[Left 4 Scum] Game Over: Scum Win

[#HBC | Mac]

lol wtf is ronike saying.

Man, Ronike, I want to vote for you, yet at the same time, Chaco's really lame last two posts have me suspicious.

He seemed all enthusiastic about your lynch, yet when I asked why, he gave barely a sentence. That bothers me.

What's wrong with it just being a sentence?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Request Replacement for Mediocre

More later

 

[Mayling]

Kevin, how exactly is it crazy?

I'll give you a small teaser of my case: Marshy being incapped was a mistake in my opinion. A noobie mistake. For two reasons:

A) Marshy often plays like the ideal incap victim until he finds something, then goes full blast. In fact, last couple of games he hasn't even gone full blast. Which leads me to believe certain people didn't know that he was good or how good it would be to have him confirmed. Which leads me to suspect Mayling and Cello.

B) Marshy was going after Kevin, who is the person I am most certain is scum. Newbie scum, without outside assistance, tend to go after those who suspect them, and by extension in this rare case, those aligned with themselves to cover their tracks. A highly circumstancial case I realize, but then again, my main suspect of this (Circus) has plenty of other stuff against him, such as the breadcrumbing.

Also, everyone should keep in mind, the scum are stuck guessing as to who got incapped multiple times to (right tom?) so in this case they will be even further confused as to who to go after, and thus more likely to either slip up trying to communicate, not manage to get someone to 3 incaps, or all focus on one person. I think we're alright.

a) except because of KevinM questions, it was obvious that Marshy was a well-seasoned player, and things such as "having Marshy a confirmed innocent would rock socks" was said.

 

[Ronike]

To which I refer you to one of my rules:

A) Skimming is scummy

which can be obviously reversed to make

B) Scum skims

 

[Mayling]

To which I refer you to one of my rules:

A) Skimming is scummy

which can be obviously reversed to make

B) Scum skims

a) what
and
b) what

show me where i was skimming

 

[Pythag]

Presenting a meta case to divert attention.

I'm pretty sure it's all that is.

this just seemed really lackadaisical to me.
I guess I actually don't have that much of a problem with it. It did answer my question after all.

 

[Ronike]

Scum may have skimmed kevin's questions and/or not believed him. That's what I meant

 

[McFox]

It took the pressure of his mafia mate McFox because he forced me to answer/argue with him (which is generally seen as a null tell because we often don't see eye to eye) instead of argue with a floundering mcfox.

Interesting that you say I was floundering, considering I was on the attack and all you were able to come up with was OH MY GOD U SUCK over and over again.

But don't take my word for it, person reading this who isn't Ronike! Go back and check for yourself.

Also interesting that you're now pinning Marshy's incap on a n00b. I thought for sure you incapped Marshy so that you could blame me for it, considering that I said almost exactly "If I were scum, I'd incap Marshy" yesterday. I guess that was too obvious? Everyone knows it's much easier to pin a lynch on a new player (your current "suspects") rather than someone who's been playing for a while (like me).

 

[Circus]

Not down for this Ronike **** again. I'd really like to read whatever he has to say about the scum history thing, since he apparently has more to say about it than I originally assumed (I thought he was just going to skim over the games and see if he could find personalized scumtells). But what he has done so far has not seemed scummy to me. His desire to blast through D1 bothered me before, and is still not something that I like about him, but frankly, he's only gotten townier in my eyes. His point about Mayling and Cello makes a lot of sense to me, especially since I do think there's a high probability that scum are coasting in this game. It just seems even easier to do in this game than it seems in others because we have no investigative roles to look into the quiet players. Why wouldn't scum coast? We seem to have no problem letting them. I find that I'm just not getting many scum reads on the players who are actually contributing, and I believe that's because they just aren't the scum.

More from Marsh/Mac/Hando because we no longer have an obvious uncap choice.

Vote: Xiivi

Mediocre replaced yet?

 

[Xiivi]

Circus you're already voting me. You never responded to my response to you. I think you're skimming and just attempting to ride Hando's suspicion of me.

un-uncap: Handorin, uncap: Macman

Would support Kataefi/Kevin/Circus lynches. Kataefi had a bitter response to me paraphrasing his posts that rubbed me the wrong way. Kevin could have easily been diverting discussion from Ronike or McFox because of his questions (would love to see Kevin's flip before either of their's); regardless it killed the current flow of discussion. I feel Circus is skimming.

 

[Chaco]

this just seemed really lackadaisical to me.
I guess I actually don't have that much of a problem with it. It did answer my question after all.

:D

<takes up space>

 

[Circus]

Circus you're already voting me. You never responded to my response to you. I think you're skimming and just attempting to ride Hando's suspicion of me.

un-uncap: Handorin, uncap: Macman

Would support Kataefi/Kevin/Circus lynches. Kataefi had a bitter response to me paraphrasing his posts that rubbed me the wrong way. Kevin could have easily been diverting discussion from Ronike or McFox because of his questions (would love to see Kevin's flip before either of their's); regardless it killed the current flow of discussion. I feel Circus is skimming.

Skimming would not be the correct term. Hurriedly trying to catch up after missing days of chatter due to pre-Christmas scrambling would be more accurate. But it is my fault for forgetting about that. Allow me to address that specifically.

My thought process was operating under the assumption that there are four scum that most players have been operating under since Ronike first said there were four. Is there a reason that me approaching Day 2 with the same mindset I had at the end of Day 1 instead of changing it to "3 kills = 3 scum, looks like we were all being silly worrying about four scum." is scummy Circus?

There is no short answer to this question. I can only say that the only empirical evidence we have so far points to a higher likelihood of there being 3 infected rather than 4. While 4 infected is still a possibility, I see no reason to assume 4 over 3 at this point. I didn't when it was first brought up and I don't now. Unless someone has found some kind of D1 breadcrumbing that reveals scum communications in which Marsh King was heavily emphasized as an incap target, I see no reason to think that 4 is more likely than 3. Because otherwise, I would be expected to believe that, with 13 people to choose from, two of the infected managed to randomly pick the same person. That just seems too unlikely to me. I think that this is, at the very least, an unfounded assumption. And I think that talking about the incaps as if the presence of 4 infected were already a confirmed fact could be a scumslip.

 

[KevinM]

This game feels like 3 in one -_-.

 

[The Marsh King]

think a lot of people are overthinking stuff when they read this game

gonna reread today. in the meantime vote gheb because hes been acting like scum since page 1 and this hasnt change

 

[Tom]

Looking for a replacement for Mediocre.

 

[Kataefi]

I'll make a post soon. Christmas + New Year's is a lot of preparation for me!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Marshy, if you really want to lead town then you have to give us something better than "he's acting like scum". Like to know incapped people's opinion on Ronike vs McFox and the Circus / Mentos connection. Currently I don't feel we gain much by un-capping any of you except better numbers. What good does a cleared survivor do if he doesn't help to win this game? You have nothing to lose so step it up.

Mentos, Cello, Pythag and to a smaller extent Kataefi have all been suspiciously quiet toDay and I'm down for a wagon against any of those guys currently. Same for Medi / his replacement until he starts talking.

Unvote Vote Mentosman

 

[Pythag]

think a lot of people are overthinking stuff when they read this game

gonna reread today. in the meantime vote gheb because hes been acting like scum since page 1 and this hasnt change

I am so much more ok with this than Ronike lynch.

I wanted to lynch Gheb D1, no one else seemed like they wanted to.

 

[Circus]

I guess I've been missing what's scummy about Gheb's behavior. I tend to always think he's town. Anyone wanna link me to examples of Gheb's scumminess? If not, I'll try to psyche myself up to do a reread later, but a couple examples to start with would give me more incentive.

 

[The Marsh King]

reread. still think gheb is scum and down to wagon him. have some gg reads but afraid to reveal them because im not sure if thats just a horrible idea in this setup. throwing me off bad

frozen what is your read on ronike? how goes your analysis of the wagon you supported?

 

[The Marsh King]

ronike's not a bad choice either. still vastly prefer gheb but me/hando/macman are all somewhat suspicious of him so thats nice

 

[mentosman8]

Well, Ronike's case was a lot different than what I expected, interested to hear the whole thing. I definitely need to re-read this game, but that'll probly not get done till tomorrow after reading the 18 pages of Monster Island already tonight. In the meantime, still not sure what to think about Ronike, but kind of think one of him/Kevin are likely to be scum. Also, I still don't fully get the "connection" Gheb is calling between me and Circus. In fact, the only thing that could be said to fit that is if it is believed that I called out the Circus potential-breadcrumb to tell him not to do so, which I don't know why I would bother doing. May be WIFOM, but I don't see any benefit for scum to call breadcrumbs, that it seems no one has noticed, to tell them not to. The risk of that would be extremely high for the mafiats involved, and the benefit would be at most 1 scum saved. With up to 3 deaths a night(if we do in fact have four scum), 2 if we have 3, one scum would not be worth risking making a grouping apparent.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Thanks Marshy for staying as unspecific as you can in your "case" against me. It really helps a lot

Also, I still don't fully get the "connection" Gheb is calling between me and Circus. In fact, the only thing that could be said to fit that is if it is believed that I called out the Circus potential-breadcrumb to tell him not to do so, which I don't know why I would bother doing. May be WIFOM, but I don't see any benefit for scum to call breadcrumbs, that it seems no one has noticed, to tell them not to.

The benefit is to prevent him from breacrumbing more - if those breadcrumbs are really legitimate then you managed to rid us of a potentially good source of information. Additionally you also get Circus out of the heat before things get sticky for him because nobody could tell if these breadcrumbs are legitimate - you warned him before we could get that far.
Circus giving you credit for not voting Vyse confirms to me that there is a connection between you two because it goes to show that the connection works in both ways. I admit though that this makes Circus more suspicious than you and I also think his flip will give us more information in general.

Unvote

 

[KevinM]

We still have a few heavy coasters -_-

 

[Xiivi]

Any reason you aren't voting Gheb, Pythag?

 

[Handorin]

We still have a few heavy coasters -_-

I'm dying, Squirtle.

 

[The Marsh King]

deadline in less than a week its def bandwagon time. i pick gheb/ronike

also how the **** do the majority of you scramble to butter me up and uncap me and "oh marshy youre so good at this game i bet scum incapped you twice" then no one follows me

 

[Chaco]

I didn't butter you up, but I'm with you on the Ronike wagon. Which conveniently will go "Choo Choo".

 

[The Marsh King]

actually im neutral on ronike and we should def go gheb today

My gut reaction to Ronike on Day 1 was survivor after I saw the way he approached the game thinking about town and scum in normal terms instead of thinking of us as survivors.

same. there was a point at d1 where i thought ronike was obvtown then mcfox came in and they had some wall of text battles and then people were suspicious of him. can someone outline why ronike is scummy or point to posts (those walls i guess) that explain why people find him scummy?

ronike using meta is not scummy because he used it in ff7 to kick frozen's *** at endgame. null-tell. meaning chaco's justification for voting ronike is total crap

gheb is highly suspect and should under no circumstances make it to endgame

 

[Chaco]

Ronike has also promised to present this case, and has only presented a "teaser". He's using the meta case to divert attention, which is the reason I am voting for him. Not the **** meta case in itself.

 

[The Marsh King]

258, 262, 278, 341. okay. ronike can be wagoned. but gheb attacked him and gheb is so scum...tough

 

[Ronike]

Well to be quite honest, I was waiting on some reactions and to see if kevin would perhaps post his deductions from his questions, but that doesnt seem all that likely now does it?

But so at any rate, the teaser was actually most of my case, the other part was gauging the reactions, like cello predicted. Which, again, is why I've been waiting. And what do we have from my 4 suspects (Kev, Circus, Chaco, and McFox)?

Kevin: Continues his campaign of telling us all we are completely wrong in the fewest words possible, especially about the questions. My question to you all is why are you all falling for it hook line and sinker? He asked 2 of my 3 top suspects what their plan was and essentially gave them a free pass to tell him who they thought they would incap. How is that not scummy?

Circus: Lurkin like CRAZY. He's ignoring basically all things directed at him with holiday johns. Plus, he's been buddying up to me and a few other quite a bit, which makes me uncomfortable.

Chaco: Besides the initial ridiculous defensiveness when asked to list his mafia games, he has once again begun to accuse me of doing nothing and trying once again to throw suspicion at me. Just ridiculously seems like scared scum to me.

McFox: Not too much in the way of reactions, besides trying to make me out as though I'm attacking newbies, even though 2/4 players are super vets, 1 is a fairly longtime player, and 1 has been around for a few games. Interesting in it of itself.

I also was trying to judge reactions and scum tactics of the others I asked, but for the most part those 4 were the most scummy in general. If I had to replace someone, it'd prolly be Gheb instead of either McFox or Circus. I'm 99% sure Kevin is scum, and prolly 70% that chaco is.

 

[Chaco]

Ronike, why would I be scared of a non-existent case?

 

[Ronike]

Because your nervous scum. If you can give me some other reason for your jumpy and defensive behavior when asked one question?

 

[Ronike]

I'll be all ears. Phone messed up

 

[Chaco]

Because your nervous scum. If you can give me some other reason for your jumpy and defensive behavior when asked one question?

Because the question utterly and completely has no means? Why would I be nervous of information you could ever so easily gather yourself?

 

[McFox]

McFox: Not too much in the way of reactions, besides trying to make me out as though I'm attacking newbies, even though 2/4 players are super vets, 1 is a fairly longtime player, and 1 has been around for a few games. Interesting in it of itself.

Wrong. I was on your specifically for this post:

Kevin, how exactly is it crazy?

I'll give you a small teaser of my case: Marshy being incapped was a mistake in my opinion. A noobie mistake. For two reasons:

A) Marshy often plays like the ideal incap victim until he finds something, then goes full blast. In fact, last couple of games he hasn't even gone full blast. Which leads me to believe certain people didn't know that he was good or how good it would be to have him confirmed. Which leads me to suspect Mayling and Cello.

B) Marshy was going after Kevin, who is the person I am most certain is scum. Newbie scum, without outside assistance, tend to go after those who suspect them, and by extension in this rare case, those aligned with themselves to cover their tracks. A highly circumstancial case I realize, but then again, my main suspect of this (Circus) has plenty of other stuff against him, such as the breadcrumbing.

Also, everyone should keep in mind, the scum are stuck guessing as to who got incapped multiple times to (right tom?) so in this case they will be even further confused as to who to go after, and thus more likely to either slip up trying to communicate, not manage to get someone to 3 incaps, or all focus on one person. I think we're alright.

wherein you pin Marshy's incap on a new player.

But whatever. I'm dropping this for now. 1 player vs. 1 player is never a threatening situation for scum, so this is going nowhere.

Unvote

With 3 other scum left, I don't mind removing my vote from you for now.

And Marsh, in his second wall-o-text, Ronike actively lies about my positions on D1. There's plenty more as well, but I don't have time to re-make any points for now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

also how the **** do the majority of you scramble to butter me up and uncap me and "oh marshy youre so good at this game i bet scum incapped you twice" then no one follows me

Because your scumtells are absolutley awful.

 

[Pythag]

Any reason you aren't voting Gheb, Pythag?

I wanted to reread before I put my vote. I guess that's kind of silly, considering it feels like we're just RL and letting the clear(s) lead. I still wanted to recheck it. And now I have done just that.

Vote : Gheb

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And what have you found in your "recheck" that makes me worth being voted over at least 5 other suspicious players?