Mastermind Super Fiend
Ranmaru|SummonerAU
Ryker, why is Raz town to you?
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The case is somewhat there but not enough work on it, it's one of my weaker reads in my case but essentially the play is not viable because he's not being considered as much as say Kev or Gova atm, so its a mixture.Do you think he isn't a play because there isn't a case on him yet, or just because deadline is so close?
Underlined, I see this is a stretch, to get the ball rolling in RVS.UTDZac
If I were to guess that you've played mafia before but this is your first game in a while, would I be correct? What's your experience like? How about if I were to guess that you sharing your story about losing to Zilean is an attempt to make people feel sorry for you?
Vote: UTDZac
A feigning of 'scumminess' to get info. Again, nothing bad on the surface, yet I feel it is done overall to benefit scum. Keep on following to see why.Exactly. That's why this isn't the same as what I did to your Zilean mention at all. Derp.
Would anyone else care to hop on this wagon? We've got a scummy on our hands here for sure. Back later.
Here is why I start to feel Kantrip's early actions were him trying really hard to seem town. There was no reason for him to be asking me to explain the vote, when Inferno could have done this himself. Basically, the reason why I find it benefiting scum beneath the surface, is because he is focusing on his image, which I find is something scum would want to do. This doesn't ring alot of bells alone, but in conjunction with his whole play, it does. Keep reading baby.Explain this vote.
If it's just RVS, why are you ignoring the UTDZac wagon?
This seems like a rvs/suspicion thing to get things going, and it shows that Kantrip was confident of what he was doing. Yet this still reeked of him trying really hard to be pro-active.That would be JTB with the sample role PM.
FoS: Kevmo
In the bold, this is the root of Kantrip's argument against Delita. Now, he jumps to the conclusion that Delita is trying to make soup seem scummy without really giving a stance themselves, but Kantrip didn't look at the possibility of Delita doing this to get some serious discussion.As far as the Delita/soup exchange goes.... I do agree with the things you said regarding his qualms with me being things he himself is guilty of. I find it off, however, that you are discrediting everything soup is trying to say, shutting him down and stopping possible content in its tracks. You are white-knighting MY slot more than Raz white-knighted soup. What I dislike is that you're doing this without even making a comment as to any of our alignments. What is your read on soup after this? What do you make of Raz defending him? If I'm being honest, I think you are completely in the right with what you're saying to soup, but you're not doing anything townie about it and you're scummier overall in the exchange. Especially if soup was going for reactions from me, which you essentially ruined by shutting him down before I could respond.
While cute and manipulative and all, why do you need to defend me? You're not hunting for scum, you're hunting for a way to make soup slip up and look like scum.
Vote: Delita
Can other people tell me I'm wrong, or is Delita really obviously scum here?
Plum, I don't like that he says "oh no the walls" when he was contributing with walls himself. It doesn't seem sincere.Oh no all the walls.
Since I hated soup's RVS crap, I got how I did as a response to him. Doesn't mean I find him scummy, but I would love to see a playstyle change.
Since I find Delita's attack to have very little town intent and lots that it can accomplish for scum, I'm voting him. I would like more people to vote with him, unless they disagree with my reasoning. In that case, please say why.
At this point, I would feel Soup could have stated that his actions were suspicious. It is good to ask these questions to understand what Kantrip was thinking, yet I also think Soup should have stated what I will state right now:Kantrip, looking at your case doesn't convince me of your stance on him. You're giving Delita this huge persona in your eyes that he's a mastermind of mafia and he's trying to make me slip up. Why isn't he just questioning me for the sake of questioning? Your #231 states that he isn't trying to discern to my alignment. Why? What makes him different from anyone else who would question me? Think about the allusion I stated before you answer this. Why is Overswarm so special?
Kantrip is trying to make it seem like Delita is not discerning Soup's alignment, while Delita never gave alignment reads on either Soup or Kantrip, and was just arguing to argue. This is suspicious and feels like Kantrip drawing a conclusion which isn't happening.Maybe I'm wrong, but I see more pointing out double standards and telling you that you're wrong from him than any questioning. What he is doing is not trying to discern your alignment because he's just shutting down everything you're trying to do.
The one redeeming point is that he is telling every other player slot to comment on the whole ordeal, which is something he has been very adamantly pushing for. This is working towards getting opinions out there to find scum, trading walls with you wasn't.
In the red, he Kantrip asks what Delita got alignment wise on Soup and others who have commented. What is suspicious here, is that he didn't ask Delita this before, and accused him of not trying to discern Soup's alignment. I just feel this is something he should have waited on, before bringing that argument. That is why I feel his 'hastiness' is suspicious, since he was jumping to conclusions without letting things develop first.Oh, awesome. You're done with your pursuit of Soup? What did you discern about his alignment as a result of completing your line of questioning on him? What did you get about other player's alignments by keeping track of who did or didn't respond?
In the case of you being scum, soup is not a partner. This I have stated. So, for this scenario, your push on him would be a push for a mislynch. When I am talking about a scenario, I don't dance around with "maybes" and "if x then y's". If you are scum and are trying to make soup slip up, then he is town and it's for the purpose of a mislynch.
To clarify, that doesn't mean you are 100% scum and he is 100% town, by any means.
This quote feels more like coaching and I don't really get why Soup is always having him 'reconsider' things instead of actually using that as points to accuse him for.Bolded, I don't understand this line at all. Wasn't your reasoning for Delita scum that he's shutting down any progression that I'm trying to do, not that what I did deserved to be shut down? Rethink this.
Soup makes a good point here, and this is something suspicious coming from Kantrip.Allow me to but into your argument with Delita for a moment.
Do you really think that Delita was setting up a mislynch so early? Do you really think I would go down this easy? I want you to look at my points I made, and then consider your own. This isn't about having the wrong logic, it's about you making something faulty and grasping on oeverexaggerated ideals based on god knows what.
This is something I feel Soup isn't considering himself. Everyone is afraid of getting it wrong on Kantrip for always being weird, and I have seen it many times. Just look at NecroMafia where I thought he was OBV scum for not reading at all yet still voting opportunistically OFF the wagon of scum. (He was townI want someone who's not scumreading Kantrip to tell me a reason that doesn't involve the word "Meta."
Don't like this either. He is coaching Kantrip and I just don't find his 'bad town' read on him sincere. (This is why I asked him to go into why he felt he was bad town in a short paragraph) I also find his vote and unvote of Kantrip insincere, because he doesn't really use it on Kantrip, and doesn't keep it there long enough to give some more information.Your questions have been completely hollow and pointless, your reads unsubstantiated, your attacks lack any resemblance of a bite, and town as a whole has absolutely no reason to trust your judgement over their own.
If you want to be helpful, I'd suggest letting the inactives post or goading them into activity rather than professing shallow reads related to the two most open posters in the game and refusing to answer questions directed at you because you personally don't see the point.
Just a suggestion.
Red, I don't like this statement, it feels as though Kantrip is backtracking from his strong Delita scumread, due to Soup pressuring him. This is why I ask if Kantrip can go back to his 'reading' of Delita.Just an FYI, none of my stances are strong. Everyone seems to be clinging to things I say: "reachy strong town read on MSF" -Ryker and "making Delita scum of the month" -soup
Neither of those stances are concrete. I never even claimed the MSF read was anything more than a slight town read (always subject to change, and this goes without saying). The Delita scum read I have been pushing a lot more strongly, it IS reaching, but I feel like that's an effective way of getting people to pay attention to stances.
My stance on you, soup, is that I don't like your play. It's grating on me, but it's null. Every time I play with you is the same ****, and it's just something about the way you like to latch onto my early D1 playstyle and either try to armchair critic it or tunnel it into the ground.
Distracting as ****, and I'm going to be focusing on other things than answering the same questions multiple times. What is your stance on Raziek?
Not liking this, because he is asking him to prove him wrong, and isn't really pressuring him much, just arguing and it seems he is arguing so he can come to a better conclusion of Kantrip. The reason why I feel this way:I don't think you're being genuine with it but it's an old matter. You yourself said you're reaching a bit but I don't want you to feel like you need to back down from Overswarm because he makes a lengthy post or two and criticizes you. Chin up.
By the way, you're absolutely right. You're a player who I feel reacts well to reactions and early pressure, this meshes into your mentality of having to be right everytime. Right now I feel that's the only thing I would reconsider and you're feigning your own confidence while not being certain yourself. Can you prove me wrong on this?
This also shows that Soup was not interested in anyone that was active, but doesn't really show why.I might unvote. Respond to me Kantrip and we'll go from there. Not interested in anyone who has been posting really.
The scenario was Delita being scum, which was what you were pushing for. I find this suspicious, as if Kantrip is trying to backtrack from Delita's pressure by saying that it had nothing to do with his actual reasoning. What he fails to see here, is that Delita mentions that it is illogical for Kantrip to state that 'scenario' to clear Soup as not a partner, since Delita never gave a read on Soup, nor was he pushing for a lynch on Soup in the first place.Not even a little bit.
It is a theoretical scenario. For the purposes of what I am detailing, I am saying that Delita is scum. Therefore, since he is theoretically scum, soup is theoretically town. Ergo, Delita lynching soup would be a mislynch. Never was I using that as reasoning for OS scum. Like seriously how does that not make sense to you?
Delita votes Kantrip for being stupid, but not for being scum for his argument. I don't know why OS voted him, and I think he should clarify what he felt his vote on Kantrip meant at this time.Vote: Kantrip
No one is this stupid.
Kantrip replies very emotionally back towards Delita, which I feel is an over-reaction, and not one I like. It feels forced. The red entails what I dislike the most. There was no reason for Kantrip to blow up like this, and he could have explained his mindset with a calm demeanor.I'm thinking the same thing about you right now holy ****. What part aren't you getting?
I'm just gonna leave this be. I'm not getting anything from Delita but walls and anger, so I'll come back to the slot later. Null until I do.
Vote: UTDZac
I don't like this from Delita, because Adum explains to me that he feels a vote should be a resource, yet he just shut down what that vote on Kantrip could have brought to the table. There was no reason for him to unvote, and OS never really went into why he did this. It just feels vague. I want him to clarify this.unvote
Kantrip is that stupid OS.
Katrip, you're misunderstanding OS' point, your logic is circular and your entire scenario hinges on us being scum and soup being town, but the only behavior which according to you, points to that, is behavior which requires that in order to be scummy. There's no evidence that your interpretation is close to the truth, it's just incredibly reaching and saying that it's not a strong read is not an excuse for being so disingenuous.
In this post: Post #231When did I use that sentence as any part of a basis for my scumread on your slot? Never. That was never reaching because it was NEVER PART OF MY CASE.
Kantrip stated that it was not, so do you see that it as scum motivated?You're relying on your hypothetical situation to carry your argument however.
Given that forcing people to take stances that a scum would eventually have to violate is a tactic favored by both myself and OS, your only remaining evidence is the scenario itself. So either it's circular, or non-existent.
If it's simply a gut read, just say it, pretending it has actual reasoning behind it only serves to confuse town.
Kantrip, why are you getting so frustrated and emotional over this? This to me, seems telling because it feels like you have been caught and are over-reacting here.So yes, it's non-existent. It never was existent. Have you read the sentence in question or are you just assuming I thought it held any significance at any point? Like seriously this has been the stupidest ordeal over NOTHING.
This is the end of the Delita/Kantrip interaction. It doesn't really help Delita get a better read, it only helps Kantrip realize his argument wasn't accomplishing anything. I also didn't see why Delita voted Kantrip. This argument, along with Soup V Kantrip, was another waste.****. I'm going to drop this because you're right that it's not accomplishing anything. Let's just agree to disagree because we're obviously not going to reach an understanding.
I find myself liking this more than I thought I would to be honest. I didn't like his vote on Gova either but I don't understand why you yourself are now trying to ignore the prevalent statement of Kantrip just being Kantrip. Why is his vote on Gova specifically telling to your case? Where does it hold barring? I understand that your full argument is Kantrip is trying too hard to be town and maybe stretching his boundaries of his own meta (at least what I get from it) but what I want to know is him not revisiting his read on Delita is telling along with him jumping on Gova. It doesn't make sense with your case at hand.Conclusion:
I feel Kantrip overall has been trying to seem town to get a good position in the game (as scum), yet backfired because he was too hasty in accusing Delita by jumping to conclusions. He mentions that Delita wasn't trying to discern his alignment, when Delita openly stated that he didn't feel strongly about either him or Soup, so he was attributing a fake intention to Delita, who was openly saying he was just questioning soup. Kantrip later on doesn't ever re-visit his read on Delita, and just sheeps onto Gova.
This is why I feel Kantrip is scum. This is the best D1 lynch, due to scumminess, and connections. Everyone that is afraid of him being derp town, look harder and ask yourself:
If anything, it makes me like him more he's not doing this. You can't always expect players to act the way you want them to and if you do let yourself to believe they're going to then you will likely end up getting burned. Instead of saying "I would expect Ryker to do something like this..." you should be saying "I wonder why Ryker is doing something like this..."Kantrip said:Still have a bad gut feeling about Ryker. Almost a self-preservation kind of feel. He's not being as aggressive as I would expect. Especially with the role he has claimed.
I leave my browser open while playing LoL. Why did my smash scene get me so addicted to this?J, always viewing, never posting.
I really like this post.@Soup:
I'm not ignoring Kantrip's meta, I'm keeping it in mind. People shouldn't be afraid of lynching him because he acts defensive alot, people should be looking in between the lines, and I feel I have done this and hope others can see what I see. His vote on Gova is telling because he isn't using the position he gained [sort of] to find scum. He's just laying low, and not trying as hard to find scum, as hard as he was trying to seem town in the beginning of the game; while just sheeping Delita and voting Gova due to one flimsy connection. His delay in re-visiting Delita isn't genuine to me, because I feel it has been long enough to cool off from that brash interaction he had with Delita. If he really cared about his scumread on Delita, he would go back to it and try to figure it out, yet he hasn't.
That doesn't do ****. You only show up as viewing the game when you refresh the page, so each new hit.I leave my browser open while playing LoL. Why did my smash scene get me so addicted to this?![]()
I didn't know that.That doesn't do ****. You only show up as viewing the game when you refresh the page, so each new hit.