League of Legends uPick AWH **** ITS OVER

[Kantrip]

All this over me using the word "mislynch" in a sentence that was already assuming you were scum. There is a difference between that and ****ing acting as if the assumption is true.

"Let's assume that you can survive going through a black hole!"

"Oh sick! And you end up in an alternate dimension too!"

Does this mean I'm going to hurdle myself through a black hole? **** no. Seriously OS what is even your point here?

 

[Delita]

unvote

Kantrip is that stupid OS.


Katrip, you're misunderstanding OS' point, your logic is circular and your entire scenario hinges on us being scum and soup being town, but the only behavior which according to you, points to that, is behavior which requires that in order to be scummy. There's no evidence that your interpretation is close to the truth, it's just incredibly reaching and saying that it's not a strong read is not an excuse for being so disingenuous.

 

[Kantrip]

When did I use that sentence as any part of a basis for my scumread on your slot? Never. That was never reaching because it was NEVER PART OF MY CASE.

 

[Delita]

You're relying on your hypothetical situation to carry your argument however.

Given that forcing people to take stances that a scum would eventually have to violate is a tactic favored by both myself and OS, your only remaining evidence is the scenario itself. So either it's circular, or non-existent.

If it's simply a gut read, just say it, pretending it has actual reasoning behind it only serves to confuse town.

 

[Delita]

Vote: Gova

You're reading really wishy washy, scumreads please.

 

[Kantrip]

You're relying on your hypothetical situation to carry your argument however.

Given that forcing people to take stances that a scum would eventually have to violate is a tactic favored by both myself and OS, your only remaining evidence is the scenario itself. So either it's circular, or non-existent.

If it's simply a gut read, just say it, pretending it has actual reasoning behind it only serves to confuse town.

There was. No. ****ing argument.

I didn't use that phrase for ANYTHING. I simply used the word mislynch.

If I'm scum and I lynch town LAK, that's a mislynch too. Big whoop. It means nothing on its own and I USED IT FOR NOTHING. HOLY ****

 

[Kantrip]

So yes, it's non-existent. It never was existent. Have you read the sentence in question or are you just assuming I thought it held any significance at any point? Like seriously this has been the stupidest ordeal over NOTHING.

 

[Delita]

There was. No. ****ing argument.

I didn't use that phrase for ANYTHING. I simply used the word mislynch.

If I'm scum and I lynch town LAK, that's a mislynch too. Big whoop. It means nothing on its own and I USED IT FOR NOTHING. HOLY ****

You're saying you didn't make an argument that I'm scum?

I agreed with Delita's attacks on Soup's logic but don't think he's doing anything townie with it. I think it's scummy because he is discrediting soup and making it so anything soup uses in his defense is hypocritical and looks bad. He's asking questions that can only serve to make that happen, and I don't feel he was ever really delving into finding soup's alignment, nor has he stated one. This is scummy. Possible town intent is that he is... getting reactions? Possible scum intent is making soup contradict himself which will lead to a blunder that can form the basis of a mislynch, as well as creating false connections (such as Delita/Kantrip due to his chainsaw on soup, defending me). False connections is something I know that Overswarm likes to employ as scum. If there's some town intent I'm missing to calling soup's **** out without actually going into the alignments of any involved players (with statements or questions), could someone share it with me?

This isn't an argument for why I'm scum? I can take out a dictionary and this is a textbook example of explaining your reasoning in a way to convince somebody else.


Look, I know you've gotten frustrated but you gotta recognize something in mafia, it's not whose right that matters. It's what's right. When you're wrong about something in mafia you don't to eek out a semantic victory so you don't "lose" the argument. You drop it.

This is really a textbook example of this, saying that you didn't "argue" anything because you didn't use the actual word, even though you did exactly what the word described.

That's probably the most important thing you can learn as a town player.


I'm pretty convinced you're town so there's no more reason to continue this line of discussion, but I suggest you think on what I said.

 

[Kantrip]

No, I made an argument that you were scum.

The sentence in which I said you being scum and lynching town soup would = a mislynch was NOT a part of any argument for you being scum.

This isn't ****ing rocket science

 

[Kantrip]

Like seriously, sure it's in that post, but it is unrelated to my points against you.

 

[Kantrip]

****. I'm going to drop this because you're right that it's not accomplishing anything. Let's just agree to disagree because we're obviously not going to reach an understanding.

 

[Raziek]

Vote: Delita

More when not on phone, but how the **** are you not getting what Kantrip was trying to say? It isn't ****ing rocket science.

He spoke under the context of his current set of assumptions (his stances), and did not once try to use that to call you scum. He was defending himself from your alleged "scum slip".

The fact that you seem like you intentionally didn't get that and tried to wall him down is a large part of why I'm voting you.

I can't see how you can so blatantly misconstrue a very clear intent for him to defend himself as calling you scum for circular logic.

 

[Raziek]

**** it, more while on phone. Getting caught up from last post.

 

[Raziek]

Liked Ruy's 247. Leaning Town.

Zac's 251 is hollow and vague. Null in itself, but I don't like that he attacks me for lack of committal later on given that his current stances are pretty trash in terms of actually substantiating.

Delita's posts in p.7 will need quoting to deal with. Bus pulling in.

 

[Raziek]

One thing I want to say though is that I don't like Delita's style and I find myself annoyed by him playing armchair in 50% of his posts. This is just a gripe, not a concern. A lot of your walls conclude with you lecturing the player instead of objectively questioning them, it's really unnecessary and your opinion isn't law.

Just a suggestion?

Thisthisthis.

Delita's 298 leaves an awful taste in my mouth, but I'm gonna need to quote it and break it down into how much is armchair and what I think is actually scummy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Willing to Dayvig Delita if he posts another 328. Dislike Gova vote. He asks for stances in a scenario where he's already offered them after X amount of time and did not act like he had a problem with the arrangement. Acting detached and above the game makes him nigh impossible to read.

Cop Raz, imo.

Reading what's not on this page.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Delita, will talking to you even be worth it for me?

Reason why you only now have a problem with Gova when there were no posts in between and you've shown no signs of it? What do you think about UTDZack? What's your take on Kevin's gut read?

If I don't shoot you toDay, who do I shoot?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes it's a reasonable vote. I've been mostly quite during the early part of Day 1. I've thrown out a few reads, ignored some discussion. Seems reasonable to me. I'm not gonna get my panties in a wad cause someone is throwing their vote at me; that's expected eventually.

Missed this gem. Warning: you should never piss off Ryker when he draws Day Vig. It leads to impulsive actions that you would not enjoy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Allow me to but into your argument with Delita for a moment.



Do you really think that Delita was setting up a mislynch so early? Do you really think I would go down this easy? I want you to look at my points I made, and then consider your own. This isn't about having the wrong logic, it's about you making something faulty and grasping on oeverexaggerated ideals based on god knows what.

Ugh, I wanted to post that I liked Soup, then I read this sequence. On the whole, I still like him.

That logic is so terribly faulty. He doesn't have to set-up a mislynch as hypothetical scum. That would help him, but all he needs is to be seen starting things up and to possibly get something to stick so that you get held at arm's length later in the game. If he doesn't get it, fine, but he can still fish.

Why WOULDN'T scum try and set-up a mislynch that early? They just don't have to go all-in.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want anyone who's reading UTDZac as scum to give me reason that doesn't involve the words "Noob." I don't see anything specifically telling.

Arbitrary reads that are not substantiated.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

My heartstrings are being tugged, Ryker.

Not seeing it. Call me stubborn but I've dealt with worse players and worse situations. Maybe if he keeps it up and doesn't come to conclusions.

Okay, you're stubborn. There's more than enough out there at the moment to have reasonable reads on SOMETHING.

 

[Delita]

Vote: Delita

More when not on phone, but how the **** are you not getting what Kantrip was trying to say? It isn't ****ing rocket science.

He spoke under the context of his current set of assumptions (his stances), and did not once try to use that to call you scum. He was defending himself from your alleged "scum slip".

The fact that you seem like you intentionally didn't get that and tried to wall him down is a large part of why I'm voting you.

I can't see how you can so blatantly misconstrue a very clear intent for him to defend himself as calling you scum for circular logic.

You misunderstand.

We were talking about his scumread in general, OS thinks that the usage of the word myslynch was a scumslip. I do not. He finally made it clear that he was still talking about the word mislynch when we were talking about the scenario's substantiation after we had established our townread so the conversation was no longer relevant.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Delita, do you stick by him using you mislynching scum as a reason to lynch you? Because you're in the wrong there and a little birdy once told me you're supposed to drop semantics arguments if you're wrong.

 

[Delita]

Delita, will talking to you even be worth it for me?

Reason why you only now have a problem with Gova when there were no posts in between and you've shown no signs of it? What do you think about UTDZack? What's your take on Kevin's gut read?

If I don't shoot you toDay, who do I shoot?

Depends on which head you talk to, the past few posts were Adumb's. I know it'll be worth it to town, which is what is important.

I agree with him on the Gova pressure though; the reason we haven't showed any signs of it is because you can't read our hydra QT. Posting about it in here during the kantrip/soup talk wouldn't have done much good.

From the activity reading, he's the only one that is straddling the line between active and inactive. He's the only "playing the fence" so to speak; even the vague players like RainbowFingers and KevinM that are at least semi-present for all debates have made some sort of stance. UTDZac is in a similar boat, but is open about his "null" reads and it is entirely understandable as an approach, especially with someone from the BBR. Pierce played the same way. If it continues I'll have a problem with it, but I don't personally see an issue with it for now.

Gova though seems to be avoiding intention.

As for me, Kevin's gut read is irrelevant. I dislike Raziek's play but I don't have any reason to suspect why scum Raziek would, in the opening of the game, do the following:

• defend another player before they post a rebuttal
• do so against a hydra of two of the more aggressive players in terms of questioning (no one we're questioning really gets out of the limelight until we're done, if you haven't noticed)
• do so early enough to where any attempt at getting a lynch out of it is futile, so it literally is only calling someone out and nothing more
• Not continue to push for a lynch on the slot or judo it into another player

Really it just risks him blowing any semblance of cover and puts him at risk of cop/vig or, if town reacted violently, a lynch. I don't see a reason to see Raziek scum doing that. It's possibly he simply made a mistake, but that action alone doesn't seem to signify anything negative for me.



If you're worried about talking to me being "worth your while" Ryker, I have a compromise for you:

Don't.

Instead, take point on Gova or Rainbow Fingers. Your choice of the two, I'd like to hear more from both. You can choose the content.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I didn't see, did you ever answer the questions I posed you earlier? Not here recently, but the last time I posted.

~dip

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Saw post directed at me, will read later.

 

[Delita]

Delita, do you stick by him using you mislynching scum as a reason to lynch you? Because you're in the wrong there and a little birdy once told me you're supposed to drop semantics arguments if you're wrong.

I don't think him using the word mislynch is a scumslip. It's possible, but doubtful.

I think the premise of him thinking I was scum hinged on him assuming I was scum in the first place, which is idiotic and faulty. You'll note that Kantrip agrees with me, calling it an assumption, reaching, a weak stance, and not a 100% read back to back in several posts.

Him using the word "mislynch" was a question I asked earlier and Kantrip panicked on it.

The point is, Kantrip was using circular logic to argue that my intentions were scummy. Simply by the actions being beneficial for scum to do if I was scum and Soup was town was enough for him to assume I was scum. You can use the same logic for anyone doing anything; if you start off an argument by assuming someone's alignment and then decide you're right simply because the actions add up, you're setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"Ryker threatened to Dayvig UTDZac. I'm going to assume Ryker is scum. If Ryker is scum, then UTDZac must be town if he uses his dayvig on him, so why would Ryker want to dayvig a town UTDZac? He must be scum."

He has since stated that his assuming I was scum wasn't part of his argument, but reading the thread you can see his initial vote was placed on me because he assumed Soup was town and I was scum looking to make Soup get mislynched.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Doing something in the ware house at work, relegated to my iPod.

@First post - Pleasantly surprised and wish you would be clear with what you want done. Do you want Gova lynched based on his current stand off play or do you possibly want him lynched based on his response to you?

I'm actually content with Gova for about another 24 hours because I've actually talked to him about mafia and I remember FFT and Hentai II where he did jack **** at the start of the game as town. I also remember RO where he did it as scum, which is why I am trying to push him to action without trying to put him on high alert.

Rainbow Fingers needs to play the game. I don't know where you get a sense that he's done anything. I really don't give Xonar anywhere near as much leash as I would give Gova. If I'm interpreting your question right, I want an analysis of your slot (read: a read and why it is there and why it is however strong it is) and to know why they aren't voting UTDZack.

On the whole, I am much less concerned with your ability to play puppet master and bait reactions. You can play just fine with more cards on the table. I am more concerned with being able to make the read on your slot, so I would rather see your ideas than hear that they were in a hydra QT.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Vote: Delita

More when not on phone, but how the **** are you not getting what Kantrip was trying to say? It isn't ****ing rocket science.

He spoke under the context of his current set of assumptions (his stances), and did not once try to use that to call you scum. He was defending himself from your alleged "scum slip".

The fact that you seem like you intentionally didn't get that and tried to wall him down is a large part of why I'm voting you.

I can't see how you can so blatantly misconstrue a very clear intent for him to defend himself as calling you scum for circular logic.

I'll do more than skim later, gotta go work out and job hunt for the Winter.

 

[Delita]

Willing to Dayvig Delita if he posts another 328. Dislike Gova vote. He asks for stances in a scenario where he's already offered them after X amount of time and did not act like he had a problem with the arrangement. Acting detached and above the game makes him nigh impossible to read.

Cop Raz, imo.

Reading what's not on this page.

OS acted like he didn't have a problem with the arrangement, I did not. It's not the arrangement that bugs me anyway, it's how wishy washy his posts were up to this point. To be honest, I wasn't even really engaged in the game at that point so I didn't notice it, it only really came up on a reread.

Delita, do you stick by him using you mislynching scum as a reason to lynch you? Because you're in the wrong there and a little birdy once told me you're supposed to drop semantics arguments if you're wrong.

I answered this in the post before you answered, but couldn't hurt to be clear.

He misread the evolution of the conversation, when we had moved on to a different but related topic he still thought we were talking about using the word mislynch itself. By the time this became clear the discussion no longer served any useful purpose.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Second post - Ehhhhhhhh, I don't like that at all. An action being beneficial to scum, even if it could be benefiial to town, is oftentimes valid reason to call someone scum. If not, then how do you catch anyone? Need to read it again.

On the whole, I don't get how you could possibly call that a scum slip.

 

[Raziek]

I've done that once already to Soup.

Seeing **** I disagree with is a common thing that moves me to post, take a side, and is how I tend to form reads. If I take someone's side and it starts to feel wrong, that's a good indicator for me to re-evaluate my read on the slot.

Yes, it is a chainsaw defense. Am I scum for it, LAK?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want the LAK slot to drop dead and I want to see the evolution of this conversation, but I figure you're correct and will award you the point for now.

I think you may have already said, but what was your take on Kevin?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dip for real.

 

[Delita]

Doing something in the ware house at work, relegated to my iPod.

@First post - Pleasantly surprised and wish you would be clear with what you want done. Do you want Gova lynched based on his current stand off play or do you possibly want him lynched based on his response to you?

I'm actually content with Gova for about another 24 hours because I've actually talked to him about mafia and I remember FFT and Hentai II where he did jack **** at the start of the game as town. I also remember RO where he did it as scum, which is why I am trying to push him to action without trying to put him on high alert.

Rainbow Fingers needs to play the game. I don't know where you get a sense that he's done anything. I really don't give Xonar anywhere near as much leash as I would give Gova. If I'm interpreting your question right, I want an analysis of your slot (read: a read and why it is there and why it is however strong it is) and to know why they aren't voting UTDZack.

On the whole, I am much less concerned with your ability to play puppet master and bait reactions. You can play just fine with more cards on the table. I am more concerned with being able to make the read on your slot, so I would rather see your ideas than hear that they were in a hydra QT.

Rainbow Fingers has done about as much as KevinM. It isn't much, but they've both made some sort of concrete stance. I like stances, they're easier to come back to than just intention.


Moving on, I don't really care what you are personally concerned with in regards to our play. If you can't read our slot, I suggest asking questions than asking us to play at a level you can more readily understand or to leave it to others that can.

Now I'll give you my compromise again, and this time I'd very much appreciate a response to it.

Don't converse with me, and instead converse with Gova or Rainbow. Your choice. You don't even have to respond to me here, just start questioning them.

That means not hiding questions to them in posts to me and hoping they stumble across them. Direct questioning to a specific individual, preferrably with followups.

 

[Raziek]

unvote

Overswarm makes me hate the slot a lot less.

OS, can you please tell Adum to stop being a belligerent armchair turd?

Also, can you give me your current opinion on LAK?

 

[UTDZac]

@Mod, requesting replacement (temp or permanent)

My apologies for lack of involvement thus far. I've gotten quite busy and will remain so throughout this week and all of next week. It slipped my mind when I signed up that I would be gone for an entire week, as well as being incredibly busy prior to the trip.

 

[Raziek]

I don't think there is such thing as "temporary replacement".

Closest thing would be replacing in a hydra of you and someone else, and having them play the slot until you can commit time.

 

[Delita]

If I make you want to not lynch the slot and adumb makes you want to lynch the slot, either you're voting for the wrong reasons or I'm manipulating you. Choose your targets more carefully.

LAK has a strong town read for the moment. This could change down the road but he's near the bottom of who I want to hear from. Adumb may feel differently, we haven't had this slot as a discussion point.

LAK has been present and observant, and despite being prominent or visible has had a bead on you all game, which I can agree with. Questions have been to the point with no drama and while LAK could be entirely out of the limelight, instead they come in posting pictures of a chainsaw (and accurately so).

For someone to play in this manner with a focus on a singular player means that they are a horrible indie, or a town member who isn't into posting that much.

I'm sticking with a town LAK read for a while; this may change down the road, but there are a number of players that I'd like to hear more from that don't feel as good.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Man, but I hate just about everything to do with your approach to the game.