Kansas City Area Brawl Thread

[Gamegenie222]

English man.

 

[MJG]

Going back to Manhattan this week.

It was nice seeing the Old/New KC brawlers. Im out.

 

[quote]

Yeah my parents gave me tons of johns about why they dont want to take me and then said that i couldnt get a ride from anyone either.

Probably wont be able to come for a while either.

God I know this feeling too well.

QuOTE SINCE WhEN WAS GOLF NOT A SPORT. WHEN WE FINALLY PLAY AGAIN IM NOT SANDBAGGING ONE ****lNG BIT.

/RAGE

I said "most people" which doesn't include me. It's a disclaimer on part of the argument. Some people think it's a joke which means it's excluded as an example. If anything, I said golf has a better tournament structure than football that rewards consistency.

If no one shows up, give me a call. If it really isn't worth comming it pleeeeease let me know. The less risk I have, the better. I've got a long *** drive down there.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Hey, no juans. You cannot Juan about nothing until you've driven a Rear-Wheel-Drive on a stick-shift.

 

[Ares]

Hey, no juans. You cannot Juan about nothing until you've driven a Rear-Wheel-Drive on a stick-shift.

Señor doom knows whats up

 

[PSI.kick]

Holy **** my school website is so busy the server went down and i cant check if i have school tomorrow. wtf is this world coming to xD

 

[Rockstar]

Just thought i`d clear the air. I was kidding when I said I was maining Mario/Trainer/Lucas. Ness is the only character I can legit have a chance at winning anything with. Itd be great if I could carpool w/ someone for No Koast, and any other upcoming tourneys. I need to re-establish my PK-**** status that has slowly seemed to fade. Where are the tournaments? Link me please

 

[PSI.kick]

where's no koast at? i think im free that weekend.


*cough* nevermind.

 

[DeLux]

Wait wut? You can't do that. MJG with 15 stocks?

"Best Crew Battle Ever. And by Best, I mean Longest Crew Battle. Ever"




GGS tonight guys. I'm really starting to understand the game on a much different level and have been making some good strides in my competitive game.

Can't wait until I show the West Coast what we do in a few weeks

 

[Lordydennek]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11950136#post11950136

 

[DeLux]

Just thought i`d clear the air. I was kidding when I said I was maining Mario/Trainer/Lucas. Ness is the only character I can legit have a chance at winning anything with. Itd be great if I could carpool w/ someone for No Koast, and any other upcoming tourneys. I need to re-establish my PK-**** status that has slowly seemed to fade. Where are the tournaments? Link me please

In order:

Ness is bottom of the middle tier. I feel like if your goal is to "win anything with" someone, you'd REALLY be well served in finding a high tier main you like to play with. I understand how fun Ness is to play with given that I used to main him. But if you want to win tournaments, he simply has too many flaws to exploit and overcome.

I know I keep saying it, but it really needs to be said. Of all the new smashers we've recruited recently, in my opinion you probably have the most potential to be very, very good at this game. There are always exceptions to the rule (cough mjg cough cough) but they are few and far between.


Oh And:

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51&prefixid=Midwest

Going back to Manhattan this week.

It was nice seeing the Old/New KC brawlers. Im out.

Dude. You can't leaveeeeee. You need to help me with the IC/TL matchup. And by IC/TL matchup, I mean "learn a secondary". Aka, Wario/TL matchup lol. Don't gooooooooo

where's no koast at? i think im free that weekend.


*cough* nevermind.

No Koast is in El Dorado KS. A bunch of people are getting organized to go together in the thread.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

ggs tonight guys. well ive done a lot of thinking, and i am going to drop lucario competitively. i have regressed with him, and have realized he does nothing for me in the competitive scene. im going to be picking up samus seriously now. dont think im sandbagging if i pick samus- im going to legitimately learn her for a specific matchup, maybe more if i find more.

 

[DeLux]

Time for a new avatar?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

we shall see LOL

 

[DeLux]

I need a new Avatar. And tag for tournies. And Sig. I'll be take suggestions for Tags. So far I might go with:

(Lux)
(Insert Weird L thing|Insert pronunciation U| Insert Lower case "x")
DeLux
KPR12
Lucks
ACRNM


Also: My Bio and Secondaries need updating. TL and Zelda. No Homo is no longer funny to me.

True story: I turned my B button (which is usually grab) to side taunt to practice different grab inputs using the cstick to incorporate level of buffered ISSDI. I lost to a level 9 MK. I am bad.

Edit: Include Level 9 DDD to that as well.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

change bio to what

 

[PSI.kick]

Well i ended up doing absolutely nothing tonight. i watched star trek nemesis with my dad but that was it. dang snow.

 

[DeLux]

I don't know. Whatever comes to mind when you think of me. Things it shouldn't reference: I am in the Smash Lab. I have a desync named after me because I discovered it. I don't troll outside of this thread.

Things it should: I am infamous for making acronyms of other fancy Ice Climber techs. My average Drop to CG ratio. Ice Climbers are broken and dumb but I still lose with them. Uhhhhhhhhh.... I don't know what else. Captain of the KC-West Crew of one (plus nana).

 

[PSI.kick]

you drop over 9000! grabs every match?

 

[DeLux]

Well, not quite that many. Let's not exaggerate. Tell the truth.

 

[Dnyce]

idk, make your tag "shaq" or somethin

lol, still a fan of that joke XD

 

[DeLux]

Yo Nana must be a fan of Snoop Dogg, because when that ***** chain grabs she drops it like it's hot

 

[Rockstar]

Yeah thats true about Ness. He does have a few negative flaws like his asi-asi recovery, and extra 10 grab release frames. But almost everyone happens to look over his pros for his cons. He has the best spike in the game, all of his projectiles are great edgeguards, his fair can almost be used as a zair, every one of his aerials can kill (besides his fair/zair), PT2 is stronger than a falcon punch, so it KO's at terribly low percents, his dtilt has a 50% guaranteed trip, so get it in twice and more then often they will fall, comboing into whatever you want. His jab lock is great. His FThrow can kill at 0% on alot of stages, and his back throw is just insane. Haha


Thanks. Im trying everyday to be as good as Ness is able to be. Which is alot more then meets the eye.

 

[quote]

Yo Nana must be a fan of Snoop Dogg, because when that ***** chain grabs she drops it like it's hot

Lololololololololololololololol!!!!

So yeah, last night I went back to my Grandma's house to save time/gas getting to school since enrollment was supposed to be today. Well, that's been cancelled. I've needed to go to the campus for two days in a row now and can't. I get off my *** to go to school risking a car accident for nothing. Kinda depressing. This officially marks 2 consecutive snow days that I've missed out on because of school not being in session.

Last night I had a dream about 3 stocking fino and lux's IC's with kirby. Funny considering I don't expect that to happen. Ever.

Someone should host today. I think a decent amount of people probably had school cancelled today.

 

[BPx]

Are you guys going to OHSNAP, Joker's, or neither?

 

[PSI.kick]

I'd be down for some smash today, parents would probably be willing to take me now, not sure though.

 

[quote]

I'll go to either one if I can get a free ride and place to stay. But that really doesn't seem too likely

 

[Dnyce]

He has the best spike in the game, all of his projectiles are great edgeguards, his fair can almost be used as a zair, every one of his aerials can kill (besides his fair/zair), PT2 is stronger than a falcon punch, so it KO's at terribly low percents, his dtilt has a 50% guaranteed trip, so get it in twice and more then often they will fall, comboing into whatever you want. His jab lock is great. His FThrow can kill at 0% on alot of stages, and his back throw is just insane. Haha


Thanks. Im trying everyday to be as good as Ness is able to be. Which is alot more then meets the eye.

(1) How often are you spiking good people?
------- Is it really worth having?
*Snake, Diddy, Falco, Marth, and ICs all have good spikes
(2) A forward-air is not a z-air. I don't understand how you can get the two confused. Next time you grab the edge with fair, lemme know ;o
(3) All of his aerials can kill..... but his aerials are his most viable moves in a lot of match-ups - so they all get stale
*Fun fact: every character in the game has aerials that kill
(4) How often are you killing good people with PKT2?
------- Is it really worth having?
*Metaknight, Snake, and Wario all have moves with super kill potential
(5) Iirc, every character has a move that trips. If you really like the idea of tripping an opponent for combos, may I suggest playing diddy? Bananas have a 100% trip ratio - TWICE AS EFFECTIVE
(6) Lots of characters have jab locks.


idk, just saying.... you could be playing a lot better characters who can do not only what you just listed about being ness' pros, but (in some cases) better... and with less cons.


How does fthrow kill at 0% ?

 

[rpotts]

but the real question is, can he dair -> grab?

Spoiler

inb4 dair -> bat

 

[DeLux]

This is the following scenario that I'm sure you'll recall:

Ness Vs. Wario

We trade damage but you out play me. You kill me with bthrow at like 130% while you only have 90 damage on you.

During invincibility, I walk up and fsmash you. We are now tied at 0 to 0.

We trade damage again. Same scenario happens where you're totally outplaying but out of nowhere Boom! There goes the waft. You just lost a stock while I have 120% damage on me.

I run around like only Wario can and you spend so much energy trying to catch me that it leaves a few holes open. I score 45% damage before you can land that bthrow.

During invincibility, I walk up and fsmash you. You are now at 65%. And in kill zone with waft and losing despite having outplayed me for two stocks of the match.

That type of thing happened multiple times. Having something like that where I outplay someone repeatedly only to lose would frustrate me to no end.

 

[Dnyce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

 

[quote]

Examples are a bad form of argument.

The reason you should choose a character should be because they have tools to deal with weaknesses in your playstyle and amplify your strengths. I play kirby because he's easy to space, dealing with the problem of me getting shieldgrabbed. He has a good set of options to finish the stock which I always seem to have a problem with.

The above should be rephrased to Ness has problems with characters running the clock down and not being able to catch up.

 

[Rockstar]

I dont remember that Lux lol. I know we've played alot of matches, tournament and casuals, but I cant recall losing to your Wario. You've gotten me to my last stock by hopping around, running down the timer, dair, fsmash, upair, neutral special, and down special, but I just cant remember. It couldve happened, but I dont know. Ive had my fair share of wins/losses with Ness, so it couldve happened. My memory just cant grasp every match.

So No Koast is a double day tournament, so I might not be able to do that. When is the next single day tournament? Anyone going to it?

 

[quote]

Next Monday I need to record a bunch of my games. None of the games of mine that are watchable ever end up being less than 3 minutes. This is important because I have trouble critiqueing myself while I play.

Actually to be honest, I think we all could benefit from it.

 

[Ares]

I dont remember that Lux lol. I know we've played alot of matches, tournament and casuals, but I cant recall losing to your Wario. You've gotten me to my last stock by hopping around, running down the timer, dair, fsmash, upair, neutral special, and down special, but I just cant remember. It couldve happened, but I dont know. Ive had my fair share of wins/losses with Ness, so it couldve happened. My memory just cant grasp every match.

So No Koast is a double day tournament, so I might not be able to do that. When is the next single day tournament? Anyone going to it?

You missed the point of his example. With low tier chars u can outplay somebody all game and still lose because of the character's limitations.

 

[Rockstar]

In his example, me losing didnt have anything to do with 'limitations'. It was just being stupid and getting hit by Warios FSmash during the 2.5 seconds of invincibility after a new stock. Lol it could happen to any character.

 

[DeLux]

Examples are a bad form of argument.

Uhh... Finding one counterEXAMPLE is enough to prove an argument unsound. That's all Fino and I are doing, providing counter examples where he says "x character has these strengths but he's low tier." If another character has those strengths, and those strengths were the only reason he was maining a character in the first place, then logic would dictate the superior character is the one with the superior strength, assuming you want to win.

The reason you should choose a character should be because they have tools to deal with weaknesses in your playstyle and amplify your strengths. I play kirby because he's easy to space, dealing with the problem of me getting shieldgrabbed. He has a good set of options to finish the stock which I always seem to have a problem with.

If this is true, I'm in a crap load of trouble maining ice climbers. My weakness as a player is hard reading people. Which is the only way to grab someone at high levels of play. (Please don't argue that, until you main IC's and play the high level of play, you don't understand). And another weakness I have is that I take work gameplay in too linear of a fashion. Which is bad for IC's because if you try to grab everything (aka the linear answer) then you lose. I also get overwhelmed by a high levels of speed in gameplay, something ICs are susceptible against as well. I really should change my main then.

And we keep saying, Metaknight has all of those strengths that kirby has. I promise you that MK is MUCH harder for me to grab than Kirby is. And he has much more kill options than Kirby, which would mask that weakness much better than Kirby's limited kill potential. I personally think that a lot of your problem killing people IS that you play Kirby. His most viable kill option is a ground move, while you're spending most of your time in the air. That doesn't sound like the most viable scenario, when compared to MK where TWO of his kill options (Nair and Shuttle) can be done from the air.

The above should be rephrased to Ness has problems with characters running the clock down and not being able to catch up.

This is BRAWL. If they are playing to win in tournament, EVERY character on this side of Ganon is going to run the clock down if they are ahead. I play one of the least mobile characters in the game with IC's and I run down the clock all the time. It's one of the symptoms of a game where every move on shield gives frame advantage to the shielder.

I dont remember that Lux lol. I know we've played alot of matches, tournament and casuals, but I cant recall losing to your Wario. You've gotten me to my last stock by hopping around, running down the timer, dair, fsmash, upair, neutral special, and down special, but I just cant remember. It couldve happened, but I dont know. Ive had my fair share of wins/losses with Ness, so it couldve happened. My memory just cant grasp every match.

So No Koast is a double day tournament, so I might not be able to do that. When is the next single day tournament? Anyone going to it?

If you think my Wario can't beat your Ness, I will gladly money match the two characters. I KNOW I've beaten you a majority of the time I've played my secondary. Not only that, I know the fashion of how I win, and the basic script is what I outlined above where I abuse the tier list attributes to win, rather than outplay you.

Like honestly, it's not like we're trying to be mean or troll you. Fino and I are reading that you "want to win". We're doing everything we can to help you do that. And having had some success on the tournament level, we know that it's very difficult to do what you want to do with the character you play. I mean, part of me hopes that you prove me wrong and you become the greatest Ness player of all time. Yet part of me knows that the likelihood of the happening is almost none.

In his example, me losing didnt have anything to do with 'limitations'. It was just being stupid and getting hit by Warios FSmash during the 2.5 seconds of invincibility after a new stock. Lol it could happen to any character.

Ok, in my example, replace where I kill you with fsmash with "I run the clock and waft you". And next time I hit an MK gliding under the level during my invincibility frames, I'll let you know. If a Snake knows what it's doing, it'll plant a dsmash down and force me to choose going hard aggro on him or removing the dsmash from play the only time I can without taking damage. Characters can plank. It can happen to any character, just those that are BELOW wario on the tier list are much more susceptible to it.

 

[MJG]

Just main MK like I do.

 

[DeLux]

lol Says the greatest Toon Link of all time:

Use B Tier an up if you want to make money at tourneys.


Use whoever if you are having fun with the game.

Brawl^

 

[quote]

Uhh... Finding one counterEXAMPLE is enough to prove an argument unsound. That's all Fino and I are doing, providing counter examples where he says "x character has these strengths but he's low tier." If another character has those strengths, and those strengths were the only reason he was maining a character in the first place, then logic would dictate the superior character is the one with the superior strength, assuming you want to win.

The problem with this is that you are trying to provide evidence for an argument (play high tier characters or that Ness isn't his best option), not debunking an existing argument. The example doesn't directly clash with anything Rockstar said so I don't understand how it could be a counterexample because it doesn't counter any of the claims made. In this regard, the argument is weak because Wario vs. Ness is one of 30+ matchups for ness. This would likely mean that that you need to present matchup specific examples on ten or more for it all to line up. I have no doubt you can do this by providing a link to the Ness matchup thread. But just one example isn't enough.

If this is true, I'm in a crap load of trouble maining ice climbers. My weakness as a player is hard reading people. Which is the only way to grab someone at high levels of play. (Please don't argue that, until you main IC's and play the high level of play, you don't understand). And another weakness I have is that I take work gameplay in too linear of a fashion. Which is bad for IC's because if you try to grab everything (aka the linear answer) then you lose. I also get overwhelmed by a high levels of speed in gameplay, something ICs are susceptible against as well. I really should change my main then.

I'd actually reverse that logic. 1 hard read with IC's is enough to single handedly win the game. 1 hard read with IC's equals 1 stock. Normal, on stage reads by characters like metaknight, diddy, etc. won't usually add up to nearly that much. I don't know how much people actually think about it in game, but reads happen all the time and a lot of the time, it's subconscious. Long story short, it deals with your weakness in reading by stretching the value of your reads to a stock with a proper chaingrab.

And we keep saying, Metaknight has all of those strengths that kirby has. I promise you that MK is MUCH harder for me to grab than Kirby is. And he has much more kill options than Kirby, which would mask that weakness much better than Kirby's limited kill potential. I personally think that a lot of your problem killing people IS that you play Kirby. His most viable kill option is a ground move, while you're spending most of your time in the air. That doesn't sound like the most viable scenario, when compared to MK where TWO of his kill options (Nair and Shuttle) can be done from the air.

I probably will drop him to a secondary at some point soon. There are some matchups that I have too much trouble with so believe me I will. I just need to work on one thing at a time though. I'm also playing him because the other character I'm thinking about using doesn't force me to work on some of the things I think I need to fix in how I play regardless of character choice.


@rockstar-start figuring out what bad matchups you have. Start practicing those or if you already have, make a decision on whether or not you can win more than 50 percent of the time without a strong amount of practice with the character you play. If you have more than 3-4 of these out of the 30-40, you need to change your main.

The reason the tiers list is so important is because it gets you through this process so much more quickly. For instance, you can start out with metaknight and practically not even worry about this whole process because he's got like 1-2 bad matchups if any at all. Snake, Falco and Diddy are good to start with for the same reason. The number of bad matchups to start with just escalate the further down the tier list you go.