Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[fromundaman]

Bair is the best.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's Uair. Bair takes longer to end.

 

[Triple R]

So i looked in the amazing guide. and for cool down it has 40 for upair and 41 for bair. So i guess upair would be better. Because it's just what move ends the quickest right? So by one frame uair is better. Which is good because i usually accidently do uair since i'm DIing up and just do an uair, i just have to make sure i fastfall it then.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Not to mention that if you use Bair, unless it's with the c-stick, you end up di-ing toward the blastzone you're being sent at.

 

[yoichX]

Whats momentium cancling

 

[~Shao~]

It's when you use an aerial to reduce the momentum from when you're hit and sent off-stage.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Also, after using Uair to slow yourself down, use repeated hammers to lengthen the path you fall in case you get knocked back, so you don't lose all of your jumps.

 

[~Shao~]

Be careful about using hammer to come back on-stage. It carries phantom lag (aproximately 0,5s worth of lag), and you'll get punished hard for it at higher percentages.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

True, but Tater edge game is 2nd to the #1, so he always has time to SHHFL some nair before re-joining the game.

 

[Triple R]

as a rule of thumb, i personally don't use hammer to recover unless i only have like one jump left. the phantom lag WILL be punished by a smart opponent. Don't use hammer...

 

[fromundaman]

as a rule of thumb, i personally don't use hammer to recover unless i only have like one jump left. the phantom lag WILL be punished by a smart opponent. Don't use hammer...

This.

I mean, sometimes I have to, but I REALLY try not to, especially since we have nothing we can really B-reverse for safe landings (Oh B-reversed fireballs, how I do miss thee...).

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Alright I'll ask a quick question, anyone have seen/used Fast Stone to kill opponents that planks? If yes how was it performed, what stage, and when was this done. If no.... I guess I have no answer to that. ☆

☆ The reason I ask is that Fast Rock make the Stone animation go faster but only when your near the edge of anything, and will it do anything for characters that does very well with planking. I understand if no one used Fast Stone since Stone is not used very often. ☆

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I can answer this one.

The "Fast Rock" technique is done by setting your controller's C-stick to specials instead of smashes. While running, just before reaching the ledge, you can hit down on the C-stick to initiate the grounded Stone (which has a faster animation than the aerial), and the little momentum you had during the transformation pushes you off the ledge, so you fall immediately, giving your opponent little chance to avoid it.

But you have to adjust your controller setting to do this, which can be very inconvenient for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Triple R]

The "Fast Rock" technique is done by setting your controller's C-stick to specials instead of smashes. While running, just before reaching the ledge, you can hit down on the C-stick to initiate the grounded Stone.

But you have to adjust your controller setting to do this, which can be very inconvenient for a multitude of reasons.

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no, and many more nos

You do not have to change your c-stick to specials. This can be done with the default settings. It is harder for sure. The way i do it is by running to the ledge doing down b and then quickly pushing the analog stick the direction of the ledge again. I like to think of it as wave bouncing the rock, but I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening. When this was discovered I practiced it and I could do over 50% of the time, in training mode with no distractions that is.

I remember when this first was discovered everyone said you need c-stick specials, and apparently that false message still lives on today. ..........


Edit: Oh yeah about viper's question. I've never actually seen anyone do this in a match at all. I admit I gave up on it, but maybe i'll practice it again. The only planking type character i could see this working against is toon link off the top of my head. They like to drop down and pull out bombs from the ledge. Maybe you could get a surprise stage spike with it! :D

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Well ex-CUUUUSSEE me, princess!

But I didn't think it could be done without resetting the C-stick, but it's kinda a useless AT anyway, very circumstantial, and a pain to pull off

 

[yoichX]

whats the ninja spike??

 

[fromundaman]

☆ Alright I'll ask a quick question, anyone have seen/used Fast Stone to kill opponents that planks? If yes how was it performed, what stage, and when was this done. If no.... I guess I have no answer to that. ☆

☆ The reason I ask is that Fast Rock make the Stone animation go faster but only when your near the edge of anything, and will it do anything for characters that does very well with planking. I understand if no one used Fast Stone since Stone is not used very often. ☆

Well, what characters did you have in mind? I can tell you right now it won't work on MK if that's what you were thinking (Uair will hit you before you even get to the edge).

I can answer this one.

The "Fast Rock" technique is done by setting your controller's C-stick to specials instead of smashes. While running, just before reaching the ledge, you can hit down on the C-stick to initiate the grounded Stone (which has a faster animation than the aerial), and the little momentum you had during the transformation pushes you off the ledge, so you fall immediately, giving your opponent little chance to avoid it.

But you have to adjust your controller setting to do this, which can be very inconvenient for a multitude of reasons.

Ahem... Not to be a ****, but weren't you complaining earlier about people not reading the entire post? That explained how to do the AT (Kinda), not how to use it to beat planking

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Ok, he has me there, but I read the whole thing, I simply forgot respond to that, though I think it's use against plankers wouldn't need my explanation.

whats the ninja spike??

The "Ninja Spike" (where'd we get the name anyway) Is done by using your Final Cutter (Up-B) into an opponents recovery attack (like Marth or Toon Link, which is very easy to predict), so that you get hit by their attack and are hit slightly upward, while they plummet from the momentum of your Final Cutter. Very good against Diddy when you time it right.

 

[fromundaman]

So you thought the actual question didn't require an answer? XD

Also... that's not what the Ninja-spike is... lol.


Check this thread for info on it (This link is in the OP of this thread btw...): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224892


This thread page has been all fail...

 

[Pete434]

I need some advice on the DK matchup plz

 

[TaterSalad0811]

They have a thread for that, here

And excuse me, princess, for not being able to accurately memorize the names of rarely used Kirby ATs.

 

[fromundaman]

That one's not that rare... but anyway... in the future, you may want to check up on it before giving out info. I mean, we have this stuff in the first post of this very thread!

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Is Kirby's Mach Tornado just as gay as MK's?

I just think its smaller.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

It is, in fact, if not gayer, seeing as it has higher priority than MK's 'nado.

Makes a perfect counter to when he tries to pull a fast 'nado. I love using it, though the only issue is getting the power and keeping it.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

I see.

Another stupid question: is Bthrow and Fthrow still escapable at early percents?

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I don't use b-throw, but F-throw IS escapeable with some chars. if they have perfect timing, but that's assuming you're using the [F-throw>U-air>Pivot U-Tilt>B-air>Improvise] combo

Heavier chars can be hit with a grab following the u-tilt, but the combo listed works about as consistently as it gets in Brawl.

 

[~Shao~]

I think he meant escapable like in Melee, where they could escape during the throw animation. And the answer is no.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Oh. Yeah, when me and my buddy dust off the old mini-disc, that always bugs me. He used Fox years before we knew about this site, and I think it's just because he looked up "Who is the best character in super smash brothers melee?" on google.

 

[fromundaman]

Tater, no offense, but you don't play in tournaments, do you?

Kirby's tornado WOULD be as gay as MK's if only he didn't have to fight against MK to get it. Tornado is in general a bad move vs MK, in both the ditto and the Kirby MU since all of MK's moves practically have transcendant priority as well as good range. This basically means that against both nados, he just slashes right through it. Against Kirby it's even worse, since if you hit MK with it, he can sweetspot Nair you right out of it. That's right, we get punished for landing the move. We also get punished for taking his power (He Dairs us out of the swallow animation).


The only advantage is since it moves faster than we normally do, it can help for recovering against him.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Tater, no offense, but you don't play in tournaments, do you?

Kirby's tornado WOULD be as gay as MK's if only he didn't have to fight against MK to get it. Tornado is in general a bad move vs MK, in both the ditto and the Kirby MU since all of MK's moves practically have transcendant priority as well as good range. This basically means that against both nados, he just slashes right through it. Against Kirby it's even worse, since if you hit MK with it, he can sweetspot Nair you right out of it. That's right, we get punished for landing the move. We also get punished for taking his power (He Dairs us out of the swallow animation).


The only advantage is since it moves faster than we normally do, it can help for recovering against him.

^^^ I agree with this. I go to tournaments frequently and whenever I have the MK MU I'd rather not get him inside my mouth unless I'm facing the stage but close enough to the edge to fall off and spit him under the stage. If you get the tornado power chances are you aren't going to keep it long and even if you have it, it's more flashy than useful.

 

[Kewkky]

Is Kirby's Mach Tornado just as gay as MK's?

I just think its smaller.

It can be used just as gay as MK's, but since it's smaller people can escape it easier, and knockKirby out of it easier as well... It's a worse version of MK's, but can still be used in every way MK's can.

I see.

Another stupid question: is Bthrow and Fthrow still escapable at early percents?

Nope, bthrow and fthrow aren't escapable in Brawl (thank God). You can bthrow and fthrow in peace knowing this...

In Brawl, there's a combo known as fthrow>uair, where you do an fthrow, then uair immediately when you're able to move, all at very low %s (recommended near 0%). It's inescapable! It can string to other moves as well, like another grab (very rare), a turn-around utilt (recommended), or an ftilt... So, fthrow in peace without worrying about your opponents escaping!

 

[Tiersie]

It is, in fact, if not gayer, seeing as it has higher priority than MK's 'nado.

Makes a perfect counter to when he tries to pull a fast 'nado. I love using it, though the only issue is getting the power and keeping it.

Dude this and the few questions above that you tried to answer all contain a LOT of false information. Kirby nado, while fun to use and really applicable sometimes, can be countered as easily as a simple flick of the cstick downwards by the opposing MK.

You do however move faster than MK in his nado, and something I have great fun doing is spacing the nado so that it only hits once or twice, the MK won't be carried far enough to hit with dair and when Nado ends we can often use the lag the MK gets from landing with a dair to fsmash him in the face.

Edit: Fromundaman beat me to this quite hard. I have to confess that I was a little aggravated after seeing all those false answers and so immediately posting before reading the rest of the thread.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Sorry, I just use past experience, I'm not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be, but I try (and apparently fail), though my nados always seem to break MK's. Maybe he just staled it or something. Whatever, I'll stop posting here if it bugs you guys that much.

 

[~Shao~]

It's not that Tater. Just do some research if you're not 100% sure. Or do it like me, if you're not sure about it, don't post :D

 

[TaterSalad0811]

That's not a half bad idea, but i lieks to post

 

[Technodeath]

i mainly lurk around here, for the sole reason of me not knowing too much about Kirby at the moment. so i'm just sitting back and learning

 

[fromundaman]

Tater, I like your enthusiasm, but if you're not sure, you have to do research. No answer is more helpful than a false one.

Or hell, if you like to post, just post somewhere where people who might know the answer would look, if they don't look in here.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Don't totally understand that last part, but w/e I'll do a bit more research myself from now on. Yay.

 

[Rawnie]

I have a few questions.

Does Kirby have and moves safe on block aside from spaced B-air?

I've heard about Kirby have some sort of swallow > footstool offstage on Sheik. Does this work on other characters?

OoS options? N-air maybe? :<

Counter picks? I heard he's good on Delfino....

Does angling F-smash up or down make it stronger by chance? I've heard angling it up does, but I'm not sure.

 

[Kewkky]

Does Kirby have and moves safe on block aside from spaced B-air?

Let's see...

Ftilt is safe on block for the most part when properly spaced, meaning that unless the opponent has some crazy range like tethers do, they won't reach you. Dtilt is safe on block versus some of the characters, due to Kirby being too small for others' OoS options to reach. Aerial sideB is another safe option due to the huge knockback it has, opponents shielding usually slide too far to do anything to Kirby if you hit a shield.

Apart from those, all the other moves don't have the range to be safe on shield, no matter how much I'd want to make a list of "but's".

I've heard about Kirby have some sort of swallow > footstool offstage on Sheik. Does this work on other characters?

Yes it does, actually! We are proud of our inhale for that sole reason, we can 0>death lots of characters if they try to break out, and gain a huge lead boost because of it! I hope nobody minds, but to make it easier for you I'll post here the list one of our members put together:

Finally, we have inhale breaks. Those of you who aren’t in the backroom might be wondering why in the hell I would even mention this, as how can having an enemy escape an inhale ever be a good thing? Well friends, there are some fun and interesting things that can happen out of an inhale break, which we shall now talk about (Also, none of what I’m about to mention works for D3’s inhale breaks or inhale breaks with D3’s power.).
On certain characters, Kirby can get a footstool on his opponents when they break out of inhale in the air, provided that Kirby is not moving in a horizontal direction and that the opponent DIs a certain way. This is quite simply amazing since it means that some characters simply cannot avoid dying if they get inhaled then brought offstage (they get FSed if they try to break out, or risk buffering an aerial if we starshot them, which on certain characters will kill them no matter what they buffer, or they get Kirbicided). Of course, a meager footstool won’t kill them by itself unless you managed to fall pretty close to the blastzones. However, I have also found that on every character, we can follow a footstool with a FF Dair which itself can be followed up by another footstool (FS>FF Dair>FS will kill on every legal stage by the way, unless there is a floor of some kind in the way.).
I have compiled a list of all the characters that this does and doesn’t work on, along with which way they have to DI, though more testing is required for this, as I have not had time to test every character (nor do I think I ned to, as for some characters it is pretty obvious what happens.). Anyway… enough rambling. here’s the list:


Characters that I KNOW FS Kirby:

-MK
-DK (Yeah, I know, this one surprised me too)
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach (though she can be FSed if she doesn't try to FS us.)
-Kirby (the inhaled Kirby seems to get the footstool)
-Olimar (Awww... it was too good to be true.)
-Samus

Characters that get FSd unless they DI away from Kirby (which, in most cases, is away from the stage as well.):

-Fox
-Falco (he can avoid being FSed if he doesn't DI and mashes jump. If he doesn't mash jump, or DIs towards the stage (AKA tries to recover), he gets FSed.)
-Wolf (He gets FSed unless he DIs away from Kirby. If Kirby has his back to the stage, then Wolf would have to DI away from the stage, and as a result cannot recover.)
-Shiek
-Ganon (Same as Wolf)
-ZSS (She can also DownB or UpB to avoid being FSed, but she doesn't recover either way, unless maybe if she is within UpB range of the stage. She is also one of the easiest to inhale gay since it is so easy to inhale her out of her recovery, since, as good as it is, it's very easy to predict her trajectory.)
-Bowser (His hurtbox is kind of weird though, so you actually have to start trying to FS earlier than it looks like you should.)
-Snake (Mash jump. If he doesn't DI away, it will result in a footstool. If he does DI away, he can't Bomb jump. Since that counts as a grab release, inhale breaks don't give back his cypher either. Basically, he gets screwed. Also, you need to be moving forward very slightly while he's in your mouth to get the FS.)
-Ike (I remember testing him, but didn't record the results, so I don't remember exactly how you have to DI to get the FS, but if I remember correctly, you had to move forward slightly before he breaks out, then the only way he can avoid the footstool is to DI away, which leaves him unable to recover.)

Characters that either FS Kirby or neither one gets FSd:

-Lucario
-TL (almost certain he FSs us)
-Diddy
-Yoshi (Someone, I think it was Viper, has also told me that Yoshi FSs Kirby, so I’m pretty sure this one is correct, though I haven’t personally tested it.)
-Marth (I’m pretty much certain this ****er FSs us… as if he didn’t have enough on us already…)
-G&W (Same as Marth)
-Ness
-Lucas
-Luigi
-Peach
-Wario
-Zelda
-ROB (He only FSs us if we try to chase him for the FS. otherwise, neither gets a FS.)
-Pit
-ICs
-Jigglypuff
-Squirtle
-Ivysaur (see Olimar)
-Mewtwo (Don’t feel bad. He’s so broken he FSs everyone out of a FS, and he can even get a Dtilt on you out of it somehow. He’s just that broken.)


Characters that I think can be FSd if you follow DI:

-Pikachu
-Sonic (see above)
-D3 (He can escape by doing his UpB.)
-Link
-CF (Maybe? Having a hard time figuring this one out.)
-Charizard (See above)

OoS options? N-air maybe? :<

No, you shouldn't sue ti as an OoS option. You're commited to that move for over a full second, that's more than 60 frames! Better OoS options would be an ftilt, utilt, bair, or a retreating fair (if the opponents' move ended in him/her landing near you). Recommended OoS options you say? Well, they're all very good, with bair and ftilt being your best bets as safe reactions.

Counter picks? I heard he's good on Delfino....

Kirby doesn't really do bad on any stage (save maybe the stages opponents do better than him in, like Snake on Halberd), so it all comes down to personal preference. I would suggest platformed stages since we can pressure fairly well and land safe away from our opponents, and stages with bottom blast-zones were we can dair spike them into or footstool them down to their deaths. Battlefield and Smashville are my personal choice for starters, while Delfino, Brinstar, PS1, Frigate Orpheon and Rainbow Cruise are good Kirby counterpick stages.

Does angling F-smash up or down make it stronger by chance? I've heard angling it up does, but I'm not sure.

Angling fsmash up makes it stronger and does more %, so your info is right. It also alters the trajectory of where your opponent should be flying off to, to a very hard-to-DI direction (diagonally up, meaning DI will have almost no effect). Angling fsmash down makes it do less damage, but the trajectory is altered to a close-to-horizontal one, where it's goot to setup for gimps near ledges (yes, near ledges, because fsmashing down-angled will definitely get punished, and doing so while pushing the opponents' shield over the edge if you hit a shield, means there will be no counterattack, THUS a safe-on-shield option).

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Wow... I just read that whole thing. Good stuff Kewkk.