KGD - The Kewkky Thread! - Kirby's Wasteland: Dead Social

[Sage JoWii]

http://allisbrawl.com/chat.aspx?r=2

I'm on for a bit people.

 

[Sage JoWii]

As a rule of thumb versus Yoshi: Except as a mix-up, don't attack when you think Yoshi will be vulnerable.

Chances are he isn't. You just think he is. Wait til he's committed to an attack, and missed, to punish.

Except as a mix-up, don't bother trying to gimp or edgegaurd him; there's just no point when you could just let him get back on stage where we beat him.

Learn to rising BAir on reaction.

If he's running away, it's because he wants to pivot grab. He doesn't need space between you to be good or win, he just wants you to close the distance.

Lastly, he's charging that smash. He's always charging the smash.

These are the things I was reminded of when I played a good Yoshi today, that I had learned also while playing Polt.

 

[Kmatt]

Yoshi analysis

Yoshi is one of those MUs that screws me over not because it's necessarily difficult, but because I can never remember what I'm "supposed" to do. It's actually pretty fun.

Darn it, I need to find my disc.

 

[Asdioh]

Idk what everyone is talking about when it comes to lag. I've probably played 50 matches of Brawl over the last few days and out of all of them, 3 had lag; 2 of them from people in different countries, and 1 from a 2v2.

I mean, I notice a small hint of lag, and there'll be a moment or two where I feel it barely, but for the most part I don't notice any lag.

The lag isn't terrible, but there's a huge difference between offline, and you can't expect to play exactly the way you do offline.

I also tend to input the weirdest things due to wifi, making my character do completely not what I wanted. Sometimes that turns out well, usually it ends up with me getting punished.

These are the things I was reminded of when I played a good Yoshi today, that I had learned also while playing Polt.

Who was it? I played a good yoshi recently but I forgot their name hehe
started with a Z i think



Also, what do you guys think about fighting Lucas? What the hell do you do? I played FAE on there, and I'm pretty sure he's one of the best Lucas players, but my gog I couldn't do anything with Lucas just flying left and right all over the freaking screen.

 

[MikeKirby]

Haha, I love facing FAE! I have never encountered another Lucas player like him! Basically just stop running after him (to an extent). It takes a while to set up his long distance wave bounce. Try to notice when he is trying to pull it off. After a while, you'll get a feel for his trajectory and you'll learn to intercept him. I really like his ingenuity. That's just a little tidbit I learned from playing him. I'm surprised other Lucas players don't emulate him.

 

[Sage JoWii]

I played FAE a lot offline while we were in the same StL crew. Lucas is very fun to play, and his is super flashy and cool to watch, but when it comes down to it, it's still Lucas and if you know the MU you should win if you're not getting outplayed.

(I can beat his Lucas with Kirby, but I haven't tried my TL since it got better. He also has a Pit he's picking up.)

@Asdioh - Ya, his name begins with a Z with a ebvyn somewhere in it. With Lucas, you need to let him come to you. Don't chase him if he's running away on the ground because he just wants to pivot grab you. Offstage, unless you're RIGHT AT THE EDGE, and he's MORE THAN DOUBLE JUMP SPACE away, don't bother edgegaurding/gimping because it won't work; he also has to be below stage level in order to be able to do anything.

Tl;dr- Seriously, just stand at the edge and try to Kirbicide him, and fight towards that goal. I'm serious, that's how I beat him.

 

[MikeKirby]

You played FAE offline, Jowii??? I'm JEALOUS!! >.<

Haha, I'll meet some of ya tomorrow if the wifi date is still on. That or if someone decides to share some of my bandwidth...

 

[Sage JoWii]

I played with FAE every Tuesday for almost a year. I don't lose to Lucas because of him.

Kid sucks in doubles though. I carry him so hard.

 

[A1lion835]

I'm up and heading to the AiB free chat soon. Crossing my fingers for the disc errors...

 

[Sage JoWii]

A1 kribicided me.

I was a bit mad, no lie.

I beat him with Zelda.

No longer mad.

 

[Vinylic.]

Kirbycide has a bit of salt if someone else does it instead of you.
But honestly, kirbycides on melee are only good.

On brawl, it's just killing yourself unless the other player successfully get out but dies anyway and then you float back to safety.
It feels better to just dair, Bair, and fair the enemy to end him/her.

 

[A1lion835]

Played friendlies for about an hour with JoWii (see: above) and a random Olimar. Lost most of the games, but overall it wasn't so bad. I had trouble working out bad habits, and while I was working on them I had trouble reading...and then I had more trouble once I got frustrated that I wasn't reading well. *johns* Oh well.

It was good to play again, though (as JoWii saw) I'd forgotten a lot of stuff. LIKE HOW YOU DI ALL OF ZELDA'S MULTI-HIT MOVES D:<

 

[Sage JoWii]

Zelda beats Snake. I just proved it. Same guy I beat with my Kirby twice, and then lost with my TL, I just beat with my Zelda.

 

[Asdioh]

Last night I played against a dude named Salem who exclusively played purple Samus, for about an hour or so. He was probably the best Samus I've ever seen, and also the campiest. He spent almost the entire time running away, and had camping down to an art form. No matter which character I chose, it was inevitably a long, slow, painful defeat for me. I won like, maybe a couple games, with one of them being with Kirby, where I killed him half a second before I lost my last stock myself. Yeah, I mostly ended up getting hit by projectiles and comboed (I didn't realize Samus had some combos) when up close. I'd probably do much better offline, where I can actually avoid projectiles, but man it was kinda frustrating. He's good though so oh well. I just need to practice moar.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Salem is like...top 5 ZSSamus right now. It's not too surprising to find out he has a Samus.

 

[Vinylic.]

Best samus but the campiest?
A long, slow, painful defeat.

Asdioh, was that sarcasm when you said "best"?
Because the best samus I've seen has made a match more quicker than that.

 

[Asdioh]

no, he was really good. it was just, painful.

also, i discovered that i still get ***** by random diddy kongs. they all seem to play the same, yet I can't do anything about it, even when i know what they're going to do. ;_;
blame wifi, obv

 

[Asdioh]

can anybody direct me to some recent pro kirby vs diddy matches? I need to LEARN.

 

[Sage JoWii]

There aren't any.

;D

 

[Asdioh]

but why not?

 

[~automatic]

Because I barely ever play against a Diddy.

 

[Vinylic.]

Well someone should.
Maybe I will.

 

[Kmatt]

If you can master the art of catching bananas, and not staying on the ground much, it works out pretty well.

Offstage, Diddy has very few windows of opportunity for a painless recovery, you can Bair him all day long until he's set up for a Dair.

 

[Asdioh]

I fail miserably while trying to gimp people on wifi. It often ends up with me dying, if things go wrong.
I also get hit by Diddy's side B on wifi a ton.

Man, I should really pick up a top tier character but I hate all of them, and Kirby and Fox are so much more fun to play.


I can catch bananas sometimes, but I just don't know what to do with them. By design, Diddy has a lot more use for his bananas (as well as an amazing dash attack to pick them up with) and Diddys also get 1000% more practice with bananas than non-diddy players.

I dunno, my Kirby just sucks against people I can't play aggressively against, and Diddy's one of those characters that requires waiting, and waiting, and it's supremely boring. x_x
and tripping is obnoxious as all hell but that's another story


edit with old-as-dirt tinypic gifs:

asdioh combo hue hue hue

 

[Sage JoWii]

Sweet jesus I just played a very good Marth named raytay. My Kirby went even with his Marth and it was nerve-racking, nail-biting, fighting-for-every-inch matches. I forgot how much you have to change up what you're doing when you play Marth.


If Marth is moving forward, he's going to keep moving forward through you and it's better to just air dodge through him, or wait 'til he commits to a FAir before SHBAir (from below), or FFBAir (from above).

If Marth doesn't have forward momentum, 'dance' above him with your jumps and bait a smash. If he dash>USmash, dodge into him and FF so while he's stuck in his lag you can punish. If he pivot grabs, wait for it and punish with BAir. If he jumps, you jump; and move away because it's best not to outright challenge Marth - instead you want to wait til he commits.


When Marth is dashing at you, you have a few options to choose from AND YOU NEED TO MIX THEM UP:

- Either run at him and roll past him. <---reset

- SHAirDodge at him and then FFDrift back to feint an aerial approach, or

- SHAirDodge through him and create space <---reset

- Jump! and jump up and over with BAir covering your ***. <--- reset

- Run in and shieldgrab <--- this option will scare Marth away from the front ground approach and push the battle in an aerial direction

- Shield <---If you roll past him afterwards and move to create space, depending on what attack he did, this might be ok. It also might be the worst decision ever. Double-edged sword, best avoided.

-Spotdodge <---Also a double edged sword for the same reasons above.


If you miss a grab, miss an attack, airdodge too close to Marth, land to close to Marth, or generally put yourself in a position where you think Marth will hit you, FTILT!!!! FTilt will save your *** in this MU.

A good bread and butter combo is RARBAir>FTilt, or simply BAir>FTilt.

Two things that will help you in this match-up without having to know anything else is that FTilt will cover your *** on the ground level, and UTilt will save you when he's over you.

FAir, AerialHammer, USmash and Rock are NOT to be used in this match-up, with the exception of using FAir rarely as a mix-up instead of BAir when Marth approachs, and you are already in a mix-up of meeting Marth aggressively in the air (which you shouldn't do 'less you're above him and even then it's risky).

I haven't really said anything about UAir, but it's useful when he's a double-jump length above you and you can read him before committing to UAir. Alternative if Marth is less than a double jumps length away from you, you could use UAir as a mix-up (a mix-up for when you do NOT challenging his descent upon you, which is what you should do because you could instead read him and either a) spotdodge>UTilt b) pivot grab on his DAir or c) run like hell and reset <--best option).


Lastly, and probably most importantly, CHANGE YOUR RECOVERY FROM OFFSTAGE. If Marth is waiting patiently on-stage, DON'T LAND ON STAGE. Don't even bother trying to go over him. Simply put, he's too fast. Just grab the ledge. Then comes the hard part:

- Press forward to do a simple get-up. <---You just started another layer of yomi where you have to get away from the edge, or create distance between you and Marth by going through, over, or around him. <--my favorite because I love yomi layers and am pretty good at it, giving you the options to: roll, shield, airdodge through, FTilt, FSmash, jump away from, jumps up, jump towards. <---gives you the most control.

-Roll get-up <---same as above but isn't as good because being in the roll is dangerous.

-Fall away from the stage <----reset

-Fall down and UpB <--- reset with the possibility of hitting Marth, which would create a window to get off the ledge but requires DIing the UpB and reading Marth's edgegaurd attempt.

-Utilize jumps <--- puts you in a very dangerous position because you're, not intentionally but nonetheless, aggressively approaching Marth <--- probably the riskiest option.

You generally want to recover high because being at or below stage level means you're at a disadvantage.

If Marth comes out to meet you, simply use your jumps intelligently to avoid the attack and get back on stage. Once you've avoided the attack, create distance.

If Marth comes out with SHFAir and DOESN'T HAVE FORWARD MOMENTUM AFTERWARDS, he's still dangerous because he still has the option to touch back on the ground and U/D/FSmash or D/FAir.

Tl;dr- Create Distance. Don't Challenge. Mix it up A LOT. Feint often and avoid even more often.

 

[Asdioh]

I mostly agree with that. I'd say Fair is a pretty good move to use often, though. Don't use it much when he's in the air, his own Fair will beat yours. It's good at punishing his dodges though, especially on the ground.
Upsmash has it's occasional uses too, and hammer... meh. And yeah, Rock's almost never going to be a good idea in this matchup.

Kirby's Uair is also a very legit move, I find myself using a lot lately.

Actually Jowii, I'd say don't use Dair in this matchup. He can beat it with... probably uair, utilt, and upsmash when he's below you, or he can simply walk away and punish your landing (which is what people always try, or should try, to do when kirby is trying to land)

Also, Kirby's UpB on the ledge is hella risky against marth since marth can Dolphin Slash it. I learned this one a long time ago.

 

[Sage JoWii]

I mostly agree with that. I'd say Fair is a pretty good move to use often, though. Don't use it much when he's in the air, his own Fair will beat yours. It's good at punishing his dodges though, especially on the ground.
Upsmash has it's occasional uses too, and hammer... meh. And yeah, Rock's almost never going to be a good idea in this matchup.

Kirby's Uair is also a very legit move, I find myself using a lot lately.

Actually Jowii, I'd say don't use Dair in this matchup. He can beat it with... probably uair, utilt, and upsmash when he's below you, or he can simply walk away and punish your landing (which is what people always try, or should try, to do when kirby is trying to land)

Also, Kirby's UpB on the ledge is hella risky against marth since marth can Dolphin Slash it. I learned this one a long time ago.

I use DAir when Marth is on the ledge and I hover within edge get-up range, and SHDAir when I think he's going to get up. So, in other words, I too do not DAIR; I SHDAir.

I don't like FAir because it doesn't outrange his aerials, or beat them in priority.

Also, I should amend the UpB stuff to, include "Don't use while he's right on the ledge, or within DS range. It's good if you think he's going to use a Smash/Tilt/DB/grab.

 

[WindMajor]

I haven't used Kirby in so long.

 

[MK26]

Such a quiet, lonely place...
(second post-blackout post)

 

[MikeKirby]

Darn it you beat me to it!!
I was at work all day I missed the "blackout".

 

[Asdioh]

HEY MK26 LET'S TALK ABOUT KIRBY

I need to be better with Kirby. Like, when I play people that have mastered (insert character here) they are able to reduce my potential actions and then predict from there. For example, they hit me with ____ move, and from there they know I can only airdodge or aerial or something. Then they punish, and that results in what are known as "combos" in Brawl.

I need to do that with Kirby more often and stuff.

yeah.

 

[Vinylic.]

Lol, it's easy.
You just copy other people on what they do when watching a video full of awesome. Like chu, DC, Mike, and Timmy.

Then, you just make up a method and test it. I made my own combo and it worked.
It could've been already made by someone else but at least you know what to do now.


And lol, my sisters boyfriend says he's pro and get this, he won because he threw a bob-omb.

"Woooo, Awwww yeah bro. That pro status. I told you."

"That is called luck status."

 

[MikeKirby]

I think Kewkky's Kirby is (was?) very respectable. He's got some very neat videos. Well, that is, when he doesn't derp.

I cautiously assume that you mean me when you say Mike, heh. My videos are scarce and somewhat outdated.

 

[Sage JoWii]

>_> I have Kirby videos too.....somewhere....

;_;

 

[Sage JoWii]

Played Bizkit on Wi-Fi.

Got *****.

His Snake bodied my Kirby and TL, and my MK; all barely got him mid-range in his second stock each with TL probably doing the best.

His MK was more fun to play because I was getting closer to beating him but it was still wi-fi. Had it been offline, who knows if I would have got bodied or done better (though I feel I could do better but that's probably wishful thinking).

Our MK dittos were fun and I could hold my ground. I feel like he just outplayed me because I know the MK ditto enough to know how to recover and that's half the battle right there. It's when we'd get onstage that he'd get the better of me.

All in all, I feel like I did as good as I could've done on wi-fi against his wi-fi self. I probably could've been more patient though.

Snake/Kirby is still one of those match-ups that is a steep uphill battle. His range is godly and the fact his explosives forces you to approach is what puts Kirby up a creek without a paddle, fighting white water rapids to go upstream. I don't know how Chu use to do it honestly. I'd probably just get my Fox out specifically for that MU while I train my TL for it.

Kirby/MK is still one of those that I believe Kirby has a fighting chance. When 'nado is coming at us, our BAir can cancel it I've noticed.

 

[Asdioh]

ha, you're afraid of Snake as Kirby but not afraid of MK? I don't understand that x_x
I also don't see TL doing better against Snake, honestly. Fox maybe can.
Also forgot you started with Fox too, you copier

It's also funny, as Kirby, when you steal Snake's power and stupid wifi Snakes get a taste of their own stupidpoo when they try to DACUS (wifi abuse) and get blown up by your grenades.

 

[Kewkky]

I looove playing Kirby vs Snake. Probably tied for my favorite MU with Diddy, to be honest. And my Kirby's still respectable, to a degree... I still have my basic skills top notch from bplaying lots of games everywhere, but my smashing speed is kinda sad right now. Hmm... I hope a tourney that I can attend happens soon (so JoWii can come and play with me and blackwaltz, who is now my roommate too).

 

[Asdioh]

you... enjoy playing against diddy?

if so, tell me how to play it, in excruciating detail.

 

[Kantrip]

Don't attack our shield, and don't land on the ground when you can help it. I think bair is the best bet to pick up grounded bananas. You can use JCIT as a pseudo-glidetoss (as iirc I think kirby lacks one?) You can gimp us pretty easily, too.

 

[Kewkky]

If you step up your item game and play enough Diddies, you can get a feel for when to catch the bananas (z-catch or doing the airdodge AT, forgot the name). What to do with them depends on how good you are with items; use them against Diddy if you trust your skill, or throw them up/away from the stage if you're having doubts. Why up? They'll take longer to disappear so Diddy won't have access. If Diddy can reach them anyway, away from the stage is your best bet. Me, I always use them against Diddy, too used to items thanks to co-maining ZSS. As for the on-stage game... never play on flat stages with a small amount of platforms, never do a landing aerial on their shield (aircamp instead, hover near them until they do something, anything, then react accordingly), don't fall for their walls (banana in hand and banana in front of them, while they're shooting peanuts. Don't rush, just wait for the banana to disappear)... tilt a lot because they're fast and mostly safe, and don't fish for kills with smashes and instead wait to punish him for landing wrong or after he trips with a banana you threw or something.


Off the top of my head, is's 3am here and I'm using my phone, else i'd write more and with less typos.