KirbyKaze's Sheik MU Guide - POSTPONED INDEFINITELY

[KirbyKaze]

.....................yes.

 

[bubbaking]

Quick Q: How important is WDing for Sheik? Like, I know it's pretty good overall, and I play Samus, so it's necessary, but I kinda find it....annoying w/ Sheik. Not that it's harder, far from it, but it just doesn't seem to accomplish much when used for anything besides edgehogging (and reverse needling is probably better for that imo), and a variant of DDing.

 

[Jolteon]

from my experience jab-ftilt works against ASDI or SDI up, I don't know if it's guaranteed to outspeed a nair though (I actually doubt it does just looking at peach's nair lol)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Quick Q: How important is WDing for Sheik? Like, I know it's pretty good overall, and I play Samus, so it's necessary, but I kinda find it....annoying w/ Sheik. Not that it's harder, far from it, but it just doesn't seem to accomplish much when used for anything besides edgehogging (and reverse needling is probably better for that imo), and a variant of DDing.

.....................are you serious?

 

[soap]

sheik can get by without wavedashing actually, but it's very good for shifting momentum/resetting botched dash animations.

And you know, spacing a plethora of ground moves at a quicker than walk pace

 

[bubbaking]

Ahhh, gotcha! By "botched dash animations", i'm guessing an example could be when you reverse direction while dashing and get caught in that slow turnaround motion?

 

[Kaffei]

space fair

.....

lol <_< that's half the MU i think. I've 3 stocked chu on FD in that MU by literally just spacing fair so i don't get grabbed.

ok. thx thx =D

 

[Strong Badam]

Sheik's optimal gameplay in most relevant match-ups is for the most part grounded spacing game, and she only takes to the air outside of combos/edgeguarding for AC Fairs/platform movement and such. This makes wavedashing an essential spacing tool to add to Dash Dance, Fox Trot, and walking, as it opens up Dash -> WD back, as well as something to do out of Dash Dance to return to a standing position.

 

[bubbaking]

I see. So grounded, dancing sheiks tend to do better than jumpy ones?

 

[soap]

not necessarily.

If you are good at spacing aerials/needles u can do fine

even better if you know how to transition on the fly from spacing an aerial into ground spacing against the counterattack via dash dancing/wavedashing/jumping back what have you

 

[KirbyKaze]

Whether you're air based or ground based, wavedash isn't optional. For any character. Even Link.

 

[bubbaking]

I see. Of course, I should have realized, the best Sheiks are the ones who can incorporate both aspects and balance their gameplay.

Whether you're air based or ground based, wavedash isn't optional. For any character. Even Link.

Wait, even for Bowser? :O

 

[Phatgamer1]

I see. Of course, I should have realized, the best Sheiks are the ones who can incorporate both aspects and balance their gameplay.



Wait, even for Bowser? :O

Just ask dat ***** Arash. Or djnintendo for you new school kids.

 

[bubbaking]

Do those guys namesearch cuz you might have brought 'em here. Anyway, Bowser's WD is so laggy though. :/ His landing anim is greater than all the other chars; it's like they punished for jumping (or moving at all). (x_x) Not saying his WD is bad, though, before some1 gets the wrong idea.

 

[Kaffei]

Bowser is just a bad character

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm kind of busy with schoolwork right now and don't want to make a seriously long, informative post about MUs until life is a bit easier.

But I think, because of popular demand, I'll be doing Falco next.

 

[Kaffei]

*Jumps for joy*

 

[Phatgamer1]

First gimp wins?

 

[Strong Badam]

Lolll damn, Arash
that's an old one jeremy

Whether you're air based or ground based, wavedash isn't optional. For any character. Even Link.

shoutouts to Aniki

 

[OverLord]

Anikiiiiiiiiii!

 

[bubbaking]

That even MU. Lolz!

 

[hectohertz]

i honestly could listen to m2k and kk talk about sheik all day...

 

[bubbaking]

One would give you the super-detailed, theoretically-abstracted, frame-perfect explanation, and the other would say, "Hey, that's way too much to think about! Just do this and you'll be fine." XD

 

[soap]

i honestly could listen to m2k and kk talk about sheik all day...

I couldn't .

 

[bubbaking]

But you'd hear yourself speak about her all day. Anyway, we should probably start posting intelligent stuff before KK gets upset w/ u for accumulating spam on his thread. :-s

 

[Teczer0]

I couldn't .

Yea iunno that sounds kinda rough. Maybe with kk, I'd try to derail that discussion after a whole tho.

 

[KirbyKaze]

First gimp wins?

I need to practice this MU a lot more so I can learn better stuff to do about Falco's lasers. I think it comes down more to having a good anti-laser game and applying pressure rather than gimping Falco. I think Falco's offense is good to the point where edgecamp > b-throw can actually be really detrimental against him because of how easily it backfires (being offstage vs him is a pain).

 

[nicaboy]

Flipx I like you

So according to the general community thoughts on sheik she has 4 bad match ups?
Fox
Falco
Puff
Ice climbers.
My thoughts are diffrent but this is pretty much what the general thought is as of now right?

I guess honestly I can see falco having a small advantage cause of his down air and general abilty to control sheik I just never feel like sheik loses. Its feels super even cause gimps tech chases ftilt and fair.

I still think sheik beats puff at least at wrost its even I dont see puff beating sheik. Hbox is just super good vs her(one of his favorite match ups).

Fox ya we all know.

Ice climbers I wanna see everyones thoughts. Ugh it does feel like they get **** off so much easier but sheiks fair is so good too. I dont wanna comment on it but its certainly doable.

Looking foward to updated op kk.

 

[Phatgamer1]

I need to practice this MU a lot more so I can learn better stuff to do about Falco's lasers. I think it comes down more to having a good anti-laser game and applying pressure rather than gimping Falco. I think Falco's offense is good to the point where edgecamp > b-throw can actually be really detrimental against him because of how easily it backfires (being offstage vs him is a pain).

What are you doing now against the lasers that isn't working? Honestly, yeah, platforms help with avoiding lasers but kinda give advantages elsewhere for that MU in Falco's favor. Practicing powershielding on dash approaches helped a TINY bit but once he starts running away its back to square one. With the whole b-throw aspect though, I still think its in Sheik's favor gimp wise regardless of the Falco's offense. We have too much **** to throw out there to kill his garbage recovery for it to be anything but a lost stock for him. IMHO

 

[bubbaking]

Flipx I like you

So according to the general community thoughts on sheik she has 4 bad match ups?
Fox
Falco
Puff
Ice climbers.
My thoughts are diffrent but this is pretty much what the general thought is as of now right?

I guess honestly I can see falco having a small advantage cause of his down air and general abilty to control sheik I just never feel like sheik loses. Its feels super even cause gimps tech chases ftilt and fair.

I still think sheik beats puff at least at wrost its even I dont see puff beating sheik. Hbox is just super good vs her(one of his favorite match ups).

Fox ya we all know.

Ice climbers I wanna see everyones thoughts. Ugh it does feel like they get **** off so much easier but sheiks fair is so good too. I dont wanna comment on it but its certainly doable.

Looking foward to updated op kk.

Hmmm, feeling like the Falco vs Sheik and Jiggs vs Sheik MUs are actually quite even, but perhaps I'm wrong. Sheik has sheik things on Puff but Jiggs has CC rest things. Falco can perform stage control and shine tactics but as you said, Sheik tech chases, gimps, and does other sheik things. I think the small disadvantage goes to Fox and as for ICs, fair is nice but I think it can be punished. Just my honest opinion...

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Fair is hard for ICs to punish and is good against them, but they can do things about it. They can simply roll back -> blizzard to get away from the pressure, although they likely won't gain much from this either unless the Sheik is careless and runs into the blizzard. Having a reliable get-out-of-pressure-free card is still convenient, though. ICs can also do stuff like just fsmash her hand since our hammers our more disjointed than your (still oddly disjointed) hand, but that requires very particular positioning that doesn't come up that often. There's also stuff like wavedash -> usmash/utilt that you need to worry about as well, as well as sillier to stuff like wavedash -> cross-up dsmash as you land.

So, the moral of this story is that while fair is good and can be used often, don't be overzealous with it or you'll find yourself in trouble if the ICs player is proficient.

 

[Tope]

Can I write the CF MU? ahahaha

stupid ICies

just tilt them

 

[Nihonjin]

^Dammit Tope, I summoned you to my thread! Now get your *** in there..

 

[KirbyKaze]

Can I write the CF MU? ahahaha

Yes.

10chars.

 

[JonnyW]

Can I write the CF MU? ahahaha

stupid ICies

just tilt them

Its gonna say: Tech-chase = win.

 

[BigD!!!]

i see other sheiks duck all the time, i have no instinct for when to do that

whats the mentality there

i see it a lot vs marth

 

[Tope]

Basically Dtilt at all times.

 

[Jolteon]

awkward hurtbox+cc properties.

 

[Kaffei]

Please do Falco soon t.t

 

[KirbyKaze]

Write my papers for me then. ;(