Kirby's Warp Star Adventure: Kirby's Stage Discussion *Meta Knight Talk*

[Shuzaku]

IMO is neither bad nor good, its neutral =D. if you feel you are a better player than the gw then take him here or other stages you think is neutral to both.

 

[Lovely]

I'm guessing the G&W talk is done, next character please. ^_^

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'll change the topic later on today, since it's 2 am in the morning right now, I might make too many mistakes on the second post, as soon as I login later on, I'll update the character talk and talk about another character. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

I'm pretty sure I've been keyed as Kirby through the BF platforms... (not crouching)

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Photobucket ***** my image to hell, so while I re-upload all the lost images, you guys start the next character talk. So far we are talking about Snake now, what stage to counter pick, stage strike, or banned. ☆

Character Talk #2 Snake

Counter Pick Against: ?

Stage Strike: ?

Banned: ?​

 

[fromundaman]

So far, FD and YI have served me well vs Snake. Don't EVER go BF or SV against him.

As for CP, Norfair is supposed to be good, though I personally prefer Pictochat, Japes, and PS1.

 

[RoflWafflez]

i actually love going to BF with a Snake, and i hate FD against them...Norfair works wonders and so does Japes with that huge vertical blastzone. Maybe im just good at avoiding mines and stuff on platforms and u-tilts and such. Iono. It hasn't failed me yet.

 

[A1lion835]

Edit: Ignore this.

 

[Lord Viper]

So far, FD and YI have served me well vs Snake. Don't EVER go BF or SV against him.

As for CP, Norfair is supposed to be good, though I personally prefer Pictochat, Japes, and PS1.

☆ Sounds like what I had in mind. I'll try Norfair and see if it's a good Counter Pick for Snake. Wow, it looks like we have to stage strike a lot of stages for Snake, lol. ☆

i actually love going to BF with a Snake, and i hate FD against them...Norfair works wonders and so does Japes with that huge vertical blastzone. Maybe im just good at avoiding mines and stuff on platforms and u-tilts and such. Iono. It hasn't failed me yet.

☆ Strange, I find Battlefield a ***** when Brawling Snake, maybe I'm not use to this stage, (then again, my win percent on Battlefield is less than 62%). Norfair I will try to play a Snake main on, though I hate to play on this stage. ☆

 

[Percon]

FD vs Snake makes me want to commit suicide. Seriously, don't do it. It's my first strike most of the time and it's sometimes also my ban.

(Oh yeah I like to CP pictochat, though that's probably personal preference)

From best to worst (neutrals) VS him:

Yoshi's Island - My favorite stage overall, but I think it's easier to bait snake into stuff here. Also, his C4 recovery/teching will be more linear and dangerous for him. Platform is awesome for trapping him. You get hammers sometimes if done right.

Battlefield - You can trap him on the platforms a lot, which, again, is good. Mortars will land on above platforms and won't hit you on the way down, which is a godsend.

Lylat - good like battlefield in many ways, but it's hard for me to see C4 and grenades here, so personally not so good for me.

Smashville - Platform is way more likely to help him than you.

FD - Ooh look at me I'm snake I have grenades and mortars and I like to blow things up because I can getin and aut of tight sittuations easiyl and haha you an'ta youjgh me a ahahah.,.,mad jghadbfjks

 

[jiovanni007]

I personally love BF against Snake too. I like YI the best though BF does have the constant high platform to get an uthrow kill on if you have trouble killing in conventional methods whereas you have to wait for the tilt on YI. Its also possible to bair wall hit -> dair -> FS if u get lucky. As far as CPs go I really like PS1 and RC. PS1 because the transformations really interfere with grenade game, just be wary of C4 and mines. It allows me to control the pace of the match and play more defensively. RC makes mine and C4 less of a threat and on some parts he's more concerned about moving around than fighting.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ So far we have to Ban Brinstar, and Final Destination since Snake does very well on those stages, and Stage Strike Final Destination and Smashville. So far our Counter Picks is Rainbow Cruise, (though near everyone wants to ban this stage when they Play Kirby except for a few characters that do well here), Luigi’s Mansion, Jungle Japes, and Lylat Cruise. What do you guys think of taken Snake to Pokémon Stadium? I have no trouble handling Snake there, but what do you guys think? ☆

 

[Percon]

I'd say Snake is pretty good there, though if he's unfamilliar with it you could probably surprise him with some stuff, such as uthrow on the mine area, the roll traps, the windmill or a jab lock on a wall.

The edges don't really bother him though.

 

[jiovanni007]

☆ So far we have to Ban Brinstar, and Final Destination since Snake does very well on those stages, and Stage Strike Final Destination and Smashville. So far our Counter Picks is Rainbow Cruise, (though near everyone wants to ban this stage when they Play Kirby except for a few characters that do well here), Luigi’s Mansion, Jungle Japes, and Lylat Cruise. What do you guys think of taken Snake to Pokémon Stadium? I have no trouble handling Snake there, but what do you guys think? ☆

Yeah like I said before I usually go PS1 if they ban RC since the transformations hinder his mobility and nading. RC is way too easy though. My strategy to mindgame them is after a loss immediately switch ur token to random and then ask to look at the stages while trying to stay on the Brawl levels ask for what they want to ban. Basically outta sight outta mind and they're only gonna ban RC if they were thinking that from the beginning.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ It's hard to deal with Snake on the Grass field of Pokemon Stadium, but the Rock (just don't fight on the high side of the field), and Water field is still good for Kirby, I think it's a tie with the Fire field. I'll try to fight Snake in Pokemon Stadium 2 and see if it's a counter pick stage for us. ☆

☆ Since there hasn't been much talk on Snake, I'll let this last a bit longer. ☆

 

[jiovanni007]

☆ It's hard to deal with Snake on the Grass field of Pokemon Stadium, but the Rock (just don't fight on the high side of the field), and Water field is still good for Kirby, I think it's a tie with the Fire field. I'll try to fight Snake in Pokemon Stadium 2 and see if it's a counter pick stage for us. ☆

☆ Since there hasn't been much talk on Snake, I'll let this last a bit longer. ☆

Grass isn't that bad, force him on the platforms and there's not much he can do. Utilt is very important here. I would say fire gives us the advantage too due to the large platform areas to shark on. I can't speak on 2 since I never play there and we recently banned it in our region.

 

[fromundaman]

☆ It's hard to deal with Snake on the Grass field of Pokemon Stadium, but the Rock (just don't fight on the high side of the field), and Water field is still good for Kirby, I think it's a tie with the Fire field. I'll try to fight Snake in Pokemon Stadium 2 and see if it's a counter pick stage for us. ☆

☆ Since there hasn't been much talk on Snake, I'll let this last a bit longer. ☆

Just stone camp the entire grass stage.
However, Snake does fairly well on that stage (well, no worse than anywhere else.), though I dunno... I personally do well there so it usually works out.


As for FD though, I disagree. A lack of platforms hinders Snake more than it benefits him, and the stage can mess with his recovery if he recovers from below. It works well for me, and I know quite a few stagesdislike that stage. On top of that, last I checked, Snake boards said that SV and BF are their best stages, so if you have to stage strike, I'd strike those first.

 

[jiovanni007]

As for FD though, I disagree. A lack of platforms hinders Snake more than it benefits him, and the stage can mess with his recovery if he recovers from below. It works well for me, and I know quite a few stagesdislike that stage. On top of that, last I checked, Snake boards said that SV and BF are their best stages, so if you have to stage strike, I'd strike those first.

I've never played a snake that recovered below the stage.

 

[fromundaman]

I've never played a snake that recovered below the stage.

They don't do it voluntarily... Dsmash, Fsmash, 2nd swing aerial hammer, and occasionally Bair send them out horizontally. From there, you can and should pressure them and try to gimp. The only real way for them to avoid it in that situation is to drop off the cypher (usually via AD) and bomb jump. When they bomb jump, either it shall be pretty much in place (low %), or they'll try to tech the stage (most used option). If it's the former, repeat the previous steps. If it's the latter, then they are now forced to recover from below the stage, and if they get stuck, then that's a free stagespike.


A lucky Dair could also do it, as could an inhale break FS, but the first scenario is more likely.

I realize it doesn't happen too often though (though you should be forcing them to do it as much as possible... Saying you've never played a Snake that had to recover from below is kind of insulting yourself...), hence why I said IF they recover from below.

 

[Lord Viper]

Grass isn't that bad, force him on the platforms and there's not much he can do. Utilt is very important here. I would say fire gives us the advantage too due to the large platform areas to shark on. I can't speak on 2 since I never play there and we recently banned it in our region.

☆ Haven't thought of that, using U-Tilt as a key near the platforms. The reason I clam it was hard because Snake can use his mines effectively on this field. I think it's a tie when it come's Pokemon Stadium VS Snake. Pokemon Stadium 2 is banned in a lot of tourney's except for maybe big one's, or from tourney's like mines, so I'll gather all the info I can get from this stage. ☆

Just stone camp the entire grass stage.
However, Snake does fairly well on that stage (well, no worse than anywhere else.), though I dunno... I personally do well there so it usually works out.


As for FD though, I disagree. A lack of platforms hinders Snake more than it benefits him, and the stage can mess with his recovery if he recovers from below. It works well for me, and I know quite a few stagesdislike that stage. On top of that, last I checked, Snake boards said that SV and BF are their best stages, so if you have to stage strike, I'd strike those first.

☆ I tried to Stone camp in this stage with Snake and got an U-Tilt to deal with, Stone camping on the Water and Rock field is very effective, if you know how to Fast Fall with Stone, (Dash + Down-B near the edge... it's very hard to use it that way, or to use it easily turn C-Stick to B + Dash + C-Stick to Stone) then that's even better on the Rock field. ☆

☆ Also, most of the Kirby boards say Final Destination as a bad stage for Kirby VS Snake because he can just mine you, Snake Slide, and camp you the whole match, and it's very hard to deal with it if your bad with Kirby's air style. I'll clam that Battlefield is much worst since Snake's mines can hit you on the platform, but as I said a few time's, I'm not very good at that stage to tell the difference. ☆

 

[Lovely]

Snake doesn't do too well on Pokemon Stadium 2 like he does in one. The Electric and Flying field is a nightmare for Snake, however the Ice and Ground field is great for him, but so does Kirby. Kirby does well on Pokemon Stadium 2, I think more than Pokemon Stadium Melee, so why is it three and a half? ;p

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I was going to end the Snake talk yesterday, but my router went out, I'll end this tomorrow if no one has anything to say. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

Snake doesn't do too well on Pokemon Stadium 2 like he does in one. The Electric and Flying field is a nightmare for Snake, however the Ice and Ground field is great for him, but so does Kirby. Kirby does well on Pokemon Stadium 2, I think more than Pokemon Stadium Melee, so why is it three and a half? ;p

Kirby has a lot more to exploit in general on PS1, although in this particular matchup you do make a good point.

Go look for the talk about those stages for more info.

 

[Lovely]

Kirby has a lot more to exploit in general on PS1, although in this particular matchup you do make a good point.

Go look for the talk about those stages for more info.

I guess I wasn't very talkative on that stage. There are a lot of characters that can't handle PS2 and Snake is one of those characters. Diddy Kong can abuse this the electric field, Kirby can abuse the sky field, Ice Climbers can abuse the ice field, I don't know who can abuse the ground field, I think that's the most balance of them all.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I don't think Ice Climbers can abuse this stage at all, they can't slip on ice on the ice field that's a fact, but is that a good thing? Also, I find Olimar good at this stage so we shouldn't take him here, but I'll leave that to when we talk about Olimar. ☆

 

[Lovely]

☆ I don't think Ice Climbers can abuse this stage at all, they can't slip on ice on the ice field that's a fact, but is that a good thing? Also, I find Olimar good at this stage so we shouldn't take him here, but I'll leave that to when we talk about Olimar. ☆

Olimar good on this stage? I don't see too many of them counter pick this stage, but then again, nobody rarely like's this stage to begin with. As I stand, that this is a good counter pick for Snake as he can't handle the electric and flying field that well, however the ice field is good for his slide, however Kirby can use his Stone trick and his slide Up Smash, the ground field is good for Snake's bombs, but Kirby does alright on this transformation so it's not much of a big deal.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'll take your words into some heavy thought Lovely, Snake talk is over for now, let's move to Marth: ☆

Character Talk #3 Marth

Counter Pick Against: ?

Stage Strike: ?

Banned: ?​

☆ No matter if you play Melee or Brawl, Marth is still a ***** to handle to me or many Kirby mains when it come's to match up's. Alright, start. ☆

 

[Tektite]

Don't chose Battlefield against Marth. The platforms make a tipped Usmash much more easier. His strong air game increases because he'll poke you any where you go on any platform. Dolphin Slash OoS doesn't make him venerable since he'll just land on a platform.

 

[fromundaman]

The less platforms a stage has, the better it is against Marth.

From what I hear, YI(Brawl) is a bad place to take Marth.
If your region allows it, go to PTAD. If not, FD and FO are still a good choices.
Personally, I also like to bring them to PS1, but I just like that stage.

 

[RoflWafflez]

I like Yoshi's Island (B) against Marths, for some reason their game is thrown off by the weird ground and platform in the middle.
FD is really good too cuz of the wide open space, Kirby can have more time/space to evade Marth's long reach and usually get into Marth's face easier for some hits.

But ya, dont go to BF. Tippahs...

 

[fromundaman]

I've heard one of the better Marths in my region (Beegs, although he is not well known.) say that YI was a great Marth stage (and he destroyed me there), so I dunno...

 

[A1lion835]

BF gives marths tippered usmashes and fsmashes X_X. Smashville is good for him too. I just asked the marth boards to come over, let's see what they say...

 

[Lovely]

I remember I choose Battlefield 5 months ago and got two stocked n00bishly because I didn't know Marth was a monster in this stage. x_x

Anyone try to take Marth to Halberd? I want to try it on Marth and see if it works, too bad Sky World is banned or I'll take him there. But aside of Marth being a pain when I pick Kirby, doesn't he look sexy? ;p

 

[Schwaumlaut]

Beegs is right, Yoshi's Island is good - you can't get caught under it like FD, and the relatively short sides make up b kills easier. It's especially good against vertical killers like G&W because while you lose some of Marth's great vertical options, you still have the horizontal ones. One thing I don't like about Yoshi's is that the slanted edges make edgeguarding onstage a lot harder - dtilt doesn't poke unless they pop waaaay over the ledge, and you can forget punishing non-sweetspots with tipped fmash. This is especially sad to lose vs. Kirby because if Kirby likes to Final Cutter just off the edge, you can often just fsmash him out of it for kills as early as 60% or 70%. Don't do that against Marth - you will eat an fsmash, counter, or up b OOS.

As Marth, I hate Distant Planet because the central platform invites attacks from below while the hill is difficult to approach (you're either going downhill, again not great, or trying to approach from the ledge, which invites gimps). Luigi's Mansion is also a gigantic pain in the *** since it cuts off his diagonal aerial approach with fair and nair. Japes is a pain in the *** against Kirby because Inhale shuts down approaches toward the platforms if Kirby decides to camp out.

Delfino is a good stage because the short ceilings and sides on some transitions help kill; you can also attack through the main platform and dtilt lock on some transformations. Playing in the water can also be good since you can spike with dair or use watercanceled up-b to kill people who don't have dragon punches and tap jump off. Lylat is a good stage for Marth against Kirby because it's relatively easy to maintain stage control, so the tilting level doesn't gimp our recovery as much. Onstage, the platforms are party central. Also a relatively low ceiling means dsmash is guaranteed to kill Kirby around 110%.

Most of this is looking at stages from a generic Marth perspective, rather than Marth v. Kirby, but I've tried to stick in as many Kirby-specific tricks as I've run into.

 

[RoflWafflez]

I would assume Halberd is the same situation as Delfino, so that takes care of that...but i wouldnt go to Distant Planet even if it gave me an insta-win. I despise that place...

And i coulda sworn Weegee Mansion was good stage for Marths...ah well, i gonna have to train against some more Marths now.

 

[Lovely]

Beegs is right, Yoshi's Island is good - you can't get caught under it like FD, and the relatively short sides make up b kills easier. It's especially good against vertical killers like G&W because while you lose some of Marth's great vertical options, you still have the horizontal ones. One thing I don't like about Yoshi's is that the slanted edges make edgeguarding onstage a lot harder - dtilt doesn't poke unless they pop waaaay over the ledge, and you can forget punishing non-sweetspots with tipped fmash. This is especially sad to lose vs. Kirby because if Kirby likes to Final Cutter just off the edge, you can often just fsmash him out of it for kills as early as 60% or 70%. Don't do that against Marth - you will eat an fsmash, counter, or up b OOS.

I thought I saw why my friend had a tough time facing Marth on this stage, and I see the reason, though I don't know any Kirby main that is Up B happy except for two people, but they use it very well.

And i coulda sworn Weegee Mansion was good stage for Marths...ah well, i gonna have to train against some more Marths now.

Marth has little to nothing to abuse this stage while Kirby can abuse Up Tilt, Hammer, and his grabs on this stage when VS Marth. I also don't know why Pikachu does bad on this stage from what the boards say.

 

[RoflWafflez]

I also don't know why Pikachu does bad on this stage from what the boards say.

I guess its cuz they cant QuAC and stuff like that, they cant really maneuver around the stage quickly which gives them their strength in a battle. Iono, i dont use Pika, im just guessing.

 

[Schwaumlaut]

Oh, other thing about Luigi's Mansion that I forgot to mention: the pillar hurtboxes mean that if Marth isn't careful about his spacing and attacks, he can get caught in hitlag. If you're super tricky, this can be used to extend the duration of moves so people run into them, but more often you give people a few more frames to dodge. Then you get punished. >_<

 

[Schwaumlaut]

why Pikachu does bad on this stage from what the boards say.

Just guessing here, but the pillars eat his thunder jolt spam, the platforms eat his thunder spam, and if he dsmashes or fairs near the pillars, he'll be stuck in his attack about as long as a dsmashing Wario.

 

[Pierce7d]

As Kirby, you probably want to counter-pick to Frigate or Rainbow. Marth uses platforms better than Kirby, but I have a stupidly annoying time vs really good Kirby's that space well and know how to get in and out. I've been underestimating Kirby for a while. I'd get rid of Battlefield, as Marth LIVES there IMO. Smashville is good to enhance your recovery options.