K rool is a garbage low midtier

Agree?

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Sudz

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Go ahead and use him in tournaments for all I see. If you keep viewing K. Rool as a non-viable, “garbage” character then he will be so in your eyes. I’m having a lot of fun using Kirby whenever I get the chance to use a Switch. You can still accomplish notable feats with your favorite Kremling, (Mr. L anyone) I still have faith that he’ll improve over time.
I'm going to a tournament on the 3rd and will post my results over here, probably gonna get bodied tbh cause I've only really been able to play online

I have faith he's not actual garbage but his flaws are pretty extreme, he's a lot better if you can get in the opponent's head imo
 

BuffKirby

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Nobody in Ultimate is garbage. The fact that we have bottom tiers making upsets shows that all characters are capable of making (at least) decent results. We’ve got Bocchi’s upsets over Ally and Raptor (Isabelle), Jesuischoq taking off sets from higher ranked PR’s in France (Homika and PEW with Kirby), Greward with Plant placing 17th in Albion 4, Young Eevey with Bowser Jr. placing top 8 in said tournament, and K. Rool with the B-tier feat, defeating Luco and Extra.

If you’re looking for garbage characters, go look at Brawl Falcon or Brawl Jiggs. Or Smash 4 Miis.
 
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Make his Super Armor more viable. Hell..Make it UNBREAKABLE!!! Make it so that even when he is turned into combo food his Super Armor kicks in *armor sound* and he takes like 50% less dmg or something. Jesus... make him a scary ass character to fight.

Make his Down-B auto turn around if hit from behind like EVERY SINGLE FIRE EMBLEM character...Thats all I want.
 
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Does K. Rool Forward-Air have Super Armor? I just ask because I have never seen K. Rool's belly armor breaking while I was ever doing Forward-Air with him.
 

BuffKirby

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To make a comparison, 4 Puff, a bottom 3 character, never got buffed, much less touched in patches. What was her playerbase like? I feel the same or something similar will happen to Krool.
Puff in 4 has among the most minuscule (but not THE, because :4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword: and other low/bottom tiers) due to:

1. General popularity as a character. Its moveset and personality isn’t really appealing to a general audience, so it’s understandable to why it’s not that popular.

2. Since people from Brawl (especially :jigglypuff: mains) were hoping to see improvements, you get strengths that have been toned down, matchups worse than Brawl, weaknesses further exacerbated, and no updates whatsoever. Only :4dedede: suffered a worse fate, but even then, ZAKI improved his perception a bit just before Smash 4 transitioned to Ultimate.

K. Rool will obviously do better. Like I said earlier, his playerbase might be minimal at the moment, but his results will improve over time. He’s still popular as a character itself, and there’s people like Mr. L and LeeSmash4Me that dedicate themselves to utilizing the Croc. Meanwhile, I predict fighters like :ultincineroar::ultganondorf::ultcorrinf::ultrichter::ultrobinf:, and to an extent, :ultshulk::ultwiifittrainer::ultken: will begin to diminish since their early presumptions won’t effectively be applied in competitive play. “Mid tier” has no real meaning since you’re applying this to around 45 characters, and their perceptions will rapidly change over the course of 6 months. The meta is young, and :ultjigglypuff: is easily doing better compared to its past two incarnations. Top players can easily transition to other characters, so we’ll wait and see how things go.
 
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Also keep in mind that the dev team is looking at results to help them in decisions on what to change, which I don't think they did during Smash 4. And Sakurai himself mentioned that King K. Rool's results were less than favorable in response to people claiming he was overpowered.

Sakurai can say whatever he wants about Smash being a party game, but Ultimate has been leaning more towards the competitive side of the community far more than any installment since Melee. I think that alone makes King K. Rool's future more promising, but we'll need to wait and see. Word on the street says that 4.0.0 will be dropping very soon, so we'll need to keep our fingers crossed.
 
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Also keep in mind how they've made characters a lot better in updates before. For a recent example, look at :ultdiddy:before the 3.0.1 update and look at him now. Before, he was a pretty bad character (where his uncharged Rocketbarrel Blast took him farther than his fully charged one? Because his fall speed while charging was too high??? Like??????), and after getting a couple buffs in that patch, he's now a decent fighter.
 

BuffKirby

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It’s pretty clear that K. Rool’s perception has divebombed so much, it’s impossible to notice his extreme flaws. He’ll get buffed. Also just losing hope this quickly isn’t going to alleviate the situation, :4jigglypuff::4dedede: didn’t get anything to help with their standing. I predict he’ll start to get numerous buffs like :4ganondorf::4zelda:: while this won’t drastically shoot up tiers, their bottom/low tier judgement will most definitely be debatable.



If he doesn’t get something positive next update, I’ll be definitely surprised. He’s bound to get something beneficial.
 
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so the updates out and according to people who can read the japanese transcript of the patch notes K.Rool got nothing....wow

does Nintendo just hate K.Rool or do they honestly think he's in a fine place as he is?
 
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Ehh, it's a bittersweet feeling for me. No buffs to make K. Rool better is obviously disappointing, but I'll certainly take no changes over being nerfed than he currently is. Things could have been a LOT worse. That being said, everyone else seems to have gotten pretty significant buffs, especially Ridley, so we could have potentially still been indirectly nerfed. Normally I'm not one to be pessimistic but I can't help but feel a LITTLE disappointed.

Better luck next time I suppose. This game's life cycle is far from over after all.
 
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BuffKirby

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Also K. Rool I’m pretty sure has better results and playerbase than Corrin. The nerfs detrimented his/her kit pretty badly, and debate on this: Corrin might be close to bottom tier. Every time I dabble with this Fire Emblem character, everything feels...underwhelming and more stuff could improve from it.
 

GamerZard

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Also K. Rool I’m pretty sure has better results and playerbase than Corrin. The nerfs detrimented his/her kit pretty badly, and debate on this: Corrin might be close to bottom tier. Every time I dabble with this Fire Emblem character, everything feels...underwhelming and more stuff could improve from it.
Corrin was buffed though, essentially making Krool worse.
 

BuffKirby

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The thing is Corrin has even worse representation than K. Tool ever since the start of the metagame. The buffs helped, but I’m going to believe it’s not going to drastically improve his/her representation. The fact that :ultkrool::ultlittlemac::ultkirby: has more milestones covered doesn’t really paint such a positive light on :ultcorrinf::ultcorrin:.

The fact that K. Rool has results definitely does not signify he is garbage at all. This thread is just spreading unneeded hate on K. Rool ever since whoever started it. Why can’t we post threads on our gameplay, montages, or tournament games? Do we want to improve our Kremling King’s stance? Come on, this thread should have been shut down a long time ago.
 

Call_Me_Red

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The thing is Corrin has even worse representation than K. Tool ever since the start of the metagame. The buffs helped, but I’m going to believe it’s not going to drastically improve his/her representation. The fact that :ultkrool::ultlittlemac::ultkirby: has more milestones covered doesn’t really paint such a positive light on :ultcorrinf::ultcorrin:.

The fact that K. Rool has results definitely does not signify he is garbage at all. This thread is just spreading unneeded hate on K. Rool ever since whoever started it. Why can’t we post threads on our gameplay, montages, or tournament games? Do we want to improve our Kremling King’s stance? Come on, this thread should have been shut down a long time ago.
...you're username is literally exactly what this thread is about.
 
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Scase

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Nintendo has proven time and time again they have no idea how to balance. Sure yes, they can buff and nerf but, they do it with no clue on what to change. I mean FFS they nerfed/"fixed" little mac lol.

You have obscenely powerful and versatile counters like wolf, very good counters like mewtwo that can screw someone up on approach and reflect every projectile. And what do they do? They have barely touched any of the SS tier characters, and buff an already really good counter.

There is no justification for K rool to be in the state that he is, he doesn't hit hard enough to justify his terrible frame data. His armor is basically pointless since he's combo food. His super armor after a couple hits is not worth risking it, if it breaks you just lost a stock. His crown is practically more beneficial for your opponent. And the list goes on.

3.0 came out in ****ing April and the buffs that K rool got, while already being bottom of the barrel, were middling at best. I get that there are 70+ characters but, it's real hard to argue that few if any characters that have gotten significant buffs since 3.0 were worse than K rool in viability.

Hell the only person in the entire thread saying how K rool is fine, self admitted that he doesn't even have a switch.....
 
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Nintendo has proven time and time again they have no idea how to balance. Sure yes, they can buff and nerf but, they do it with no clue on what to change. I mean FFS they nerfed/"fixed" little mac lol.

You have obscenely powerful and versatile counters like wolf, very good counters like mewtwo that can screw someone up on approach and reflect every projectile. And what do they do? They have barely touched any of the SS tier characters, and buff an already really good counter.

There is no justification for K rool to be in the state that he is, he doesn't hit hard enough to justify his terrible frame data. His armor is basically pointless since he's combo food. His super armor after a couple hits is not worth risking it, if it breaks you just lost a stock. His crown is practically more beneficial for your opponent. And the list goes on.

3.0 came out in ****ing April and the buffs that K rool got, while already being bottom of the barrel, were middling at best. I get that there are 70+ characters but, it's real hard to argue that few if any characters that have gotten significant buffs since 3.0 were worse than K rool in viability.

Hell the only person in the entire thread saying how K rool is fine, self admitted that he doesn't even have a switch.....
i think at first you had a lot of K.Rool fans jumping to quickly defend the character and say that he wasn't as bad as everyone said he was

but now it's really hard to disagree with the cold hard truth that K.Rool is practically one of the worst characters in the game(if not the worst)
 

BuffKirby

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Nintendo has proven time and time again they have no idea how to balance. Sure yes, they can buff and nerf but, they do it with no clue on what to change. I mean FFS they nerfed/"fixed" little mac lol.

You have obscenely powerful and versatile counters like wolf, very good counters like mewtwo that can screw someone up on approach and reflect every projectile. And what do they do? They have barely touched any of the SS tier characters, and buff an already really good counter.

There is no justification for K rool to be in the state that he is, he doesn't hit hard enough to justify his terrible frame data. His armor is basically pointless since he's combo food. His super armor after a couple hits is not worth risking it, if it breaks you just lost a stock. His crown is practically more beneficial for your opponent. And the list goes on.

3.0 came out in ****ing April and the buffs that K rool got, while already being bottom of the barrel, were middling at best. I get that there are 70+ characters but, it's real hard to argue that few if any characters that have gotten significant buffs since 3.0 were worse than K rool in viability.

Hell the only person in the entire thread saying how K rool is fine, self admitted that he doesn't even have a switch.....
Aren’t K Rool mains’ goals are to improve the metagame of their character rather than trying to exacerbate these flaws? It appears to me that the comments here are trying to solidify his reputation at being a bottom tier, or worse, state he has nothing good to speak of. If you don’t like K. Rool at all, drop him in favor of a new character or simply don’t play Ultimate. After all, there’s grass greener than this forum we’re looking at. What I am trying to bring up is that he does have pros, even if his flaws are significant. Can a person without a switch still study about his moveset through videos and guides via google documents from labbers? Even if I don’t have resources, I can still keep tabs so that I will continue to know K. Rool better.

If you don’t want me to be here, that’s fine. I’ll continue to study K. Rool so I can improve my knowledge not just on him, but get a stronger idea in Smash in general.

How many notable Krool players are there then? And how many of them are active?

I recall Sunthieron has a handful of notable placements in Smash tournaments (From Smash Wiki). Mr. L is also doing good work with him still. 808 looks like the best K. Rool in the U.S. (also from Smash Wiki). Does Muk still attend locals? I have a feeling he might showcase the character every now and then. Also it’s not just the players from Smash Wiki, LeeSmash4Me is still attending locals as far as I can tell. Is there a thread that shows players that play K. Rool? It doesn’t have to be the big names.
 

Scase

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Aren’t K Rool mains’ goals are to improve the metagame of their character rather than trying to exacerbate these flaws? It appears to me that the comments here are trying to solidify his reputation at being a bottom tier, or worse, state he has nothing good to speak of. If you don’t like K. Rool at all, drop him in favor of a new character or simply don’t play Ultimate. After all, there’s grass greener than this forum we’re looking at. What I am trying to bring up is that he does have pros, even if his flaws are significant. Can a person without a switch still study about his moveset through videos and guides via google documents from labbers? Even if I don’t have resources, I can still keep tabs so that I will continue to know K. Rool better.

If you don’t want me to be here, that’s fine. I’ll continue to study K. Rool so I can improve my knowledge not just on him, but get a stronger idea in Smash in general.
This forum isn't meant to be some kumbaya space where we pretend issues don't exist. And the character is not going to get better just because people are hoping and praying. The comments are solidifying that he is bottom tier, because he is bottom tier.

What you seem to misunderstand is that people still play him because we very much like him. We just don't like him being bad. Continuing to play him and trying to work around his flaws are what we do but, for people to sit here and say "Nah he's not bad guys, just git gud" is insulting. Especially considering you don't have the game and watching videos, or looking at frame data is not even remotely a substitute to playing him.

You don't get to experience the frustration that comes with being combo food, or being unable to react because your character is too slow etc. By all means stay, contribute to the convo but, all you are doing right now is telling people who have hundreds of hours played on the character that we don't know how good/bad he is. You lack perspective, which is turn makes the things you say about him come off as either ignorant or obtuse.

i think at first you had a lot of K.Rool fans jumping to quickly defend the character and say that he wasn't as bad as everyone said he was

but now it's really hard to disagree with the cold hard truth that K.Rool is practically one of the worst characters in the game(if not the worst)
Agreed, I'm not going to say he's worse than cancer etc. But, realistically he's bottom 3-5 of all characters in a game with 72. That's pretty crappy.
 
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I mostly main King K. Rool because he's really fun and heavyweight powerhosuses in general fit my playstyle (just look at my mains in my sig). Not going to deny that he has issues, including bad frame data and lack of reliable options to safely poke at opponents since basically every move is a commitment, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say we're still proud to have this character in Smash period, and am cautiously optimistic about the character's future, both inside and outside of Smash.

Despite what this thread's main topic is we're not just blindly hating King K. Rool, very much the opposite actually. He simply has glaring issues that we want fixed because we care about him.
 
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BuffKirby

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I mostly main King K. Rool because he's really fun and heavyweight powerhosuses in general fit my playstyle (just look at my mains in my sig). Not going to deny that he has issues, including bad frame data and lack of reliable options to safely poke at opponents since basically every move is a commitment, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say we're still proud to have this character in Smash period, and am cautiously optimistic about the character's future, both inside and outside of Smash.
Despite what this thread's main topic is we're not just blindly hating King K. Rool, very much the opposite actually. He simply has glaring issues that we want fixed because we care about him.
 

GamerZard

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I mostly main King K. Rool because he's really fun and heavyweight powerhosuses in general fit my playstyle (just look at my mains in my sig). Not going to deny that he has issues, including bad frame data and lack of reliable options to safely poke at opponents since basically every move is a commitment, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say we're still proud to have this character in Smash period, and am cautiously optimistic about the character's future, both inside and outside of Smash.

Despite what this thread's main topic is we're not just blindly hating King K. Rool, very much the opposite actually. He simply has glaring issues that we want fixed because we care about him.
Pretty much this. We've been waiting about a decade for the character to become relevant again. For him to be worse than 90% if the cast is insulting, so we really want him to be viable but still enjoyable; some of us just express that want differently.
 
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something needs to be done about K.Rool and if they refuse to buff him then where does that leave us? we either drop the character for one that's not complete garbage or we continue playing him despite the fact we'll lose most of our matches by sticking to him
 

StormC

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something needs to be done about K.Rool and if they refuse to buff him then where does that leave us? we either drop the character for one that's not complete garbage or we continue playing him despite the fact we'll lose most of our matches by sticking to him
I'm still having a blast with the character. I wish he was better but no other character on the roster clicks as well with me, I still win more matches than I lose. I have no intention to play for serious money or anything so hopefully they buff him but if they don't the world won't end.
 

GamerZard

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something needs to be done about K.Rool and if they refuse to buff him then where does that leave us? we either drop the character for one that's not complete garbage or we continue playing him despite the fact we'll lose most of our matches by sticking to him
You sound like winning is important to you. I dunno what kind of player you are, but unless you're playing in a serious setting, you shouldn't focus on your win/loss ratio.
 
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You sound like winning is important to you. I dunno what kind of player you are, but unless you're playing in a serious setting, you shouldn't focus on your win/loss ratio.
serious or casual it's not really fun losing because your character has so many flaws it could open it's own museum
 

S_B

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You sound like winning is important to you. I dunno what kind of player you are, but unless you're playing in a serious setting, you shouldn't focus on your win/loss ratio.
Once upon a time I might have agreed with this line of thinking, but considering that SSBU has Nintendo-generated 1v1 tournaments in an online setting, they're obligated to balance the game as best they can for 1v1 play.

This also isn't the SSB games of the past where heavies were pretty much always relegated to dumpster tier. KKR being unviable isn't yet another unviable heavy in an ocean of unviable heavies but an outlier. I see literally all of the other heavies (even Incineroar) more often than KKR whom I barely see at all in any type of competitive play.

But it doesn't even need to be real life tournaments we're talking about, here. You can go into online SSBU and will routinely find players far below elite smash who know exactly how to exploit KKR's weaknesses and dispose of him with relative ease.

He's going to need some fairly drastic changes before he's not just fodder tier. He's kind of on par with Little Mac in that regard: both characters are in desperate need of help and I'm not sure the dev team really knows what to do with them at this point.
 

GamerZard

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Once upon a time I might have agreed with this line of thinking, but considering that SSBU has Nintendo-generated 1v1 tournaments in an online setting, they're obligated to balance the game as best they can for 1v1 play.

This also isn't the SSB games of the past where heavies were pretty much always relegated to dumpster tier. KKR being unviable isn't yet another unviable heavy in an ocean of unviable heavies but an outlier. I see literally all of the other heavies (even Incineroar) more often than KKR whom I barely see at all in any type of competitive play.

But it doesn't even need to be real life tournaments we're talking about, here. You can go into online SSBU and will routinely find players far below elite smash who know exactly how to exploit KKR's weaknesses and dispose of him with relative ease.

He's going to need some fairly drastic changes before he's not just fodder tier. He's kind of on par with Little Mac in that regard: both characters are in desperate need of help and I'm not sure the dev team really knows what to do with them at this point.
But these past couple patches have ignored him completely. This might mean he's a lost cause.
 
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