July
Smash Apprentice
Lol I changed them to be a little less overwhelming just for you kuz
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KSSU: Helper to Hero Mafia/Newbie 11 - Game Over!
- Thread starter Gova
- Start date
July
Smash Apprentice
Yeah we used the QT at first but used AIM for a lot of the planning and discussion during after Day 1.
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Good game all. IMO a game with no MVP, which is a good thing in a newbie game, equal participation and all that. If I had to pick someone I'd go with either Oki or July, with July edging out since her faction won, but MVP is for something outstanding and again this game was all about equal participation.
July, well done. You made some mistakes but you picked up on them in the QT. D1 had you sitting at a very town read in my opinion, and it was only the Dourin kill that had me looking in your direction at all. You and I were often the only ones in the thread late at night, which isn't something I'd have expected from you as town, but could have just as easily been excitement over your first forum game. Your posts were very well thought-out.
X1, good win. I thought you were scum, but I wanted the town to figure out why. You hit heavy on the advice and light on content, and made sure to say "don't look at my advice, it's my job as IC" which, while true in one sense, isn't really the right attitude, all parts of all posts should be examined. That's the right way to play scum IC though, say things that are true or good advice but that also paint you in a good light. Overall you did a good job. I like that July did more of the footwork, again I think that was the right way to play it as she should still be learning.
TGD, shame about your hammer. I believed you were town by the time you were being lynched, but obviously it was too late by then and we had no better leads. Join another game, I'd love to see more play from you.
Ran, it's been addressed already, but you weren't the strongest player in the game. When you have a role like cop, it's good to put yourself out there a normal amount, but let the VTs outplay you a bit more. You need to look neutral, draw no attention (or at least equal amounts of good and bad attention) and allow the vanillas to play the game around you while you observe for scum. As a general note as well, try not to think that everyone who targets you is scum; put themselves in their place and make an attempt to understand why they think what they do.
Kim, you did well, and made the correct choice in the end from your perspective. It turned out to be wrong, but that's through no fault of your own. You get very good reads on people who are playing scummy, and Joey wasn't doing you any favours. Don't put so much fault on yourself; this was town's loss, not your loss.
Joey, scumhunt more. X1 will probably have more to say to you than I have. Invest yourself in the game more than you do, don't just float along.
DH, you replaced into a tough slot, but please don't replace into a game if you're not going to really do anything.
Dourin, well done. Playing Day like town and getting killed for it is the best thing you can do as a VT. I thought you were scum, but scum thought you were obvtown and that's what matters. I'm looking forward to playing the scum to your town sometime and making the mistake of not killing you when I should, heh.
Gova, thanks for hosting. You kept up with the game and kept things moving properly. For me, who's been playing Kirby Super Star since the day it came out on SNES, the character assignments were very predictable -- which is okay, especially in a newbie game, but gave town a larger footing. Doc/cop were very predictable as Simirror and TAC. Sir Kibble, Sword Knight and Waddle Dee were all shoe-ins for town because they're in every Kirby game, while GIM and Plasma Wisp were slightly more obscure. Burning Leo and Rocky were more mid-level and sounded like good fakeclaims. Now, obviously none of this was evidence, but obvious character distribution can set people's minds on the right path and get them looking for the evidence that does exist. Some less common helpers like Birdon, Capsule J, Bugzzy, Biospark etc. would've leveled out the playing field. Doc and cop should've probably had fakeclaims to counter a fullclaim, which would've outed both very easily.
July, well done. You made some mistakes but you picked up on them in the QT. D1 had you sitting at a very town read in my opinion, and it was only the Dourin kill that had me looking in your direction at all. You and I were often the only ones in the thread late at night, which isn't something I'd have expected from you as town, but could have just as easily been excitement over your first forum game. Your posts were very well thought-out.
X1, good win. I thought you were scum, but I wanted the town to figure out why. You hit heavy on the advice and light on content, and made sure to say "don't look at my advice, it's my job as IC" which, while true in one sense, isn't really the right attitude, all parts of all posts should be examined. That's the right way to play scum IC though, say things that are true or good advice but that also paint you in a good light. Overall you did a good job. I like that July did more of the footwork, again I think that was the right way to play it as she should still be learning.
TGD, shame about your hammer. I believed you were town by the time you were being lynched, but obviously it was too late by then and we had no better leads. Join another game, I'd love to see more play from you.
Ran, it's been addressed already, but you weren't the strongest player in the game. When you have a role like cop, it's good to put yourself out there a normal amount, but let the VTs outplay you a bit more. You need to look neutral, draw no attention (or at least equal amounts of good and bad attention) and allow the vanillas to play the game around you while you observe for scum. As a general note as well, try not to think that everyone who targets you is scum; put themselves in their place and make an attempt to understand why they think what they do.
Kim, you did well, and made the correct choice in the end from your perspective. It turned out to be wrong, but that's through no fault of your own. You get very good reads on people who are playing scummy, and Joey wasn't doing you any favours. Don't put so much fault on yourself; this was town's loss, not your loss.
Joey, scumhunt more. X1 will probably have more to say to you than I have. Invest yourself in the game more than you do, don't just float along.
DH, you replaced into a tough slot, but please don't replace into a game if you're not going to really do anything.
Dourin, well done. Playing Day like town and getting killed for it is the best thing you can do as a VT. I thought you were scum, but scum thought you were obvtown and that's what matters. I'm looking forward to playing the scum to your town sometime and making the mistake of not killing you when I should, heh.
Gova, thanks for hosting. You kept up with the game and kept things moving properly. For me, who's been playing Kirby Super Star since the day it came out on SNES, the character assignments were very predictable -- which is okay, especially in a newbie game, but gave town a larger footing. Doc/cop were very predictable as Simirror and TAC. Sir Kibble, Sword Knight and Waddle Dee were all shoe-ins for town because they're in every Kirby game, while GIM and Plasma Wisp were slightly more obscure. Burning Leo and Rocky were more mid-level and sounded like good fakeclaims. Now, obviously none of this was evidence, but obvious character distribution can set people's minds on the right path and get them looking for the evidence that does exist. Some less common helpers like Birdon, Capsule J, Bugzzy, Biospark etc. would've leveled out the playing field. Doc and cop should've probably had fakeclaims to counter a fullclaim, which would've outed both very easily.
Gova
I'm goin' for it!
Well this is from Kirby Super Star Ultra, one the games that wasn't in the original. I don't really think any particular helper had a more inclination to be town other than Simirror/Biospark/Tac like you said. There are 20 helpers to choose from and I only picked my favorites including the scum team characters. I figured if anyone decided to check out the flavor they would see that scum would be the bosses from game.
July
Smash Apprentice
Lol Nabe I did notice that we were often the only ones on at night, deff part of it was excitement but part of it is also just my sleep tendencies...I'm much more likely to be awake at 4 am than 1 pm any given day lol 
X1-12
Smash Champion
Its situational.Don't ever use thesmiley. It's a scum tell.
TruFax
Oki
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2010
- Messages
- 0
I knew X1 was scum but I knew I couldn't get the lynch on him. I didn't have the proof to get him, but I knew it. X1 threw me off about Joey because he kept being like "Joey couldn't think this up, he is just a newbie and he totally couldn't be faking this town tell." That and some other things Joey said made me think he could be more possible scum than not.
Sorry I didn't stay calm under attack, and like, sorry I screwed everything up terribly. =/ I feel bad. I will like reconsider being in games probably, I do not want to wreck stuff for town.
Sorry I didn't stay calm under attack, and like, sorry I screwed everything up terribly. =/ I feel bad. I will like reconsider being in games probably, I do not want to wreck stuff for town.
X1-12
Smash Champion
Oki you were the best town player
Except maybe Nabe, but he's an IC
th3kuzinator
Smash Master
Don't even.
You played fine, and, as long as you dont get yourself modkilled in LYLO, you will hardly ever wreck things for town.
You played fine, and, as long as you dont get yourself modkilled in LYLO, you will hardly ever wreck things for town.
X1-12
Smash Champion
@The Good Doctor: As town I'd never have lynched you but since I was scum I saw the best opportunity for an easy lynch and took it. After Rans claim town was lost with little time so I just pushed towards you.
@Dourin: Solid townie, I killed you partly because after I cleared you I didn't want too many cleared townies running around, but also because the way you reacted to the cop claim made me think you were the doctor. One day you will experience Day 2 I'm sure
@Dark Horse: Your reads were pretty good iirc, but your reasoning was less so. Half of mafia is finding out who is scum, the other half is convincing others that you are right. You have to be good at both to be a good town player. Also Protip: Don't try to meta me, especially not when I've played in more recent games completely differently to how I played in Halo
@Ranmaru: The Cop's job is not to lead town. Part of the cop's responsibility is to avoid getting Nightkilled, that means you shouldn't have to be massively vocal. Don't purposely act scummy but don't try to lead town. Really you should stop fluffing up posts with stuff thats not important, and try to write in paragraphs instead of just one sentence followed by a couple of line spaces then another, it actually makes your posts a pain to read.
@Joey: Yeah you were pretty obvious town the whole game to me, towards the end I was wondering how I would get you lynched so I decided to set-up a July bus so you would look like her partner, fortunately Oki happened to go with you before I had to deal with all that. Although you looked town, some worse players would not realise it an lynch you. Even then looking town is not actually your main goal, you need to analyse and question more. If you don't pursue your scum-reads then you both look scummy and you will add very little to town. Saying "I think X1 is scum" and nothing else only makes you look bad as you've made a baseless stance. Keep it in mind for the next time you play.
@Oki: You were super obvious town the whole game too, and you did play well as a townie attacking those who you thought to be scum, you did so with evidence too which is something that more newbies should do, it makes your cases so much more solid. Overall very impressed with your play and the only thing that let you down was your interactions with Ran which wasn't particularly scummy, but it both didn't help town, but also allowed me to paint you as scum. Try and keep your cool, yeah? You have potential to be a great player.
@Nabe: Ever since around early D2 I was worried that I would have to lock horns with you in a 3 man LYLO but fortunately that didn't have to happen. In the hypothetical where July was lynched D3 I was thinking of actually trying to kill you instead of Oki because I'd rather have a clear in LYLO that you. Your a great player. Reading your shoutout to me I don't think I was particularly low on content and I don't think its particularly scummy to say that I shouldn't be considered town because I give advice - a line I stole from Vanderzant (Town) in Newbie 10. I also don't know if you know, but its standard for IC'ing duties to come second to achieving your wincon so in future if you have to spoonfeed it to town that I'm scum, then so be it. I don't blame you though you taught well and played well. Good reads.
@July: We played a perfect game =] We got the Doc protect on us N1, outed the cop before he could investigate, then outed the Doc before a second protect. We also all lived to endgame so that was pretty good. Imo you were the ideal scummate, you listened well and you take advice. You didn't freak out or panic and you understood that your life wasn't the most important thing, you were fine with the idea of me bussing you which is good. Fortunately we didn't need that in the end. You're also generally on the ball and actually read the thread whereas I often skimmed loads of Ran's posts and didn't know what was going on. Very good game.
@Gova; Thanks for modding, votecounts regularly enough and often at the start of new pages which is always handy. You feeling good about modding your custom game now? It should be good. =]
General thoughts: I wish I got town this game =/ I'd have been clearing people left right and centre and I'd get some fine tuning on my newbie reading skills. I also wouldn't have had to actually think about each of my post or worry about Nabe getting me lynched. I'm also pretty sure that I prefer playing as town in general now, I can be so much more carefree.
@All: I hope you've enjoyed your mafia game, if you want to play more I suggest you go to the DGames Sign-ups thread and join a game. There's sign-ups for a small game currently running which looks it will be fun to play, I've checked the player list so far and everyone on it is nice (except Swiss, but just ignore him). I see Dourin and Joey are already signed up so we can have a little Newbie 11 re-union. Haha, I might join it if I get more time but I have other priorities to take care of first.
If you are wondering what the difference between newbie games and other games is, the main ones are that the set-up is closed, so you will not know which roles are going to be present in the game. The games also will probably be slightly larger, and some of the players will be less nice, don't be afraid though - just play the game, You'll be fine.
W.R.T: MVP: Normally after the game there will be discussion on who everyone felt to be the MVP (Most Valuable Player) of the game, it often goes to someone on the winning faction, but needn't always. I'm kinda with Nabe that no-one in this game excelled beyond everyone else, but if you disagree then say so and we can talk about it. Note that if you get MVP you get little dice under your avatar, like I do. Red for 1 MVP, Gold for 2 or more
@Dourin: Solid townie, I killed you partly because after I cleared you I didn't want too many cleared townies running around, but also because the way you reacted to the cop claim made me think you were the doctor. One day you will experience Day 2 I'm sure
@Dark Horse: Your reads were pretty good iirc, but your reasoning was less so. Half of mafia is finding out who is scum, the other half is convincing others that you are right. You have to be good at both to be a good town player. Also Protip: Don't try to meta me, especially not when I've played in more recent games completely differently to how I played in Halo
@Ranmaru: The Cop's job is not to lead town. Part of the cop's responsibility is to avoid getting Nightkilled, that means you shouldn't have to be massively vocal. Don't purposely act scummy but don't try to lead town. Really you should stop fluffing up posts with stuff thats not important, and try to write in paragraphs instead of just one sentence followed by a couple of line spaces then another, it actually makes your posts a pain to read.
@Joey: Yeah you were pretty obvious town the whole game to me, towards the end I was wondering how I would get you lynched so I decided to set-up a July bus so you would look like her partner, fortunately Oki happened to go with you before I had to deal with all that. Although you looked town, some worse players would not realise it an lynch you. Even then looking town is not actually your main goal, you need to analyse and question more. If you don't pursue your scum-reads then you both look scummy and you will add very little to town. Saying "I think X1 is scum" and nothing else only makes you look bad as you've made a baseless stance. Keep it in mind for the next time you play.
@Oki: You were super obvious town the whole game too, and you did play well as a townie attacking those who you thought to be scum, you did so with evidence too which is something that more newbies should do, it makes your cases so much more solid. Overall very impressed with your play and the only thing that let you down was your interactions with Ran which wasn't particularly scummy, but it both didn't help town, but also allowed me to paint you as scum. Try and keep your cool, yeah? You have potential to be a great player.
@Nabe: Ever since around early D2 I was worried that I would have to lock horns with you in a 3 man LYLO but fortunately that didn't have to happen. In the hypothetical where July was lynched D3 I was thinking of actually trying to kill you instead of Oki because I'd rather have a clear in LYLO that you. Your a great player. Reading your shoutout to me I don't think I was particularly low on content and I don't think its particularly scummy to say that I shouldn't be considered town because I give advice - a line I stole from Vanderzant (Town) in Newbie 10. I also don't know if you know, but its standard for IC'ing duties to come second to achieving your wincon so in future if you have to spoonfeed it to town that I'm scum, then so be it. I don't blame you though you taught well and played well. Good reads.
@July: We played a perfect game =] We got the Doc protect on us N1, outed the cop before he could investigate, then outed the Doc before a second protect. We also all lived to endgame so that was pretty good. Imo you were the ideal scummate, you listened well and you take advice. You didn't freak out or panic and you understood that your life wasn't the most important thing, you were fine with the idea of me bussing you which is good. Fortunately we didn't need that in the end. You're also generally on the ball and actually read the thread whereas I often skimmed loads of Ran's posts and didn't know what was going on. Very good game.
@Gova; Thanks for modding, votecounts regularly enough and often at the start of new pages which is always handy. You feeling good about modding your custom game now? It should be good. =]
General thoughts: I wish I got town this game =/ I'd have been clearing people left right and centre and I'd get some fine tuning on my newbie reading skills. I also wouldn't have had to actually think about each of my post or worry about Nabe getting me lynched. I'm also pretty sure that I prefer playing as town in general now, I can be so much more carefree.
@All: I hope you've enjoyed your mafia game, if you want to play more I suggest you go to the DGames Sign-ups thread and join a game. There's sign-ups for a small game currently running which looks it will be fun to play, I've checked the player list so far and everyone on it is nice (except Swiss, but just ignore him). I see Dourin and Joey are already signed up so we can have a little Newbie 11 re-union. Haha, I might join it if I get more time but I have other priorities to take care of first.
If you are wondering what the difference between newbie games and other games is, the main ones are that the set-up is closed, so you will not know which roles are going to be present in the game. The games also will probably be slightly larger, and some of the players will be less nice, don't be afraid though - just play the game, You'll be fine.
W.R.T: MVP: Normally after the game there will be discussion on who everyone felt to be the MVP (Most Valuable Player) of the game, it often goes to someone on the winning faction, but needn't always. I'm kinda with Nabe that no-one in this game excelled beyond everyone else, but if you disagree then say so and we can talk about it. Note that if you get MVP you get little dice under your avatar, like I do. Red for 1 MVP, Gold for 2 or more
#HBC | Dancer
The nicest of the damned.
All this advice about what the cop should do is debatable. Again, I didn't read the game, so I don't know how Ran played, and I will definitely agree that PRs usually should not purposefully make themselves look scummy. However, saying that PRs should lay low, at all? Yeah, for the most part I don't think that's correct. Thing is, scum often kills people who lay low (even if by just a small amount) for two reasons:
1. It's a safer, more neutral kill.
2. They are aware that they might be a power roles TRYING to lay low.
A lot of times the best defense IS to just blend in with everyone. Heck, sometimes being "town leader" (if you do it right) can help in NOT being nk. Look at Youtube mafia, X1 was pretty much the town leader of that game, and yet neither Night 1 or 2 (when no one knew his role) he was NK. He was cop. I was vig that game, was also fairly in a "leadership" position, and I didn't get NK either until the SK had to the last Night in order to try to win the game.
Who got killed instead? Safe, neutral players (who mostly WERE PRs, btw).
Point is, I actually wouldn't recommend the "lay low, let others outplay me" strategy because it's actually a good way to be NK imo. Better to just to hide among the crowd then to make yourself stand out I think.
1. It's a safer, more neutral kill.
2. They are aware that they might be a power roles TRYING to lay low.
A lot of times the best defense IS to just blend in with everyone. Heck, sometimes being "town leader" (if you do it right) can help in NOT being nk. Look at Youtube mafia, X1 was pretty much the town leader of that game, and yet neither Night 1 or 2 (when no one knew his role) he was NK. He was cop. I was vig that game, was also fairly in a "leadership" position, and I didn't get NK either until the SK had to the last Night in order to try to win the game.
Who got killed instead? Safe, neutral players (who mostly WERE PRs, btw).
Point is, I actually wouldn't recommend the "lay low, let others outplay me" strategy because it's actually a good way to be NK imo. Better to just to hide among the crowd then to make yourself stand out I think.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2009
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- 5,955
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- Louisville, Kentucky
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- Doomsyplusle
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So would you suggest doing that if you were a VT?
I really have playing habits I need to break like being lazy. I read everything, I'm just too lazy to pile it all on someone and be like "TAKE THAT!" Yay learning and breaking habits. :D
I really have playing habits I need to break like being lazy. I read everything, I'm just too lazy to pile it all on someone and be like "TAKE THAT!" Yay learning and breaking habits. :D
Gova
I'm goin' for it!
You just play like you're trying to catch scum. You didn't even bother defending yourself from July D3. You wouldn't have had to make a case for that.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2009
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- Louisville, Kentucky
- NNID
- Doomsyplusle
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Why wouldn't I have had to make a case against July?
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
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- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
What I didn't get was Oki defending nabe. :x
I was thinking Nabe/Oki the whole time.I also don't like how Nabe just "gave up" at the end. Like did we ever get a scum list from him?
Shout outs:
Oki: You did great. : D I'm sorry if you were just saying Dourin was being awesome just to be awesome... I really thought you were buddying there. You did fine with pressuring me. You really followed the IC's... But later one was saying X1 was hiding behind his IC status and not nabe. I didn't understand that. You ate'd alot, tho.
I honestly thought you were scum backing off me to join other wagons when you called me dopey.
But anyways, you did fine. Try not to follow the IC's too much. But it's ok, usually town either goes "Oh the IC's are almighty" or "The IC's are evil and will use their powers to destroy the town" lol. That happened in Newb 10.
And please, it would be fun to play with you again. And when I meant Meta, I meant you reffering to Nabe's play, but I didn't notice you meant EM. Although, wouldn't that be the same? I don't know what EM is.
The Good doctor: Yeah, sorry to have had you go dude. : [ Hopefully you can join the next game and you can do better. : D
Nabe: I didn't have a read on you Nabe. I honestly didn't know who your scumpicks were, which made me suspicious of you. I was suspicious of you as was Joey of July, for the same reasons. Safe (but I called Joey out for only mentioning July and not you, he never responded I thinks) I don't care if I was the strongest player or not. I only need to care about winning, and improving, and having fun. That's all.
Ranmaru: You suck at mafia and you fluff alot. Fluff, it's just your nature. ;-;
X1: I thought you might have been mafia because you picked out my RVS list thing as a scum tell, and not a newb tell. I was honestly trying to get discussion going, as I have done before the damn game started.
July: You did great. Joey was right about you in a sense, but I would say it was my fault for derailing your lynch. ;-;
Dourin: Try not to react in the way you did to Nabe saying he would vote for you. That's about it, you did greatly with content, actually. I wouldn't mind playing with you again as town.
Dh: Hmmm, you agreed everywhere brah. Meh, you were scummy tho. What I didn't like was Nabe hammering you without asking. I was there. ;-;
Sky: Don't know why you replaced/was inactive, but it would have been nice to see you play. : D
Kuz: What are you doing here? lol. Jk.
Gova: Thanks for modding. :3
I was thinking Nabe/Oki the whole time.I also don't like how Nabe just "gave up" at the end. Like did we ever get a scum list from him?
Shout outs:
Oki: You did great. : D I'm sorry if you were just saying Dourin was being awesome just to be awesome... I really thought you were buddying there. You did fine with pressuring me. You really followed the IC's... But later one was saying X1 was hiding behind his IC status and not nabe. I didn't understand that. You ate'd alot, tho.
I honestly thought you were scum backing off me to join other wagons when you called me dopey.
But anyways, you did fine. Try not to follow the IC's too much. But it's ok, usually town either goes "Oh the IC's are almighty" or "The IC's are evil and will use their powers to destroy the town" lol. That happened in Newb 10.
And please, it would be fun to play with you again. And when I meant Meta, I meant you reffering to Nabe's play, but I didn't notice you meant EM. Although, wouldn't that be the same? I don't know what EM is.
The Good doctor: Yeah, sorry to have had you go dude. : [ Hopefully you can join the next game and you can do better. : D
Nabe: I didn't have a read on you Nabe. I honestly didn't know who your scumpicks were, which made me suspicious of you. I was suspicious of you as was Joey of July, for the same reasons. Safe (but I called Joey out for only mentioning July and not you, he never responded I thinks) I don't care if I was the strongest player or not. I only need to care about winning, and improving, and having fun. That's all.
Ranmaru: You suck at mafia and you fluff alot. Fluff, it's just your nature. ;-;
X1: I thought you might have been mafia because you picked out my RVS list thing as a scum tell, and not a newb tell. I was honestly trying to get discussion going, as I have done before the damn game started.
July: You did great. Joey was right about you in a sense, but I would say it was my fault for derailing your lynch. ;-;
Dourin: Try not to react in the way you did to Nabe saying he would vote for you. That's about it, you did greatly with content, actually. I wouldn't mind playing with you again as town.
Dh: Hmmm, you agreed everywhere brah. Meh, you were scummy tho. What I didn't like was Nabe hammering you without asking. I was there. ;-;
Sky: Don't know why you replaced/was inactive, but it would have been nice to see you play. : D
Kuz: What are you doing here? lol. Jk.
Gova: Thanks for modding. :3
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
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- 13,297
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- SW-0654 7794 0698
This is me in KSSU, with a scum pick. I made the mistake of missing Nabes vote on Joey, but it was an early vote. July missed me saying this.
That was where I was wrong. I have made recent mistakes like this in other games.
That was where I was wrong. I have made recent mistakes like this in other games.