Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[-Mars-]

Only way I know is with sideB. As soon as it's ending, if you're about to enter the landing animation, your 2nd jump resets. Timing's pretty strict, but no even close to impossible.

not even close*? if you mean impossible I beg to differ, Gkirbz does that pancake shot thing ALL. THE. TIME. and none of you know how to do it.

funny.... you were just telling me hammer always has lag the other day, and yet.... this.

You can do it with anything. LOL. I've done it with Bair, Uair, after F-Throw, and after B-Throw before, and I've even done it with other characters, too. It's more annoying than useful, IMO.

being able to fly around the stage forever isn't useful??? since when???? iirc its why scrubs cry about mk

Whats the best Gonzo style combo against Donkey Kong?

Fthrow>copy

or if you do have his copy fthrow>DKP

 

[Triple R]

Is there a way to ignore certain members' posts? I remember hearing that you could. I think I may want to use it now lol.

 

[Kappy]

I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the UserCP, Triple R. LOL. I'm gonna do that, too Although I kinda wanna hear more of Mars' recounting of the legendary Gfree and his super-special-awesome pancake shot.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Lololololol.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Mars - Kewkky was saying the ISJR isn't even close to impossible; at the same time unless you want to devote time to getting the somewhat strict timing down, it's more trouble than it's worth.

It's completely true too that it's not critical or even a game changer.

 

[MikeKirby]

OH MY GOD!!! These combos are FREAKIN' RIDICULOUS!!
More more!!!

 

[Kewkky]

Mars - Kewkky was saying the ISJR isn't even close to impossible; at the same time unless you want to devote time to getting the somewhat strict timing down, it's more trouble than it's worth.

It's completely true too that it's not critical or even a game changer.

This. And that the only way I know how to do it, because I've practiced, is with sideB.

I don't even know what a pancake shot is.

 

[Triple R]

So if one Kirby inhales and spits out another Kirby that was crouching, it MUST be a pancake shot! Otherwise I'm clueless...

 

[Kewkky]

Come on guys, try not to troll. If a new Kirby user comes around and sees the Kirby community makiing fun of people like that, they might not want to post and risk being ridiculed, and stuff.

 

[Kappy]

I'm completely open to new Kirbies, their questions, and their attempts at trying out something new. But you can tell the difference between a new Kirby eager to learn and attempting to be creative and this guy. He's playing it like we're the ones who are dumb and aren't using these techniques and that someone he knows is using it all the time. That's the vibe I got from him.

Also, I don't think you can cancel SideB at all with a double jump. Not every character can do it, and I figured Kirby couldn't. But, to prove it to myself, I went into Training Mode and tried it, and nothing happened. Thinking my timing was off, I switched to Bowser, who I know I can do it with, and did it easily. I then went and changed the speed to 1/4th speed and buffered a jump and saw that he jumped out of SideB through mashing the jump button and buffering instead of me timing it correctly. With this information, I went back to Kirby, set the speed to 1/4th, and tried to buffer it with Kirby. It didn't work. I tried to mash it to buffer because it HAS to @ 1/4th speed, and it didn't work. I tried different heights, too. Nothing.

Even though it's not really game-changing, any and all cancels can help a character, so I think this is something good to look into. If you guys have got a video of him canceling his SideB, I'd love to see it. LOL.

 

[Triple R]

Well you can't cancel his side b ever. You can reset your double jumps like you can with Bowser however. I'm not sure if that is what you are talking about, but it can be done with Kirby. It's just extremely pointless because you need to be stupidly high to do it to finish all the hammer and then jump right before you reach the ground.

And if anyone's trolling, it's -Mars-, not the rest of us. If someone starts making up terms I expect them to explain what they mean instead of insulting the Kirby boards.

 

[Kewkky]

It's more like he's trolling, and you guys are giving him a tste of his own medicine. But anyways, I understand you guys. Ignore list takes care of everything I guess?

And RRR's got the sideB info right.

 

[-Mars-]

Even though it's not really game-changing, any and all cancels can help a character, so I think this is something good to look into. If you guys have got a video of him canceling his SideB, I'd love to see it. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&v=5qZ6dEe9kX8&src_vid=Ou5Yeo_ktQA&feature=iv

@rrr

yeah you can Platform cancel and lylats tiltyness edge cancels it too.

 

[Kewkky]

Uhh mars, I think he meant cancelling a sideB, as in, completely stopping the animation and landing with zero lag, not ISJR.

 

[Kappy]

Thank you for that video. It really is pointless now that I see how high you have to be. LOL. Triple R, I was talking about canceling it since Bowser can cancel his at any time while also resetting his jumps. If Kirby could've done that it would've been really awesome.

 

[-Mars-]

Thank you for that video. It really is pointless now that I see how high you have to be. LOL. Triple R, I was talking about canceling it since Bowser can cancel his at any time while also resetting his jumps. If Kirby could've done that it would've been really awesome.

not necessarily, the lil bit of speed gained from this rather than landing regular can make your camping really really gay.

EDIT:

how much shield shrink/push/etc does stone cause?

 

[MikeKirby]

Oh that video. It's harder than it looks. Then again it's been ages since I've tried it. If anything, it'll help Kirby stay afloat and find somewhere else to land if he is already carrying RCO lag.

As far as shield damage stone can do... I say about a 1/3? Well, the main falling hitbox anyway. Stone isn't something to throw out carelessly anyway. Slopes are fun, though.

 

[t!MmY]

Stone's Shield Damage modifier is +0, but remember that it's an 18% hit in the air (which can do about one-third damage by itself). It also strikes a second time when it hits the ground which will either degrade the Shield further possibly breaking it, or it will hit the target because his Shield is too small to defend his lower half. (no one ever thinks of aiming their Shield low against Kirby's Stone).

It's a really good move to use when you know your opponent is going to hide in his Shield (usually expecting an Aerial Attack).

 

[Britex]

D-tilt (trip) to stone (on ground).

This seem like a true combo. I did some testing, but could someone else please test this to see if it really is a combo and if it is, what would be it uses?

 

[MikeKirby]

Whether or not it is a true combo, the risk to reward on what you suggest is very bad. Kirby has a other better options on punishing a d-tilt trip (ex. F-tilt, F-smash, grab).

 

[t!MmY]

In a way, yes it combos: it registers as a 'consecutive hit' in training mode. However, I don't count this as a practical combo because the opponent is not constrained to pratfall position long enough to get hit by the Stone. All they have to do is tap the control stick to cancel their sitting animation and break the combo.

This is why I take Training Mode 'combos' with a grain of salt.

 

[Sage JoWii]

The best way to use stone is as an answer to an aggro chain, that at some point put you above your opponent, or on a slant, because they see stone as 'punishable' without taking heed to the slide physics.

Depending on the what slant you're rockin', you have the possibility of your first falling hitbox> first landing hitbox> slide> second falling hitbox> second landing hitbox.

 

[Kewkky]

It's also a pretty sweet edgeguarding move when they're getting up from the ledge. It covers 3/5 of their options, gives you invincibility in case your opponent ledgedropped instead, and also gives you time to transform back and bair if he rolled onto the stage... It might just be me doing it though.

 

[Anragon]

*up the thread because he finds it useful*

I have some trouble with Kirby's mobility and it makes my game predictable. Do you guys have some tips to improve that ?

Thanks a lot if you do =)

 

[Kmatt]

I find the best way to work with mobility issues is to always lead jumps with an attack, either a F-air or B-air. You may not have the best speed, but it can punish people who try to blindly jump in the way. Overall, Kirby isn't the fastest character, so it takes getting used to. Try to fight battles offstage against characters with slower air speeds and/or weak recoveries, like Samus or Link, and use floating B-air walls to keep them at a disadvantage.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Kirby lacks a lot of speed when mobility is concerned. Horizontal mobility is his glaring weakness. What Kirby lacks in horizontal aptitude, he makes up for in the vertical department. Being able to 'hover' with his jumps above and out of an opponents range gives him a strong bait game; especially when you're hovering back and forth over your opponent, and switching the way you're facing (which gives you different options). I'll elaborate more in a sec, but I feel I should also point out that Kirby has faster horizontal mobility when he's moving backwards for whatever reason. I'm not sure how much faster, and honestly the only place it's noticeable is when he is standing, ShortHops Backwards (torwards the opponent), AirDodges, and DI's back to where he was originally standing. It's a good bait, and it's good for convincing your opponent to come to you. Alternatively it can be used to poke at your opponents range without throwing out an attack; exposing yourself to an attack.

Back to my original point.

If you're hovering in front of a person facing them, they have their Forward tactics, and you have your Forward tactics. Kirby's range to, but are not limited to, and include the ShortHop and FastFall versions: ForwardAir, UpAir, DownAir, and RARBackAir, as well as AD into your opponent>UTilt, another jump, drop down and grab, and jumping past your opponent.
The options that I use in the face-to-face, Kirby aerial situation, position is SHDAir if I think the opponent is going to jump up (SHing it means I don't have to worry about landing lag or having to land at all), I'll jump again if the opponent is throwing out an attack (or if I get too close before I'm ready to attack or punish), or I'll jump past them if I feel uncomfortable or simply to get into my favorite situation, where I have my back to the opponent, (also good simply as a mixup). This position is versatile so lastly, I'd like to say that while this is not the position I generally use as an approach (face-to-face) it's effective when I'm pressing an advantage.

If you're hovering in front a person facing AWAY from them, they have their Forward tactics, and your have your Back tactics. Options: BAir (reg, SH, FF), UAir, as well as AD into your opponent>grab, another jump, or jumping past your opponent. While there may be less options, I find this is my favorite scenario as I believe it's Kirby's strongest. BAir is my go-to option. I'll retreatBAir, SHBAir, FFBAir, BAir in place, mixing up when and how I throw it out in order to stay relatively safe while using one of Kirby's best moves. Sometimes I fall close the ground> SHBAir to bait someone out of their shield. Mostly I hover in this position 'til my opponent attacks with something I can punish with BAir (which happens a lot). Once I open them up, if they go aerial after my BAir, I continue to hover/press forward with BAir, or if they land I land with them and read them. Aside from BAiring, UAir can be used as a mix-up approach though you have to time it where the end of the UAir is what hits since you're facing away.

When your opponent's back is to you, let's say because you jumped over him, he's limited to his Back options which may or may not be advantageous to you. If you find yourself against an opponent who has poor Back options, this may be a position you want to force regularly during the match. Their options don't necessarily even have to be bad as long as they won't beat Kirby's BAir in speed or priority. Generally you want your back facing them as well when you force this position, so you'll want to change the direction you're facing to fit this if necessary.

I know this is a lot of information, and yet, this is only one part of Kirby.

If you're going to be on the ground you'll want to stay mobile; not necessarily attacking. SHAD in and back out of an opponent's range, dashing towards and back and throwing out pivot grabs will help your Kirby ground game, but being effective in the air will do wonders for your Kirby while minimizing Kirby's lack of horizontal mobility.

 

[Kappy]

I think Kirby's mobility is the reason he's not very good, so you have a valid concern since he also lacks a valid projectile that some slower, lower-tier characters enjoy. I still have a problem with Kirby's mobility, but there are ways to mitigate this, and I'll tell you how I do it horizontally and vertically.

Horizontal:

My first piece of advice is tomahawk often. That means do empty Fast Fall Short Hops either straight up or in any direction. I do NOT advise you to hover unless you know the spacing for your opponent's character. Kirby doesn't have the Dair of MK, nor does he have the fall speed to punish everything well, so hovering and hoping to trade with Bair (or even land a solid hit with Bair) isn't going to get you anywhere. This is especially noticeable against a character like Marth or Diddy, who can jump up and nail you while you're hovering before you get to attack.

If you do wind up hovering, BAIR. If you think they're going to jump, Bair. If you see them jumping, Bair. Make sure you're always retreating while doing this so that the chances of you being hit are lessened. If you're feeling bold, Fast Fall and use Uair to catch their jump/attack off-guard. DO NOT FFBAIR. 6/10 times it will be PS'd and you will be punished. Any experienced player will do this. Kirby's Bair isn't very hard to see coming when you're on the ground.

Instead of FFBair, FF into a pivot grab, turnaround grab, Utilt, turnaround jab, or simply tomahawk away.

Kirby's horizontal speed, as bad as it is, is actually extremely useful for edge guarding. Many characters AD past the edge guarding character, but Kirby moves so slowly that baiting others and punishing them is actually pretty easy. In fact, it's amazing because all of Kirby's aerials + Inhale are excellent offstage, and because Kirby won't be moving very far very fast, he can catch AD's easily.

Also, as a side note, a grounded Kirby is not bad. His tilts are incredible, so combining tomahawking with a lot of ground play and throwing in Bair when you feel you should while tomahawking should help you get a feel for how to make Kirby faster.

Vertical:

OK, so everyone thinks Kirby's recovery is great, right? How can it not, he has five jumps? That's partially true. If you DI high and use your jumps sparingly to get onstage, you're golden. However, that is rarely the case, as Kirby is so light that he usually dies before he gets to DI super-high and live, and even then one wrong AD and you'll be dead. And there are those times where you'll be below the stage, and many Kirbies will find themselves being edge hogged and KO'd because his horizontal speed doesn't complement his vertical speed well enough.

To mitigate this, I suggest you recover extremely low. Not even MK will dare SL you if you go so low that he can't SL and regrab the ledge. Here's where Kirby is best at recovering because he has Uair, which is god's gift to any recovery. Here's why:

In any situation, three things can happen to Kirby if he's recovering low and he uses Uair:

- He will connect with Uair, possibly resulting in a stagespike (or at least being able to get to the ledge), Inhale, Bair, etc... (he'll recover safely or Kirbycide)
- The opponent will wait, and by that point you can see his next move coming. He may let you back to the ledge.
- A trade. You can tech whatever side you're thrown into or DI up and hope to god that you live. If you do, you're good.

Basically, you're forcing the opponent to dip so low that he won't want to, and when he tries to attack Uair is strong, fast, and has deceptive range, so you should be safe. I've survived many MK SL's from below the stage (and even scored a few KO's) from recovering like this. I have never had problems with it. Of course, you shouldn't ever recover the same way all the time, but I suggest this as your go-to recovery because it negates Kirby using his horizontal air speed completely to recover, and instead utilizes his five jumps and amazing Uair to get himself back.

And of course, you can Inhale and score a Kirbycide by wave-bouncing/B-reversing the Inhale. I've done it

I hope this helps you! Kirby's horizontal mobility is a huge problem for him, so the most important thing is to try and have him use it as little as possible.

Also, try and use platforms. They help Kirby a LOT. Try running across platforms and Fast Falling, then jumping back up, tomahawking, then Fast Falling again. You'll notice how much faster Kirby appears to be moving, and it really helps with his mix-up game.

 

[Anragon]

Damn, this is amazing guys :o ! Thanks a lot, I will analyze all your posts soon !

 

[Sage JoWii]

I think Kirby's mobility is the reason he's not very good, so you have a valid concern since he also lacks a valid projectile that some slower, lower-tier characters enjoy. I still have a problem with Kirby's mobility, but there are ways to mitigate this, and I'll tell you how I do it horizontally and vertically.

Horizontal:

I do NOT advise you to hover unless you know the spacing for your opponent's character...This is especially noticeable against a character like Marth or Diddy, who can jump up and nail you while you're hovering before you get to attack.

To be honest Kap, that's how I play against Marth's since it's easy to punish his ground game when you're above him and he keeps thinking you're trying to land. Also, being outside his range and jumping again keep you from getting 'jumped up' on when he decides to go up. I definitely stay aerial against Diddy when I have the lead as well.

Also, as a side note, a grounded Kirby is not bad. His tilts are incredible, so combining tomahawking with a lot of ground play and throwing in Bair when you feel you should while tomahawking should help you get a feel for how to make Kirby faster.

^This is good.

Vertical:

OK, so everyone thinks Kirby's recovery is great, right? How can it not, he has five jumps? That's partially true. If you DI high and use your jumps sparingly to get onstage, you're golden. However, that is rarely the case, as Kirby is so light that he usually dies before he gets to DI super-high and live, and even then one wrong AD and you'll be dead. And there are those times where you'll be below the stage, and many Kirbies will find themselves being edge hogged and KO'd because his horizontal speed doesn't complement his vertical speed well enough.

To mitigate this, I suggest you recover extremely low. Not even MK will dare SL you if you go so low that he can't SL and regrab the ledge. Here's where Kirby is best at recovering because he has Uair, which is god's gift to any recovery. Here's why:

In any situation, three things can happen to Kirby if he's recovering low and he uses Uair:

- He will connect with Uair, possibly resulting in a stagespike (or at least being able to get to the ledge), Inhale, Bair, etc... (he'll recover safely or Kirbycide)
- The opponent will wait, and by that point you can see his next move coming. He may let you back to the ledge.
- A trade. You can tech whatever side you're thrown into or DI up and hope to god that you live. If you do, you're good.

Basically, you're forcing the opponent to dip so low that he won't want to, and when he tries to attack Uair is strong, fast, and has deceptive range, so you should be safe. I've survived many MK SL's from below the stage (and even scored a few KO's) from recovering like this. I have never had problems with it. Of course, you shouldn't ever recover the same way all the time, but I suggest this as your go-to recovery because it negates Kirby using his horizontal air speed completely to recover, and instead utilizes his five jumps and amazing Uair to get himself back.

I disagree that you should put Kirby in a position where he's below stage level against any decent speed opponent. As nice as Kirby's vertical is, it gets slower, and the jumps less effective, as he uses more. This means towards the fourth and fifth jump he's staying more stationary with a little added height. This means as he's getting closer to the slant of the stage where stage spikes commonly happen, and getting closer to his opponent, his position in the air is static-ish; a lot of characters can run off the stage and BAir. If Kirby AD's, he's wasting jumps and putting himself in a position need to UpB (which isn't good for Kirby). If I'm a MK and a Kirby recovers low, I'm going to grab the ledge and FFSL, or simply use my extremely good DAir. Kirby's UAir can beat DAir, but if MK is at low percent, it's not going to matter because he can recover from a hit and DAir faster than Kirby can UAir again.

Also, try and use platforms. They help Kirby a LOT. Try running across platforms and Fast Falling, then jumping back up, tomahawking, then Fast Falling again. You'll notice how much faster Kirby appears to be moving, and it really helps with his mix-up game.

^This is good. A lot of this.

There are some things Kappy says that I don't agree with and some which I do, which are in the quoted section, but that doesn't mean he's wrong about any of it; I just have a different view .

 

[Kappy]

But you know the spacing for Marth and Diddy. LOL. I'm saying that if you're unsure of a character's spacing, try not to hover all the time and rather just poke with tilts and staying grounded. If you know a character's spacing and hover outside of their hitbox range (Marth's, for example), then hovering is definitely your best option for reasons you've already stated.

And I should be more clear about recovering: I don't recover literally below the stage. I hang off to the right/left of the lip, dip down to the blast zone, and then begin jumping. Hopefully that clarifies what I was trying to say when I meant "dip below the stage". LOL.

 

[t!MmY]

I'm with JoWii on this one; recovering really low with Kirby is a risky position to be in, specifically against certain characters. Meta Knight in particular - he has so many deadly options against a Kirby recovering low that it's scary.

Yes, U-air with Kirby can take most characters by surprise (even Meta Knight) but it's one of those advantages that dissipate into a disadvantage against someone who knows the match-up. For instance, instead of aiming for Kirby's head with Meta Knight's D-air, the MK can just swipe at where Kirby's feet will be with the U-air. The chances of hitting Kirby's feet aren't great (D-air only stays out for 2 frames) but Meta Knight will continue to be in a dominate position whereas Kirby will lose vertical distance due to duration of the U-air (and the distance lost is greater the fewer jumps Kirby has left since his jumps get shorter each time). Additionally, if Meta Knight does hit Kirby's feet, then that pretty much finishes off Kirby.

Another odd, yet effective, tactic that others can take against Kirby recovering low is a simple Footstool Jump. You won't see this often because you have to know what you're doing in-depth. What the Footstool (or threat of a Footstool) does is it forces Kirby to send out an attack to prevent the Footstool from dunking him (the attack will usually be a U-air). If Kirby attacks with U-air he's in that position of losing vertical height and the opponent will bounce off Kirby with the Footstool moving outside the hitbox's attack. If Kirby doesn't U-air, he gets pushed down from the Footstool which is usually enough to take the stock. This is especially effective with characters that have good aerial mobility, recovery, and\or a spike out of a foot-stool.

Edit:
But I do want to say that recovering really low isn't always a bad idea. If you think you can outsmart your opponent from below (which is surprisingly often considering most people aren't adept at the Kirby match-up), then I agree you can rely on a low recovery. A lot of people take U-air for granted and don't ever expect it to hit as high above Kirby as it does. You still have to be on the look-out for people who don't know the match-up but are overconfident and just happen to use the right move to counter you. (i.e. you have to know what beats out Kirby's U-air when the opponent just throws out an attack, whether or not the opponent knows it will work or not).

 

[Kappy]

Yeah, I see what you're saying, and you're probably right. I don't really think about why I recover really low - I've always had success with it, especially against MK/Falco/Marth. LOL.

 

[Anragon]

Okay, so basically, I just have to improve my mobility with quicks moves(Jab, Tils, Bair/Uair, Grab), SHAD, hovering and SHFF. That's good to know, thanks

Also, what I do when getting back to the stage is jumping while my face is opposed to the stage, and then I can quickly Bair the opponent if he's getting too close.
That's why I love some Copy Hats sometimes, for recovery, depending the B-neutral you have.

 

[Triple R]

I kinda glad Timmy brought up the footstooling Kirby thing. For a little bit now I've been thinking it's pretty easy to footstool Kirby if he recovers low, or you bait his jumps/attacks and just edgeguard him normally. Many times have I played against people playing Kirby where I just go down with whatever character I'm using and just footstool them and I take the stock lol.

 

[Kewkky]

I do what t!mmy said, except I use pretty much any aerial. You can't be footstooled if you're committed to something while in the air. Uair and bair just happen to hit your opponent as well.

 

[t!MmY]

I recover low out of habit from Melee Kirby days - he really didn't have any other form of recovery back then. Kirby's jumps and mobility were so pitiful that I just expected to get hit during my recovery. The funny thing is that I ended up just making the opponent's attack part of my recovery:

1) Jump back to ledge
2) Final Cutter
3) Tech
4) Final Cutter again
5) repeat if necessary

Because of this, I'm pretty fearless on my recovery - it's a gazillion times easier getting back to the ledge in Brawl than it was in Melee. Meta Knight can (and should) still dominate Kirby while he's off-stage, but like I said there are a lot of people who just don't know how to edge guard (air guard) Kirby.

Upon reflection, there's little Kirby can do to 'mix it up' when recovering. If you get hit high you can go overhead or low, but if you didn't get hit upward you're pretty much faced with the fact that you have to make a beeline for the ledge or drop low and come straight up. One other thing I do is just go completely under the stage to the other side. Yup, it's risky (almost everyone should be able to get to the other ledge before Kirby grabs it) but the opponent is usually slow to react because they don't expect it.

 

[Kmatt]

I like to, while holding a ledge, drop off, hop up immediately after I release, and hold a F-air over the ledge. It can knock a ledge guarder back, and sometimes you just land onstage anyway. There is a way to do it with B-air, but I find it to be less effective at landing back onstage as the attack ends.

 

[-Cross-]

Bair seems very strong for conditioning people to shield. My question: Is aerial inhale a good mixup off of rising SH bair? Also does sideb have enough shield push/shield stun to be safe or is the landing lag too much on that move?

 

[Anragon]

If the character you are fighting have long moves/great ground speed, you should not use the Ground Hammer because they can punish you.

Air Hammer is better because you can retreat and often avoid being punished

 

[-Cross-]

I assumed that because I mentioned landing lag, it was a given that I was talking about air hammer, but I'm not blaming you for anything because there is clearly a language barrier. Still that leaves my original question unanswered. Clearly air hammer is safer than ground hammer, but is it actually safe as in if I hit at the tip of its range and get the maximum amount of distance possible away from my opponent after I connect on their shield, then the opponent could not, for example, dash out of shield and punish me? Thanks and also if somebody could answer my question about using inhale as a mixup that would be great also.