KSSU: Helper to Hero Mafia/Newbie 11 - Game Over!

[ranmaru]

Yo nothing much, ready to have fun in this game.

 

[Dooms]

Me too~ This is going to be a great game! Kirby is amazing~

Unvote

 

[Oki]

Oh My God U Suck

The omgus makes sense now. o.o Nobody ever told me.

 

[ranmaru]

Err, quite quiet in here. ;-; Cmon guys!

ok, everyone.

Make a 3-number list of who you think is POSSIBLY scum, and put why. : 3 (Still RVS though)

Also, if you get a vote now, don't worry, it's only RANDOM VOTE STAGE. Just silly votes for now...

Joey - For voting me as soon as he shows up.
Dourin - For omgus :3

I only have 2 for now. At least give two. GO! :3

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

How about I just roll a dice so we can throw out 3 names because we obviously have something to from.


What you're posting now is just people voting and being here early. If we're going with gut feeling, who I think is mafia...

Not telling yet.

 

[Oki]

1. Ran - He is a sumo wrestler.
2. July - They are lovers and partners in crime.
3. Dourin - He's Gary monkeyfighting Oak.

But really I don't know.

 

[July]

Hey July, are you Alicia? o:

Yep yep

My 3 person list:
Ran- starting voting before mod announced day 1 : P
Oki- you meow, I maow; hopefully this can be compatible.
Nabe- partner in crime with Oki

But this is for the sake of answering your question Ran, still need much more info and to get to know Good Doctor and Top Ranger Skye.

 

[Dooms]

Aww man top 3 scum guys

Ran - Oh my god you suck (but I love you <3)
July - Oh my god you suck (but I love you <3)
Dourin - Oh my god you suck (I bet you were expecting love here, weren't you? ;D)

 

[Oki]

Ran and July are partners in crime.
Nabe and I are partners in crime.
July and I are "compatible."
I smell a foursome. ;D

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

Question to IC's:

Can you help us start off? I for one don't really have a clue what to do now other than random voting.

 

[The Good Doctor]

My list is
1)Myself
2)Ranmaru
3)Myself again


But I'm pretty drunk at the moment...

 

[ranmaru]

How about I just roll a dice so we can throw out 3 names because we obviously have something to from.


What you're posting now is just people voting and being here early. If we're going with gut feeling, who I think is mafia...

Not telling yet.

Yeah, I did that so we can start discussion.

Not telling yet, eh?

Well it seems X1 is in a party... NABE where you at.

Yes, people voting early. That, is RVS. RVS is random voting, so you can create discussion.

Town doesn't have anything BUT discussion to go off.


Also, The good doctor, why did you put me on your list? (you didn't give reasons)

and yourself? So you are saying you are scum?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Remember to take into account that people will be less active over holidays, as a general rule.

Has everyone familiarized themselves with the setup, in the opening post? If not, please do so now.

You'll notice in the setup that the majority of players in this game are vanilla townies; that is to say, a player with no nightly abilities whatsoever. Here on DGames, we say that vanilla townies do have abilities: their vote, and their voice. Being a vanilla townie doesn't make you a less important player; on the contrary, vanilla townies are often the most important townies in a game. It's the VTs, that have nothing but themselves to contribute, who are the movers in this game, and they're the ones whose job it is to catch scum at the end of the day.

For now, I'd like the next poster (aside from X1) to consider the roles of cop and doctor. What might our plan as a town look like if we had a plain cop and doctor? Why is that plan not viable in this game?

 

[Oki]

Well, we need to work on people who the cop and the doctor should be helping out.
In an ideal situation, the cop could come out and say "I'm the cop!" and if nobody counterclaimed, the doctor would quietly protect the cop from harm every night while he worked. However, that is not a viable plan because the doctor isn't allowed to use his ability every night, leaving the cop open to be picked off.

As it is right now, we should probably be trying to find confirmed town for the doctor to protect from night kills, and also we should work on finding suspicious people who show scummy behavior for the cop to be looking out for. The doctor is most important though right now, because he operates tonight. He's an odd night doctor, so he works on night 1, night 3, etc. The cop is an even night cop, so he can only investigate on night 2, night 4, etc, and isn't going to be able to investigate tonight.

 

[X1-12]

Vote: Oki

Question to IC's:

Can you help us start off? I for one don't really have a clue what to do now other than random voting.

Yeah sure:

Mafia games usually begin with the RVS (random vote stage) where players vote other players with the purpose of building discussion, from which we can begin to scum hunt (the process of finding mafia). During RVS, it is standard practice to also ask "random" questions which serve the same purpose as votes: to generate meaningful discussion.

The name RVS is actually lie, because people do not do things randomly (by the definition of the word). They will almost always have a reason for what they do (even if it's as simple as 'I felt like it'). A more apt name would be the 'Joke Vote Stage.' But if you want to be technical, the JVS could be considered a substage of RVS

tl;dr: RVS is a loosely defined term for the beginning of a mafia game, where there is no real or productive discussion related to scum hunting.

Now here I will look at a post that is supposedly RVS and look at the reason behind posting it, as a good start to the discussion.

Make a 3-number list of who you think is POSSIBLY scum, and put why. : 3 (Still RVS though)

Also, if you get a vote now, don't worry, it's only RANDOM VOTE STAGE. Just silly votes for now...

Joey - For voting me as soon as he shows up.
Dourin - For omgus :3

This post by Ran is interesting, he asks here in what he knows is the random vote stage, yet he asks for lists of who is scummy? Why would anyone know who is scummy from this point on. Surely this question is useless? Now it is often the case that scum will ask useless questions in an attempt to look as though they are contributing when they are not, and thus appear more townie. Instead of straight away placing your vote its sometimes best to ask questions.

@Ran: Why did you ask this question? What did you seek to gain?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Well, we need to work on people who the cop and the doctor should be helping out.
In an ideal situation, the cop could come out and say "I'm the cop!" and if nobody counterclaimed, the doctor would quietly protect the cop from harm every night while he worked. However, that is not a viable plan because the doctor isn't allowed to use his ability every night, leaving the cop open to be picked off.

You're correct. In a normal cop/doc situation, we have a doctor who can protect our cop. It's a very cushy scenario. In this game, we have very limited interaction between our cop and our doc. We'll talk about that more when it becomes relevant.

As it is right now, we should probably be trying to find confirmed town for the doctor to protect from night kills, and also we should work on finding suspicious people who show scummy behavior for the cop to be looking out for. The doctor is most important though right now, because he operates tonight. He's an odd night doctor, so he works on night 1, night 3, etc. The cop is an even night cop, so he can only investigate on night 2, night 4, etc, and isn't going to be able to investigate tonight.

You're wrong here, however. It's not our job to discern who the cop and doctor should be targeting during nights; it's their job to make an educated guess based on what they've read in the thread. The town should stick to plain scumhunting during the day until the power roles become relevant through some night action. It is important, however, to be aware of the situation.


To the town in general: there will often be several conversations going on in a game at once. Don't be afraid to step into those conversations if you feel there's something to be said. For that matter, don't be afraid to start one of your own. The game of mafia is all about open discussion between the players of the game, and I would encourage every player to be present and actively posting, no matter what the situation is at the time. If you don't understand what's going on, ask.

 

[ranmaru]

@Lol Oki at the foursome.

Well, here's the thing. There are two mafia... So we can rule out the possibility of couple maf... Maybe. (Because there are two couples, and it can't be both, so it can either be one of them, or maybe not. I know it's not us, though)

Also, Mafia might want to kill powerroles (cop and doctors) but since there isn't a... Never mind. I thought there were two cops. GOVAAAAAAA. Just kidding. : ]

Doctor, just protect the towniest person you think might be targeted, and protect him. Luckily since the Cop won't be working on your shift, his/her investigation won't be roleblocked by you. : ]


But yeah, I hear Doctors are the most important role, and probably more important then Mafia. Don't out yourself.

It is up to you. We will ask everyone who they think should be copped/docced, (with reasoning) and you can base your decision from that (but please try to base your reasoning too)


Cop, Investigate the scummiest person here. I'd say The Good Doctor now, due to his drunk scumlist. Why would he put himself on there?

How about Dourin? Dourin seems fine, he seems to reserve his votes/thoughts because he fears being pressured because of a silly mistake he might make.

Dourin, because of this, people might think you are indecisive. Don't be afraid to give out your thoughts, your thoughts, your opinion. That is what makes town powerful. Without voice or opinion, people can't question or note "Hey, he might be right, Let me ask that person questions to verify it"

Also another thing, if you reserve your thoughts for too long, people might think you are scum trying to "hide your intentions".


For the doctor... I'm not sure. Just pick someone that doesn't seem scummy, for now.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

Question for -Joey-

Do you think it is acceptable to hammer someone (putting the final vote on him to lynch him) three days before the deadline if you personally believe that person is scum?


Question for July

What would give more information according to you, a nightkill on day 1, or a lynch on day 1.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Ran, w.r.t. your post 57: I assume that you were writing this post while I was writing mine. What do you think of my attitudes to "leading" our power roles, compared to the attitudes you've expressed here? Please answer X1's question first, and then respond to this.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote: Oki




This post by Ran is interesting, he asks here in what he knows is the random vote stage, yet he asks for lists of who is scummy? Why would anyone know who is scummy from this point on. Surely this question is useless? Now it is often the case that scum will ask useless questions in an attempt to look as though they are contributing when they are not, and thus appear more townie. Instead of straight away placing your vote its sometimes best to ask questions.

@Ran: Why did you ask this question? What did you seek to gain?

Hmmm, I only asked that to create discussion. I know no one would know who is scummy, but it DID create discussion. As you said yourself, it's ok to ask "random" questions, that, is one of them.

Also I wanted to get newbies to get rolling with talk of scum and voting. It seemed a bit quiet to me. I wanted to transition from conversing about RPG's and such, and into serious business.

Town needs discussion, and I thought a random scum list would help. I know there couldn't be a town list because no one hasn't really gave opinions of anything. So, we can start from basing off scumminess, then townieness.

Yet, it is only a question. No harm in that. Useless doesn't matter in RVS. It's just fine.

Why not call it a "Dummy scumpick list" ok? Even my list only had two people, I had no reads yet.

Now, because of this, I noticed The good doctor placing me and himself in it. He placed himself twice, while drunk.

Did posting a "useless" question really harm town?

@Ran, w.r.t. your post 57: I assume that you were writing this post while I was writing mine. What do you think of my attitudes to "leading" our power roles, compared to the attitudes you've expressed here? Please answer X1's question first, and then respond to this.

As I posted I noticed you saying that we shouldn't. I felt contradicted... Because in the few games I have been in as a Newbie, I have noticed Cop/Doc directing.

Everyone was asked who should have been investigated/Protected, and even in an ongoing Game I am in that is non-existant, had spoken of cops/trackers.

So, this is the first time I have heard of sticking to scum hunting, while the Doc/Cop would decide by himself/herself.

I feel as though, it wouldn't matter WHO and WHAT we said about the cop/doc, because it's still up to the doc/cop to decide. I feel as though it's ok for people to speak about it, and speak who they believe should be protected/investigated. That way, the doc/cop can base their read from that, and not just from the intentions and truth behind truths of other's scumhunting decisions/questions/discussions.

 

[Dooms]

@Dourin: Depends on deadline time. If I think he's scum, and the deadline isn't near, then I'm just going to try to get a ton of info out there. If the deadline is near though, I'm gonna go on and hammer. Deadline is very important to me.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Vote Ranmaru
Because his heart is three sizes too small

 

[Oki]

@Mod: When do we get a votecount/how often? I know how it generally goes in Aimafia, but less so in forums.

Edit: Sorry this post is so lacking content, I am rushing out to dinner and wanted to drop a quick question. I will post more when I get back, in like an hour or so.

 

[July]

Question for July
What would give more information according to you, a nightkill on day 1, or a lynch on day 1.

I think a lynch on day 1 would provide more information, especially because the lynch can automatically reveal someone as scum or town (while a nightkilled person is always going to be revealed as town). Furthermore, the lynch is self-documenting. So after the person flips scum or town, we can go back and see everyone's interactions with the person, who supported the lynch and who was against it, who hammered, and that info can definitely help scum-hunt or even clear town.

So, this is the first time I have heard of sticking to scum hunting, while the Doc/Cop would decide by himself/herself.

I feel as though, it wouldn't matter WHO and WHAT we said about the cop/doc, because it's still up to the doc/cop to decide. I feel as though it's ok for people to speak about it, and speak who they believe should be protected/investigated. That way, the doc/cop can base their read from that, and not just from the intentions and truth behind truths of other's scumhunting decisions/questions/discussions.

I think the main point is that either way, the doc and the cop are not deciding by themselves; they are taking in everyone's actions and picking the scummiest to cop and the towniest to protect, and sticking to scum-hunting is one way to help the doc/cop in both their situations.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote Ranmaru
Because his heart is three sizes too small

My heart is quite big, actually. :] You gonna answer my question, bro? :3

I think the main point is that either way, the doc and the cop are not deciding by themselves; they are taking in everyone's actions and picking the scummiest to cop and the towniest to protect, and sticking to scum-hunting is one way to help the doc/cop in both their situations.

Exactly. Asking everyone who to protect/cop adds to discussion, which is still a factor in the cop's/doc's individual read. :3

Basically either way, the person does still decide themselves. They have to make the choice, not us. That's my point. They have to judge for themselves as well, while keeping our suggestions in mind. :3

 

[X1-12]

Hmmm, I only asked that to create discussion. I know no one would know who is scummy, but it DID create discussion. As you said yourself, it's ok to ask "random" questions, that, is one of them.

Also I wanted to get newbies to get rolling with talk of scum and voting. It seemed a bit quiet to me. I wanted to transition from conversing about RPG's and such, and into serious business.

Town needs discussion, and I thought a random scum list would help. I know there couldn't be a town list because no one hasn't really gave opinions of anything. So, we can start from basing off scumminess, then townieness.

Yet, it is only a question. No harm in that. Useless doesn't matter in RVS. It's just fine.

Why not call it a "Dummy scumpick list" ok? Even my list only had two people, I had no reads yet.

Now, because of this, I noticed The good doctor placing me and himself in it. He placed himself twice, while drunk.

Did posting a "useless" question really harm town?.

What useful discussion have you gained? You've managed to create lots of fluff (non-content). It created discussion but it was useless, not helping in scumhunting at all. At the end your justify what you did by saying it didn't harm town but often in mafia the way we scumhunt is by looking at the intent in peoples posts, and in this post your intent appears to only to look town. Good townies should not have to worry about appearing town.



In a game of mafia it is town's goal to catch scum, so as you play you should be always on the look out for posts which stand out to you or look scummy. It is however the job of scum to both survive and to appear as town. This is something you should keep in mind as you play

As I posted I noticed you saying that we shouldn't. I felt contradicted... Because in the few games I have been in as a Newbie, I have noticed Cop/Doc directing.

Everyone was asked who should have been investigated/Protected, and even in an ongoing Game I am in that is non-existant, had spoken of cops/trackers.

So, this is the first time I have heard of sticking to scum hunting, while the Doc/Cop would decide by himself/herself.

I feel as though, it wouldn't matter WHO and WHAT we said about the cop/doc, because it's still up to the doc/cop to decide. I feel as though it's ok for people to speak about it, and speak who they believe should be protected/investigated. That way, the doc/cop can base their read from that, and not just from the intentions and truth behind truths of other's scumhunting decisions/questions/discussions.

It generally is OK to direct PRs especially in open-setups like this where you know that their results are reliable, however its not usually done until late in the Day phase when the lynch has been finalised. Either way Doctor directs are usually not a good idea because all scum have to do is simply to avoid killing that player.

 

[ranmaru]

@X1:

No, my intent was to solely get discussion going. I have no worries about appearing town or not. If someone accuses me of not being town, I'll refute it. But, my priority is to scum hunt, and not appearing town.

I don't really know how to get people talking about scum rather than that. I thought it was fine because scum is our number one priority.

I random vote, and nothing.

I did that list thing, and people looked at meta.

And what is wrong with that at the start of the game? I would admit during the middle or near lylo/mylo, that fluff wouldn't belong.

Also, I thought fluff was just stuff Nabe does sometimes... Lol. (Talking about Pistachios and Dexter's Lab)

So how do you believe we can get on track, then X1?

 

[Gova]

Vote Ranmaru
Because his heart is three sizes too small

This vote does not count. You need to bold the vote as well as the players name.

E.g Vote: Gova

@Mod: When do we get a votecount/how often? I know how it generally goes in Aimafia, but less so in forums.

Edit: Sorry this post is so lacking content, I am rushing out to dinner and wanted to drop a quick question. I will post more when I get back, in like an hour or so.

I'll do a vote count once a day most likely or when someone requests it.


Here is the vote count though.

1. Ranmaru ()
2. July ()
3. -Joey- ()
4. Top Ranger Skye ()
5. The Good Doctor ()
6. Dourin-X ()
7. Oki (1) X1-12,
8. X1-12 ()
9. Nabe ()

Not voting: Ranmaru, July, Joey, Top Ranger Skye, The Good Doctor, Dourin-X, Oki, Nabe

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is January 9th at 11:59 PM CST ( -6 GMT)

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

@X1:

No, my intent was to solely get discussion going. I have no worries about appearing town or not. If someone accuses me of not being town, I'll refute it. But, my priority is to scum hunt, and not appearing town.

I don't really know how to get people talking about scum rather than that. I thought it was fine because scum is our number one priority.

I random vote, and nothing.

I did that list thing, and people looked at meta.

And what is wrong with that at the start of the game? I would admit during the middle or near lylo/mylo, that fluff wouldn't belong.

Well, that wouldn't be a very solid defense. Just refuting you're town hardly helps, the only way to get out of it is find/bring up posts where you helped town, or divert the attention to someone else.

About meta: In a newbie mafia, I don't think meta works, other than the two IC's.

And fluff is never good. I don't want to trawl through more posts/information than in necessary, and it's a good way to make it seem like you do things while your posts don't really contain anything.

@July, I like your answer.

Question for the good doctor

How do you feel about self-hammering?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: Joey

Skye, what are your thoughts on this game thus far? Does anyone stick out?

 

[ranmaru]

Well, that wouldn't be a very solid defense. Just refuting you're town hardly helps, the only way to get out of it is find/bring up posts where you helped town, or divert the attention to someone else.

About meta: In a newbie mafia, I don't think meta works, other than the two IC's.

And fluff is never good. I don't want to trawl through more posts/information than in necessary, and it's a good way to make it seem like you do things while your posts don't really contain anything.

@July, I like your answer.

Question for the good doctor

How do you feel about self-hammering?

No no. I understand that is a bad defense. I mean, I'd refute being scum, and give reasons as to why. Of course, you are right. Those are good reasons. I wouldn't only say "But I'm town! You have to believe me!" because that's a bad defense. : [ But more like "I'm town, and here is why: point 1. 2. 3..."

Right, and my point is, I was never trying to create fluff. Whenever you see one of my posts (in mafia) and it's long, it's not me trying to "fluff", that is just my posting style. I am a very detailed person, and I answer questions in full detail. (That's how I have been taught)

I consider my posts more like Wall of text's then Fluff.

I usually try to colour some of my long posts so that some of my ideas can stand out from others. : ]

 

[Oki]

@Dourin: Meta is a good tell to a certain extent but obviously this is the first time we've all played forum mafia with each other so yeah, agreed, it doesn't work. However, some of us have played aimafia with one another, so I kind of have a vague idea of how Ran and July play, and I know how Nabe plays pretty well I would say.

@Ran: Sometimes Nabe and I just get off track and pistachios seems more important than aimaf.

@Nabe: Lots of @s! I definitely didn't see your post about sticking to scumhunting. You're right though, thanks un.

 

[Dooms]

Vote: ranmaru

I don't agree with your logic behind your posts. I think it's scummy.

 

[Oki]

Vote: Ranmaru
His playstyle is very weird and is making it seem like he's nervous. This isn't a definitive vote yet though, I could be persuaded to change it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

That's a good post, but assume we don't agree. What about his reasoning is scummy to you?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ninja'd, I meant Joey.
Oki, what about his playstyle is weird?

 

[X1-12]

Vote: Ranmaru

He is now at L-2, note that any attempt to end the Day early (i.e before I say its OK) will be taken to mean you are scum. Premature hammers are anti-town as they stop town from being able to gather information

 

[X1-12]

@Nabe: How are you feeling about Dourin?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

His posts so far have been largely talk about game mechanics. The parts that aren't regarding game mechanics are questions posed to players, including entire posts consisting of a question or two. Asking questions is good. However, the questions he's asking have very little reason to be asked. In particular, his response from July is curious, in that he has nothing more to say about it than "I like your answer".

Was his purpose to get her talking, or to look busy? I'd like the next poster to share their opinion on that.

 

[Oki]

@Nabe: Ran said himself that the least scummy thing to do in his opinion was to let your thoughts out. He said that if you make it clear you don't hide your intentions and talk a lot about what you are thinking, it makes you seem very pro-town, and that when you're quiet, it comes across as scummy.

It seems odd to me that he gave out the advice "be vocal, you will look like town" to people and now he is being /very/ vocal. It is like he is trying to talk way too much, kind of fluffing up his posts, to follow his own advice and look pro-town, when maybe he's not. All this talk is making him come across as nervous to me and not vanilla.

It's my opinion though, and as I'm not sure he's scum, no more than I am sure that any of you are town. So my vote is to put pressure on him and to confirm my leanings toward him, and I could be convinced to change it or unvote if our attentions turn to someone else, or if it seems like there is going to be a premature hammer.

Edit: I was posting this as Nabe was posting the above post, and I guess it kind of answers his question? I'll think about it though. Wait no. It doesn't at all, his above post is not about Ran. @_@ Got confused.