I aim to do vs CF?
He gets easy damage on Link from 0%, when you get to like 80% or whatever it is, its a free uthrow to knee on Link. It'd just ridiculous.
He gets easy damage on Link from 0%, when you get to like 80% or whatever it is, its a free uthrow to knee on Link. It'd just ridiculous.
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Alright guys, how do you beat Squirtle? I can't seem to figure it out
Squirtle has armor all over the place on a ton of moves it seems, it's ridiculous, here's what I've found so far from testing in vs:
Withdraw beats out:
-Boomerang
-Jab
-Side-tilt
-U-tilt
-Fair
Squirtle's Nair also beats out Link's Nair cause of armor
I use jab, Fair and boomerang for spacing mostly so that's out
When he turns around and goes into his shell, whatever that's called, I just did a Fair on it and he took the hit and acted right out of it, it seems to have even more armor than withdraw
The only thing I can find to work on withdraw is grab, and you have to start it pretty early, and then squirtle can just jump, downsmash and spin attack beat it but Squirtle can just turn around immediately when he anticipates either and punish or just jump right over the spin attack
Shielding with draw doesn't help since squirtle can jump and Bair to keep you in shield as he floats away
This is literally the most frustrating matchup ever, Squirtle's Dsmash has armor too, he can Dsmash me through my own Dsmash
Squirtle has armor all over the place on a ton of moves it seems, it's ridiculous, here's what I've found so far from testing in vs:
Withdraw beats out:
-Boomerang
-Jab
-Side-tilt
-U-tilt
-Fair
Squirtle's Nair also beats out Link's Nair cause of armor
I use jab, Fair and boomerang for spacing mostly so that's out
When he turns around and goes into his shell, whatever that's called, I just did a Fair on it and he took the hit and acted right out of it, it seems to have even more armor than withdraw
The only thing I can find to work on withdraw is grab, and you have to start it pretty early, and then squirtle can just jump, downsmash and spin attack beat it but Squirtle can just turn around immediately when he anticipates either and punish or just jump right over the spin attack
Shielding with draw doesn't help since squirtle can jump and Bair to keep you in shield as he floats away
This is literally the most frustrating matchup ever, Squirtle's Dsmash has armor too, he can Dsmash me through my own Dsmash
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I just dsmash withdrawl or jump above it with nair and then sit on a platform. Also, if you zdrop a bomb while he's approaching you and it lands on the ground it will blow up when he hits it and knock him out of it. Link can dthrow chaingrab squirtle and do massive combos from dthrow in general. Once you learn how to deal with withdraw the match-up is pretty easy.
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Yea man I'm having a hell of a time, the bomb drop works but generally whenever a squirtle player sees me pulling one the withdraw gets to me before the animation ends, unless its a big stage, and when I Dsmash too much the Squirtle will just jump with the withdraw, Squirtle's Usmash goes through platforms so I don't like to sit there
Didn't know I could get much from Dthrow, gonna have to practice this matchup more, there's literally only 1 squirtle player in this area lol
He can't upsmash you out of withdrawl though, if you just go to the platform you can waveland off it if he's near the end or just sit near the edge and then run off rang or bomb when he gets out of withdrawl animation. Also fthrow pretty much always combos into dash attack if you don't know the dthrow stuff.
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Ah ok I never use fthrow much will try
And dude Squirtle is going throw my Dsmash now with withdraw WTF lol, I think Squirtle's startup on his withdraw has more armor, I picked a smaller stage and now the CPU is just withdrawing at me at midrange and it's beating out Dsmash, this is nuts
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Player -0
Smash Hero
SH Dair spam. Also pivot grab is awesome vs. Squirtle. You can mix the two up.
FH Dair to anticipate a jump, Pivot grab if he's rushing you.
Also be careful, Squirtle eats space REALLY fast. Like, at least half of smashville fast if he's got empty hydroplaning down. Or you could do an easy SS + SH for movement too.
Edit: Oh Yeah, be careful when on the edge. Down Smash can gimp you if you're not ready.
Edit 2: Squirtle has armor on: Nair, Down-Smash, F-Smash, Withdraw, Crawl attack.
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Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Alright Dsmash is working again, you need to do it early I guess, thanks for the help guys I think I'ms starting to understand what to do
Yeah I remember being very confused against squirtle as well but then my friend picked him up so I feel fine vs them now. It's just a weird match-up.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Can you CC withdraw?
CC > turn around f-smash/grab?
CC > turn around f-smash/grab?
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Alright I think I've got the Squirtle matchup down now, I beat Spaz's Squirtle in a mm with Link
My new problem is Lucario, what can Link do in this matchup cause I kinda get my ass handed to me half the time
Projectiles seem useless in this matchup, both Lucarios at SG just approach with their DownB and either punish my projectile animation lag or get behind me and grab
I tried downsmashing whenever they use that invincible downB approach but he still goes right through it, Spin Attack works but I always get the weak hit, which means I need to work on timing to punish this, and I'm afraid to use Spin attack too much because I don't want to stale it so I can still bomb jump
I can't CC any of Lucario's moves and he wrecks me when I try, but for some reason Lucario can CC Link's moves hard, I hit Ayman's Lucario with the strong hit of Dsmash at 140% and he went nowhere, NOWHERE what in the hell lol
Next time I wanna try running towards the Lucario when he does his DownB approach and then do a turn around grab, I wonder if Lucario can act before his invincibility ends
My new problem is Lucario, what can Link do in this matchup cause I kinda get my ass handed to me half the time
Projectiles seem useless in this matchup, both Lucarios at SG just approach with their DownB and either punish my projectile animation lag or get behind me and grab
I tried downsmashing whenever they use that invincible downB approach but he still goes right through it, Spin Attack works but I always get the weak hit, which means I need to work on timing to punish this, and I'm afraid to use Spin attack too much because I don't want to stale it so I can still bomb jump
I can't CC any of Lucario's moves and he wrecks me when I try, but for some reason Lucario can CC Link's moves hard, I hit Ayman's Lucario with the strong hit of Dsmash at 140% and he went nowhere, NOWHERE what in the hell lol
Next time I wanna try running towards the Lucario when he does his DownB approach and then do a turn around grab, I wonder if Lucario can act before his invincibility ends
Nope, I tried CC'ing it and it just sent me flying, but I think I got the matchup now, I don't use the boomerang in this matchup cause it just gets me in trouble, Squitle's withdraw goes right through it and can punish the throwing animation, I just approach with Fair and Dsmash if he tries to use withdraw
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Link beats lucario, you just have to understand what he's doing.
The only time he has an invincible hitbox out of down-b is at the start of it and if he cancels it with an aura charge. Otherwise it's inv during part of it but it's just a movement tool/crossup without a charge. If lucario is approaching with down-b a lot you can just SH a nair and your active frames will beat anything he tries out of it unless he's right beside you(he shouldn't ever be right beside you unless you are jabbing him).
CC is REALLY REALLY good against lucario. Lucarios dtilt is the ONLY move he has that breaks CC and the only move he can outspace CC with is his fsmash. Link in particular can CC lucarios entire moveset pretty much. Just CC dsmash, you just have to react fast before he gets cancels off. If lucario is CCing your stuff it means you aren't spacing well against him, he doesn't have much range and takes advantage of his opponents making mistakes most of the time. Keeping lucario in check with nairs and jabs in neutral works great, if you throw rang and he down-bs through it but is still in front of you then you can just jab him for free every time. Fade back with a lot of your moves as lucario likes to go for cross-ups and make sure to pay attention to lucario's rolling habits. Lucario has an amazing roll and you can be sure they will use it. Dash attack and rang/bomb are the only things you will really be punishing his rolls with because they are so quick unless you make a hard read.
SDI all of lucarios combos outwards, DI all of his throws away from him. SHHFL nair to jab is a great approach that beats lucarios entire neutral game, just be wary of his double team cross-ups. You never want to let lucario in on you, you don't need to go for grabs much in the match-up, lucario thrives on baiting grabs and starting his combo game up.
The only time he has an invincible hitbox out of down-b is at the start of it and if he cancels it with an aura charge. Otherwise it's inv during part of it but it's just a movement tool/crossup without a charge. If lucario is approaching with down-b a lot you can just SH a nair and your active frames will beat anything he tries out of it unless he's right beside you(he shouldn't ever be right beside you unless you are jabbing him).
CC is REALLY REALLY good against lucario. Lucarios dtilt is the ONLY move he has that breaks CC and the only move he can outspace CC with is his fsmash. Link in particular can CC lucarios entire moveset pretty much. Just CC dsmash, you just have to react fast before he gets cancels off. If lucario is CCing your stuff it means you aren't spacing well against him, he doesn't have much range and takes advantage of his opponents making mistakes most of the time. Keeping lucario in check with nairs and jabs in neutral works great, if you throw rang and he down-bs through it but is still in front of you then you can just jab him for free every time. Fade back with a lot of your moves as lucario likes to go for cross-ups and make sure to pay attention to lucario's rolling habits. Lucario has an amazing roll and you can be sure they will use it. Dash attack and rang/bomb are the only things you will really be punishing his rolls with because they are so quick unless you make a hard read.
SDI all of lucarios combos outwards, DI all of his throws away from him. SHHFL nair to jab is a great approach that beats lucarios entire neutral game, just be wary of his double team cross-ups. You never want to let lucario in on you, you don't need to go for grabs much in the match-up, lucario thrives on baiting grabs and starting his combo game up.
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Thanks for the tips man, I tried CCing and Dsmashing but Lucario kept hitting me with another move before I could get it out haha, but I'll try again. The Lucario players at SG will usually use their DownB to get behind me, I avoid using boomerang since they'll go through it and use one of their charges for an invincible hitbox, yea now I plan on jabbing and Nairing more which I wasn't doing much of in that match.
Yea I noticed that when a Lucario gets hit while in shield, they'll usually roll, guess he doesn't have good OOS options? I'll try to see if I can nail a grab off the roll, I also want to see if I can do a pivot grab when a Lucario does his DownB approach and gets behind me.
I feel like if I stay stationary and punish Lucario's approach with jabs and Utilt when he approaches with his downB that might be pretty effective
I always get afraid DIing out because of the spike grab lol it's instant death, but alright. Yea I usually do Fair -> Jab, I need to learn to space the Nair properly so I can still have some breathing room and get a jab in, does the Nair really beat everything out?
I'm gonna keep trying with Link, but I was just thinking that Zelda and Peach might be a good choice against Lucario too, you play Lucario, what do you think about those 2 matchups?
Peach is one of Lucarios hardest match-ups, that would be a good pick. Lucario isn't too bad against zelda though, he can cancel off your dins.
The spike grab doesn't work if you DI things outwards, it only works when players DI up or in.
The spike grab doesn't work if you DI things outwards, it only works when players DI up or in.
Wolf_
Smash Journeyman
Alright so always DI out, got it
And I have a good Peach sometimes, I'm really lucky with turnip draws, on average when I played her, I would get 2-3 stitchfaces, a bomb and a sword every match lol
Thanks for the tips man
Heero Yuy
#sweg
I'm starting to feel like Bair is our best option against very mobile characters such as the spacies. It's our fastest aerial and is a great option against characters who like to weave in and out of your space.
Played against Falco today and it really seemed to shut him down, especially on the platforms.
Played against Falco today and it really seemed to shut him down, especially on the platforms.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
bair has always been extremely strong. it's one of link's best mix up tools, as you have so many options out of it
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
The bair wall guys is legit guys.
Bairs and jabs make such a good wall
Bairs and jabs make such a good wall
Bair is one of his best moves, it probably has the most utility of any of his moves actually. I got so many people with bair -> waveland stuff at sktar, you guys need to get on that 
.
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Heero Yuy
#sweg
Y'know I just can't see how Link-Sheik still favors Sheik. Although she hard countered him in Melee, Link's way faster in both his moves and his mobility. His projectiles and sword are both great tools for outspacing her as well. Plus, Sheik doesn't have the guaranteed regrabs like in Melee - just DI away and you're safe. Link's grab and punish game on her is also a lot better.
I've faced a lot of Sheik players and I feel like it favors Link...Now.
I've faced a lot of Sheik players and I feel like it favors Link...Now.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Sheik just sits in a spot that makes Link uncomfortable, and crawls under a lot of out stuff.
I feel Link wins, it's just irritating.
I feel Link wins, it's just irritating.
Player -0
Smash Hero
People that crawl and make Link uncomfortable deserve the Dair spam treatment.
Paradoxium
Smash Master
so does anyone have advice on fighting against Link with Pikachu? I mainly need help against his boomerang. What i usually do is QaC like right as his boomerang leaves his hand, and it like always works. But over laggy wifi i can't time QaC good enough.
So i basically need help getting past links boomerang without using quick attack cancelling.
So i basically need help getting past links boomerang without using quick attack cancelling.
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
Just run shield or run duck and you'll be golden.
Paradoxium
Smash Master
I've already explored those options. Pikachu doesn't have a long grab range or and aerial that covers space in front of him. And most link players I've seen don't stand in place and throw boomerangs. Running up and shielding doesn't accomplish anything if Link is already moving away.
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
If the link is jumping away from you, you're winning. The goal is to force link into a bad position by playing a smart positional game. You don't have to get an immediate hit to "win" against the boomerang, when he has to retreat and is fairly easily cornered on the edge and punished hard once he can't play his spacing game.
Boomerang kind of sucks against anybody who can duck it or is fast enough to run around it, both of which pika is.
Paradoxium
Smash Master
Thanks ill try it out
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Somebody PLEASE tell me what they know about the DK matchup. I hate this matchup and the only DKs I beat are people that I'm a lot better than.
I really wanna learn how to face good DKs cuz my friend from another city is a ridiculous DK and he'll be coming to a tournament next month.
*bites fingernails*
I really wanna learn how to face good DKs cuz my friend from another city is a ridiculous DK and he'll be coming to a tournament next month.
*bites fingernails*
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Player -0
Smash Hero
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Why would he, when he can go Samus?
D-throw's actually pretty bad vs. DK, just trust me on that.
Camp him, and beware of dash-attack.
When he's off-stage, hit him with arrows until he goes low. Then drop/throw a bomb at him, and hit him out of it.
If he recovers high, knock him back off, or dair him. DK's not fast-fally, so he'll die around 115-120.
Don't get grabbed, you're probably dead.
DI traps for days.
D-throw's actually pretty bad vs. DK, just trust me on that.
Camp him, and beware of dash-attack.
When he's off-stage, hit him with arrows until he goes low. Then drop/throw a bomb at him, and hit him out of it.
If he recovers high, knock him back off, or dair him. DK's not fast-fally, so he'll die around 115-120.
Don't get grabbed, you're probably dead.
DI traps for days.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
You're the best. *sigh of relief*
I've also been studying videos like Wolf vs Poob to give me a better idea on what I'm doing. I'm definitely more confident than I was last night lol.
I've also been studying videos like Wolf vs Poob to give me a better idea on what I'm doing. I'm definitely more confident than I was last night lol.
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
Also want to chime in on the DK discussion. I had a vid of me playing against KO that I wanted to show, but again it seems it's been taken down. : /
Zair is AMAZING against the bigger/slower chars because they really can't punish it with much of anything, and it's easy to hit. Worst case, they shield it and maybe advance a small amount, but they don't get much. Out of a good Zair hit, you get Dair, Fair, or Uair (% dependent). Like Nick said, the important thing is to avoid grabs... This really isn't terribly hard because DK's grab range and speed aren't great, you just have to be REALLY conscious of your spacing, and make sure to land behind shield, etc.
Edgeguarding DK is really easy. Arrows are great. bombs are great. Falling nair on top of him is brutal for him. If he goes high (onstage), shield Up B is great. So many options.
Standing rang is pretty great in the match too... spam forever if absolutely nothing else works.
Zair is AMAZING against the bigger/slower chars because they really can't punish it with much of anything, and it's easy to hit. Worst case, they shield it and maybe advance a small amount, but they don't get much. Out of a good Zair hit, you get Dair, Fair, or Uair (% dependent). Like Nick said, the important thing is to avoid grabs... This really isn't terribly hard because DK's grab range and speed aren't great, you just have to be REALLY conscious of your spacing, and make sure to land behind shield, etc.
Edgeguarding DK is really easy. Arrows are great. bombs are great. Falling nair on top of him is brutal for him. If he goes high (onstage), shield Up B is great. So many options.
Standing rang is pretty great in the match too... spam forever if absolutely nothing else works.
Player -0
Smash Hero
How is Down Throw bad vs. DK? Does he break out faster than we can do something?
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
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DK gets launched pretty high so stuff stops being guaranteed at low-mid %.
That said, a DK above you is a sad DK, so dthrow isn't exactly a BAD option. The dthrow > utilt > bair > regrab esque stuff still works on him at low %s though.
But risk/reward is pretty skewed AGAINST your grab in this matchup. Zair (imo) is USUALLY the safer/better option, unless you get a hit-confirm into grab.
That said, a DK above you is a sad DK, so dthrow isn't exactly a BAD option. The dthrow > utilt > bair > regrab esque stuff still works on him at low %s though.
But risk/reward is pretty skewed AGAINST your grab in this matchup. Zair (imo) is USUALLY the safer/better option, unless you get a hit-confirm into grab.
Zair is actually not very good against DK at all. DK is very fast not slow and can CC dair longer than almost any character and can grab you from it leading to huge damage/death.