Guide Knitting a Yoshi Chart - MU Portal

[Sinister Slush]

Diddy Kong thread den eventually and Luigi Mario and Sheik tied for 2nd.

Wut we wanna talk about for 2nd discussion.
My scene doesn't suffer from Sheik yet, but we're crawling with the mario brothers so I'd like to talk about them but up to what everyone else wants to get done first.

x3
x3
x3

 

[Delta-cod]

Vote's still on Sheik first.

 

[EarthRyno]

I vote Sheik.

 

[Forty4]

Sheik. lol 10 characters

 

[Sinister Slush]

Sheik it is.


I been up all night so Imma sleep in a bit, I'll make the threads later unless someone else wants too, it doesn't matter who does tbh as long as they're made and then linked to the enemy boards.

Also my 2 cents on discussing things even though we all chose already.
Since it's Diddy/Sheik, the top tiers in all games usually have lots of players but almost never discuss match ups by posting in their boards for obvious reasons. Top tier and do incredibly well against more than 80 or so % of the cast.

In this case, since Diddy/sheik are so common we play it a bunch anyways so why discuss with them when they prolly won't give much info or stuff we haven't already experienced from playing against the characters multiple times.
Just how I see it kinda, like why discuss MK vs Yoshi in brawl anyways, he wins 100:0 (not rly) anyways and we played that MU 1000 times lol

 

[Nu~]

Hello Yoshi mains ^^
We are currently discussing the yoshi matchup over at the pacman thread.

Rotten Eggs or Fresh Produce?

It would be amazing if you guys could stop on by and help us out.

 

[SupremeSuperiorStick]

Let's talk about Yoshi vs Sheik. From Sheik's side it's really frustrating because Yoshi can break out of aerial strings with double jump super armour and nair. It seems like all his aerials beat Sheik's, so you almost never want to compete with them. Sheik can chain lots of strings but kills really late, but Yoshi kills faster and has strong aerials which help him take the stock lead even when far behind in percent. I honestly think that the match-up is 50:50 if not in Yoshi's favour.

 

[Ben Prochazka]

Can we talk about the Peach Matchup.


Also can we talk about how a turnip takes away double jump.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Well let's get started den.
Click the heads to be directed to the threads, also taking suggestions on how to keep discussion alive and how to pretty up the threads more if needed.
We still wanna do 2 weeks for every discussion and maybe a week break to vote for next 2 or just go about all this at our own pace?

 

[Forty4]

Not really the best place to post this, but the Palutenas need our help. http://smashboards.com/threads/why-is-yoshi-so-freaking-impossible.391473/#post-18597105

 

[GSM_Dren]

After getting worked by a sonic, I say we should do a discussion sometime in the near future. It was brutal.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

+1 on Sonic, that character is ********.

No character as fast as Sonic should have a kill throw unless they don't have any other kill moves, lol.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Sonic's main thing in brawl was not-so-great damage rack up and no kill moves except for throwing out 50+ bairs in one game.
Now that sonic has both from all the buffs he got, nerfs we got + smash 4 mechanics, it's no longer an even MU.

If people wanna discuss stuff still, we can go onto it maybe next month or something.
Since the boards are slow since the move back in 2013, Yoshi boreds been slow evidenced by how both Mu discussions we wanted not getting much outside of Stein making a write up yesterday.
The pace we're currently at being this slow, we'll just do two every month or so whenever people wanna talk about stuff.

 

[Collective of Bears]

My heart sinks any time I see somebody pick Sonic. Not just while I'm playing Yoshi, just in general. He's such an irritating character to fight against. He has next to no commitment to anything he does. And it doesn't help that I already have a deep-seeded hatred for everything Sonic stands for.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Hello Yoshi Boards!
The Bowser Jr boards have a match up thread for Yoshi now!
I know I tried to analyze the matchup a little bit but you guys know Yoshi better than me and we'd love your input! If you have time to stop by it would be greatly appreciated!
http://smashboards.com/threads/vs-yoshi.393257/

 

[FullMoon]

Hello Yoshi mains, we in the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Yoshi MU, so any input from you guys would be really helpful: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...ke-yoshi-3-2-3-9.369356/page-13#post-18695566

Tongue buddies gotta stick together after all:

 

[Sinister Slush]

Never played against really good greninja's yet. But I'll update OP later (not like anybody reads first post these days)
This post also a bump kinda in hopes of getting people who have played the MU to put their input.

 

[Douchuumen]

Hey Yoshi mains, how do you think Yoshi does against campy characters such as Villager, Rosalina, Olimar and DHD?

 

[Delta-cod]

My gut tells me he does well against those characters. He's heavy and doesn't die too easily in general, and is mobile. This mobility carries over into his egg game, so I feel like he can weave around opponents' projectiles while pressuring them with his own well.

But I lack any practical experience to confirm or deny this.

 

[Meerkat]

I played a Rosalina this weekend, and Yoshi does pretty okay as long as you stay away from Rosalina while Luma's alive. Use eggs to wear her and Luma down and force an approach. If they are in close, GET IN BETWEEN THEM. Luma is an idiot if there is someone between it and Rosalina, and straight up will not move. If you can knock back Rosalina in this position, she'll be helpless while you go ham on Luma.

When Luma's gone, rushing down Rosalina is the best option. Use eggs if she tries to run away. If you get her offstage, try to gimp her. Her recovery isn't the best and if you can somehow force her underneath the stage, she may not be able to get back because of the angle of her recovery.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hello fellow animal friends.
We have started discussion on the vs MU at the Fox boards:
All Aircraft Report! Fox Match Up Discussion Thread

We look forward to discussing the futuristic animal vs the dino animal MU with you.

 

[Sinister Slush]

You didn't actually link to the thread though.
Bout time finally.

 

[DavemanCozy]

You didn't actually link to the thread though.
Bout time finally.

Yep, I fixed it. I goofed.

And yeah, finally we got an MU thread.

 

[cree318]

Hey Yoshi players, we'd love some help determining the MU between Villager and Yoshi. We've got a discussion going on, but getting input from some Yoshi mains would definitely help!

http://smashboards.com/threads/town...tchup-discussion.370525/page-15#post-18724395

 

[Sinister Slush]

Updated OP adding greninja villager and Car Fax. Pac-man put it fer 45:55
Wanna mention that if there's still a ?/? for us but a ratio for them, they most likely put it there themselves without us really discussing with them yet.
So we'll get back to those eventually, Sheik and Diddy getting some discussion so far but I might just put em at -2 for us in the next week or two.

Am I the only one doing half these Match-up write ups?

C'mon Scoob....
Help me out everyone.

 

[Reaper Talk]

@ Sinister Slush
I'm relatively new to Smashboards but I am somewhat experienced, I'm going to EVO 2015 so I actually need to know every match up
Here's my thoughts on some characters if you want to have further discussion

Against Captain Falcon
Pros
+Eggs give us a lot of spacing, making it harder for CF to set up Bairs and Nairs
+We have by far the superior grab range
+Yoshi has better air game in general
+Yoshi's up air can land on CF fairly easy

Cons
-We don't have a Falcon Punch
-CF down-throw to fair can KO easy near the ledge
-Approaches have to be taken with caution, CF 's jabs have good range

I think Yoshi is in favor of this match up 60:40

I'll add more when I can, hopefully the Yoshi army will unite to finish these match ups
I'll work on Yoshi vs. Fox next
(Hopefully that helped a little, I know it wasn't the most in depth analysis)

 

[Jp3]

Just some general discussion to bring up regarding Yoshi matchups.
Figured I'd give all my opinions on this, they're all super subject to change and are based mostly on theory.

I'll give some reasons why I think a character is good/bad vs Yoshi, but overall i'll leave it ambiguous until someone asks a question regarding it. (This is also assuming customs on/off.)

ORIGINAL

• 70:30
  
• 60:40
  
• 55:45
  
• 50:50
  
  
• 45:55
  
• 40:60
  

UPDATE [3/31/2015]

Spoiler

60:40
55:45
50:50
45:55
40:60

Overall I think Yoshi goes even with most characters in the game, good or bad. I feel like he def has more good matches then bad, but struggles with speed and disjoints.
Matchup discussion is interesting, but I really feel like most of Yoshis could be 50/50 - 60/40.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Umm...
I can't tell what's the good match-ups or the bad match-ups. If you're putting silly things like D3 greninja down at the bottom it feels like they're, in your opinion, our bad Match-ups? (when they're not) but then you have stuff like us beating Pikachu or going even with Sheik.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Just some general discussion to bring up regarding Yoshi matchups.
Figured I'd give all my opinions on this, they're all super subject to change and are based mostly on theory.

Zero Suit Samus among others are definitely in our favor and Bowser isn't a 70:30 matchup...it may be in our favor, but not 70:30...

 

[Jp3]

Umm...
I can't tell what's the good match-ups or the bad match-ups. If you're putting silly things like D3 greninja down at the bottom it feels like they're, in your opinion, our bad Match-ups? (when they're not) but then you have stuff like us beating Pikachu or going even with Sheik.

Good, then lets talk about it. It's all about sparking discussion, which is proving to work.
I changed my list a little bit since I posted but it's all 100% subject to change, and will change as I learn more.

I'll touch on 2 matchups for now, and why I put them where I did.


Personally I think D3 isn't that bad of a match up at all and it probably closer to even or maybe slightly in D3s favour.
I say this because I think the character is generally hard for us to pull off the regular stuff on. I feel like he is a good combo weight for us but he generally out ranges us. Gordos are a non factor in almost all cases. I also feel like Yoshi has some crazy good off stage game, but D3 is hard to gimp overall. I feel like any character that can out range us with disjoints give us a hard time. (See Shulk as another example).


I feel like this matchup is one of, if not, our easiest matchup in the game. Even though Bowser has a much more reliable kit in this game, playing against him seems really straight forward. He cant really deal with eggs, and we can space fairs (retreating or approaching) on him all day, its even relitively safe on shield, even against his up-b out of shield. This coupled with the fact that hes probably one of the perfect combo weights for us make it seem like he has a really hard time in this match up.


If you disagree with me, good. Lets talk about why I'm wrong. I want to learn.

 

[Doublenickels]

Good, then lets talk about it. It's all about sparking discussion, which is proving to work.
I changed my list a little bit since I posted but it's all 100% subject to change, and will change as I learn more.

I'll touch on 2 matchups for now, and why I put them where I did.


Personally I think D3 isn't that bad of a match up at all and it probably closer to even or maybe slightly in D3s favour.
I say this because I think the character is generally hard for us to pull off the regular stuff on. I feel like he is a good combo weight for us but he generally out ranges us. Gordos are a non factor in almost all cases. I also feel like Yoshi has some crazy good off stage game, but D3 is hard to gimp overall. I feel like any character that can out range us with disjoints give us a hard time. (See Shulk as another example).


I feel like this matchup is one of, if not, our easiest matchup in the game. Even though Bowser has a much more reliable kit in this game, playing against him seems really straight forward. He cant really deal with eggs, and we can space fairs (retreating or approaching) on him all day, its even relitively safe on shield, even against his up-b out of shield. This coupled with the fact that hes probably one of the perfect combo weights for us make it seem like he has a really hard time in this match up.


If you disagree with me, good. Lets talk about why I'm wrong. I want to learn.

I see what you're saying with Dedede, but with Dedede being my other main, I always find it harder from the D3 side of the matchup. Against Yoshi as D3, there's a lot to worry about, eggs are a pain because D3 has such a big hurt box, Yoshi deals with gordos very well, it is easy to get most of the hits from dair on D3, the large hurtbox also makes it easy for Yoshi to land egg lay, and when damage is so easy to rack up, the whole gimping thing becomes a non-factor. Meteor fair at higher percents eliminates D3's great vertical recovery, non-meteor fair KO's at high percents as well, and f-smash too. D3 is tough to KO off the top but those options (uair, usmash, downB) are still there at really high percents, which D3 lives to frequently. The only issue is D3's early kill power, but as long as you aren't fishing for kills and don't get caught up by a gordo below the ledge, you should be fine.

Bowser, which is another character I play with fairly often, I agree, it is definitely in Yoshi's favor, but I think you're oversimplifying the matchup. Bowser has a lot of solid options against aerials, whether it be shield to dash attack, fire, or his uptilt and upsmash. So just throwing out fairs isn't exactly a great way to go about it. His tilts have good range and incredible damage output and knockback. His aerials are also surprisingly good, if you just let him approach it is an easy matchup, but it can get shaky if you get caught fishing for kills or playing too aggressively, since a good Bowser will make you pay for wiffs and will find ways to bait out your aerials and punish hard, if you're too aggressive. It's definitely in our favor, but I don't think it is a cake walk like you're making it out to be.

 

[Jp3]

I see what you're saying with Dedede, but with Dedede being my other main, I always find it harder from the D3 side of the matchup. Against Yoshi as D3, there's a lot to worry about, eggs are a pain because D3 has such a big hurt box, Yoshi deals with gordos very well, it is easy to get most of the hits from dair on D3, the large hurtbox also makes it easy for Yoshi to land egg lay, and when damage is so easy to rack up, the whole gimping thing becomes a non-factor. Meteor fair at higher percents eliminates D3's great vertical recovery, non-meteor fair KO's at high percents as well, and f-smash too. D3 is tough to KO off the top but those options (uair, usmash, downB) are still there at really high percents, which D3 lives to frequently. The only issue is D3's early kill power, but as long as you aren't fishing for kills and don't get caught up by a gordo below the ledge, you should be fine.

Bowser, which is another character I play with fairly often, I agree, it is definitely in Yoshi's favor, but I think you're oversimplifying the matchup. Bowser has a lot of solid options against aerials, whether it be shield to dash attack, fire, or his uptilt and upsmash. So just throwing out fairs isn't exactly a great way to go about it. His tilts have good range and incredible damage output and knockback. His aerials are also surprisingly good, if you just let him approach it is an easy matchup, but it can get shaky if you get caught fishing for kills or playing too aggressively, since a good Bowser will make you pay for wiffs and will find ways to bait out your aerials and punish hard, if you're too aggressive. It's definitely in our favor, but I don't think it is a cake walk like you're making it out to be.

Yeah I think thats pretty fair for both characters.
I'm going to update my list a bit, (I'll include my original one as reference in my last post, but hide it or something)

Heres my new list

Spoiler

UPDATE [3/31/2015]

60:40
55:45
50:50
45:55
40:60

Thanks for the insight

 

[ividal]

wonder why toon link hasnt been touched, i feel its one of our harder matchups since Tink has better stage control, id like to know what you guys think about this match up vs

 

[DragN]

Tink is annoying. Moreso than regular Link due to the faster floatier projectiles that can frame trap us into eating a meaty aerial...i'd say just keep moving and chucking eggs at him. Once you see an opening, rush him down! He's lighter than regular Link so he'll die sooner. I'd say its either 50/50 or a very small advantage to Yoshi.

 

[Jp3]

Tinks projectile spam is pretty annoying to deal with but I think approaching with shield is pretty good. Spam eggs to try to create a favourable situation then run in with shield. You can't really approach from air I'd say.

 

[DragN]

Very true. I often try to approach from the air and get whacked by the boomerang and then a f-air or up-air. Gotta try to close the gap on the ground and then pop him up and begin the aerial assault!

I don't have to much trouble with Tink though. Like most other characters, once we get them into the air, we can really bring the pain!

 

[Lukingordex]

60:40
55:45
50:50
45:55
40:60

what a... unusual opinion you have.

btw, I'd say I disagree with 80% of this, but since it would take years for me to explain everything, I'll just post the MU chart that represents my opinion:

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:

 

[DragN]

what a... unusual opinion you have.

btw, I'd say I disagree with 80% of this, but since it would take years for me to explain everything, I'll just post the MU chart that represents my opinion:

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:

I agree with this more. Though i personally think Rosalina is a -1, Diddy is a -1 and lucario is even

 

[Lukingordex]

Dude you need help about how to use the posting tools properly

 

[DragN]

Sorry.......I'm new to smashboards....