Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[falln]

poor bowser if you keep the inhale though and walk offstage with him when he breaks out you get a free footstool. bowser's footstool animation is very funny

obligatory year and a half old stone ko

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaXNfsO_STg#t=6m30s

 

[Labernash]

You were supposed to post Fire Nation.

Oh wells lololol dat was hype

 

[falln]

oh **** me i totally ****ed up

but its never too late!

now quick someone ask about air camping or some ****

 

[Labernash]

I'm glad Inhale has a wind box that pulls you in.

 

[falln]

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

So... I have an idea and am wondering if any Kirbys can help me test it cause CPUs don't DI and Wi-Fi is the only practice I have vs people since my brother Serynder doesn't live with me anymore.

Basically, as some of you may know, hit one of Kirby's fair can combo into grab if Kirby lands/cancels it right. So I've been testing something vs CPUs... It doesn't work vs some floaties, it's 5 AM and I'm too tired to test if vs everyone, but for now, I know it doesn't work on Jiggs.

Basically it's an extended f-throw starter combo. It's f-throw -> fastfall fair hit one -> f-throw -> uair. It's 30%, sometimes when I've been testing, the second hit has hit too and that makes it 33%. Cause CPus are dumb and don't DI, I have no way of testing if this is legit or not since it requires timing so Wi-Fi won't be a good way to test.

So to any Kirbys who have people to practice with offline, can you test this and see if it works? You have to time it though, if you don't time it right, it'll shield when you try to grab, or your opponent will be able to easily get out. In my testing (I only tested it for 10 mins so far though...) I've tested it vs MK and sometimes he's faired (didn't hit me though) or sometimes I've grabbed him before he's done an aerial, but I'm not sure if that's me timing it right and this is legit, or if the CPU just didn't do anything. So yeah, any Kirbys who are interested, test this out, curious if it works, I have a feeling it won't work vs MK cause he can probably just nair out, but it might work on other characters.

I'll feel really dumb if someone's already posted about this.... XD

 

[t!MmY]

I don't have time for an elaborate post, but here is a quick one with all the details:

1. The second hit of Kirby's F-air is much better to combo off of than the 1st (due to trajectory and KBGrowth). You can still combo off the 1st one, but 2nd is definitely a better option if you have the option and can time it.

2. You can try to brush off the 2nd hit of F-air by saying that they can just SDI out of it. The truth of the matter is the triple kick of F-air hits fast enough that they will not be SDI'ing out of it on reaction. If they're going to SDI the F-air, they're going to do it on the 1st hit.

3. I tried substituting the usual F-throw -> U-air combo with this F-throw -> F-air combo in an attempt to throw off the opponent's SDI timing. It doesn't do that. U-air hits on frame 10, F-air hits on frame 10; the opponent SDI's the same. You just end up dealing 3% damage with F-air instead of 10% damage with U-air.

4. None of the above means it won't work. People can be worse than computers sometimes.

 

[hyoipear]

I've actually done this a few times, just to mix up the grab combo. In those cases I've rocked the two first hits -> grab. I have no idea about how legit it is, though.

I realize this isn't so helpful. But yeah, I also think about how Kirby's fair should be able to do what MK's bair does~~~~ actually did first hit fair -> dsmash once

 

[MikeKirby]

That post is not dumb at all Poyo! I've been recently playing around with f-air and what you suggest sounds intriguing enough until you look at it specifically.

I tried substituting the usual F-throw -> U-air combo with this F-throw -> F-air combo in an attempt to throw off the opponent's SDI timing. It doesn't do that. U-air hits on frame 10, F-air hits on frame 10; the opponent SDI's the same. You just end up dealing 3% damage with F-air instead of 10% damage with U-air.

4. None of the above means it won't work. People can be worse than computers sometimes.

t!M basically explained the big flaw. I mean if you were at 0% and I grabbed you, obviously your first instinct thought will be "Oh, I gotta SDI the next hit". So in the end, I'll only get that 3% hit confirm. That's the theory but if you pull enough mix-ups so that they're not expecing it, you might be able to pull off something neat. It's worth some trail and error in my book.

While in training mode I found that f-air1 has quite a bit of combo potential beside just grab. At 40% it combos into f-tilt. It also combos into d-tilt at 40% which can cause a trip to possibly extent the combo! (All has to be buffered, though) It keep comboing into the really early 100%'s. I also managed to pull of a combo confirm from it with a f-smash, BUT I found it hard to replicate it consistantly (MK@130%).

I got excided when Hyoi mentioned d-smash cause it's 2 frames faster (I think) but couldn't pull of a hit confirm as of yet. Although, it can hit 'cause it's very unexpected.

The second hit of Kirby's F-air is much better to combo off of than the 1st (due to trajectory and KBGrowth). You can still combo off the 1st one, but 2nd is definitely a better option if you have the option and can time it.

I tried to get hit confirms off of f-air2 but I'll take your word on that one and play around with it some more~

Although, I haven't tried it in a game yet, what would happen if you used a N-air instead? It's the same damage output as U-air and has as much combo potential as f-air1. (Although, it also hits frame 10~)

Edit: Has anyone ever pulled off Kirby's footstool step-up at 0%? I've recently started practicing it and have pulled it off on wifi and some offline friendlies. I'm excited about it!

 

[hyoipear]

The thing with fair -> dsmash is, if I've got my facts straight, that you have to land so close to the opponent (practically inside of him) to allow the dsmash to connect, depending on percentage. That makes it less reliable, but y'know, that's life

Edit: Has anyone ever pulled off Kirby's footstool step-up at 0%? I've recently started practicing it and have pulled it off on wifi and some offline friendlies. I'm excited about it!

Yo, I've never heard of this! Tell me more?

 

[Kewkky]

Kirby's footstool step-up?


The only real combo that i could get with fair leading into a guaranteed grab consistently is a ledgehopped non-fastfall fair>grab when the opponent is at 0% or near that. Works on every single character. I usually grab the ledge when the opponent respawns, wait his invincibility out, regrab the ledge to get MY invincibility frames, then go in for the fair>grab. Then that grab turned into a fthrow, or bthrow>uair/bair, but those depend on what character you're fighting. If the fair misses the firts hit, I just retreat back to the ledge, and usually I go unpunished since our fair is a pretty nice spacing tool.

Granted, I'm pretty sure some beast DI could get an opponent out of the fair, but it never happened to me vs my opponents. Probably because it's usually a surprise attack.

 

[Vinylic.]

The only thing I did that surprised people is doing a dair to downb. It was a stellar moment though when I inhaled a ganondorf in the middle of the air, swallow, and then make a warlock punch, blah blah, insert "that was unexpected" attack here. Anything in this game can be possible since it depends on what and how your enemy plays and stuff since attacks the never works work.

Speaking of which, I can't really play right now since I broke my hand. I can hardly type.

 

[MikeKirby]

Kirby's footstool set-up! I'm not sure where I saw it, but here's how it goes: (@0%) u-tilt ->buffered jump -> short footstool jump -> fast fall N-air -> D-tilt -> jab1 ->jab1 etc. Yeah, it's not guaranteed and you might need 2 u-tilts for fast faller/heavy weights, but when it works it's the fanciest thing ever!!!

 

[Kewkky]

Oooohl, I remember that. The footstool jablock setup. Yeah, it wouldn't be half bad pulling it off every once in a while. Even if it's tough, it's worth practicing.

 

[MikeKirby]

Yeah, I practice that a lot in training mode cause it's a lot of fun! It's not that hard to pull off once you practice a bit. I've been meaning to try it against a Marth when he up-b's out of our gonzo combo. Read the up-b combo breaker and catch Marth in the air with a full hop D-air -> aerial footstool jab lock set up. Worth a shot, I'm still trying to practice some set-up's though. I hypothesis you can try it also on a ZSS that down-b's out of your gonzo combo if you read it.
*brainstorms*

 

[Labernash]

I like where this is going. Attempting this!

Is the nair required or is just for extra percent??

 

[MikeKirby]

Yup, the n-air is required because you need a hit as you land or they can possibly get up. Plus, n-air is a jab lock hit at low percentages. (Start N-air as soon as you can after the footstool and then fastfall.) D-tilt is required because Kirby's jab doesn't jablock until around 18% and d-tilt will always jab lock to breach that 18% criteria.

 

[Labernash]

Awesome, thanks! It'll help me do it when I know how it works. I'll try it in match tonight without warning lololol!! First try Wednesday!

 

[hyoipear]

That's amazing, yo. I'm so learning this!

 

[falln]

not only does kirby lack a way to force a footstool outside of doubles but kirby even with FF nair is too slow to reach whoever you footstooled to force the reset. **** doesn't work at all

/breaker of bubbles

 

[Vinylic.]

Argument post.

Anything in this game can be possible since it depends on what and how your enemy plays and stuff since attacks that never works work.

Anything in this game can be possible since it depends on what and how your enemy plays and stuff since attacks that never works work.

it depends

since attacks that never works work.

Nothing is impossible, just hard to perform.

 

[falln]

really big text doesn't support much. if the point of this is to come up with theory combos then ok im going to suggest to fthrow to ground hammer at 60 because its possible they'll get hit and it depends on how the opponent plays.

or we can do each other a favor and toss the ideas that don't actually bear fruit and focus on things that are feasible in a competitive setting

 

[Labernash]

Well the opponent has to jump, I think. Kinda if you were to preform an inhale>footstool. I think some characters CAN be footstooled, like when dair>footstool happens. Which, as Falln said, isn't necessarily FORCED but maybe SUGGESTED by Kirby, for lack of a better word. Jumping is to be expected when someone is in a utilt string, too. *Kirby CAN get the footstool on everyone, but it's about the spacing of both characters out of inhale is why some footstool Kirby instead.* Some he may not be able to at all, but you can still get that weird "footstool boost jump" think.

As far as them being out of reach, you can move closer to them during the attack, like facing right :stick2: > :stick3: or :stick2: > :abutton: (nair) > :stick3: maybe. Then, I think there is enough time from landing nair to tiptoe grab them.

Who knows! * = theory craft

 

[falln]

the problem isnt that they drift horizontally or anything like that.

between the time of kirby footstooling the opponent and hitting them with the fast fall nair, the opponent has had time to use any of his or her get up options.

what this also means is that even if your opponent has downs and decided to lie on the ground for an extra bit of time so the nair connects, the opponent still retains all of his or her get up options so at best you're trading a guaranteed 12% from fresh bair and its potential followups to a situational 4% with a tech chase scenario where kirby doesnt even run fast enough or cover enough space to punish most characters get up options on reaction

 

[Labernash]

Oh, I thought you meant they were out of grab range after the nair. *Edit: after re-reading, your post clearly says too far away for the nair to hit. I was a fool.* I guess from what you are saying, the best way for this to work is if the nair can hit them out of the footstool falling animation, not sitting on the ground. Well, I doubt that happens because Kirby jumps pretty high after.

Maybe if they buffer an upwards input trying to jump and when they hit the ground they stand up and get by the nair but lololol

Edit: on the post above, you said they still have their getup options after the nair, but if nair is a jablock hit, it wouldn't be so. The nair then dtilt then jab should all be jablocked, according MikeKirby's post.

 

[falln]

if the very first jablock hit isn't within the initial frames of the opponent hitting the ground, then the opponent will retain all getup options regardless of whatever hits you do afterwards

 

[Labernash]

Oh okay, didn't know that! That would explain why I mess up jablocks sometimes, because I start too slow I guess.

If it's working for MikeKirby, that's the only proof in favor of it, I guess. I'll put some test time in, paying attention to what you have said, Falln. No harm in checking, I guess!

Even if that doesn't work, utilt > footstool> FF bair like you said is still pretty hype!

 

[MikeKirby]

I never mentioned that the footstool set-up was guaranteed. Very few things are guaranteed in this game. The speed at which a character falls to the ground differs from character to character. Plus, chances are you'll never use this on MK for obvious reasons. I also mentioned an extra u-tilt might be required heavy/fast fallers to get them at the right height. To my experience, there's a certain height where the footstool to fast falled n-air is guaranteed. There's a lot of experience needed to know when and how to utilize it but success comes from learning from your failures. Yeah, this technique requires a good read. It's not much different than punishing a mid-air jump from Kirby's Gonzo with a rising u-air. The only difference is that there are a lot of options that the opponent has before you can set this up which requires that one good read. Does it require a bit of luck? Yeah, maybe, but luck is a matter of preparation meeting opportunity. I've only begun to use this option so I don't know much of the raw details. Although, I do know that once N-air hits it's jab-locks away~

The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
-Winston Churchill

 

[falln]

 

[hyoipear]

I cosign to Mike's post.

Edit: and falln's post

 

[t!MmY]

I don't see pessimism in Falln's posts, I see that he has a lot of experience playing Kirby.

U-tilt does not give Kirby enough frame advantage to initiate a jump and reach the opponent high enough to execute a Footstool. Since Kirby is under the opponent and initializing the jump AND has frame disadvantage, the opponent can execute a Footstool of their own and it's Kirby that ends up getting Footstooled.

More importantly, this is a 'safe option' because even if the Kirby player predicts the opponent's Footstool and does not jump into it, he still does not get to retaliate with a counter attack. The opponent just jumps away and defeats all of Kirby's options. (Note that this can still put characters that have 'poor air options' into a disadvantageous position - i.e. Snake, Ganondorf, etc - but that's why U-tilt is awesome).

If you want a guaranteed 'combo' into a Footstool you'll have to look a little harder, but Kirby does have one.

 

[Labernash]

How many extra frames does it take to shield while crouching versus just standing or walking?

Do moves stale when hitting a shield?

 

[Kewkky]

Hitting a shield doesn't stale any moves. Actually causing damage to a character/item/stage prop/projectile/whatever does, though.

As for the frame count of crouch>shield over just shield... Can't say. Still getting used to navigating the website, and my internet is sloooow, so I can't get you the answer right now. Sorry.

 

[Labernash]

Thanks Kewkky! That helps!

And that's okay!

 

[falln]

theres no difference in crouch shield to just shield except that you actually have a few more frames of leniency for power shielding if you do it from crouching. its very helpful

 

[Labernash]

You have no idea how hype that makes me. Thanks Falln!

 

[SSS]

Fthrow to Uair to Grab on some characters? I've done this before and it seems to work. Does it legitimately work on people other than Fox?

 

[falln]

pretty much every character should be able to get out after the uair. fast falling characters like falco and fox and cf without proper DI you can grab again and its disgusting how many high level players can't be bothered to DI out kirbys ****.

if they don't DI the uair then fthrow uair dthrow utilt uair bair is my personal favorite against falco

 

[Kekezo]

So... I'm not very familiar with all the acronyms and stuff, but how do I get the ground side B attack to work? It's incredibly easy to dodge, and the only time I land it well is when I play with items and they're immobile for some reason. (Ex: Pitfall)

 

[falln]

if you shield all the hits (including the star) of dededes up b landing hit box you can ground hammer out of shield
you can punish stuff like marth's up b with it if theres no platform for him to land on
you can have your partner set you up for it with a grab release if its doubles
the other day at one of mike's smashfests i killed his ice climbers with it at 60 on the platform on yoshi's by reading a down air and moving to the side and ground hammer their landing lab

pretty much if you're close enough and the opponent uses something very laggy you can punish with it otherwise you would have to rely on a pretty strong read but in that scenario its not something you would want to frequently go for