Guide Knitting a Yoshi Chart - MU Portal

[Sinister Slush]

(Click Image Above)​

This will be our Matchup index thread that links to discussions from either our boards or other character boards.

Spoiler: Completed(ish) Discussions/MU Table

For now, the table will show mostly blanks, the last patch (possibly) has happened and the addition of changes/DLC characters has come to an end. So it's time get to the slow process of doing our MU chart.
Scratch that, new patch happened... The End isn't near.

Left side Ratios will be Yoshi, right will be the enemies.
If there's only one ratio, that means the character boards reached their own conclusion for the MU without the help of the Yoshi boards or vice versa.

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Spoiler: Characters we or other Character Boards are discussing

Some of these haven't had posts in months, will revive once we start discussion for them.

Threads with current discussion
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Threads made by us


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-bayonetta.430080/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-bowser.374417/


http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-mu-issues-bowser-jr.380803/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-cloud.429168/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-corrin.430414/


http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-discussion-diddy-kong.391471/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-duck-hunt-duo.374419/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-vs-fox.385308/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-greninja.413828/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-ike.415532/


http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-vs-little-mac.376847/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-link-aka-how-the-hero-of-time-slayed-the-dragon.399380/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-luigi.402846/

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http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-thread-vs-lucina-maybe-marth.374474/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-yoshi-vs-mega-man.374468/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-help-meta-knight.398139/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-mewtwo.399281/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-ness.404741/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-pikachu.412414/

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http://smashboards.com/threads/pit-and-dark-pit-matchup.413500/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-sheik.374421/


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-sonic.396456/


http://smashboards.com/threads/toon-link-match-up.389069


http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-villager.413893/

Spoiler: Enemy MU Threads

Click on heads to be directed to their threads




Discussion about Yoshi on Page 6










No Matchup Thread


Discussion about Yoshi starts on page 11














Discussion about Yoshi on Page 3


Discussions about Yoshi on Pages 5 and 6


























Discussion about Yoshi on Page 3


Discussions about Yoshi on Pages 2-5






No MU thread


No MU thread










Discussions about Yoshi on Pages 2, 4, 8, and 9






Same as Dark Pit






Discussions about Yoshi on Pages 1-3






Discussion about Yoshi on Page 1










Discussions about Yoshi on Pages 4 and 6

Pitch ideas on what you guys wanna talk about next. It's gonna be hell if you guys don't wanna like the Brawl days.

 

[Terotrous]

Greninja's a bit of a tricky one, simply because his Dair beats Yoshi's Uair, which forces you to respect him when he's above you. Dair is very punishable on whiff, however, so make sure to use your best punish (which will be Utilt at lower percents, Egg Lay at moderate percents, grounded Down B at kill percent) to discourage him from using it recklessly. Once it's in his head that you're going to punish, you can start chasing him into the air with eggs and such, just mix it up between air dodging and attacking so he feels scared to commit to the Dair (if he whiffs a dair through your air dodge, follow up with Down B / Dair / Egg Lay as appropriate).

Outside of Dair, his moveset actually isn't all that different from Yoshi's, he's generally pretty fast and safe and has solid pokes and a ranged grab. Your projectile is much safer than his, so don't be afraid to use short hop Eggs to pressure him, especially if he gets any silly ideas about tossing Shurikens. Watch out for that Shadow Move, though, if you see that coming you shouldn't commit to anything until he reappears.

In general, you want to force him to come to you, as Yoshi can generally output more damage than he can up close and kills much earlier. Short hop Dair is absurdly damaging if you can catch him running, and spot dodge Down B will seal the stock around 100%, otherwise challenge with jabs and tilts as usual against most characters. If he catches you in any combo, mash jump to get out, Yoshi's armored double jump will allow you to escape pretty much anything and he's not particularly dangerous when he's below you. His counter also isn't very good and you don't really have to respect it.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Not gonna lie we should probably use a different thread with someone more active since he might not be around to update the OP.

Greninja's a bit of a tricky one, simply because his Dair beats Yoshi's Uair, which forces you to respect him when he's above you.

Don't respect that man because of dair lmao. Double Jump Counter it. If he touches your doublejump, he lingers there for a while, and you're free to upair him. It is literally the easiest move to counter with double jump. I've done it at some pretty high percents too, but I can't really test it to confirm. I also do think if we upair him as he's dairing we trade anyway, but I could be wrong about that.

Watch out for that Shadow Move, though, if you see that coming you shouldn't commit to anything until he reappears.

If you honestly see it happening, Sh egg at where he currently is, but keep yourself slightly out of shadow range. If you aim the egg right, he can either take the egg, or appear and take a quick punish for that.

In general, you want to force him to come to you, as Yoshi can generally output more damage than he can up close and kills much earlier. Short hop Dair is absurdly damaging if you can catch him running, and spot dodge Down B will seal the stock around 100%, otherwise challenge with jabs and tilts as usual against most characters. If he catches you in any combo, mash jump to get out, Yoshi's armored double jump will allow you to escape pretty much anything and he's not particularly dangerous when he's below you. His counter also isn't very good and you don't really have to respect it.

And I've actually played some pretty good Greninjas I'd think, and I will say right now, do not try to challenge his Upsmash while you're in the air. Don't waste your time. Your aerials get out ranged, down b will get stuffed (you'll literally land on the sweet spot and probably die early) And it outranges egglay. Literally if he's charging it while you're falling it's unpunishable just land at neutral.

Like you're kinda right imo, he isn't really that scary while under you, you just don't challenge this move when he is.

 

[Terotrous]

Double Jump Counter it. If he touches your doublejump, he lingers there for a while, and you're free to upair him.

That's an interesting idea. I wasn't confident enough about Double Jump's armor going through it to try it, but if it does that's a great tool to use against him.

And I've actually played some pretty good Greninjas I'd think, and I will say right now, do not try to challenge his Upsmash while you're in the air.

This is good Yoshi advice in general. Dair is really strong, but its hitbox isn't that advantageous. Down B is a little better, but disjoints still beat it, and it can be whiff punished. You usually shouldn't come down right on top of someone, use Up B's hop to get some aerial mobility and escape to the side.

Anyway, I was talking more about him chasing you to the air when you're high up.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Oh yeaah i know thats what you meant but i was just talking that one move lol. You just can't punish it while they're charging it. Just throwing it out there since i dont want yoshis getting baited near kill percents. There are a lot of upsmashes that a down b seems to just beat out in general so if someone charges one i can see the urge

 

[jeck95]

Greninja is an interesting match up i need to play more. But from the greninjas i played against, the matchup can be done.
1) Either armor greninja's nair or make it whiff. His dair is safe on block but on whiff it is pretty punishable.
2) NEVER challenge greninja's upsmash. Just block or avoid it then punish.
3) Greninja can jump high so watch out when recovering high or jumping high. Try to recover to the edge more against greninja because if they space properly, you will get hunted in the air.
4) Greninja's grab is slow. Abuse it. Nair + Jab pressure should do.
5) Pay attention to the floor for greninja's side b. That side b is not safe but it can catch you off guard.
6) Yoshi can camp greninja better than vice versa.
Outside these points; space properly and play smart.

 

[Galufeta]

I would like to know if you guys have any problems dealing with Mario and/or Dr. Mario, because in my experience at FG I would say those two are the ones that consistently beat me or just give me a hard time, although I haven't really practiced much against CPs because they are way too easy to gimp. The issues I find is that both of them are strong, their attacks seem to have less lagging time than Yoshi's (I don't know for sure), their roll is way too quick...and the fireball/vitamins spam can get annoying with some players.
If anyone who plays Mario would like to train with me tell me and I'll share my FC.

 

[Shiri]

Some pointers for the Mario matchup (I haven't played against good Doctor Marios yet, so I don't know how different it is off the top of my head).

- Mario is quite weak in this game. Even if he combos you (he can't most of the time), if you relax and look at your damage, you'll see whatever combos he does have do relatively low damage. Yoshi outdamages Mario by a fair bit in this game so if you can keep up hit for hit, you should win over time by attrition.

- To deal with fireballs, simply attack them. Jabs, dash attack and tilts all destroy them. I think neutral air does as well; I'm having trouble remembering if you can advance through fireballs with neutral air (you should be able to), but I don't have my DS here with me to test. If you want to play a more avoidance-based game, you can short hop and Egg Toss over fireballs.

- Cape still plays a role in this matchup. I hear the cape customs are really good, but I haven't played against them yet. Be careful of telegraphing your tactics; cape seems very risk-averse and it has usually been this way in the matchup.

- Mario might be quick but he is small and has tiny limbs, so use your mobility to get out of the way. Don't block if you don't have to; move. Yoshi outranges Mario by a mile and as long as you don't spend your double jump unwisely, you should be able to stay hard to hit.

Mario used to get away with playing very aggressively in this matchup but I think for this game, he needs to be on the defensive. His good speed and short range seem to push him to the more defensive end of things, so I can see a good Mario being one that has good patience and good punishes. Don't rush in, play patiently and don't get frustrated. This has always been a bad matchup and even though Yoshi is a bit better (and Mario a bit worse), you should still approach the matchup very carefully.

 

[Galufeta]

Yes, those that have beat me really bad were very defensive and I see that working good against my pressure, I guess I do need to work more on the mind games and staying relaxed. However, the best pointer from your post is something I haven't thought about my game which is double jumping without a plan, I usually do that after doing a KO and get punished half the time. Thanks man

 

[L@ST_Dinosaur]

Since character variety in "For Glory" is so little, The only characters I've struggled with are:
It might just be me, but I feel like these characters just have tools against Yoshi, such as Mario's cape and etc. Otherwise characters like Ness I feel like I can never get a hold of.

 

[chipndip]

Since character variety in "For Glory" is so little, The only characters I've struggled with are:
It might just be me, but I feel like these characters just have tools against Yoshi, such as Mario's cape and etc. Otherwise characters like Ness I feel like I can never get a hold of.

Yoshi can actually beat Diddy by short jump Egg Throw-ing him a crap ton. You can't trip if you aren't on the ground.

Yoshi also beats the Marios. Not by a long shot, but I feel like his eggs matches Marios fireballs/pills, and he can possibly meteor smash Mario through his projectiles with pro timing. Main issue is attacking head on from the air. Mario has a better anti-air game than Yoshi...or most other characters. Be extremely wary of his u-smash.

Ness...it's not a bad match-up, but it's not a fun one either. Just pile on the aerial Egg Throws and avoid PK Fire at all costs.

 

[Nikes]

Practically every matchup that we're unsure of so far just goes "short hop egg throws until you can get in" 0_o

 

[RoZu]

Hey guys, i'm from Chile and i've been playing yoshi since N64, and now i'm curious about the yoshi vs sonic matchup... i've been having lots of problems with those blue guys... Egg toss is just too slow, egg bomb as well. Egg lay needs a perfect timming, egg roll might be counter-grabbed... and with normal attacks i'm having the same problems, sometimes it seems i depend on my shield and then trying to react but that puts my skills to the test since timming and reaction is what i need most...

So, any tips? I tried every attack and it seems not-so-perfectly-timed Nair can do some trade damage with knock back for both players, and perfect-timed Dair can also cover some things. Bair it's just too slow and Uair might be reserved as a kill move since sonic dies at 80-90% with that...

Based on the battles i've had with sonics i'd say the matchup is somewhere between 40:60 and 50:50 (on sonic's favor)

PS: I forgot, the sonics use their Side-B to charge-attack and then follow up with a combo, and then they repeat the process.

 

[Nikes]

Haven't had very much experience myself against Sonics so far, those only being For Glory side B combo spammers but I'll do my best.

Sometimes I fox-trot toward them then dash away and pivot grab their dash attack or side B, otherwise I either go for Nairs or Fairs or just shield their side B rather than challenge it since they'll just go for the Uair at the end of it even if you're not there lol. From there, just punish however you see fit.
Learning your B-reverses and landing them can help since egg lay brings him to a stand-still if you can catch him, and it takes care of our getting shield grabbed when trying to approach problem. Other than that, make use of your own mobility and our awesome dash attack the best you can. If only we had Brawl Bair then it'd be easier to just wall him out with it :s

 

[RoZu]

It's pretty stressing haha, I know my B-reversals pretty well... and you're right, they end up just above yoshi's head when they reach the shield, but that also needs a nice reaction...

Can replays be sent?, idk...

 

[Nikes]

I haven't found any ways to share replays, even just from one local SD card to another :/ Pretty sad for an important feature like that to be absent, maybe we'll see something in the future.

 

[chipndip]

Practically every matchup that we're unsure of so far just goes "short hop egg throws until you can get in" 0_o

Because it's a staple option every Yoshi main should be doing on impulse by now. If you got some space, throw eggs and see if you can command the match or not. If you can, use less eggs and rush them down. If you can't for the time being, keep your egg shield strong, your legs nimble, and your eggs flying until you can catch a KO.

 

[RoZu]

i know what can i do then... i'll upload every replay i have for matches against sonic to my dropbox and share them to you... i think we could figure out sonic's matchup from there...

but as for control, i've encountered problems against sheik, rosalina and sonic... all other coverages are more suitable for yoshi

 

[Warlockkobra]

How do you guys play against Diddy Kong?
Lately I've just had problems against good Greninjas and Diddy Kong in general.
Most Diddys I play, prevent to get hit by my eggs and keep waiting until i hit the ground to attack me with nanners or side-b. Since i don't know which one it's going to be, I spotdodge, which is easy to counter.

If i get grabbed I try to DI/VI away form him to prevent getting hit by up/back/forward air but my landing is getting punished afterwards.

What are your tactics against Diddy-players?

 

[chipndip]

How do you guys play against Diddy Kong?
Lately I've just had problems against good Greninjas and Diddy Kong in general.
Most Diddys I play, prevent to get hit by my eggs and keep waiting until i hit the ground to attack me with nanners or side-b. Since i don't know which one it's going to be, I spotdodge, which is easy to counter.

If i get grabbed I try to DI/VI away form him to prevent getting hit by up/back/forward air but my landing is getting punished afterwards.

What are your tactics against Diddy-players?

Get better at short-hop Egg Throws.

Seriously, this is my main approach to almost any bad/even match-up. You can't trip if you aren't on the ground to get tripped. Just attempt to follow-up one of the eggs by moving in its arc, and make sure you are only jumping high enough to throw ONE egg per jump. You don't need every single egg to hit. Just keep throwing them. Also, be careful about getting punished on your dash attack. Might be favorable to just pass through them on it rather than meaty it to follow it up. Depends on if you're punishing or just checking for possible damage.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Diddy feels really text book. I think it's about even. In brawl i thought this was even because he had really high damage output and kill setups, but we had a chain grab near on par banana game and we lived forever if we played safe. Now we lost what we had against each other and became more stable all around characters.

Just learn his moveset and play as textbook as possible.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

There should never be a match up where someone isn't short hop egg throwing aside from maybe playing Zelda. It creates space and makes opponents feel pressured to have to rush you in which case Yoshi can out combat MOST characters in the game. When they get frustrated is when you start egg laying because they'll instinctively start to block after they approach, trap them in an egg and beat the crap out of them. Yoshi is generally dangerous everywhere in this game. Also Fair is a phenomenal approach option especially because if you time it right you can pull back on the stick and back away before you hit the ground giving space between you an the opponent. That's general tactics I use. Works against Diddys Mario's etc.



Sonic is all about patience let him come to you hard block his rolls and then punish after he whiffs. Also neutral B can grab Sonic in ANY roll when times correctly if your fast with it you can grab him. Get Sonic in the air he's booty up there and just Uair him into space

 

[Lukingordex]

rosalina

Yoshi does a lot of damage to Luma, be defensive and throw eggs at it. If Rosalina is far from luma that's your chance to either kill it with a dair or approach Rosalina with yoshi's incredible speed.

Watch out for Rosalina's aerials, especially Nair which has a very weird hitbox duration and is a useful defensive tool for her.
When you approach, it's your chance to give her A LOT of damage with Utilt -> stuff or a Dair due to her weird fall speed and size.

She's also very light meaning you can kill her kinda early while also being able to give damage quickly, keep it in mind.

Bonus: Nair, Fair and Bair are very good against her Up B.

 

[Nikes]

Good stuff Lukinhasss.^ Continuing on from this, intercepting her recovery with a run-off Bair for a stage spike is very effective, we can do this against most characters actually and get an early kill by following it up with a footstool. It's better to go for this since her recovery goes far so we can't really just keep her away from the stage like we can with other characters.
Regarding Luma, we don't need to worry about trying to hit it hard with Dair since dash attack and Bair knock it helplessly offstage.

 

[RoZu]

Nice tips guys...
All right I've been stuying a lot the MU between Yoshi and Lucario... so I did my best to get some data. 3 sets of 10 matches, Yoshi vs Lucario on starter stages. So the first set was 60% WR for Yoshi, second 80% and 3rd 70%. Mean 70:30. The matches were done against the best lucario in Chile. Of course it was calculated for a Chilean metagame, so you may think 70:30 may be actually 60:40 or something like that... but getting some data is always usefull.

I haven't worked with the goodness of fit tests, I think someone else should also calculate the MU for Lucario/Yoshi and corroborate if this thing was good...

I'll try to do the same for Link/Yoshi MU

 

[Lukingordex]

I don't know were it was posted in the yoshi boards, but I remember a post of someone saying Villager was a bad matchup for Yoshi.

I played the MU in both sides, and I actually think it's the opposite, Yoshi's air speed and eggs are really useful to approach Villager and his bucket isn't very useful when it come to yoshi's eggs since when Villager throws it, it goes in a really weird and not very useful direction.

Villager's camp options, such as Bair, Fair, loiyd rockets and trees aren't as useful against Yoshi as it tends to be against others characters in the game, simply because both Yoshi's ground and air game are really fast.

Honestly, I felt like all I could do was hope the Yoshi player didn't know the matchup and punish his errors. In the other side, when I was Yoshi, I could approach easily in most situations, all I needed to do was play the matchup correctly.

 

[chipndip]

I don't know were it was posted in the yoshi boards, but I remember a post of someone saying Villager was a bad matchup for Yoshi.

I played the MU in both sides, and I actually think it's the opposite, Yoshi's air speed and eggs are really useful to approach Villager and his bucket isn't very useful when it come to yoshi's eggs since when Villager throws it, it goes in a really weird and not very useful direction.

Villager's camp options, such as Bair, Fair, loiyd rockets and trees aren't as useful against Yoshi as it tends to be against others characters in the game, simply because both Yoshi's ground and air game are really fast.

Honestly, I felt like all I could do was hope the Yoshi player didn't know the matchup and punish his errors. In the other side, when I was Yoshi, I could approach easily in most situations, all I needed to do was play the matchup correctly.

You're overstating a bit, but the general idea is in tact. Then again, Villager sucks at approaching anything, anyways, so that's on him. Mainly, you want to camp with Villager and throw up your strong hit-boxes until he trips on one. Especially the tree or triple turnips. The thing is that as much as Yoshi can approach from a ton of angles, Villager can camp in a ton of situations. Whoever trips up first is gonna lose. That's my experience with the match-up.

 

[Nikes]

Usmash destroys Lloid rockets without giving us a single scratch if it's of any interest to anyone, gets rid of it faster than waiting in shield.

 

[Sinister Slush]

While spectating (twitch) is a horrible way to put opinions on, I will say the more I watch tournament matches of high leveled players using of course Top 5 characters like Rosalina etc. The more I think Yoshi can do well against them but prolly have problems with lower tier characters.

Which is the nature of Yoshi in Brawl too kinda, a quarter or maybe even half high/top tiers he did decent against, but struggled against low/mid tier characters. Difference this time is he's the Top tier now and I honestly think he can handle Sheik Rosalina (the big two everyone is overreacting over) but have a problem against somebody like say Diddy Robin or Ness.

 

[Lukingordex]

But Diddy is still very good in this game.

Not sure about Robin since I didn't play this match up many times, but I feel like Yoshi has the advantage, same for Ness.

 

[Z-Bone]

I find good Marth/Lucina players difficult to overcome. The long, fast sword swipes can keep Yoshi at bay, and Counter can become a nightmare if you put too much pressure on.

 

[Yoshi-hara]

Can someone help me with the C. Falcon matchup? He moves faster than Yoshi, and any attacks I attempt get horribly punished. My main strategy is tossing eggs at him then juggle him with dash attack + Uairs, but even then they manage to beat me.

 

[Shiri]

Can someone help me with the C. Falcon matchup? He moves faster than Yoshi, and any attacks I attempt get horribly punished. My main strategy is tossing eggs at him then juggle him with dash attack + Uairs, but even then they manage to beat me.

Spoiler: stuff

Hmmm. Maybe you should wait before attacking instead of trying to press forward? A general rule of thumb for matchups that you don't know or are bad at is to hang back and let the other player commit first. If Falcon is faster than you and punishing you, just hang back and get the life lead with eggs while watching the other player's movements and seeing what they're trying to do. You should be taking this time while egging to think of what Falcon will do when he closes the distance (he will eventually) and what you will do about it; don't make the mistake of saying, "He will definitely do this," because you will get tunnel vision and are more susceptible to "randomness" or variety in strategy from the other player...instead say, "He can do this, that and the other when he closes in...based on his patterns or style, which is more likely?" From there, instead of queuing up responses to an attack pattern that the opponent hasn't committed to yet, just be on the lookout and react to what the opponent does. This reduces your likelihood of getting surprised and expands the options you make available to yourself mentally.

Specifically against Falcon, you have to note his strengths and strategies that he's likely to employ. Let's construct a very basic gameplan for Falcon (he has a few, but let's make a super simple one). His dash is great, his neutral air is good, his up air is okay but his dash attack is not that great. With that, we can have Falcon can use his good dash to get great dash grabs which lead into his good aerials. Knees are not a dominant strategy, especially in the early game. If we're playing Falcon with this gameplan against a Yoshi, we want to rinse this strategy as hard as possible. We'll have to run through some eggs, but the dash is fast enough to get under anything but predictive eggs. From there, we'd probably use some shieldgrabs or jabs once in very close range and eventually get something that will lead to up or neutral air. After that, we'll observe Yoshi trying to get back to the stage and either force the double jump as early as we can or try to stuff jump-less recovery attempts. This is a super basic gameplan for Falcon that we can think up.

So, what do you do against this? The first thing you have to be able to do is to find out what the opponent wants. At a general level they want to win, which is obvious, but at more specific levels, their strategies may not be so telling. You need to find out what they want and deny them that thing. Looking back at Falcon, he isn't a low percent combo monster in this game, so he has to find ways to rack up damage that lead to his really good moves and that let him get the most of his mobility (his aerials). While maybe not every Falcon uses this strategy and you can't always know exactly what the other person wants, you have to examine the player, the matchup (sometimes the stage) and guess at what is likely to be their goal. Let's say that you've figured out that a Falcon you're playing against runs the strategy we devised above. The endgame for the plan is using his great aerials to do damage and push you off the stage, but he only gets those in very specific ways; either you were already in the air and he tagged you or he grabbed you or hit you with dash attack. Since dash attack is not that great and getting hit is something you should be avoiding anyway, what you would really want to do to choke up the basic gameplan we thought up is to deny the dash grab. Make him have to reach into another toolbox and force him to think up a different gameplan or at least make him work to find an alternate way to execute the gameplan he wants right now.

Does this mean run away and throw eggs all day? Not necessarily. What it does mean is that you use eggs and the mobility from air eggs to make your opponent commit first. If you can successfully disrupt their gameplan, whatever it may be, then they have to start taking risks. This is where you can go ham if you want. You can basically keep your guard up and wait for the opponent to hang themselves on a huge gamble. That being said, this isn't as easy as it sounds, right--this requires your opponent to not have a super safe braindead strategy on deck for them to fall back on and it requires you to not get caught by whatever they decide to gamble on, should they choose to do so. You'll also find that some opponents won't take the big risk; that's okay, because you shouldn't either! If you're winning, then keep on winning. If you're winning and they won't take risks to stop that, then the only person who can stop you from winning is yourself. Sometimes opponents will not adapt to their strategies being disrupted and will continue to employ them; this is important because you need to able to not make their decision for them. Don't assume because you stopped their strategy once or twice that they will change gears. Let them prove to you that they've decided to commit to something else and then react to that. Getting ahead of yourself with predictive play can work to your disadvantage very quickly when you don't have the facts.

For stuff specifically against Falcon, he has better aerials and more speed, so you do want him to commit first. At low percents, you want to tag his short hops with up tilt juggles and you want to check his ground game with Egg Lay and jabs. His tilts are quick sans up tilt, but he gives up pressure once you block them, so make sure to jump out of shield with an appropriate option (pressure or punish or retreat, etc.). You want to force him off the stage as soon as possible and abuse his recovery. On stage when you've taken damage, you want to watch out for the ranges on Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost. Just force him off as soon as you can and make him waste percent trying to get back. If he's on stage at higher percents, his motions obviously carry more risk than normal, so play into that and try to get the other player to essentially KO themselves with bad decisions.

 

[Lukingordex]

Camp C. Falcon with eggs and wait the approach. When he does, punish him hardly.

Good options for punishing him are Dair Oos, Nair Oos, Fair, grabs, etc. Sometimes you can send falcon into the air where you can juggle him a little.

Yoshi is very good at gimping Falcon, Nair, Fair and eggs are very good tools for this.

You can ocassionaly approach with moves like Dash Attack, Dash Grab and Fair, just don't rely in it too much.

When recovering, watch out for Falcon's Utilt. Some Falcon's may try to use a mindgame of jumping, making you think he'll try to Uair/Dair you, land on the ledge and Utilt after this, which will get you if you try to go the ledge after an airdodge because you though Falcon was going to uair you.

 

[mangoppr]

Hi I'm a yoshi main. Here's what I've found

Weakness:
Spam
Down b punishments
Mind games
Good players
Samus
Mega man
Priority moves

Strengths:
Range
Air mobilty
Shield egg throw(personal preference)
Short hop egg lay/egg throw
Aerial appoach egg lay if their blocking then follow up
double up smash or down b if u feel it
Yoshi can out space any non spammer without shield or rolling
Avoid shield if u can
Jabs and nair should be spammed
They always lead to a combo
Reverse egg throws work
Jab down b
Dash fake down b hahah
Double up smash forward smash

*Dash attack up till nair upair upair egg egg :0

 

[~Rainbow Mika]

So my main problems are:

-Sonic (i really hate some sonic players, those who only grabs you or spin all day are annoying and not fun)

- R.O.B (this thing is hard for me to attack, those aerials always gets me and that usmash always caughts me, not so much about Gyro or Beam)

- Spamus (missilemissilegrabuair/fairmissilemissilechargeshotlol)

- Lucario (i know how to deal with him, but i still hate the aura+rage bonus)

- Good Links (those who can space well with boomerang & arrows and are good on reacts with nair/bair)

- Bowser (goddamn bowsercide spammers)

I would say also Fox, but i'm not sure.

 

[Shiri]

That's good; those should be your main problems.

Sonic and Lucario, especially. I hate Sonic players too (the actual players) and Lucario is giving furries a completely unwarranted ego boost. These two characters are very easy, very braindead and very good. They play the game so well and I can only see them getting better as time goes on and more complex strategies with them arise.

Samus is interesting in this game; she's still not very good, but she seems to still have the things that make her matchup with Yoshi good for her. This is still tough on a fundamental level for Yoshi, so no getting around it other than playing the matchup well and generally being a better or smarter player.

Bowsercides should not be an issue for you if you have the damage lead. If you're losing in damage and get Bowsercided anyway, then consider that part of the risk of being behind at any point in this particular race. Your goal in the Bowser matchup is to always be ahead in damage without taking crazy stupid risks to do so. Think of it like the movie Speed; you'll get blown up if you can't keep up and if you go too fast.

Link is just a super solid character in this game, so maybe he's exposing some flaws in your fundamentals game (avoiding/destroying projectiles, approaching safely, adjusting your spacing, etc.). ROB was a tough matchup for me in Brawl mostly because I was playing very stubbornly in that game (dark times), but it seems to me like you're probably challenging ROB in his ranges more than you should. Actually, in both of these matchups, you're probably using a jump offense much much more than you should.

 

[Sinister Slush]

It's insanely weird or just coincidence that most of what I've said about Yoshi in Smash4 it becomes a thing. (SHET lol.... short hop egg toss, Lucario Sonic annoying MUs exception being no diddy mentioned, etc.)

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

While spectating (twitch) is a horrible way to put opinions on, I will say the more I watch tournament matches of high leveled players using of course Top 5 characters like Rosalina etc. The more I think Yoshi can do well against them but prolly have problems with lower tier characters.

Which is the nature of Yoshi in Brawl too kinda, a quarter or maybe even half high/top tiers he did decent against, but struggled against low/mid tier characters. Difference this time is he's the Top tier now and I honestly think he can handle Sheik Rosalina (the big two everyone is overreacting over) but have a problem against somebody like say Diddy Robin or Ness.

I play a little bit of robin and I don't feel a single solitary thing in robins kit that would give yoshi even a little bit or trouble. We hard body her close range, she doesn't have much by the way of landing options against us, and honestly her projectile game isn't very intimidating to us. I'm sure its not a free matchup but its not going to be a problem.

NOW FALCON. THAT MAN HAS THE TOOLS NEEDED. I use falcon megaman and lucina in equal amounts right below yoshi, and falcon Feels like he has everything he needs to play the matchup. He has the speed needed to play keep away with us, he can juggle us for days, he can punish hard blah blah blah.

I might not ever be able to say that we beat falcon, but its still up in the air to me on if falcon beats us. Feels like a skill matchup.

EDIT: Omg ness lmao. Its even and very annoying. I feel like when playing against ness both players are behind their screens like "**** this character and everything it stands for"

 

[Sinister Slush]

I mean seeing robin play yeah he/she is incredibly slow and such. But that Uair and thoron.
But either way unless the Robin is nairo levels of good, we won't have a problem with him/her yeah.

Edit: On the case with Falcon, we always had problems with him even in brawl. Polt vs Ally comes to mind back from WHOBO 3.