Kansas City Area Brawl Thread

[quote]

I wasn't convinced until I saw this post. That is sad that you have nothing better to do with your life LOL.

I think that both of us do, but we don't really have the gas/need more money.

The round ends at after the first post after 12:00. This will be endless otherwise.

 

[MJG]

I think that both of us do, but we don't really have the gas/need more money.

The round ends at after the first post after 12:00. This will be endless otherwise.

What does this have to do with gas/needing more money?

...


inb4mypostwastakenliteral

Bed.

afk

 

[quote]

Counterexample argument is dropped.

The problem with this is that you are trying to provide evidence for an argument (play high tier characters or that Ness isn't his best option), not debunking an existing argument. The example doesn't directly clash with anything Rockstar said so I don't understand how it could be a counterexample because it doesn't counter any of the claims made. In this regard, the argument is weak because Wario vs. Ness is one of 30+ matchups for ness. This would likely mean that that you need to present matchup specific examples on ten or more for it all to line up. I have no doubt you can do this by providing a link to the Ness matchup thread. But just one example isn't enough.

I am not playing aff. this was dropped

You are playing aff in regards to changing rockstars main with this reasoning

Status quo = Rockstar is maining Ness
If you are changing this you are aff.

My counterplan is still better than one small example. Because an entire metagame is > than one matchup.

Significance attack still stands as one matchup does not justify switching charaters.

The round ends at after the first post after 12:00. This will be endless otherwise. ^^ Last debate post for me

 

[BPx]

lurking this is entertaining and painful at the same time.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lurking this is entertaining and painful at the same time.

i sooo agree with this. alas im the owner of this thread so i have to read every single damn word

 

[Ares]

I refresh and theres 2 new pages..fml

edit: metaknight da bess

edit2: also wtf conversation brought domo out..

 

[DeLux]

You are playing aff in regards to changing rockstars main with this reasoning

Status quo = Rockstar is maining Ness
If you are changing this you are aff.

I'm running a counterplan saying that this is a better way to argue/convince him to drop ness and attacking your significance of your original argument, saying that one example of a bad matchup isn't enough to justify a character change.

An analysis is incomplete without all of the sample data. Individual pieces (separated examples) aren't representative of the whole because there will always be outliers in sets of data. The only way to deal with these deviations and still represent the normal ones is to look at things in their entirety. A metagame analysis can't be broken down because of that.

I respectfully disagree with how you're framing the debate, but I can admit you're reasoning is sound based on how you've framed it.

In my mind it was:

Rockstar's resolved that maining Ness is the best way for him to win, placing him the application.

I negated saying that if the value is winning, the better criteria for getting their would be maining a different character.

In which point your refutation was that arguing from examples was bad logic.

Then we argued about example and their validity in argument.

In this instance, I wasn't playing affirmative of anything, but simply negating the entire time in my mind. I was negating Rockstar's vc of Ness and your resolution that examples are bad arguing.

I wasn't convinced until I saw this post. That is sad that you have nothing better to do with your life LOL.

MJG, while I respect your opinion in the matters of Brawl and you generally as a person, I think that this was uncalled for. Your opinion is based on the very narrow scope that you know me.

I wish you would reserve judgment and insults until you've worked two job to help pay to put yourself and a sibling through college, work an unpaid internship where you feed the homeless community of a city, and attend night classes in the time you do have, all at the same time. All while maintaining a healthy relationship/social life. Once you've done all of that, aka walking a mile in my shoes, then I'll accept your judgment.

Seriously, it's terrible that having intelligent discussion is reason to be ridiculed. Especially among such a "nerdy" community like the Brawl community.

Now that the Ad Hominem arguments are coming out, I'm done with it and moving on. It was fun Quote.

 

[quote]

For the record, the round is over.

@stealth. Sorry. I was having fun.

I was going bonkers over the whole LD vs policy debate thing. I didn't really do much LD to be honest. I think that sophmore year was that last time I did any of it. My mind has a lot of trouble understanding the structure of it to be honest. Policy just makes a lot more sense to me.

GG's.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

i have my own structure of debate. its called trolling. i could care less about the semantics and technicalities of debate

 

[DotHack]

Someone order a load of salt?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

 

[quote]

I need a new Avatar. And tag for tournies. And Sig. I'll be take suggestions for Tags. So far I might go with:

new avatar?

i have my own structure of debate. its called trolling. i could care less about the semantics and technicalities of debate

I laughed soooooooo hard at this.

 

[Dnyce]

I play kirby because he's easy to space, dealing with the problem of me getting shieldgrabbed.

All of kirby's aerials can be shield grabbed by Olimar... I'm sure other chars can too (like DDD or Charizard for instance).

The above should be rephrased to Ness has problems with characters running the clock down and not being able to catch up.

As well as problems with a lot of other characters.

I'm pretty sure that Fino, MJ, Stealth, and you need more than one bad matchup in order to change your main.

Umm... well I guess none of us have really changed mains... but we have picked up an *** load of characters for match-ups.

I don't know how much time you spend playing/watching N64, but I'm a Captain falcon main. He grabs you at zero, and you're done. He has easy 0-deaths on every character in that game, most of which start from a grab, or a bizzare setup.

You've never 0-death'd me before with falcon O.o

Though... a difference between falcon in 64 and ICs in brawl is that ICs have one of the worst grab ranges in brawl compared to falcon who has one of the best grab range in 64 (what I've heard, though correct me if I'm wrong).

I cant believe you guys have the time to debate this game to the point where you have 5 paragragh replies.

I wrote an 86 word-document-page long post on almost everything I know about Olimar.
.-. Pretty sure I've had countless long posts as well. It's actually pretty standard for competitive gamers to wall text here and there



Umm... overall all these posts were @.@
I can't go to oh snap anymore, so what's this thing on saturday going on?

:o

 

[Stealth Raptor]

but seriously that was the most senseless series of posts i have ever seen. yall were arguing over the semantics of... arguing. wtf if yall gonna argue then do so.

 

[DeLux]

On Saturday:

Rockstar wants to $20 money match me Wario v. Ness on select levels.

The Lawrence Public Library is having a tournament for 7-12th graders. I was going to see if anyone was worth recruiting to our competitive scene. I haven't asked, but I assume I'm not allowed to play. I assume you aren't either. If they let us play, we should go double IC's if they have teams lol. I assume it'll end up being some FFA items and time tourney.

Outside of that, I'm willing to host on Saturday.

 

[quote]

You've never 0-death'd me before with falcon O.o

Though... a difference between falcon in 64 and ICs in brawl is that ICs have one of the worst grab ranges in brawl compared to falcon who has one of the best grab range in 64 (what I've heard, though correct me if I'm wrong).

How many games of 64 have I played you in again? I think I can count them on one hand. Potts, Jace, Archive, Blake, and danny have never gone jigs on me. And furthermore, we were playing on Hyrule the one time we did play.

Well, IC's have a good projectile, and desyncs to set things up. So it evens out in a way.

 

[Dnyce]

How many games of 64 have I played you in again? I think I can count them on one hand. Potts, Jace, Archive, Blake, and danny have never gone jigs on me. And furthermore, we were playing on Hyrule the one time we did play.

Well, IC's have a good projectile, and desyncs to set things up. So it evens out in a way.

You have shield stun as well as the ability to combo into grabs... and falcon is a lot faster in 64 than ICs in brawl. Also, less defensive options (such as psheilding - minus yoshi who can parry, aerial dodging and spot dodging) for your opponent to avoid grabs.

idk how many times we've played. I also use ness and recall playing you on dreamland as well, but it doesn't matter.

 

[quote]

You have shield stun as well as the ability to combo into grabs... and falcon is a lot faster in 64 than ICs in brawl. Also, less defensive options (such as psheilding - minus yoshi who can parry, aerial dodging and spot dodging) for your opponent to avoid grabs.

idk how many times we've played. I also use ness and recall playing you on dreamland as well, but it doesn't matter.

I'm not going to argue the speed. Being fast is too good.
I think it honestly was about two games though.

 

[Rockstar]

Dude your just wasting your time & life trying to tell me to change my main. You won`t go far with that. Even if you see better options with other characters, it`s still not gonna work, I put that on my grandbabies.

And why are you against those stages? Theyre all neutral. Nothing cheap about them bro. So why not? Best 3/5. Besides, YOU SAID you won`t even need those counterpicks.

 

[DeLux]

If it's all neutrals, why are you excluding Lylat and PS1 from the list? Especially PS1 because it's considered more neutral than FD on the stage list.

Why not then just play a Best of 5 on the following levels:

Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Delphino
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd

Nothing cheap about them either, they are all on the universal stagelist. If I mained Wario, I would also ban FD from the stagelist every set because it's not a good stage for the character. Add to that, I don't ever play the character on "neutrals" aka starter stages because that's where I play Ice Climbers.

I agree to your terms. I just think it's really scrubby that you want to do it only on select levels ignoring the established rules that are in place in terms of tournament play. I don't care about changing your main and I'm done trying to help you when we play. I'll just take your $20 and move on.

 

[Gamegenie222]

You guys need to talk about Icy's and Ike more.

 

[BPx]

if i was going to play one of those dumb EB kids, it'd probably be lucas. atleast you can look flashy while playing a bad char :/

 

[MJG]

I love Danny *No Homo.


afk

 

[Dnyce]

Was anyone interested in going to jokers?

Just curious...


I got like 8 million different things goin on right now... but since jokers is just a one day I'd be able to go to that over oh snap .-.

 

[PSI.kick]

Well, just finished reading those walls of texts...

Somebody that doesn't play melee should sig this. It would be completely out of context though.

I already have an out of context sig xD

I agree to your terms. I just think it's really scrubby that you want to do it only on select levels ignoring the established rules that are in place in terms of tournament play. I don't care about changing your main and I'm done trying to help you when we play. I'll just take your $20 and move on.

At first i was like wut.























and then i was like wut.


Edit: Fino if you go on saturday do you think i could get a ride?
*cough* oh yeah.


and i might be able to make it monday due to a school holiday.

 

[quote]

What's this thing at joker's place again?

 

[DeLux]

What's this thing at joker's place again?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176740

If I decide to go, then I won't be hosting in Lawrence due to obvious logisitical issues. I'll keep you all posted here what I decide to do.

 

[Dnyce]

What's this thing at joker's place again?

Brawl / Melee tournament


With Side events including....

whatever the hell people feel like playing

 

[quote]

Have they ever done any 64.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Highly doubt it. You can troll the thread and ask them to put in some 64.

 

[DeLux]

WHOA WHOA WHOA pump the brakes.

Did I read the Ice Climbers have a good projectile? When did this happen?

 

[quote]

WHOA WHOA WHOA pump the brakes.

Did I read the Ice Climbers have a good projectile? When did this happen?

Having a projectile that turns into a grab setup via frame trap makes it good. Even if you know about it there will times that you screw up and eat a chaingrab. Moves must be evaluated in conjunction with the rest of the moveset. In a vacuum it definitely sucks. I'd kill to have a projectile with falcon I can chase into a grab setup like IC's though. By the way, there are ways that the IC's can use it to zone off certain areas of a stage by getting them really slow.

 

[DeLux]

You can actually SDI through/away both projectiles Ice Shot and Blizzard so they are fairly unreliable for grab setups against people that know the matchup. I kidd you not, I've hit people with legit Ice block chasers only to whiff the grab because they SDI'd through me. Besides, Ice Shot is only 10 frames of hitstun, so realistically, I couldn't make a reaction read to see if it hits you before grabbing because you could simply PS to spot dodge.

Also, every grab setup from IC's is beaten by two different buttons on the controller. It's like the game makers knew people wouldn't like getting chaingrabbed, so they gave people twice the chance to find the obvious solution against it (aka x & y aka Jump)

 

[Rockstar]

Yeah Fino i`d go to Jokers if anyone wants to carpool.

Lux so it`s a money set. Best 2/3, fd, battlefield, yoshi`s island, or smashville. Winner gets $20. Set gets uploaded to youtube. Loser never complains again about how the winner should use a higher tier character. Capiesh?

 

[DeLux]

WHY ARE WE NOT PLAYING ON PS1 AND LYLAT?
You went from Bo5 to Bo3. Make up your mind.
I haven't heard anyone besides Ares (mk da bess) tell me to main a higher tier character.

 

[MJG]

Yeah Fino i`d go to Jokers if anyone wants to carpool.

Lux so it`s a money set. Best 2/3, fd, battlefield, yoshi`s island, or smashville. Winner gets $20. Set gets uploaded to youtube. Loser never complains again about how the winner should use a higher tier character. Capiesh?

Just spike him each stock.

Profit.

 

[Rockstar]

Lux I set Bo3/ Bo5 before. Now i`m saying Bo3 final.

I dont see anything wrong with those 4 stages. If you want to see who`s truly better, you don`t play on stages like PS1, even if they are tourney legal.

Haha MJ. Spike all night.

 

[DeLux]

Lux I set Bo3/ Bo5 before. Now i`m saying Bo3 final.

I dont see anything wrong with those 4 stages. If you want to see who`s truly better, you don`t play on stages like PS1, even if they are tourney legal.

Haha MJ. Spike all night.

Lux I set Bo3/ Bo5 before. Now i`m saying Bo3 final.

Uhhh.... I must have taken the following out of context then:

So why not? Best 3/5. Besides, YOU SAID you won`t even need those counterpicks.

I'm sure you could see why you are confusing the **** out of me.

I dont see anything wrong with those 4 stages. If you want to see who`s truly better, you don`t play on stages like PS1, even if they are tourney legal

Stages like PS1? All the stages you listed are in the class as PS1. Same thing as Lylat. They are NEUTRALS. And they definitely are much more neutral stages than FD. How do I know? Because half of the bans in tournament play get used on FD. There is so much wrong with this that I have no idea where to begin. I have to be getting trolled here.

 

[Rockstar]

Yeah my bad. Sorry about that. Well its officially 2/3.

Whatever you say. Unlike you, I dont have time for online debating. It`s all good.

 

[DeLux]

I'll agree to Bo3 and strike/ban from the following set of levels:

Battlefield
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

For $20. If Rockstar wins I won't tell him anything about the tier list or that Ness is low on it. Set gets recorded to Youtube. Winner decides the channel.

Ness v. Wario.