Don't forget D-air. It has the worst start-up, but if you use the C-stick you will automatically start your fast-fall on the first frame of it's start-up. I guess this makes it useful if you're getting Star KO'd or something.
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Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>
- Thread starter momochuu
- Start date
aqua421
Smash Apprentice
What stages are good counter picks against ike?
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
I would say pretty much any stage that allows for easy gimps, due to his gimmicky recovery.
Frigate Orpheon comes to mind, with its lack of a ledge on one side of the stage. However, be wary of the relatively low ceiling, as Ike might kill you pretty early.
I'm sure there are others.
I like to take Ike to FD for the neutral if possible so that he has no platforms to do his usual f-air antic with, but that's just preference.
Frigate Orpheon comes to mind, with its lack of a ledge on one side of the stage. However, be wary of the relatively low ceiling, as Ike might kill you pretty early.
I'm sure there are others.
I like to take Ike to FD for the neutral if possible so that he has no platforms to do his usual f-air antic with, but that's just preference.
aqua421
Smash Apprentice
Hmm i don't like fd because its too big. I feel like ike would have a lot of room to space fair/nair and have an easy time keeping me from approaching.
I ended up picking lylat in a tourney match yesterday but I think my problem was that I was playing san so any stage I chose probably wouldn't have that much effect lol.
I ended up picking lylat in a tourney match yesterday but I think my problem was that I was playing san so any stage I chose probably wouldn't have that much effect lol.
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Well Lylat's platforms are low enough so that Ike's u-smash and f-smash can still clip you from the bottom, so yeah. And Ike isn't really capable of preventing a Kirby from approaching, so FD shouldn't be a problem.
Of course, there's always the possibility that you were outplayed, as you said.
Of course, there's always the possibility that you were outplayed, as you said.
Which stage to counterpick Ike is one thing... which stage to counterpick San is completely different. XD
I would agree that FD could work as a good first round pick. Yes it can give Ike more room but he will eventually approach. And yes, Ike is one of the few characters that Kirby can expect to eventually approach.
I don't think I'd take San to Lylat. :|
I would agree that FD could work as a good first round pick. Yes it can give Ike more room but he will eventually approach. And yes, Ike is one of the few characters that Kirby can expect to eventually approach.
I don't think I'd take San to Lylat. :|
yoshi8984
Smash Lord
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Why are PS1 and PS2 good stages for Kirby? And how can he abuse each transformation on those stages?
DRDN
Smash Master
Both stages are good for fighting in the air. PS2
Ice gives you a charging smash while moving across the stage
Air you have rock solid to fall fast and multiple jumps help get to and bait/punish opponents
Electric the main thing is to hold the center if your opponent is on the conveyers their options are limited....rock solid is also nice on them because it becomes another hitbox when it falls
Ice gives you a charging smash while moving across the stage
Air you have rock solid to fall fast and multiple jumps help get to and bait/punish opponents
Electric the main thing is to hold the center if your opponent is on the conveyers their options are limited....rock solid is also nice on them because it becomes another hitbox when it falls
I personally dislike PS2 strongly. I don't like how the physics of the stage changes. It ruins my gameplay experience. I might want to try something out, but then the air stage comes on and now I can't. Or I may want to do some ground games then electric comes up, and now the ledges are dangerous places.
But hey, that's just me. I don't know about the other kirbies.
But hey, that's just me. I don't know about the other kirbies.
Kappy
Smash Ace
Abusing each transformation is the same for (almost) every character.
PS1:
Besides the fact that there are platforms (+ for Kirby in my book), the stage has smaller blast zones than FD, and VERY small blast zones when transforming, leading to early KO's. This works in and against Kirby's favor.
The lip is great for edge play because some characters Kirby couldn't normally gimp have specific trouble there (Diddy, Spacies). He also has what is called the Ninja Spike, where you Uthrow Lucario or ZSS at the lip and it causes them to be spiked by the lip.
That's for all transformations. The Fire transformation Kirby has two spots (under the tree and on the right side of the tree) where he can abuse Vulcan Jab and Dtilt. The platform from the burning house is also great for Uair.
The Grass transformation has a Jackhammer (where Kirby is in his rock and has an infinite hitbox) on the right side of the bush platform. The treehouse platforms are general spacing tools for Kirby, and Uthrow can kill much earlier on the top of that one (probably as early as the top platform on BF).
The Rock transformation allows Kirby to abuse Dtilt and Vulcan Jab in the middle, good platform spacing for weird Bairs/Dairs/Uairs, and Fsmashes. He can rock the ledge on the left side to push people off in their shield or get a hit. It's also good for Dairing and edge play, but bear in mind that it's also dangerous at high %'s. The right side's lip has a weird roll glitch where if you roll you'll stay in one spot, and that can be utilized for punishes (but don't roll into it yourself!).
The Water transformation has the two platforms on the right side, but the LEFT side allows Kirby to do a Ninja Spike to any of the cast or the Double Suicide, where Kirby suicides with the person he Uthrows. The Ninja Spike and Double Suicide both require you to Uthrow on the left side and hit the windmill just barely - the timing for both varies.
That's PS1. It's basically a transforming BF, and I don't know about other Kirbies, but my best stage is arguably BF.
PS2:
The normal transformation is pretty much like PS1. The difference here is that the lip is fixed - so no dumb SD's from characters who hate PS1's lip. The blast zone is larger than PS1's, and it doesn't get that much smaller when transforming.
The Ice Transformation is probably Kirby's best one. It allows for sliding charged Fsmash, Usmash, and even Dsmash. That's it, though. Anyone can abuse that. It would also give Kirby more slide during his Jump Canceled Item Toss.
The Electric Transformation is fine for Kirby. You can use the rock to ride the conveyor and attack those below stage, but this is a pretty bad transformation for almost everyone. Kirby is one of those unaffected thanks to his 5 jumps. The platforms are pretty bad for spacing, IMO.
The Wind transformation is fine. Kirby can transcend the wind with rock and fall faster, and he can catch a lot of people off-stage since he has 5 jumps. Going to the top blast zone and Uairing is a good idea if you're confident or your opponent has a bad Dair. This one's good and bad, IMO.
And the Ground transformation is, IMO, horrible. It has a couple platforms but otherwise Kirby has no real advantages there. In fact, I think that might be his worst one on PS2.
I hope this helps you!
PS1:
Besides the fact that there are platforms (+ for Kirby in my book), the stage has smaller blast zones than FD, and VERY small blast zones when transforming, leading to early KO's. This works in and against Kirby's favor.
The lip is great for edge play because some characters Kirby couldn't normally gimp have specific trouble there (Diddy, Spacies). He also has what is called the Ninja Spike, where you Uthrow Lucario or ZSS at the lip and it causes them to be spiked by the lip.
That's for all transformations. The Fire transformation Kirby has two spots (under the tree and on the right side of the tree) where he can abuse Vulcan Jab and Dtilt. The platform from the burning house is also great for Uair.
The Grass transformation has a Jackhammer (where Kirby is in his rock and has an infinite hitbox) on the right side of the bush platform. The treehouse platforms are general spacing tools for Kirby, and Uthrow can kill much earlier on the top of that one (probably as early as the top platform on BF).
The Rock transformation allows Kirby to abuse Dtilt and Vulcan Jab in the middle, good platform spacing for weird Bairs/Dairs/Uairs, and Fsmashes. He can rock the ledge on the left side to push people off in their shield or get a hit. It's also good for Dairing and edge play, but bear in mind that it's also dangerous at high %'s. The right side's lip has a weird roll glitch where if you roll you'll stay in one spot, and that can be utilized for punishes (but don't roll into it yourself!).
The Water transformation has the two platforms on the right side, but the LEFT side allows Kirby to do a Ninja Spike to any of the cast or the Double Suicide, where Kirby suicides with the person he Uthrows. The Ninja Spike and Double Suicide both require you to Uthrow on the left side and hit the windmill just barely - the timing for both varies.
That's PS1. It's basically a transforming BF, and I don't know about other Kirbies, but my best stage is arguably BF.
PS2:
The normal transformation is pretty much like PS1. The difference here is that the lip is fixed - so no dumb SD's from characters who hate PS1's lip. The blast zone is larger than PS1's, and it doesn't get that much smaller when transforming.
The Ice Transformation is probably Kirby's best one. It allows for sliding charged Fsmash, Usmash, and even Dsmash. That's it, though. Anyone can abuse that. It would also give Kirby more slide during his Jump Canceled Item Toss.
The Electric Transformation is fine for Kirby. You can use the rock to ride the conveyor and attack those below stage, but this is a pretty bad transformation for almost everyone. Kirby is one of those unaffected thanks to his 5 jumps. The platforms are pretty bad for spacing, IMO.
The Wind transformation is fine. Kirby can transcend the wind with rock and fall faster, and he can catch a lot of people off-stage since he has 5 jumps. Going to the top blast zone and Uairing is a good idea if you're confident or your opponent has a bad Dair. This one's good and bad, IMO.
And the Ground transformation is, IMO, horrible. It has a couple platforms but otherwise Kirby has no real advantages there. In fact, I think that might be his worst one on PS2.
I hope this helps you!
falln
Smash Ace
ps2 is kinda good for kirby but its a bull**** stage that shouldnt be legal anywhere
the platforms are slightly higher on neutral formation which means kirby cant fullhop onto it. thats always bothered me. also the edge is a lot more forgiving for most chars than ps1 but doesnt help kirby much
ground morph: get on one side of the mountain and sit there. you're pretty much unapproachable (especially the left side)
electric morph: if you already have control of the middle of the stage then awesome this morph will make things easier for you. if you dont, please dont throw away % trying to reclaim it just camp on the side or something until its gone. the mid section is a really broken point to defend.
ice morph: dash + shield will beat every option every character has unless its vs a char with a bigger grab range than you. the forwards momentum + kirby's obscene shield grab will let you punish anything (the other reason this is good is because everyone likes to fool around with all the bull**** their character is able to do on ice, and you can just shieldgrab all of it).
air morph: this is really good for kirby. you can stall up in the air in the corner by spamming side b if you dont already have ground control. if you do it makes your juggling 100x better because your opponent has to telegraph everything they do. also you cant try and juggle kirby on this morph because he can float to the top and then stone back to the bottom and your opponent will not physically be able to reach the ground in time to stop you.
the platforms are slightly higher on neutral formation which means kirby cant fullhop onto it. thats always bothered me. also the edge is a lot more forgiving for most chars than ps1 but doesnt help kirby much
ground morph: get on one side of the mountain and sit there. you're pretty much unapproachable (especially the left side)
electric morph: if you already have control of the middle of the stage then awesome this morph will make things easier for you. if you dont, please dont throw away % trying to reclaim it just camp on the side or something until its gone. the mid section is a really broken point to defend.
ice morph: dash + shield will beat every option every character has unless its vs a char with a bigger grab range than you. the forwards momentum + kirby's obscene shield grab will let you punish anything (the other reason this is good is because everyone likes to fool around with all the bull**** their character is able to do on ice, and you can just shieldgrab all of it).
air morph: this is really good for kirby. you can stall up in the air in the corner by spamming side b if you dont already have ground control. if you do it makes your juggling 100x better because your opponent has to telegraph everything they do. also you cant try and juggle kirby on this morph because he can float to the top and then stone back to the bottom and your opponent will not physically be able to reach the ground in time to stop you.
Kawaii Poyo
Smash Champion
I've been thinking about an airdodge punish for Kirby, but I don't know how to test it since CPUs are dumb and it has to be timed, so I haven't been able to precise with it on Wi-Fi.
You know how some characters like Snake often airdodge to the ground vs Kirby cause it's like one of their three landing options (the other two being B-reversing nades or falling with a bair/some other laggy air)? Like, they'll airdodge to the ground sometimes cause they know a Kirby bair won't kill them until high percents and Kirby's bair is probably stale by kill percent in that match-up.
Well, I've been wondering, can you aerial footstool someone out of an airdodge (the vulnerable frames of course)? If you can, then on airdodge reads, if your opponent airdodges low enough to where a footstool will ground them, then maybe you could punish airdodges with a footstool to jab lock? I haven't tested this yet and don't even know if it works. Can someone test it out for me? I think it'd be pretty cool if it works. XD
You know how some characters like Snake often airdodge to the ground vs Kirby cause it's like one of their three landing options (the other two being B-reversing nades or falling with a bair/some other laggy air)? Like, they'll airdodge to the ground sometimes cause they know a Kirby bair won't kill them until high percents and Kirby's bair is probably stale by kill percent in that match-up.
Well, I've been wondering, can you aerial footstool someone out of an airdodge (the vulnerable frames of course)? If you can, then on airdodge reads, if your opponent airdodges low enough to where a footstool will ground them, then maybe you could punish airdodges with a footstool to jab lock? I haven't tested this yet and don't even know if it works. Can someone test it out for me? I think it'd be pretty cool if it works. XD
No, you cannot Footstool someone out of an Air dodge. The only time you can Footstool is when they are in their falling animation* or jumping animation.
*This can include 'helpless' falling (e.g. falling back down after Firefox) but there can be frames of animation where you cannot Footstool (e.g. Olimar's missed U-special cannot be Footstooled for a little bit after he starts falling).
*This can include 'helpless' falling (e.g. falling back down after Firefox) but there can be frames of animation where you cannot Footstool (e.g. Olimar's missed U-special cannot be Footstooled for a little bit after he starts falling).
Kappy
Smash Ace
I haven't done any testing, but this might be like where you can footstool a character during a move and they won't be affected bu the footstooling character will get a huge boost in their jump height. LOL. It'd be cool if what you're proposing is legit, though!
Kawaii Poyo
Smash Champion
Hmmm, makes what I wanted to do less practical, but still maybe possible. Depending on how high someone airdodges vs Kirby (since Kirbys chase in the air with uair and bair), it maybe still possible to catch them in their air falling frames after the airdodge unless they immediately buffer something after their airdodge (if they don't, they should still have some frames of being in the normal air falling animation). Curious to see if you can still get an airdodge read punish with footstool during their air falling animation if it can work that way.
EDIT: I've been watching vids (cause I don't have the Wii in my room right now) of Kirby doing footstool combos and yeah, since he pops up a little when he does an aerial footstool, I think you're also gonna need to fastfall a sourspot nair so when you land, you still have time to jab (it looks like without the nair they'll be able to get up before you jab). I'm gonna try to test it later tonight or tomorrow with my brother.
yoshi8984
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,108
- Location
- Canada, Laval, Quebec
- NNID
- TimmyTendo
- Switch FC
- SW-6176-0583-0131
Alright, thanks for info on PS1 and PS2 ^__^
EDIT: What would be the best way to end a jab lock?
EDIT: What would be the best way to end a jab lock?
Even if someone didn't buffer an input immediately after an Air Dodge and there were a few frames of normal falling animation, it would still be difficult to land a Footstool. The reason is because if you press Jump at any time before those frames are active, then you will still Footstool off the opponent, but they will not suffer from its effects.
And, yes, you definitely have to fast-fall after a Footstool in order to land the N-air. I've only Footstooled -> N-air about a couple times over the years. It requires either extremely good prediction (predicting a jump and then intercepting with a Footstool) or an extremely good set-up (buffered reverse U-air when the opponent is about 20+%).
@yoshi8984
I end my Jab Lock with a Hammer, though an F-smash works well too. If the opponent is close to the edge you have the option of maybe jumping off with a reverse Inhale to go for that Kirbycide.
And, yes, you definitely have to fast-fall after a Footstool in order to land the N-air. I've only Footstooled -> N-air about a couple times over the years. It requires either extremely good prediction (predicting a jump and then intercepting with a Footstool) or an extremely good set-up (buffered reverse U-air when the opponent is about 20+%).
@yoshi8984
I end my Jab Lock with a Hammer, though an F-smash works well too. If the opponent is close to the edge you have the option of maybe jumping off with a reverse Inhale to go for that Kirbycide.
Vinylic.
Woke?
Or just spit him out and try to dair/bair him below stage if you think you won't be able to survive first instead of your opponent.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
D-tilt works as a jab lock hit too! I like ending a lock with D-tilt to Hammer. It takes some practice to get the timing but it works! 
Unsound_Shinobi
Smash Apprentice
Hey guys, trying to prep for a few friendlies I have coming up, I'll be playing Kirby against Olimar, I was wondering if there were any really good youtube videos, possibly tourney matches that show both characters with good players.
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Chudat vs. Logic comes to mind immediately. They've played each other multiple times.
Vinylic.
Woke?
I still like this one though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScrvMYLQJAs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScrvMYLQJAs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
little_basa
Smash Rookie
Hello! I'm new to Smashboards and for the most part pretty noob at playing Smash. However, I'm really interested in learning! I play either Kirby or Toon Link, but I think I'm leaning towards making Kirby main.
What's some moves/strategy that I should be really practicing? And is there a something I need to start with and work my way up? (I apologize if the questions sound dumb, but I am really new to this and just want to get started is all.)
Thank you!
What's some moves/strategy that I should be really practicing? And is there a something I need to start with and work my way up? (I apologize if the questions sound dumb, but I am really new to this and just want to get started is all.)
Thank you!
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Welcome good sir. The first thing you should do is read the sticky threads, which pretty much have the answers to everything you're looking for as a beginner, and even some advanced stuff. Start with that as a solid foundation.Hello! I'm new to Smashboards and for the most part pretty noob at playing Smash. However, I'm really interested in learning! I play either Kirby or Toon Link, but I think I'm leaning towards making Kirby main.
What's some moves/strategy that I should be really practicing? And is there a something I need to start with and work my way up? (I apologize if the questions sound dumb, but I am really new to this and just want to get started is all.)
Thank you!
Then, if for any reason you have some lingering questions that don't have a recorded answer, we'll all be happy to pick each others' brains for advice. Enjoy.
little_basa
Smash Rookie
Welcome good sir. The first thing you should do is read the sticky threads, which pretty much have the answers to everything you're looking for as a beginner, and even some advanced stuff. Start with that as a solid foundation.
Then, if for any reason you have some lingering questions that don't have a recorded answer, we'll all be happy to pick each others' brains for advice. Enjoy.
Sweet, thank you! Very much appreciated.
*Btw, I'm a lady.
Kappy
Smash Ace
basa, I would definitely recommend Timmy's guide to Kirby first if you can. His guide covers a lot of the basics and a few advanced techniques. After that, reading the Ask Me Anything threads alongside any of the sticky threads should be where you go next once you feel like you're getting the hang of the basics. LOL. After that, I highly recommend the video archive and watching ChuDat, Falln, Triple R, and MikeKirby. Hope that helps you get started, and welcome to the Kirby boards!
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Oh, i apologize, madam.Sweet, thank you! Very much appreciated.
*Btw, I'm a lady.
little_basa
Smash Rookie
Thank you. I've been exploring the threads and practcing some. Thank you guys for being so welcoming.
little_basa
Smash Rookie
Out of curiosity, any Kirby players from the Midwest?
Vinylic.
Woke?
You can look through here to find out.
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=92
Just a reminder, that you can't submit a thread there. Instead, use the Gamefaqs subform (which is on top) and submit it there.
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=92
Just a reminder, that you can't submit a thread there. Instead, use the Gamefaqs subform (which is on top) and submit it there.
little_basa
Smash Rookie
Sweet! I'm from Kentucky. Just seeing if anyone who played Kirby was near. :D Maybe find a mentor or something or come by any of you all at a tournament. I've already met Y.b.M before. :3
And lucky that you live in Illinois, by the way. Chicago is one of my favorite places, ever. Mister Eric and I are taking a vacation up there in August.
Triple R
Smash Lord
Correction in red.
BlindSpot
Smash Apprentice
Hi all. I have a question. My team partner uses Kirby, and I play Pikachu. So, I thought of the combo/gimp of him up throwing, and me thundering to gimp the opponent. However it didn't work. Either kirby died, or nobody died.
So, I put kirby on port 4, so he's have port priority, and it still didn't work. So, does this combo just not work? Or does the thunder have to be timed different?
So, I put kirby on port 4, so he's have port priority, and it still didn't work. So, does this combo just not work? Or does the thunder have to be timed different?
Vinylic.
Woke?
BlindSpot
Smash Apprentice
Awww
But, that thunder wall was just sick! We will try our best to put this into our games
But, that thunder wall was just sick! We will try our best to put this into our games
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
That idea sounds pretty neat! As does Vinyls vid! I would like to play around with that team combo but I have no partner at the moment.
>.<
My suggestion, BlindSpot, would be to trying to play around with Pikachu's Thunder spacing so that the lightning only hits your opponent during Kirby's U-throw. Keep in touch!
>.<
My suggestion, BlindSpot, would be to trying to play around with Pikachu's Thunder spacing so that the lightning only hits your opponent during Kirby's U-throw. Keep in touch!
SSS
Smash Ace
Okay. I think Kirby may have a short, buffered down throw chaingrab. I got to I think 4 against a CPU Fox, and I don't think you can DI out.
SSS
Smash Ace
I also think you can dthrow into dtilt. Which may lead into a jab lock? Does he have a jab lock? Or a laser lock with Falco's laser taken?