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Kirby's Warp Star Adventure: Kirby's Stage Discussion *Meta Knight Talk*

A1lion835

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Do not go: anywhere with flat ground. Actually, anywhere with any ground at all

Go to: places with hazards, places with lots of stuff happening (RC).

Stage Strike: er...Halberd, if it's neutral, low ceiling and straight platforms lead to dying, Ice Climbers lead to dying, getting grabbed leads to...

I'll check the IC boards to see what the say and edit this post later.

Edit:

Screw my promise, IC boards don't have a stage discussion thread.
 

fromundaman

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Meh, not only is Halberd rarely a neutral, but if it were, I wouldn't mind playing there.... I'd just shark the entire 8 minutes.
 

Lovely

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♣ FD and Smashville is a hard place to deal with Ice Climbers. I know someone mention Pokemon Stadium to start on or counter pick, and their right, the transformations can sometimes mess up grab combo's and Kirby can use the different fields better than Ice Climbers. ♥

Screw my promise, IC boards don't have a stage discussion thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223896

♣ Too bad it's not very active. D: ♥
 

Lord Viper

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According to that stage guide, Pokemon Stadium is a awful play for Ice Climbers to play on, I'll consider that has a counter pick. We don't have enough ideas for stage strikes but Final Destination, Smashville, and possibile Battlefield.

Edited: If you masted Fast Fall Rock and play on Battlefield, you might have a better chance of winning against the Ice Climbers. Remember that Fast Rock works best on Platform stages.
 

Lovely

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Edited: If you masted Fast Fall Rock and play on Battlefield, you might have a better chance of winning against the Ice Climbers. Remember that Fast Rock works best on Platform stages.
♣ I must learn how to do Fast Rock. How do you perform Fast Rock? ♥
 

Lord Viper

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♣ I must learn how to do Fast Rock. How do you perform Fast Rock? ♥
You dash near the edge and press Down-B and you should transform into Stone Kirby faster than you uselly would in the air. However, you might lose a stock if you don't transform back in time. Also, it's better to set your C-Stick to your Special to able to use this better.

but, if you miss a fast rock, you lost a stock...
That's if your a novice at using Fast Rock at the edge. You can perform this on platforms, just make sure your not obvious with your Fast Fall Rock so you don't get grabbed.
 

Lord Viper

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I'll take your word for it. I generally forget that I even can fast rock...
Don't take my words too often, since I'm a terrible teacher. =P

When you Fast Rock a platform, mostly you can't break out until you hit the ground, if you Fast Rock off the edge, you can able to break out of it before you die, (before you see the magnify screen on each stage, I'm too lazy to post all the distance you can break free on each stage).

Hm ive heard of Fast Rock, but ive never tried it. Anyone ever used it to advantage before? like is it worth learning?
It's not needed since many Kirby mains don't use Stone, but it will improve your strategies and mind games if you master it. But over all, it's not needed most of the time.
 

Allied

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i used stone in a doubles match vs a metaknight landed it for the kill 3 times XDDD

anyway about the icies discussion i'm going to say start stage striking with Final D or Yoshi's or Smashville your pick

If they are smart they will obviously either strike Lylate / Yoshi's

i try to take them to Battlefield / Lylat


then if its your CP

Rainbow Cruise / Brinstar / Frigate
should be your main options
most icies will ban Brinstar

then if they pick a CP

you should be banning FD
imo its where they would take u
 

Kewkky

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Hm ive heard of Fast Rock, but ive never tried it. Anyone ever used it to advantage before? like is it worth learning?
I dunno, I find better options than stone most of the time. If you fast rock instead of falling bair while running off of a platform, opponents will react the same way, since the time it takes both attacks to hit them is about the same.

Plus I'd rather keep my cstick for fast smashes. Hating it when I try to smas and end up tilting/jabbing in the wrong way...! :\
 

Lord Viper

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Btw WTF is Stage Striking? I cant tell if its a good thing or a bad thing lol.
You better not go to a tourney and not know what a stage strike is. Before you play your first match with your opponent, you strike a starter stage that's on the starter list on a tourney your going to, (meaning you just pick a stage you don't want to start on), you and your opponent keep striking a stage until it's one more left, the last stage is what you play on. Stage striking is very important if you don't want to have a nightmare start on your match like stage striking VS a Marth main until Battlefield is picked is an awful start. Just about every offline tourney except maybe Japan follow this rule, (Japan they random pick starter stages and part of a proof of why they tier list is so different).
 

RoflWafflez

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Hmm... at all the tournies I've been to, me and my opponent just agree on one neutral stage to begin the set on, we never do that "process of elimination" thing ur talkin about. It's never really been a required rule i've heard of in any tourney.
 

fromundaman

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Wow.. Have you been to any big tournies? I mean, I don't live in Florida, but according to most FL players, all tournies work by standard SBR rules.
 

link64e

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IC's eh? The best way to counter is to pull out the player's controller. :laugh:

But as for stages, never ever take them to FD. Ban that junk immediately. Best place to counter pick is Rainbow Cruise. Kirby has aerial dominance over IC's.

IC's usually ban Rainbow Cruise so the next best bet is Jungle ****. Nana can easily be knocked into the river and sent away leaving a vulnerable Popo. His single Chain Grab only goes up to 60% anyways.
 

Lord Viper

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I'll change character talk tomorrow. Any request on the next character we should talk about?
 

fromundaman

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Well, there was some demand for MK earlier. I still think it's kind of pointless, but if people want to do it, wemight as well.
 

RoflWafflez

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I vote for MK as well. And yea, ive been to a pretty large tourney here in FL, about a good 60-70 ppl attended, including M2K, but i stilll have never heard of that rule before. Eh whatevs.
MK it is.
 

fromundaman

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Hmmm... well, if two players agree on a stage, you don't actually HAVE to do the stage striking system (Which is how AZ and I have played entire sets on PTAD in pools at tournies where PTAD was banned). So maybe that just happened to you all your matches?
 

RoflWafflez

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Yea, basically. What we do is we discuss which stage we should go on first ("So we'll go to Yoshi's?" "Nah, dont feel like it" "How bout Smashville?" "OK, sure.") and then we fight there. Then, the loser CP's the next one, obviously.

Very informal as a matter of fact.
 

fromundaman

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Just keep in mind that while you *can* do it that way, the opponent doesn't have to agree with you and can stagestrike instead.
 

RoflWafflez

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Of course. If there is a rule that i am not aware of, and the opponent brings it up, then i will comply with it. But, as of yet, nobody has brought it up to me. =/
 

fromundaman

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Hold on, I just checked the OP... why are we saying it's okay to have a Snake bring you to BF, arguably his best stage?

EDIT: Nevermind, just reread the section, and it was because we didn't agree. My bad. I still say BF is bad vs Snake though, but meh.
 

fromundaman

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I won't argue this now, as we have already derailed the thread enough, but there is a LOT more to look out for than that.
 

RoflWafflez

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I mean aside form the usualy shenanigans Snakes do on all stages. Watch out for the u-tilts thru the platforms, etc. Im just sayin i like it cuz fightin thru the platforms with aerials and stuff is effective for me, and Snakes have some trouble moving around with platforms in the way.
Moving on...
 

Lord Viper

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Nevermind, just reread the section, and it was because we didn't agree. My bad. I still say BF is bad vs Snake though, but meh.
Also, I posted at the end of the second post that changes may come in due time because there's always a chance I make mistakes on what stages are good/bad to pick. It's always expected on a first attempt right? =P

Anyways, Meta Knight it is:

Character Talk #4 Meta Knight


Counter Pick Against: ?

Stage Strike: ?

Banned: ?

He's good at nearly all the stages that Kirby is good. IMO, let's talk about Pictochat vs Meta Knight, is it a good stage to counter pick vs him?
 

fromundaman

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Pictochat can be a good stage vs MK. However, the sides are close, meaning it's easier for him to SL you off as you recover or Dsmash kill.
Also, MK is one of the few characters that can punish stone on reaction, making even infinite stone unsafe in a lot of cases if they know about it.

That being said, MK is generally as good or better than us on most stages.
Brinstar is a bad idea due to the fact he can SL cancel through the ground into a Dsmash, and the sides are really close.
Delfino is a MK CP.
LM is fairly bad since we have nothing really abusable on that stage, whereas he does, even if it's kind of sub-par for exploits on that stage.
PS1 is pretty good. We have more exploits, and the infinite stone glitch is close enough to the ground that he can't punish it with SL.
PTAD isn't too great for the same reasons as Brinstar, and because he can abuse the same things as us.
I personally don't mind any of the neutrals, but BF is supposed to be really good for him.
Japes is a decent stage against him, but he still does better. It kind of negates his recovery advantage, but it doesn't really hurt him either, and he has some cool exploits on this stage. Also, he's more likely to kill off the sides, so the high ceiling actually hurts us more than him, since we have more vertical kill options.
He's better than us on RC too.
We do pretty good on Lylat. The tilting ground can mess him up a bit when he recovers, he can be Ninjaspiked, however unlikely that may be, and the platforms don't really help him any more than they help us.
Castle siege doesn't really do much for either of us to my knowledge. Only thing I can think of is the statues allowing move refreshing to us both.
Frigate isn't bad either, but there isn't much that we can do there that he can't, other than the grab release thing against the wall.
Halberd is bad, M'kay? Autocanceled SLs though the ground will be bad for your health, as will the inevitable gimps.
Norfair is also bad. Bring him there if you want to get planked for an entire match.
I don't know what to think of Pirate Ship... In theory, it'll help us more than him, but it's a pretty meh stage for us both.
I don't know enough about PS2 to talk about it.
Same for Distant Planet, though MK's glide toss and autocanceled SL could make this stage bad.


Basically, for this matchup, I'd stick to neutrals (especially SV), Lylat, or PS1.



EDIT: Rofl, as I said before, if you want to discuss that (I still definitely disagree for numerous reasons), bring it to the general chat thread or xat chat. Hell even the matchup thread if you want.
 

RoflWafflez

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EDIT: Rofl, as I said before, if you want to discuss that (I still definitely disagree for numerous reasons), bring it to the general chat thread or xat chat. Hell even the matchup thread if you want.
Agreed, i'll save it for another time. Anywayz, i like BF and SV especially against MK, that extra little platform for extra midgamez and the use of sharking. FD just gives MK the ability to just **** undisturbed, since he's faster and connects moves better than us. Platforms, IMO, help us get in hits better and stand a chance.

And of course, and hazard as Pictochat has is a way to screw with MK, so those are always good to get in kills or just more %. If its a legal stage, go for it.
 

Lord Viper

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We should have more people on this talk now, it's freaken Meta Knight, the most common character in every Brawl tourney. I know everyone has different thoughts on this.
 

Lovely

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♣ I'll say pick Pokemon Stadium since I'll clam that Kirby better at that stage. Stage Strike and Banned Battlefield since that's one of Meta Knight's best stage. I haven't really thought of what stage to play Meta Knight on, so I don't know a lot. ♥
 

Ladybug

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Delfino always seems like it would be in MK's favour. Yeah it's good for Kirby, but against other players that have less under the stage moves. MK has much better range under that stage than Kirby does. I personally think that Pictochat is a good stage pick.
 

RoflWafflez

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The thing is that alot of our good stages are either also good for him, or even beter for him than for us. Its pretty hard to find a stage where we actually have an advantage over him on it.
An idea would be to go to a stage where both Kirby and MK are at a disadvantage, and exploit his own weakness to freak him out and possiby mindgame up for the win. Idk...
 

fromundaman

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An idea would be to go to a stage where both Kirby and MK are at a disadvantage, and exploit his own weakness to freak him out and possiby mindgame up for the win. Idk...
Hence why I said Pirate Ship isn't a bad place to bring him.

I mean, I still prefer PS1, but meh.
 

Allied

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for counterpicking metaknight your going to either want a neutral stage or a EXTREMELY HARZOUS CP that the metaknight is unfamilar

Any other standard CP metaknight is good with so QFT

Out of the neutral stages don't pick FD anything else its pretty much up to u
thats how i usually go by personal preference and knowledge of the metaknight's playstyle

for example if hes flashy but known to sucide you may wanna go something with a stage that can make that happen easier

whatever the point is your best bet is staying neutral
 

Lord Viper

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We will start on another character in a tomorrow. I think we should had started Meta Knight later since there's not much to talk about when it come's to picking stages. We really need to talk about Olimar since many Kirby mains have huge confusion when it come's to picking stages VS him.
 
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