KSSU: Helper to Hero Mafia/Newbie 11 - Game Over!

[Fried Ice Cream]

EBWOP: My vote is never wasted, because if I didn't vote for someone you'd like me to vote for, I wouldn't do it anyhow. If I wasn't voting Top Ranger, I'd probably vote no one at this time.

My votes are either pressure or to lynch someone.

 

[ranmaru]

No, less posting does mean null. Meaning the person can either be scum hiding (like you say), or just town being inactive.

My last newbie game, Ubermario was lynched for little to no content. Then he flipped, and was Vanilla townie. Reason why he didn't post much was: He was afraid to post something silly, was often beat to the punch of observations (He was gonna say something but then noticed me or someone else already say it), and just was having a hard time settling in to actually play. (He was observing a long time to find out what to do)

So he was lynched for wasting our time (we need his input) and sadly was Town


Although the reason why I agree with you on lynching lurkers, is because they may be scum hiding, and we can't let them win just by not even being here.

Although, with Forum Mafia, things go slower because we actually have lives. Especially since the holidays were near, we can't really try that LAL thing yet, which is why I'm fine with waiting until D2.

Also, you can't just hope someone else agrees with you, you have to convince them, Dourin.

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP:

I said it would be wasted because

1. TSR won't see it. You said it yourself, you can't pressure someone who can't see your vote.
2. No one would seem to hop on with you lately.


Now, it could work if: TRS saw your vote tommorow and posted a reaction to it. Then others would see it and observe that, that's the only way I see it working for now.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

What a compelling story about UltiMario, but be glad you didn't get stuck with him in late-game, where bringing forth content is much more important.

Convincing people? If she doesn't post I'll bring it to their attention again, and then we'll see if people are actually just going to let people coast.

I'll just wait it out.

 

[Oki]

@July: I agree with you, and I've said so I believe, but I want to clarify. I agree with you that I don't think bussing is probable at this stage in the game., which means that TGD and Ran both seem scummy, but are probably not on a scum team. TGD would be a possibility for me if Ran flips town.

@TGD: I can definitely accept that you were kind of just fooling around and voted for Ran without realizing it put him at L-1. It seems like the kind of silly thing I'd do, actually. It doesn't make me consider you much less, but if town turns on you Tomorrow I will definitely take that into account.

This whole back-and-forth isn't helping much, in my opinion. Ran, you're very dedicated to your own play, and you seem to have some trouble seeing things from another frame of mind. Remember that we can't see into your head; in situations where your motive might be unclear, you're naturally going to fall under suspicion.

^ Because of this I know the @Ran below isn't going to matter, because he is just going to ignore it and continue having the same kind of self-focused, one-track-mind mentality as before. So this is probably going to be my last @Ran for the Day, this is getting ridiculous.


@Ran: What I meant by "by voting" if you flipped town: Were you in that aimaf game where Gova seemed /really really/ scummy, and we all voted for him because he seemed the scummiest, but it turned out he was a /cop/? Well, after that we were like "his play was so misleading, it is hard to tell who voted for him because they were scum, and who voted for him because they were town and genuinely thought it was the right thing to do."

That is how I feel. You are very talkative but not really generating /that/ much content for all your words, and I don't know, your whole play is seeming just off to me. If you flip town, I will look at everyone who voted you, but I will say to myself "Ran's play was very misleading, I don't know for sure if these people voted him because they are scum or because they were town who were genuinely thrown off by your play."

I don't understand this sentence you said:

"Now, why would you only connect my town flip by voting, though? Is it because you are afraid you might be on it?"

It genuinely doesn't make any sense to me. I keep reading it and reading it and it is really just Greek to me. I tried to clarify what I meant in a response to it, because I mean, you asked me a question. But your response is going to be like "but Oki no listen this is the same thing I just said in all my previous posts meowmeowmeow" so it probably didn't matter.

 

[Oki]

@Dourin: You are the most awesomest.

 

[ranmaru]

So if there is a possibility that one of us is scum, you are ok with wasting a townie?

Ok, so you say TGD was fooling around after RVS? Does Town fool around?

No, but I'd think you would be a great lead for scum. : ] I think even greater than X1. You know, you still haven't said anything about anyone else, Oki.

I am generating much content. That isn't a valid reason. I'm talking about things that aren't about me. You'd want my play to seem off. You ignore my content, such as this:

Purpose-Intent List:
X1: Seems to want me to be lynched toDAY instead of TGD.
Oki: Seems to suggest I'm going to flip first, and says there might be something done about TGD.
TGD: Voted me many times and put me to L-1, clear here that he is either wanting me dead, or just eager to vote anyone.
July: Doesn't have much intent, but does find me suspicious, which is logical.
Dourin: Keeps his intent hidden.
Nabe: Has posted little, but states that he was waiting on X1 first.
Joey: I'm not sure about his intent, he voted me early on, without much reason. Just that I was scummy, and declared it later on, when others contributed first. His suspicions are logical, though.
Top Sky Ranger: Where art thou D:

No, you can't just look at the votes like in Aimafia. You also have to look at the actual posts, the ideas and thoughts and my intent. You can't just say "Oh my bad my vote doesn't count because Ran wasn't posting content" You'll have to try harder. Currently you are the only person who wants my lynch. Noted. Nope, never was trying to throw off town.

@Questions for Oki:
How did I throw town off? What content am I not posting?

Ok, that's fine, you don't have to reply to me.

So, then what else will you talk about? Who are your suspects besides me and TGD, Oki? What if, me AND TGD turned out town? Who would be a suspect then?

What do you think about TRS?

"Now, why would you only connect my town flip by voting, though? Is it because you are afraid you might be on it?"

I'm sorry, I misworded, my fault completely. Here:

"Now, why would you only connect my town flip by voting, though? Is it because you are afraid you might be on my suspect list (You would only connect the people who voted me, and not the people who I said were town/scum, including you)?"

Why doesn't anyone try to pick out from my scum lists/Intent list to argue with me about who I think is scum or why I think they are doing something... Is it because they want to ignore the fact I am actually contributing , so that their argument can still be seen as valid:

Ran seems to be misguiding town by a fluff post.
Ran isn't scum hunting.
Ran is nervous.
Ran is talkative, yet not posting content.
Ran's play is off compared to his Aimafia play.

Possible Newb mistake (Yet the IC doesn't even consider this, why is that?)
Wrong. I am, unless you skimmed my vote and why. (Meaning you only looked at what I replied to you)
Wrong, you can't use that as a point of scumminess. I don't express emotion through Mafia.
Wrong, I am posting much content. I am even re-posting it since you readers seem to dislike wot's, which is why you skim and ignore. Town needs info.
Irrelevent.

@ Question for Oki: do you know who I voted for? Do you agree with my vote, or do you disagree?

Also Oki, when me and Dourin were discussing TRS, why didn't you talk with us? Is it because you are focusing on me?

Also, Oki you stated before that I might be wrong that town's weapon is their voice and vote. But, funny thing is, that's what is in the sample role pm. "You are a Vanilla Townie, your powers are your voice and your vote so use them wisely!"

But, you seem to want to only want to use votes to find out scum. That, I do believe is misleading.

I, am spreading out my accusations as much I can, because if you focus on one player, and he's town, then all your work is done for. Then, you lose credibility because town does not want to be guided to a myslynch again.

Plus, I'm not here to reserve my thoughts or to lurk. Why would I play just to lurk?

Also Oki, are you buddying Dourin? : ] Why did you call him awesome, instead of discussing town matters with him?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe:
How is this? Can you refer to an example? I don't understand that. Do you mean I shouldn't have made a scumpick list, and think of what others would think of me? If so, I'd refuse, because I would always speak my thoughts. I'm a loud person. I am still trying new things, yet I don't like to be reserved. I want everyone to know what I think, regardless if they'll lynch me or not.

126 is an example; you address a great number of things at once without taking into account how others will see your post. The reason for the poor communication we're seeing between you and others is this attitude you've taken, that your meaning is plain and that people should understand it, when it's actually jumbled and very hard to put together from what you've said.

This post you've just made to me is another example. You've read a great deal into what I've said, going so far as to defend your playstyle against what you believe to be a possible meaning of my post. In reality, my post didn't deal with any of the issues you've addressed.

It's good that you're not reserved. "Regardless if they'll lynch me or not" is the right attitude to take as a townie. But you also have to post so that the other players can get a grasp of your meaning, and that's what I think you're having problems with. If other players can't understand you, then you won't be convincing anyone of anything.


Please look back at the questions I've asked and rephrase the rest of your post, or write a new post entirely, so that it answers the exact questions I've posed rather than your perception of those questions.

My questions were concerning the specific wording you used; as a player in Mafia, it's your job to own up to the words you choose to express your thoughts.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

167 is another example.

I'd like you both to stop this argument entirely. The issues therein can be addressed later, and more succinctly than they're being addressed right now. Nothing is going to come of this back-and-forth between the two of you.

Ran, I'd like you to focus on my 168 for now, since you're here.

 

[ranmaru]

Now that I'm re-reading the second page, why did Oki follow along with Joey on voting me? Then X1 seemed to follow along pretty quickly too.

Now, where IS Joey? I think we need input from him. He seems to say that he will be at deadline to hammer.

Also, he was the first to vote me.

Joey and Oki vote: Not strong.
X1 vote: Without reason. He didn't give a reason for hi Oki RVS vote either. Rvs, but still something to note regardless.

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP:

Sure, Nabe. I'll address it shortly.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Thanks.

July and Oki, what do you think of X1 so far? I think he's the only player I haven't read your opinions on. If I'm wrong, please direct me to where you've spoken about X1.

 

[ranmaru]

"You say that you suspect X1 of misguiding others, particularly in respect to Dourin's alignment. What would a scum!X1's motive be in doing so? What do you believe Dourin's alignment to be, so far?"

Scumx1 motive: To buddy Dourin, to gain credibility and power by saying that he is town from a null tell post. Everyone believes him.
Dourin alignment: Not so sure now. He seems to want TRS lynched now even though we can wait until D2. He says lurking does NOT = Null.

============================

So nabe, are you saying that I might be reading too much into people's Posts? I want to communicate better. Miswording, I can see those would be my mistakes...

But I don't understand what else Town doesn't understand from me. I'm willing to help town understand me better.

 

[Oki]

@Nabe: I think that X1 seems pretty town (not cleared town, but p town) because he unvoted when Ran was L-1 rather than staying on. I'll find the post where he unvoted if you need it. I feel like scum, would stay on and let town run around in circles and make the hammer on Ran. He was not the hammer, and he was not even L-1. It is a good place for scum to be voting-wise, if they're going to vote. That's kind of a bit of "what if" but I think it is valid.

He said specifically when he unvoted that he didn't want the day to end yet. Scum would want shorter days in general, I would think, and keeping the day longer promotes more town discussion and clearer reads on people. It's all very town to me.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ran, do you see a possibility of Scum!X1 protecting Scum!Dourin?

Oki, what do you think about Joey?

 

[ranmaru]

Yes, I'm sure there could be.

Although, I said Dourin was null to me. I can't say anymore than that, because then it just goes directly to a drain of wifom, I think.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

Ran, do you see a possibility of Scum!X1 protecting Scum!Dourin?

Oki, what do you think about Joey?

That seems pretty unlikely, because

1. I'm not scum

2. Why would he even randomly buddy up with his scum partner?

This sounds too farfetched, especially for an IC.

 

[X1-12]

Apologies for not being here today and not posting anything about the game but its the first day of school tomorrow so I've been busy and now am going to get an early night. Before I go you can see this bit of copypasta, since some of you have touched on this issue.



When chasing down a dangerous criminal, a policeman comes to a fork in the road. To the left is a dark alleyway where the criminal would have a moderate chance of escaping (even if the cop correctly follows him that direction). To the right is a well-lit boulevard where the criminal would surely be caught. The policeman doesn't know which way the criminal went. If he guesses wrong, the criminal will easily make a clean getaway.
If you were the criminal, which way would you go?
If you were the policeman, which way would you guess the criminal went?

WIFOM is circular logic with a dash of reverse psychology (or IS it reverse psychology?) Scum killed X1, he said Ran was scum - thus Ran killed him as he was onto him! But that's what scum WANT you to think - Swords thus is a townie! But what if he knew we'd think like this? So he IS scum! But what if scum were double guessing us at this stage? Means he IS town!....... ad infinitum

The term WIFOM stands for Wine In Front Of Me, which is a reference to a scene from the awesome movie The Princess Bride (audio is quiet, sorry). Its my opinion that if you ever occur a WIFOM situation you should just ignore it. WIFOM in itself isn't a scumtell however if an individual generates lots of WIFOM for now apparent reason then it should be considered scummy as it only slows down and/or confuses town.

Last things

@Ran: Please write shorter posts, conciseness is a virtue, there's no need for such walls of texts

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

That seems pretty unlikely, because

1. I'm not scum

2. Why would he even randomly buddy up with his scum partner?

This sounds too farfetched, especially for an IC.

While I don't agree that it's unlikely, you've also misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting that it's the case. However, it was important to get Ran's assessment of that scenario.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Dourin, what are your current thoughts on Ran?

 

[July]

@July
Why is the only thing you wanted to address in Ranmaru's post was his thoughts on myself?

Honestly, because the post was very long and filled with a lot of responses directed to Oki, Joey, and X1 that were still focused on defending himself as town. What was addressed to me was more about whether people should direct cop/doc and I didn't want that conversation dragging on forever.

However, in that post Ran brought up the idea of bussing,and that made me realize my top two suspects-you and Ran-do not seem to be bussing and do not seem to be scum buddies, so that's what I decided was most important to address.

@July: I agree with you, and I've said so I believe, but I want to clarify. I agree with you that I don't think bussing is probable at this stage in the game., which means that TGD and Ran both seem scummy, but are probably not on a scum team. TGD would be a possibility for me if Ran flips town.

No problem Oki, I understand and your response was very balanced; you considered all the options and I thought that was a good way of thinking about it.

Thanks.

July and Oki, what do you think of X1 so far? I think he's the only player I haven't read your opinions on. If I'm wrong, please direct me to where you've spoken about X1.

Right now X1 is leaning town to me, and I don't think that he has misguided anyone. However, I admit up until now I have related a lot of his actions back to simply being an IC. As for preventing Ran from getting lynched, I saw that as a move by an IC to keep the game going so we can get experience and have fun, but in terms of alignment it was more a town move. Using post #50 to clear Dourin also seemed like an instructional move; it was the first time an individual post was looked at closely for content, and introduced what we could look for as town tells as well. This also leans town, so for now I'm cautiously leaning town with him.

 

[Dooms]

Just so you all know, during the school week you're only going to get a post or two out of me. Sorry D: I'm not at home much during the school week :/

@Ran: Theres a difference between not scum hunting and not posting much. I'm not the mod, so I'm not going to bother with activity. I don't see it as any type of tell since I know that I myself can't be that active due to school. He hasn't posted much, while you on the other hand have been making these long posts that were defending yourself, saying what you like in a townie or how a townie should play, and those two lists. Lists can be positive and negative because they can show who the people that townies think are strong and the ones that are weak. They give scum guidelines on who to kill. If me, July, and Oki agree that TGD is a weak player and he doesn't get lynched, then scum probably isn't going to kill them. On the other hand, if me, you, Dourin, and Oki think that July is really strong and state it many times, then it gives scum the idea for a target. I suggest not making lists unless you're about to die. Instead just post who you think is suspicious. It helps town more in my opinion.

Was I asked any other questions? I only had the time to read through a few posts. I'll re-read later.

 

[The Good Doctor]

@Oki
Yeah, it kind of sucks. Mafia is srs business

@Ranmaru
Yourself and X1 top my list for reasons I said before to be scum. The only person I'm clearing as town is Dourin.

 

[The Good Doctor]

@July
If that's the case, will you share your current thoughts on the probability of Ranmaru and myself being scum? Im curious to hear who you think is more trustworthy at this point.

 

[X1-12]

skimmed on mobile.

@July: why do you post so rarely? I'm getting the feeling that you could post more often but don't. I often see that you are online on AIM (thus on a computer) yet I see nothing from you in this game. Furthermore you seem to only respond to the thread when your name is mentioned, a sign that you are reading the thread but not posting - scummy

@Nabe: How would you feel rushing top ranger skye up to L-1/L-2 a la a certain game we know? I can see it being particularly effective in this situation

 

[Oki]

@Nabe: I guess I don't really have a read on Joey for now. I'm not quite sure about him, because he hasn't said that much and what he has said has been pretty brief (at least when July posts rarely, her posts have a lot of good information in them, I like how she is contributing) and doesn't seem to lean one way or the other. The inactivity could be his being busy, or it could be him being reserved. I don't want to say he is sounding scummy, because he has posted a lot of good content, when he does post. Also, he mentioned that he didn't think post #50 made Dourin look either scummy or town, so I think he might be vanilla, just reserved. I'd like him to talk more though.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Sure.

For those of you who don't know, the L-X notation is in reference to how close a player is to lynch. For example, if I had 1 vote, I would be at L-4, since it's 5 votes to lynch.

I'd like everyone to address the motive behind putting Skye at L-2. Answer the question, "what can we hope to gain from such a move?" Everyone aside from X1, naturally.

 

[July]

@TGD: Right now, I think that honestly Ran has a higher chance of being scum than you; his play style has been confusing, he has done very little scum-hunting (he has said you and Oki are his biggest suspects, but those are just the two people he's spent the most time defending himself against), and he spent a large amount of this thread just trying to look town (plus some fluff early on).

TGD, you know I find you suspicious, and I don't think you have scum-hunted very much either, but

1) I think you can actually help the town and scum-hunt if what you said in post #124 is true (you said we would notice a change in your play style shortly)
2) If Ran is scum, I think you can rebound from earlier mistakes and could flip town

Now
Unvote: TGD
Vote: Top Skye Ranger

At least we have some information and some connections to go off of with Ran and TGD; there is no read onTSR because there are no posts. With TSR, we have no information on her, no opinions from her, and I can now see where this could be a major problem if it continues into Day 2.

@X1- I read when I can and I post when I have something to say. I like to read everything thoroughly, but I usually don’t have time to post a comprehensive response at that moment. I’m on aim when I need to talk to my friends about something pretty important, or for aimaf, so when I’m on aim I’m not particularly thinking about this mafia thread. So I read and work on a post until something comes up (dinner, movie, random smoothie and walmart trip) then I come back, see what is new, and finish my response. For me, this is the best and most time-efficient way to participate and actually provide useful input.

(Also, I’m a night person so expect me to post more frequently late at night)

@Nabe- I wrote the first part of the response earlier but had to leave before I could post it, but that is how I feel about putting more votes on TRS. From such a move, we can hope to get an inactive player active by putting pressure on her, and we can try to prevent an inactivity problem from persisting and damaging us into Day 2.

 

[Gova]

1. Ranmaru (3) Oki, X1-12, The Good Doctor
2. July ()
3. -Joey- (1) Nabe,
4. Top Ranger Skye (2) Dourin-X, July
5. The Good Doctor (1) Joey
6. Dourin-X ()
7. Oki ()
8. X1-12 (1) Ranmaru
9. Nabe ()

Not voting: Top Ranger Skye,

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is January 9th at 11:59 PM CST ( -6 GMT)

 

[Oki]

@Nabe: I think that putting TRS at L-2 or L-1 (though L-1 is more dangerous) might be a good thing because it would put pressure on TRS to talk more. It would also be interesting to see who just gets on that bandwagon, or if anyone tries to go past L-2 to L-1, and what their reasoning in voting is. It helps give a clearer read on a lot of people we might not have heard from before, and it creates activity and discussion.

 

[ranmaru]

No, actually X1 and TGD are my suspects, July. Remember when I voted him? Oki was also suspected due to her pushing the most (while X1 hung back somewhere).

@Question for Dourin:
Remember that question you asked for skimmers? Who did you note not answering it?

@All:So if the IC's are hanging back on reserve, who should be in the front lines doing the work?

 

[ranmaru]

Putting Skye at L-2, will gain nothing, but a reaction. That is, if she notices it. I guess it'll be good to get some sort of read from her.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

I don't think we should pressure TRS, because she's not even reading. We should just ignore her case until she actually does something, and just lynch her if she doesn't do anything.

That's a fine way of pressuring an inactive IMO.


Ran asked me for a top 3 scum-pick list in #158, so I had to think a while about it.

I guess I'll post what I got. It's not in order.


Nabe; But that's most likely because I don't really like his avatar, or at least liked his old one better. I can't believe an avatar has so much influence on how I see a person in this game LOL.

July; Makes decent posts, doesn't stand out much, adds more stuff instead of coming up with something new. I'm not really saying I think July is scum, but I can't say I'm bit afraid because she's staying under the radar very good.


@Ranmaru: I will give you my thoughts on you if you just answer me one question:
Have you been scum before?

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

@Question for Dourin:
Remember that question you asked for skimmers? Who did you note not answering it?

I don't know, I didn't note it down. I just hoped it would get people to read the whole post.
If you want me to, I can look, but I asked it to generate a bit of discussion.



Also, I forgot to add to my last post.
Ranmaru, can you explain to me what you actually mean with "keeping my intent hidden"?

 

[ranmaru]

Yes, only once before. If you like you could read Newbie ten and see how I did. You can say I'm probably playing Noobtown now, but hopefully I'll learn much from it.

Same as Nabe and X1. Meaning it's hard to get a read from you. I just like the word hidden. : ]

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP:

No, I just thought you were trying to catch skimmers, and I was doing alot of thinking this morning, and I remembered your question. ;-; Yeah I was up thinking of mafia. :3

You don't have to, though. I just wanted to point it out.

 

[Oki]

I can't believe an avatar has so much influence on how I see a person in this game LOL.

It's ok. Yours is making me think you are the most awesome.

 

[X1-12]

I stress this very much IF ANYONE OTHER THAN NABE VOTES FOR TOP RANGER SKYE, YOU WILL BE CONSIDERED AS 100% CONFIRMED SCUM. This is in effect until I say so. This is to prevent early hammers resulting in town missing out on information. If scum wish to quickhammer then so be it, I will gladly trade a townie lynch for a scum lynch.

Unvote
Vote: Top Ranger Skye

Nabe it is up to you to if you want to leave him at L-1 or L-2

@Ran: Why did you say "who will step up and take control?" Why did you not step up?

I want to give TRS a warm welcome..

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

And why can Nabe? Because he's an IC?

 

[X1-12]

Because I trust his judgement as to whether Skye should be at L-1 or L-2, tbh I think L-1 is miles better but I'm often over-zealous about these things. Obviously I was only gonna pick 1 person to do it incase I just say anyone can and 2 people try at the same time or something like that