KSSU: Helper to Hero Mafia/Newbie 11 - Game Over!

[ranmaru]

@Nabe: I guess I don't really have a read on Joey for now. The inactivity could be his being busy, or it could be him being reserved. I don't want to say he is sounding scummy, because he has posted a lot of good content, when he does post. Also, he mentioned that he didn't think post #50 made Dourin look either scummy or town, so I think he might be vanilla, just reserved. I'd like him to talk more though.

Be careful of repeats. Also, the bold, means "Null".

6. Dourin-X[/COLOR] - Seems to be asking the right questions and instilling discussion, which is good for town. : ]

This wasn't referencing #50 at all. He is asking questions, and even making discussion.

Why is post #50 a null tell? Dourin is "asking the right questions and instilling discussion" via post #50, the thing you are determining he is town because of.

Bold: Wasn't the sole determining factor of my town read for Dourin.

@Question for Oki:
Italica;DeepBlueSky:
Doesn't this conflict with your town read for Joey? I'm confused, can you explain?

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP:

@Ran: Why did you say "who will step up and take control?" Why did you not step up?

I felt as though the IC's weren't posting much, and sort of laying back, as if letting town run amuck. That, makes me feel uneasy.

Although, I just felt that way more of Nabe than you, X1. I also feel as though he doesn't really help my "poor communication with town" when I ask him a question.

I don't really know to get across to town better, and I feel he may be trying to downplay me.

Plus, I would step up, but I wanted other's opinions. Plus, I think we'll have to do this as a team, and not just one person standing up.

 

[X1-12]

btw its "amok", "run amok"

Plus, I would step up, but I wanted other's opinions. Plus, I think we'll have to do this as a team, and not just one person standing up.[/COLOR]

This is so scummy it hurts. You would have stepped up, but you were essentially waiting for someone else to say something first. Then you are now saying we should do this as a team, despite only a few posts earlier asking for someone to do the front line work. Why this sudden change?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Unvote
Vote: Top Ranger Skye; this puts her at L-1.

I'm seeing a lot of slightly skewed uses of the word 'pressure'. We can certainly apply pressure to a player who is here to see that pressure. What, however, can we do to affect a player who isn't here?

The short answer is that we can't make an inactive player come to the thread, unless they're already paying attention to the thread. In TRS' case, we can see on her profile that she hasn't logged on since January 2nd. While there is the possibility that she is viewing the thread as a guest, without logging in, I think the likelier answer is the one she's given us: she's busy at school.

What does this mean for our plan of pressuring her? If she were here, she would see our votes and respond. Since she's not, our voting for her can only have a single outcome, and that outcome will take place when she returns to the thread. That outcome is hopefully that she gives the game a bit more focus.

But what if she doesn't return to the thread before the deadline? Dourin touches on this in his response; he says we should lynch her if she doesn't show up. Is this our best option? What are the benefits of lynching Skye?

@Ran and @July: I'd like you to evaluate the pros and cons of lynching TRS for us. Ran takes the pros, July the cons.

 

[Oki]

@X1: What is the policy here for if, say, TRS just never participates? Do we prod the player and then replace? I'm just wondering.

@Dourin: I don't like that. The idea of lynching an inactive doesn't sit well with me. I don't know the policy here, but if it is to replace inactives I'd prefer that, if TRS flips town when we lynch her that is one less person to keep us from a wolf win.

Bold: Wasn't the sole determining factor of my town read for Dourin.

@Question for Oki:
Italica;DeepBlueSky:
Doesn't this conflict with your town read for Joey? I'm confused, can you explain?

I like. Do not even know what you are asking anymore. I am getting lost in your back and forth quotes and also in your color coding. Please use your words? But not 5 pages of your words. Because I am really getting lost.

Be careful of repeats. Also, the bold, means "Null"./quote]

The bold is not null. He is not making a judgment concerning #50 yet, rather than rushing in and saying "no he is definitely cleared ___." I'm glad that he is putting his own thoughts out there rather than being quick to jump on the "clear Dourin" bandwagon. It seems very town to me.

Repeats are just fine, just saying "this is null" doesn't make it null, you are not the IC here and my understanding of the game is no more or less null than yours.

 

[Oki]

Lol screwed up quotes in my last post, oh well.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

I don't really know to get across to town better, and I feel he may be trying to downplay me.

I don't think it's an IC's job to defend you.



So, my thoughts on Ran. As cliché as it may be, he is in fact, my main suspect!

It's not because of the reasons others have. I think your contributing is "alright", it's not like you're not trying. However, you're really beating too much on that point when people say you're not contributing. You keep talking about how you made a scum pick list, how you were voting and you posted all your thoughts.
Your scum list doesn't count, though, because 1. It was just in RVS and had no use yet, and 2. Scum lists come naturally. It's also not a very innovative contribution and sounds like you did it solely to contribute.

It's not even that you post too much. As much as I hate wall of texts, I'm not going to think you're scum for it, as long as it only contains the necessary things.

What it is that you're doing, is that you try to do too much. You believe you're going to flip toDay because we want you lynched, so you make as many connections as possible.
I also agree with Nabe's #168. You are posting too much about everything. You adress three people, all with different arguments in the same post, and do this a few times.

I feel that you're just playing a newbie scum. You're more intended on being a good townie than actually helping us find scum. Maybe this is because you are scum, maybe you're sincerely a bit lost.


Your last posts about standing up as a team and waiting for others to step up, they do indeed reek of scum as X1 said. There is only one team in Mafia games and that is the Mafia team. Town can't trust anyone other than confirmed townies, so you can't really trust on another to make a move forward first. I know you're very suspicious of X1 because of his role of power as an IC. If you are so concerned he is guiding town in the wrong direction, you should definitely start taking the ropes yourself and bring us onto a new subject or bring new, interesting things on the table.

This post is getting much longer than I hoped it would be.

I'm also confused by your stances. You say that an inactive (or lurker, I just call them all lurkers) gives a null read now, right?
When I asked your opinion on how you feel about lynch all lurkers-policy, you responded that you wouldn't mind it.

Well, I wouldn't mind lynching someone who is inactive or posting little to no content. We can't determine a person's alignment if they don't contribute, and they can be scum just laying low until Lylo. That, is too easy of a win. This, I learned from my first game.

This was your #126.
Would someone not contributing not just be a scum tell, because it's so easy to just roll through the game for scum doing nothing. Also, town's goal is to find and lynch scum. This is impossible if you hardly contribute or post your thoughts. I'd say you'd be working against town and this is thus a scum trait.
This is why I thought you didn't think lurkers were giving just a null read and why you are contradicting yourself.


All I can say is, you've made it far to clear that you want to make connections when you die, so the players who think that connection would be unfavorable could easily do things to make a connection seem more unlikely. Just posting your thoughts on someone and saying "I believe he is town" before you die isn't a connection, by the way.

Okay, cutting it off here, what a horribly long post.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

unvote

I also have a say in this, and I'm not going to leave her at L-1.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

Nabe why would you put her at L-1 if it's not even of any use if she's not viewing the thread?

I believe putting her at L-2 and just lynching her if she doesn't do anything by the end of the day is pressure enough.

 

[Oki]

I don't think we should pressure TRS, because she's not even reading. We should just ignore her case until she actually does something, and just lynch her if she doesn't do anything.

unvote

I also have a say in this, and I'm not going to leave her at L-1.

I feel like this is a little contradictory. Why would you be for lynching her but not for leaving her at L-1? Worse comes to worse someone hammers her, and she gets lynched, like you said you were ok with. Can you explain un? Just curious.

 

[X1-12]

@Dourin: Its important to understand the difference between Inactives and lurkers. Inactives are people who genuinely are not there to play, whereas lurking strongly implies that the player is intentionally not posting.

@Oki: Inactives should be replaced, following on from what I just said to Dourin, someone who posts a 1 liner every 47 hours should be lynched. Someone who is not there at all should be replaced.

@All: The lynch for toDay has in no-way been set, it is still up in the air. Skye is at L-1 and hopefully when she views this thread she will read it all and then post lots of helpful information. Failing that she will be lynched - yes I'm serious. I summed it up well by saying that I want to give Skye a warm welcome.



For those times where your vote is already placed elsewhere but you still want to indicate your suspicion of somewhere, there is a handy tool known as the Finger of Suspicion, it essentially is a way of making clear your opinion about another player. For example at this moment I am voting for Skye, however I still believe Ranmaru to be scum so I will type

FoS: Ranmaru

FoS obviously being just the shorthand. The fingers of suspicion are not official nor counted by the mod, just a good way to show where you think the scum is. If you really need if you can even wave the HoS (Hand of suspicion) however thats when the metaphor starts getting pushed a little too far.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

I feel like this is a little contradictory. Why would you be for lynching her but not for leaving her at L-1? Worse comes to worse someone hammers her, and she gets lynched, like you said you were ok with. Can you explain un? Just curious.

This day leaves a lot to still be discussed, I'd rather not have the day be finished early.

However, I see where you, X1 and Nabe are coming from with leaving her at L-1. Trading a townie for someone who is most likely scum definitely seems like a good deal, but the likelihood of scum hammering her right now is fairly close to zero. I also think it's just more of a question of wanting to give TSR sort of another chance to play.

I understand how the above statement of her probably not being hammered by scum also undermines the argument of why I take my vote off her, but yeah, I guess it's just not something I want to see happening yet.

Anyone else can of course feel free to vote her, but I'm not in on this yet.

Also, watch out for accidental hammers. I've seen it happen before. Townies weren't thinking, and before they knew it, they hammered accidently.

 

[X1-12]

I stress this very much IF ANYONE OTHER THAN NABE VOTES FOR TOP RANGER SKYE, YOU WILL BE CONSIDERED AS 100% CONFIRMED SCUM. This is in effect until I say so.

This still applies. If I want someone to vote for Skye I will ask you by name, otherwise don't do it, it opens up doors to accidental hammers, fake accidental hammers and all sorts.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nabe why would you put her at L-1 if it's not even of any use if she's not viewing the thread?

I believe putting her at L-2 and just lynching her if she doesn't do anything by the end of the day is pressure enough.

In all other instances, I would agree with you. However, in this instance, my intent was to see what effect a player at L-1 would have on other players.

In reality, L-1 is only less safe than L-2 if we don't trust our fellow townies to make bad judgment calls, or if we think scum might hammer* in a dangerous situation later in the game. On Day 1, and with X1 having made it abundantly clear how we would treat a hammer at this point, there's very little to worry about.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, I expected you to unvote at this juncture. That was my sole purpose in placing TRS at L-1; I wanted your reaction. L-2 is ideal and we should continue at L-2.


* The 'hammer' is the last vote on a player, i.e. L-0.
'Hammering' is the act of casting that final vote.

 

[Oki]

@Dourin: I agree that the chance of scum hammering her is close to 0, especially since X1 has basically promised that we will take down the hammer. I am really unsurprised that you unvoted, even though you said "lynch her if she doesn't say anything," and I was pretty sure I knew what you were thinking. But I wanted to make sure there was some consistency between your two opinions.

I prefer people to give their own explanations and thoughts. Who knows? You could have not seen that question coming and said something super scummy! Meow!

@Nabe and X1 primarily, and kind of @ everyone: When do we consider TRS to be inactive inactive and when do we consider her to be lurking? I mean, she hasn't been here in the thread that I've seen, reading and neglecting to post. She hasn't been here at all, except to be like "sorry I am so busy."

I just am nervous about lynching her if she turns out to be inactive town what needs replacing. Or about lynching her if she comes back and we all decide that her inactivity was just too scummyish.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

@Dourin: I agree that the chance of scum hammering her is close to 0, especially since X1 has basically promised that we will take down the hammer. I am really unsurprised that you unvoted, even though you said "lynch her if she doesn't say anything," and I was pretty sure I knew what you were thinking. But I wanted to make sure there was some consistency between your two opinions.

Yea, but you forgot the add the important part of "at the end of the Day" to my statement.

 

[Oki]

Ah, Dourin, I didn't see that. Regardless, I'm still glad I asked how I did and you answered how you did.

 

[X1-12]

Skye won't die without posting. She should be replaced before the deadline if she literally does not post. I do not plan to keep the whole day revolved around Skye, the votes are just there so, as I said, she gets a warm welcome when she comes back.

 

[Dooms]

I feel like his vote was to get her to post something, not to put her in a potential lynch situation for scum. >_>

 

[X1-12]

^that is misleading. To clarify

If she comes into the thread and posts good content etc. She will survive toDay

If she comes into the thread and posts crap. She will die toDay

If she does not come into the thread, she will be replaced.

 

[X1-12]

Ninja'd. I was talking about my own post there.



Also if I didn't say already. Don't try to use meta from AIMmafia and apply it to forum

 

[Dooms]

Oh I didn't notice there was another page sorry that was a responce to the bottom post on page 14 @__@.

I don't think TRS is here at all sooo I don't think we should have a read on her at all at this point or put her near a lynch. L-anything is completely pointless because it's not going to get her in the thread more since she doesn't know about it. We're basicly just voting a random townie/scummy and hoping that it'll get her to post a great amount of detail or something. That probably won't happen until atleast after she reads the whole thread. >_> If the activity gets worse she'll get replaced. I'm just not worrying about her right now.

 

[X1-12]

please read my posts. If you have already, read them again as you evidently haven't understood what I am suggesting

 

[Dooms]

Even if she doesn't give a lot of helpful information, that doesn't change the fact that Ran AND TGD are still really scummy. I wouldn't throw away a vote on them for TRS is what I'm saying. Unless she makes AWFUL (not just crappy) posts.

 

[X1-12]

#211: paragraph 3

 

[Oki]

Nobody is suggesting throwing out our current FoSs for TRS unless it is necessary. Go back and read X1's logic. It is good logic and it is like you posted again without reading it like he said. o.o

 

[Oki]

^ Edit: I am addressing Joey in my previous post.

 

[Dooms]

@All: The lynch for toDay has in no-way been set, it is still up in the air. Skye is at L-1 and hopefully when she views this thread she will read it all and then post lots of helpful information. Failing that she will be lynched - yes I'm serious. I summed it up well by saying that I want to give Skye a warm welcome.

I STILL disagree with this. Even after re-reading it a bunch of times, I can't agree with it. Unless she posts a bunch of awful content or does really scummy or things that are really just not good for town like Ran/TGD have, then I don't see why we should lynch her over those two in any situation. I've read all of your posts on this page more than once. My thoughts havn't changed.

 

[ranmaru]

@X1:
I didn't mean one person doing the front work. I meant more than one person putting their ideas together and getting rid of scum. It seems as you have misread me as if I have been trying to "take control".

I asked instead of saying "We should" because it seems the town would rather be open to "Would you guys like to talk about this?" instead of "I believe this should be done"

I was told that I shouldn't impose my beliefs onto others, which is why I asked the question in a more welcoming matter.

@Nabe:

Pros of lynching Skye: We lynch a person who may or may not be scum. Either way, regardless of alignment, people who don't contribute enough can be hurtful for town. But once lynched, the Town can move on to other matters. (Meaning the inactive can bog town down)

Cons of Lynch Skye: Town loses one possible townsperson, and it's probable it is a townie because there are a great number of Townies. Town down a person, and basically an easy lynch for scum.

Sorry, I'm not Biased, Nabe.

 

[Dooms]

You don't realize that out of our current scum picks, lynching an inactive could mean lynching a power role. We don't want that at ALL. >_>

 

[Oki]

@Joey: But if she really is an /inactive/ and not a lurker, we won't lynch her.

 

[ranmaru]

So guys, since toNITE will be the night for the doctor to protect, who do you all think should be protected?

This is what I think:

July
Joey
Dourin

Pick one of them.



@Nabe:
Do you think we should be talking about this?

@Dourin:
Of course I'd make connections before I die. That is town's most important tool to finding scum, association with death. And I mean Lynch death. NK deaths are deaths who Scum get to kill, so we don't get as much info from those.

 

[ranmaru]

@Joey: You don't know who it is until the very flip. Plus, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't rely on power roles in this game anyways. >_>

 

[Oki]

@Ran: We were told not to give the doctor suggestions. We already discussed this.

Unvote

I am convinced that Ran is maybe not as scummy as he is just kind of dopey. He is very much in his own world and I think his comments that seem so scummy it hurts are just dumb ones. I am going to save my vote until later.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

Yes, but you can't make decent connections if you go around stating "hey I'm making connections to everyone in case I die", because that makes them kind of invalid.

And, on the contrary, connections are MORE important for nightkills than lynches.
Lynches have votes to go on to see what happened. For nightkills, the only thing we can see when someone dies is connections he held to other players.

 

[X1-12]

Broski, I have already made it clear that PR directing should be done at the end of the Day, unless you have good reason to do it now, don't do it ¬¬ Anyway I already know how I will direct the doctor toNight, jussayin.

A "connection" also means nothing without any context. Saying player x will be "connected" helps us in no way. It is actually imo the flips of scum (via lynches) that give the most information, for example if Ran flipped scum now I would look at oki because of his post #234 and his unvote

I think everyone in this game is overplaying the importance of connections, especially since no-one has died yet

 

[Dooms]

July
Joey
Dourin

Pick one of them.

Ran
TGD

Pick one of them. Perferably Ran.

 

[Dooms]

Oki is a her and you should know that X1. -so dissapointed-

 

[X1-12]

Yeah sorry wasn't thinking.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran
TGD

Pick one of them. Perferably Ran.

You know I meant Doc protect, right? I meant for the doc to pick one of the three I listed.

Well, since X1 says he got this, ok. I won't speak of it for now.