Guide Knitting a Yoshi Chart - MU Portal

[Ben Prochazka]

So: I know im really late on responding because well id rather spend my time on for glory matches

Anyway: Recently everyone ive seen on youtube complain about Diddy Kong and how "good" of a character he is.
But playing one I really dont see how or why. Yeah his combos are good but theyre soooo easy to get out of.

Me for instance, start with eggs, and just dont let up.
Dash attack > Turn Around egg > down b > Over A.

Something like that, or just to where youre constantly running around the place to where they cant grab.

The guy I played did get me into his "Down throw, up air, up air" combo...(whatever therye calling that now) and really yoshi has the ability to do down b which will hit, or if you think that they're still going to hit you ..use a jump and then instantly down B after.

I wanted to save the match to show, but I ran out of space on my SD card.

but another matchup that gives me hell

It would have to be Ness....and Zelda.

Idk whats with those guys OR it could just be Yoshi, but it seems every time I approach I get grabbed.

And Zelda: Getting 2-0ed by one just pretty much makes me wanna stop playing for the night and just go to sleep. Getting killed by her kick I swear I just dont understand how it happens. >.>


**anyway**

I know it was said that there would be separate threads about discussing matchups, but if that happens ill copy and paste this into each separate one.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Maybe it's "easy" to escape wifi Diddy combos, but I assure you the character is rightfully scorned.

 

[Terotrous]

I actually don't think Yoshi is at any particular disadvantage vs Diddy, Diddy is just a super good character in general. Sheik MU is still probably worse.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Hey you qt3.1415926 Dinosaurs, wanna come over and throw some eggs at us help us with our MU thread?

 

[Sinister Slush]

k so prettied up the thread a bit more
Who does everyone wanna discuss?

 

[Delta-cod]

Toon Link (someone recently made a thread asking about him, so why not), Diddy, Sheik, Weegee, Falcon.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Just to make a list if people still don't click the first page when it has all the info these days of course.

Characters currently talking about us.


Threads we made (first two are fairly new)



I'd say we talk about Diddy fox ZSS or Mario. Some of the more popular characters over ones that're never played like Tink the miis etc.
Think we should prolly do 2 everytime but have 2 weeks of discussing, if we finish early or like... 3+ days of no posts from either side then we'll just move on to another.

As for the three talking about us right now we should go to those threads. Only one we both discussed so far is Shulk unless you guys wanna bring it up again in the near future.

 

[Delta-cod]

I tried to discuss with the Kirbies/Wifi so I know even a little about the MU, but they're all cowards!

Also, isn't Peach talking about us?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Delta-cod]

You're right, I mistook the ZSS thread for Peach for some reason.

 

[Sinister Slush]

It's also hard to get discussion going on when nobody posts even when I link it in our skype group our people who open the Yoshi boards to make new threads obviously see the stickies...

These dern kidz dunn read these days ;;

 

[Professor Oats]

I actually don't think Yoshi is at any particular disadvantage vs Diddy, Diddy is just a super good character in general. Sheik MU is still probably worse.

I thought so too, but we had a local recently after a bunch of our top players left for Apex. The decent players who remained were 6 players, a Shulk, 2 Diddies, and 3 Yoshis (myself probably middle of the 3). We ended up with a Yoshi in losers semis, losers finals, and Grand Finals, and the stronger Diddy managed to beat all our Yoshis and take the weekly, in a row. We all play very different, we're all pretty decent at DI'ing out of the infamous "hoo hah", and the Diddy player is around as skilled as our little Yoshi clan. So...I don't know exactly why at this point, but I do feel Diddy wins that matchup. And that would be something fun to analyze in more detail. Also, I wish my scene streamed smash 4 and not just Melee/PM.

k so prettied up the thread a bit more
Who does everyone wanna discuss?

I'd like to discuss Ness, Mario, Luigi, Diddy or Shulk. All decent, mostly common characters.

 

[Terotrous]

I thought so too, but we had a local recently after a bunch of our top players left for Apex. The decent players who remained were 6 players, a Shulk, 2 Diddies, and 3 Yoshis (myself probably middle of the 3). We ended up with a Yoshi in losers semis, losers finals, and Grand Finals, and the stronger Diddy managed to beat all our Yoshis and take the weekly, in a row. We all play very different, we're all pretty decent at DI'ing out of the infamous "hoo hah", and the Diddy player is around as skilled as our little Yoshi clan. So...I don't know exactly why at this point, but I do feel Diddy wins that matchup. And that would be something fun to analyze in more detail. Also, I wish my scene streamed smash 4 and not just Melee/PM.

I don't know if there's much to analyze, Diddy is just a super good character. Just because he doesn't have any particular advantage over Yoshi doesn't mean he doesn't have a slight edge just from the amazing quality of his moveset. I suspect Diddy is +1 or better vs the vast majority of the cast, except those who specifically counter his tools, which are closer to even.

 

[Professor Oats]

Makes sense. I myself was thinking that very few characters have an even or slightly positive matchup against Diddy, my personal suspicions are in favor of Olimar, Luigi, Wario, Charizard, and Sheik, but I don't have too much information to back that up.

Still, I do hate fighting that monkey, though, as the guy who eliminated the other Diddy from the venue, I'm starting to get the matchup down a bit better, though that freaking fair just annoys my Yoshi to no end. Seriously, I'm starting to think that Diddy's fair might be one of the best aerials, period.

 

[~Rainbow Mika]

Okay let's see...
As for Shulk, besides the ******** sword and his obnoxious voice (le epic im rili felin it yimyams), is not that hard to fight him, shield fsmash and dsmash and go for throws, his jab is like Ike's one, so just shield it.
The best thing in Shulk's arsenal is nair, great range and no landing lag, so take your time before going brute.
Some shulks like to use Bair on the corner of the stage (it goes throught the scenario), but is slow, so you can see it coming and go for an upsmash.
Monado arts, i've seen Shulk start with Speed, and goes full berserk (jabs, nair, fair), stay away from him using eggs or use nair/fair (but not trying to pursue him) so he waste time escaping the attack and, thus, losing the speed buff
There's buster or something, i don't know what that does (increase his input damage?), but the thing is the same with speed.
Smash is where things gets a little tough, Shulk's range is stupidly amazing, and after 90%+, they can get easy kills with either Fsmash, Air Slash or Vision, lucky for us, is that he becomes also easier to launch, so my answer here is try to get a grounded yoshi bomb or nair, but when you think it will land, don't get too spammy with this.
Jump is for off-stage as i can see, try to throw eggs at him before he goes on the air when you're launched, if he is already on the air, try to do your best at avoiding him (like air dodge or going far off the stage), i don't know if yoshi's nair has better priority than his fair/nair.
Shield isn't that hard to deal, make as much damage as you can (like dair or grab pummeling) and anything that launch horizontally, since his recovery gets awfully bad, he will be death, upsmash kills him at around 210% when shield powered.
Air Slash in general is like a Shoryuken in SF, so they can use it as a reversal if you're too fair happy, so use with moderation.
Vision is a strong counter, so, if you're for follow-ups (like uair), empty jump and see if he does it or not, and then punish, remember that there's 2 types or vision, the fast & the powerful one, so, don't think it will just whiff all the time.
Backslash is easy to guard & punish, don't get too scared of its power.
Now, there's shulk players that don't use the monado stuff and go just by normals, and they work too, like I sayed, Nair is his best move imo, so space him with eggs, don't shield it or you're gonna get grabbed. Dsmash is another good spacing tool, shield it and roll back and attack him with your best tool (like a running upsmash or grab).

And that's most of my Shulk Knowledge, i can also talk about pit bros., Links, Dedede or Bros. if you wanna, or give my two cents about other chars.

 

[Sinister Slush]

This thread is mostly for discussing what we should talk about next. Don't wanna clutter the portal for the Match ups too much with walls of text, save that for threads made later on.
The Shulk mains and I already talked about it and agreed upon 50:50 for now until the next time everyone redo their discussions.

I'll add up all the votes when I get back from tourney tomorrow. For now.
x2
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x1

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Mario please

 

[Lukingordex]

Diddy Kong.

 

[Regralht]

Ness, I need to stop getting rekt by them ;-;

 

[WritersBlah]

Research on the Diddy matchup is crucial; the chimp IS the meta at this point in the game, and I'd really appreciate how to approach this matchup.

 

[~Rainbow Mika]

Well, if it goes by that, i would go by Luigi. I don't have that much problems with the others (except maybe ness, bthrow is salt inducer).

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Yeah, we might as well get Diddy out of the way. Luigi works too, because I feel like they'll be approached similarly. Until the metagame moves past hoo-hah, it's going to remain an elephant in the room.

 

[chipndip]

There's no need to discuss Mario, imo.

The match-up is largely in Yoshi's favor. FLUDD is not very effective on Yoshi, Yoshi's f-air is just blatantly better, his mobility and damage-racking tools are also overall better while Mario can hardly combo Yoshi to play into his own damage-building tools...there's just not much going full-on in Mario's favor save his b-throw KO option and his stellar u-smash (which is a pretty big deal). Overall, it's not a horrid match-up for Mario because removing Mario from the stage is just as problematic for Yoshi as removing Yoshi from the stage is for Mario, if not more so since Mario can just fish for a solid u-smash while his whole head ignores whatever we decided to do, but the in general neutral aspect of it is in our favor, and Mario naturally has issues returning himself to neutral from a negative situation, while Yoshi has a much easier time doing so. So really, it's simply about making Mario regret ever being picked to begin with. He can't change the tide of the fight well without FLUDD/cape gimps and combos, and Yoshi beats all that out clean. Not much to discuss when there's not many problems to be had.

I have no knowledge about Luigi, and I have nightmares about Diddy. That said, I'd suggest Luigi since I have nothing to go off of for him.

 

[~Rainbow Mika]

Mario isn't a big deal as a lot of people say, yeah he's buffed a lot, but i wouldn't say he's the best.
fireball zoning can be dealt with eggs, fludd is useless, and his BnB doesn't work with Yoshi (except the dthrow>utilt>upb).
The only thing Yoshi should be careful here are Mario's Aerials, they're good and have good priority over Yoshi, Nairs are tough, Dair is pretty good now, Uair is his best move in air and Bair is good for killing.
So, keep him on the ground, grab, toss eggs and dash attack as much as you can.

Luigi is dangerous if isn't played like most FG (spamming cyclone, dash attack & missile)

 

[Forty4]

I'd say either Sheik or Diddy, but Diddy more so.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Figuring out the Diddy matchup is extremely important. Him and Sheik are the two that we're gonna be fighting the most. Gotta do the homework.

 

[~Rainbow Mika]

How about Fox? I think he's interesting to fight and would like advice from here.

 

[Professor Oats]

Almost positive Yoshi beats Fox. I am not that good, and we have 2 Fox players I run into in our weekly bracket a lot, both good players, and I have yet to lose to them. You can intercept forward B with fair with nice timing, and nair/jump out of up-tilt strings, and you can always jump out of his jab loopy thing, Fox's great nair never really gets the most use against Yoshi jumping around, down tilt can dodge lasers if you're feeling playful, down air gimps Fox similar to Pikachu's bair/Wario's dair (hit with part of dair while Fox is flying towards the ledge with his up B, it'll trade and the bit of the dair that does hit will rocket him downwards, free kill). Plus, he drops like a rock when egged offstage. His space coverage with jump-cancelled upsmash/dash attack/running bair is pretty far, so don't whiff much, and enjoy.

I'd say in Yoshi's favor, maybe 6-4, but that's just me. But we'll cross that bridge completely when we come to it, since more people seem concerned with Diddly Kong.

 

[salaboB]

So, Villager: How in the world do you get close to a villager who just spams Lloid rocket at head height while pocketing half the eggs (Negates egg spam pretty effectively) and then slingshots CONSTANTLY when you try to get close? He was even jumping off the edge and bouncing back up from that just to keep up the constant zoning, and I could barely get in.

 

[WritersBlah]

So, Villager: How in the world do you get close to a villager who just spams Lloid rocket at head height while pocketing half the eggs (Negates egg spam pretty effectively) and then slingshots CONSTANTLY when you try to get close? He was even jumping off the edge and bouncing back up from that just to keep up the constant zoning, and I could barely get in.

Don't. The VIllager-Yoshi matchup is pretty annoying, but something I've learned is to not rely too heavily on aggro-ing Villager. Villager has a lot of attacks that out-prioritize ours, so you really need to play the baiting game with Villager. Put up a solid defense with eggs, your shield, and your double jump armor. Switch your approaches between aerials, your DA, and your grabs to keep him on his toes. Remember Lloyd doesn't have a hitbox until about a second or two after he's out, so if you're close enough, you can literally run past him. Your best positioning in this matchup is to have Villager above you, as you can pretty easily shield anything he can throw at you and punish him accordingly. Under no circumstances however, should you ever be ABOVE Villager. His up air turnips beat EVERY attack we have (including Yoshi Bomb) so focus on making it back safely to the ground. Last piece of advice I can give you: respect his tree. If you see him watering a sprout, do not approach him. I can't stress that enough. Focus on draining the tree's HP with aerial eggs, dodge Lloyds and slingshots if the Villager is smart, or punish him if he tries to get close. Just don't get too close to the tree.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I know I said last Thursday I'd make threads so we can start discussing, but Hyrule Warrior's most recent DLC map has had my attention.
Once I finish that, I basically beat the game since most likely no more future DLC adventure maps. So once I beat it in the next two days maybe and most likely after this Thursday for sure, Imma be focusing solely on Smash 4 since literally no other games to play.

So until then put more votes if you guys feel like it.
Should also mention again we'll be tackling two match ups everytime we go through a Wave, so counting votes like "x character + y"

x7
x1
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x1

 

[EarthRyno]

Diddy Kong

 

[WritersBlah]

Well since I already voted, I'm gonna make a crazy vote and ask for advice on the Captain Falcon matchup.

 

[Slice~]

I think Sheik should be discussed extensively.

We will learn the Diddy MU faster than Sheik by just playing the game as there are so many.
In my opinion Sheik has even more potential than Diddy but ain't that famous because she's harder to pick up.

Once you actually face a strong Sheik, you are in real trouble.

 

[Lukingordex]

I think Sheik is -1 for Yoshi.

Yeah, the circunstances kind of make it look like it's a -2, but Sheik has a really strong weakness:

She struggles at killing.

The currently best player in Brazil mains Sheik, and I play against him a lot.

Though he usually begins the match with the advantage, I always tend to recover the disadvantage in the stock by just not dying.

Basically, Sheik is better than us in neutral and in long range, which is a big deal, but if we abuse that weakness, I think we may give some trouble for her.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Yoshi-hara]

I think Sheik is -1 for Yoshi.

Yeah, the circunstances kind of make it look like it's a -2, but Sheik has a really strong weakness:

She struggles at killing.

The currently best player in Brazil mains Sheik, and I play against him a lot.

Though he usually beings the match with the advantage, I always tend to recover the disadvantage in the stock by just not dying.

Basically, Sheik is better than us in neutral and in long range, which is a big deal, but if we abuse that weakness, I think we may give some trouble for her.

Just my 2 cents

Who is this player?
Also, if the Shiek matchup is really -1, then I'll be really surprised if he isn't top tier - top high tier. If the little Dino's hardest matchup is only -1 then he's probably in the top 4. (I wonder how long will it take for Slush to come and write a 30+ line wall of text about why Yoshi isn't top tier again *rolls eyes*).

 

[Lukingordex]

huh but Yoshi definitely isn't top tier in this game.

he's overrated, I agree with slush.

 

[Yoshi-hara]

huh but Yoshi definitely isn't top tier in this game.

he's overrated, I agree with slush.

Funny you saying that even though you posted a tier list with him on top tier a while ago in our Facebook group.
Jokes aside, I know that's outdated, but I truly believe Yoshi is high-high tier or even top tier, especially considering he has many ways to deal with challengers. From egg spam to rushdown with dash attacks, to drilling people offstage with dair, Egg Laying them out of the stage, to fairing them either instage to stun enemies or offstage to spike them. He also does well against nearly anyone not called Shiek, Diddy, or Sanic.

Also, I really dont understand people calling overrated even though no one ever talks about him other than Yoshi players or salty people who lose to him.

 

[Lukingordex]

Funny you saying that even though you posted a tier list with him on top tier a while ago in our Facebook group. .

Are you talking about this? https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd...._=1435800037_eddf945506d40b4ffa95474211650d28

 

[Yoshi-hara]

Are you talking about this? https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd...._=1435800037_eddf945506d40b4ffa95474211650d28

Nope. It's a serious tier list you made.
This one is funny, tho. Keep the link.