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Ah, this matchup is one where you play mad keepaway until you get a hit confirm, and then you just put on the hurt with your combos. Crouch-cancel dsmash is good for punishing Marth's fair approach. If you know he's going to approach with shield, grab him. You can condition the Marth player to shield more with your boomerang, well-spaced fair, jabs, and your other projectiles. What you want to do is avoid getting grabbed the most. You can keep Marth out with all of your projectiles plus zair too once you have room to breath. In close combat, bair is the safest move as it has low startup and low cooldown; nair is also good, but for me at least, bair seems the most consistent for dealing with pressure especially out of shield (for example, you can cross-up your opponent's shield with bair to turnaround jab, then retreat by any means, or just bair and retreat). Do anything to provide breathing room so you can work your keepaway game. Another thing, I don't really see other Link players doing this, but having a bomb laid out on the ground in front of you is good for discouraging an approach from your opponent (like for instance if Marth tries to approach with fair, he risks hitting the bomb and taking damage/knockback, or you can punish the Marth player for trying to deal with your bomb, or not dealing with it all lol, if he tries to approach from the ground).ok so KDJ doesn't want to use Zelda against me anymore, now it's Marth, I know a decent amount about the matchup, but anyone care to share some good knowledge on it I might not know?
Treat Lucas like a space animal. You don't want to be up-close by any means as Lucas' shield pressure is insane. Space with your disjointed moves and projectiles as best as you can. Nair is good for stuffing out pk freeze attempts; make sure you don't get hit by those as best as you can as pk freeze is a great hit confirm for Lucas to close in and give a world of hurt.Does anyone have any tips on what to do against a Lucas ?
Yea man I'm having a hell of a time, the bomb drop works but generally whenever a squirtle player sees me pulling one the withdraw gets to me before the animation ends, unless its a big stage, and when I Dsmash too much the Squirtle will just jump with the withdraw, Squirtle's Usmash goes through platforms so I don't like to sit thereI just dsmash withdrawl or jump above it with nair and then sit on a platform. Also, if you zdrop a bomb while he's approaching you and it lands on the ground it will blow up when he hits it and knock him out of it. Link can dthrow chaingrab squirtle and do massive combos from dthrow in general. Once you learn how to deal with withdraw the match-up is pretty easy.
Ah ok I never use fthrow much will tryHe can't upsmash you out of withdrawl though, if you just go to the platform you can waveland off it if he's near the end or just sit near the edge and then run off rang or bomb when he gets out of withdrawl animation. Also fthrow pretty much always combos into dash attack if you don't know the dthrow stuff.
SH Dair spam. Also pivot grab is awesome vs. Squirtle. You can mix the two up.Ah ok I never use fthrow much will try
And dude Squirtle is going throw my Dsmash now with withdraw WTF lol, I think Squirtle's startup on his withdraw has more armor, I picked a smaller stage and now the CPU is just withdrawing at me at midrange and it's beating out Dsmash, this is nuts
Yeah I remember being very confused against squirtle as well but then my friend picked him up so I feel fine vs them now. It's just a weird match-up.Alright Dsmash is working again, you need to do it early I guess, thanks for the help guys I think I'ms starting to understand what to do
Nope, I tried CC'ing it and it just sent me flying, but I think I got the matchup now, I don't use the boomerang in this matchup cause it just gets me in trouble, Squitle's withdraw goes right through it and can punish the throwing animation, I just approach with Fair and Dsmash if he tries to use withdrawCan you CC withdraw?
CC > turn around f-smash/grab?
Thanks for the tips man, I tried CCing and Dsmashing but Lucario kept hitting me with another move before I could get it out haha, but I'll try again. The Lucario players at SG will usually use their DownB to get behind me, I avoid using boomerang since they'll go through it and use one of their charges for an invincible hitbox, yea now I plan on jabbing and Nairing more which I wasn't doing much of in that match.Link beats lucario, you just have to understand what he's doing.
The only time he has an invincible hitbox out of down-b is at the start of it and if he cancels it with an aura charge. Otherwise it's inv during part of it but it's just a movement tool/crossup without a charge. If lucario is approaching with down-b a lot you can just SH a nair and your active frames will beat anything he tries out of it unless he's right beside you(he shouldn't ever be right beside you unless you are jabbing him).
CC is REALLY REALLY good against lucario. Lucarios dtilt is the ONLY move he has that breaks CC and the only move he can outspace CC with is his fsmash. Link in particular can CC lucarios entire moveset pretty much. Just CC dsmash, you just have to react fast before he gets cancels off. If lucario is CCing your stuff it means you aren't spacing well against him, he doesn't have much range and takes advantage of his opponents making mistakes most of the time. Keeping lucario in check with nairs and jabs in neutral works great, if you throw rang and he down-bs through it but is still in front of you then you can just jab him for free every time. Fade back with a lot of your moves as lucario likes to go for cross-ups and make sure to pay attention to lucario's rolling habits. Lucario has an amazing roll and you can be sure they will use it. Dash attack and rang/bomb are the only things you will really be punishing his rolls with because they are so quick unless you make a hard read.
SDI all of lucarios combos outwards, DI all of his throws away from him. SHHFL nair to jab is a great approach that beats lucarios entire neutral game, just be wary of his double team cross-ups. You never want to let lucario in on you, you don't need to go for grabs much in the match-up, lucario thrives on baiting grabs and starting his combo game up.
Alright so always DI out, got itPeach is one of Lucarios hardest match-ups, that would be a good pick. Lucario isn't too bad against zelda though, he can cancel off your dins.
The spike grab doesn't work if you DI things outwards, it only works when players DI up or in.
Just run shield or run duck and you'll be golden.so does anyone have advice on fighting against Link with Pikachu? I mainly need help against his boomerang. What i usually do is QaC like right as his boomerang leaves his hand, and it like always works. But over laggy wifi i can't time QaC good enough.
So i basically need help getting past links boomerang without using quick attack cancelling.
I've already explored those options. Pikachu doesn't have a long grab range or and aerial that covers space in front of him. And most link players I've seen don't stand in place and throw boomerangs. Running up and shielding doesn't accomplish anything if Link is already moving away.Just run shield or run duck and you'll be golden.
If the link is jumping away from you, you're winning. The goal is to force link into a bad position by playing a smart positional game. You don't have to get an immediate hit to "win" against the boomerang, when he has to retreat and is fairly easily cornered on the edge and punished hard once he can't play his spacing game.I've already explored those options. Pikachu doesn't have a long grab range or and aerial that covers space in front of him. And most link players I've seen don't stand in place and throw boomerangs. Running up and shielding doesn't accomplish anything if Link is already moving away.
@ NickRiddle Bro, we need you here.Somebody PLEASE tell me what they know about the DK matchup. I hate this matchup and the only DKs I beat are people that I'm a lot better than.
I really wanna learn how to face good DKs cuz my friend from another city is a ridiculous DK and he'll be coming to a tournament next month.