L cancel, Sonic specific, video proof soon.

[infomon]

lol k

Dnes is just talking about starting side-B before landing and immediately SDJ'ing out of it? That's not very useful IMO. Ah well.

 

[Morrigan]

Still though, it's Box Canceling, and it has some real application.

My reasoning behind this was to see if I could get as many people with this as Zeal did with the 2xDsmash crap.

:O

Does it cancel a hit box? or is it a hurt box? does it only work against Snake's box? I wonder....

 

[Camalange]

lol k

Dnes is just talking about starting side-B before landing and immediately SDJ'ing out of it? That's not very useful IMO. Ah well.

It gives you better aerial DI, better aerial speed, and basically makes stringing attacks easier. Not only that, but the SDJ itself has a hitbox. I think it could become pretty useful.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Not as useful as giving sonic good, real combos.

 

[infomon]

I understand SDJ and VSDJ. I've also used this in matches; landing a charging side-B to immediately VSDJ off the ground. I said it's not very useful, but it comes up now and then. (I sometimes use SC for this but it has the start-up lag and makes you fastfall, which may or may not be desirable.) I thought it was common knowledge *shrug*

 

[darkNES386]

I have to take back the whole DI thing. It does make you jump higher, so it appears to have more DI but really it doesn't. I still think it is very cool and I can't wait to start experimenting with it against other people. I'll throw a vid up next week of me just goofing off with it. No fancy editing. Just a raw vid.

 

[Camalange]

Not as useful as giving sonic good, real combos.

This is true.

 

[infomon]

Actually this is a misuse of the word "DI"; you should prolly use the term Aerial Influence, or Aerial Drift instead. While a lot of ppl use them interchangeably, it helps make more sense of a lot of things if the term DI is reserved for the circumstances in which you're controlling your knockback during a hit; smash-DI and regular DI.

raw vids = good

Also, just putting this out there.. what I love about Sonic are his two jumps; he can get such a nice low angle from each of them. SDJ'ing in one direction and then jumping backwards out of it, just seems kinda awesome. Iunno.

 

[MarKO X]

So, this is not really L-cancelling...

a letdown... but some of you claim it has its uses...

Maybe I'll practice this and apply it in the tourney I'm attending next week, no?

 

[infomon]

No, this is Boxob making stuff up, but Dnes taking us on a complete tangent about landing a side-B into an immediate VSDJ.

 

[darkNES386]

yeah, I'm trying to find something on smashwiki about aerial influence. No luck so far.

 

[thecatinthehat]

So Boxob gave in? Bummer...

 

[infomon]

yeah, I'm trying to find something on smashwiki about aerial influence. No luck so far.

Eh, I guess the term isn't as common as I thought. But you'll notice on smashwiki talking about DI, it's explicit that they're only talking about controlling your trajectory from an attack, not just your regular control of aerial momentum. I think I learned to call this "aerial influence" from the [Using Aerials for Recovery] thread. I know that lots of times on Smashboards I've seen someone define DI simply as "controlling your character in the air with the control stick", and they are usually corrected on this.

 

[JayBee]

just got on smash boards today. is this for real Boxob? I'll try this later. I've been practicing smash with my freinds all last night, so I needs my sleep. Please get that video up soon, I'm more visual person. And if you hurry, I may hook u up wit sum steak...

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

just got on smash boards today. is this for real Boxob? I'll try this later. I've been practicing smash with my freinds all last night, so I needs my sleep. Please get that video up soon, I'm more visual person. And if you hurry, I may hook u up wit sum steak...

lol

 

[JayBee]

but seriously though, this is legit? i just saw like, 2 threads that were basically garbage, and I dont wanna waste more time.

 

[Tenki]

On a somewhat related note, you can use the side-B's landing bounce if you've finished an aerial to avoid landing lag from fastfall.

Yeah.

So.


It's an interesting application to say the least:
normally, if you fast fall, you're stuck in landing lag and can't shield right away upon landing.

If you fastfall, then side-B+hold shield right before you land, then you'll skip the landing lag and go straight into shield.

 

[0RLY]

^Tenki: 4 frame fastfall landing lag or 2 frame shield buffer. Will 2 frames save your life? Probably not... except against MK's ftilt (3 frame startup).

 

[infomon]

Aaahh... that makes sense, thanks Tenki.

 

[Camalange]

See guys, Tenki IS the only guy allowed to discover stuff.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Tenki, vids of what you're talking about? I'm kinda confused.

 

[Tenki]

^Tenki: 4 frame fastfall landing lag or 2 frame shield buffer. Will 2 frames save your life? Probably not... except against MK's ftilt (3 frame startup).

lol maybe.

Are those legit frame numbers, or just from feel?

But yeah, it might really be as unnoticeable as you make it seem.

Tenki, vids of what you're talking about? I'm kinda confused.

Eh, no vids. I don't take my own vids lol. But basically this:

{a} If you're falling fast enough, you will be stuck in landing lag. If you're falling slowly, you'll have no landing lag (example, try Sonic's shorthop and land, then compare it to when he does a fullhop and lands). If you fastfall, you're stuck in much more obvious landing lag.

{b} If you're in side-B's incomplete charge state on the floor, you can:
- Shield
- Jump ([up] or [attack] while charging)

{c} Landing lag from a jump (fulljump fall, fastfall) is more of a 'neutral state' thing that gets overridden by attacks - like if you land while performing an aerial. Arguably, if you fastfall while performing an aerial, it might add on to your landing lag, but I don't know the game mechanics enough to say for sure. But it's not relevant to this, because:

{a}+{b}+{c}:
If you land while charging side-B, you still have control, which is different from normal landing lag when you perform aerials - so you can do shield/VSDJ. So if you finish your aerial before you land, then you can use it to do an insta VSDJ or shield, regardless of how fast you're falling. The only delays should be a frame or two of startup for side-B, just as if you were doing side-B>shield from a run.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Ah, gotcha. Sad times.

 

[ShadowLink84]

^Tenki: 4 frame fastfall landing lag or 2 frame shield buffer. Will 2 frames save your life? Probably not... except against MK's ftilt (3 frame startup).

Jabs on average come out in 2-3frames you will probably be aided by it.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Well if you're going to shield anyway.......

 

[Nanaki]

This would have been one epic rickroll.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

No rickroll is epic. Ever.

 

[MarKO X]

Box Cancelling. I've been messing with it a li'l.

It seems to cancel regular landing lag rather than attack landing lag. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

It has... some applications. If your fingers can manage it, you can definitely get some interesting attack strings out of this, but it might be more effort than it's worth.

 

[infomon]

Tenki, is the landing lag from a fastfall genuine? It seems like I can attack or shield instantaneously from it. Or am I wrong?

Regardless, side-B does have startup lag, as you mentioned (the time before he gets into the blue oval), it seems like this would negate virtually any benefit from side-B'ing before landing the fastfall.... amirong?

 

[MarKO X]

ehhh...

that's a good point...

see, this is why i need practice with good players... the only two "good" players I know r 2 into schoolwork to play... and CPUs suck, making it seem like this is a worthy tech.

So unless someone posts vids of this (which seems to not be the case), I'll have to get in real early on Saturday's tourney and get some friendlys in to try this out 4 real.

 

[R4ZE]

can you use side-b sheild to cancel HA's landing lag? I would assume u should be able to, since u can up-b to avoid HA's landing lag, but Side-b sheild would be a better option for the most part, probly safer.
'

on a side note, not meant to be discussed: boxob, has been poisting some really good threads lately.

 

[JayBee]

yeah, okay...

hey, even he has something important to say every while in a once. a clear result of the application of steakology

 

[infomon]

can you use side-b sheild to cancel HA's landing lag? I would assume u should be able to, since u can up-b to avoid HA's landing lag, but Side-b sheild would be a better option for the most part, probly safer.

Actually, you can't cancel HA's landing lag; neither of up-B or side-B work. You just have to start the HA high enough that Sonic will land on his feet, or low enough that you bounce off the stage.

 

[SonicX580]

Hmm.... this sounds very much like a rumor more than a technique.

 

[Chis]

Hmm.... this sounds very much like a rumor more than a technique.

It's been proven...

 

[JayBee]

i wanna see videos...

 

[Espy Rose]

It's been proven...

Then where's the ****ing evidence?

I know someone who has seen this can record, so WHY isn't there even RAW footage of this technique being used?

Also, weren't we emphasizing the need to get "back to basics" anyways?

Isn't this a step in the opposite direction?

 

[Chis]

Then where's the ****ing evidence?

I know someone who has seen this can record, so WHY isn't there even RAW footage of this technique being used?

Also, weren't we emphasizing the need to get "back to basics" anyways?

Isn't this a step in the opposite direction?

I'm only believing because some people have said they've done it. I still want the videos though...

 

[infomon]

Yeah, it's been proven to be a rumour LOL

 

[Tenki]

it was VSDJ done right after an aerial lol