K rool is a garbage low midtier

Agree?

  • Yes

  • No (please reply why)


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TheKooladion

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#1
All of his aerials come out incredibly late (fair11, bair18, dair14). his neutral game is just projectiles like his side b and his god awful neutral b(frame 30-150) which are both easily avoidable (decent for edgeguarding though). He can't fight zoners, players with good spacing and literally every character that isn't a heavy. He can't even touch jiggly because of her playstyle. His recovery is alright though easily counterable is he accidentally misses the ledge. His superarmor is overrated. Because of how late his attacks come out, it's not hard to just avoid his attacks that have superarmor. And his dash attack is just embarrassing to get hit by because of how late it comes out.
 

Sudz

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#2
I wouldn't say he's garbage garbage, and just that he requires a good deal more mind games than some other characters. My theory is that there are some characters, in an offline setting, which he may be able to shut out by challenging their moves with his armor on reaction, giving him some more control of space in close quarters which limits opponent's options and allows him to punish easier. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to go to any locals with him, so I'm not sure, but that's how it seems to me.

Unfortunately his projectiles are also punishable on reaction by certain characters which is pretty damn rough, and I really wish that there was no forced animation for picking up the crown which is one of his more frustrating mechanics tbh
 

TheKooladion

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#3
I wouldn't say he's garbage garbage, and just that he requires a good deal more mind games than some other characters. My theory is that there are some characters, in an offline setting, which he may be able to shut out by challenging their moves with his armor on reaction, giving him some more control of space in close quarters which limits opponent's options and allows him to punish easier. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to go to any locals with him, so I'm not sure, but that's how it seems to me.

Unfortunately his projectiles are also punishable on reaction by certain characters which is pretty damn rough, and I really wish that there was no forced animation for picking up the crown which is one of his more frustrating mechanics tbh
Yeah he has some pros but his cons over shadow them, making him not very viable for competitive play
 
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Sudz

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#4
Yeah he has some pros but his cons over shadow them, making him not very viable for competitive play
Yeah, I guess for right now I agree that he's pretty much worthless in an actual tournament amongst high level players. Sadly.
 

Call_Me_Red

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#6
I'm the (for now) only agree vote. I am a dedicated K Rool main, and I think K Rool has so many bad match ups that he is nowhere near viable in a tournament setting. Anyone fast, has combos, uses projectiles, has a reflector, or can shut down his now nerfed recovery makes K Rool unviable. You may realize that's about half the cast.

K Rool DOES have a few very good moves (F-tilt, U-tilt, D-smash, Nair, Side B, and Up B). But a few good moves does not a good character make. His jab gets him out of tough situations. Nair can stop juggles, but it's NOT fast enough to get out of combos. Side b is an incredible projectile...but if it gets dropped or reflected once, prepare to take 60~ damage or lose a stock. Neutral B vacuum is surprisingly good for mix ups, especially being able to fall through platforms, but if expected it's easy to counter. And lastly his recovery is amazing!...unless the opponent can counter it (anyone with any spike or good back air). For reference on how much the nerf messed it up, Zelda's Dair beats K Rool's recovery...Zelda's foot has a bigger hit box than his propeller.

I could go on and on, but TLDR K Rool has SOME good tools, but they do not form together well enough to make a good character. He will almost certainly never see a top 8 in any big tournament.
 
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#7
I'm the (for now) only agree vote. I am a dedicated K Rool main, and I think K Rool has so many bad match ups that he is nowhere near viable in a tournament setting. Anyone fast, has combos, uses projectiles, has a reflector, or can shut down his now nerfed recovery makes K Rool unviable. You may realize that's about half the cast.

K Rool DOES have a few very good moves (F-tilt, U-tilt, D-smash, Nair, Side B, and Up B). But a few good moves does not a good character make. His jab gets him out of tough situations. Nair can stop juggles, but it's NOT fast enough to get out of combos. Side b is an incredible projectile...but if it gets dropped or reflected once, prepare to take 60~ damage or lose a stock. Neutral B vacuum is surprisingly good for mix ups, especially being able to fall through platforms, but if expected it's easy to counter. And lastly his recovery is amazing!...unless the opponent can counter it (anyone with any spike or good back air). For reference on how much the nerf messed it up, Zelda's Dair beats K Rool's recovery...Zelda's foot has a bigger hit box than his propeller.

I could go on and on, but TLDR K Rool has SOME good tools, but they do not form together well enough to make a good character. He will almost certainly never see a top 8 in any big tournament.
and that's really depressing to me because after all the shouting and campainging to get K.Rool noticed and put into smash he's finally in as of ultimate and he's just a complete joke against a majority of the cast...

just getting in the game shouldn't be good enough he should be a competent viable character after all the rool fans have gone through
 
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#8
For me, it depends on the player.

Many people told me that I was doing wrong by maining Samus during the Smash 4 days, yet I won a huge number of matches with her online most of the time without any trouble and against characters who were apparently superior than the bounty hunter.

With enough skill and practice, you can win by using any character you want or like to pick.

Tier list only matter most of the time for hardcore competitive players.
 

USAnyan

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#9
Played him since the release of the game and I agree unfortunately. He’s just too slow and isn’t able to be as agreesive as pretty much every other true heavy.

Thankfully though, I think a few buffs through patches could at least make him viable... If not look at sm4sh pac man, people can still make low tiers look scary with enough skill
 

S_B

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#11
I suspect we'll see some buffs in the Joker patch, unless KRool players are somehow still tearing up elite smash (which I very much doubt).

All I know for sure is that I still see other heavies occasionally show up in tournaments but KRool definitely hasn't appeared much except for Ito, from what I've seen.
 
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#14
If the dev team really does care about keeping things as viable as possible, then K. Rool will get buffs. The nerfs he got in 2.0.0 were entirely fueled by knee-jerk reaction from salty social media posts and click-bait YT videos. He was far from a dominating character. Him and Isabelle were incredibly overhyped by the competitive crowd in the first three weeks of the game; they needed buffs, not nerfs (Isabelle did receive small buffs but they were pretty much useless and didn't touch any of her actual problems). My only hope at this point is that Sakurai will step in and put the balance team back on the right track, because salty online comments should never be what determines what you do and do not nerf. Hard data from the game itself is what you use, and according to Sakurai, K. Rool doesn't even win that much.

There was no good reason to nerf him. It was a disappointing move that shows the team is listening to the wrong part of the community, and it honestly concerns me. Hopefully 3.0.0 will correct these mistakes.
 
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MERPIS

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#15
Just a month ago wasnt everybody ranting and raving about how K rool was the “best superheavy in the game”? What changed so much that caused this consensus to go from agreeable to just completely off the wall stupid?
 
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#16
Just a month ago wasnt everybody ranting and raving about how K rool was the “best superheavy in the game”? What changed so much that caused this consensus to go from agreeable to just completely off the wall stupid?
K. Rool was extremely overhyped at launch. About 3 or so weeks after, people finally started to find counterplay, and against literally any fast character, K. Rool is fighting an uphill battle with very little chance of success unless the person playing K. Rool is using extreme mind-games or the other person is just messing up.

He was mediocre at best, and the recent nerfs have only made him worse. Anyone who can zone, has fast combos, and pretty much every swordie in the game can stomp him.
 
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Oz

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#17
I don't think people have a very good grip on heavies and "slow" characters. They take it too literally, and it's like they prefer to settle to the slower moveset instead of working on one of their biggest (which is getting good at close quarters and get smarter at landing, etc.). I've seen this a lot as a Brawl & Smash 4 Bowser main, Smash 4 Corrin main- and now with my current main, Zelda.

I honestly think your character is really good, and would've likely mained him were it not for Zelda. His armour is still ridiculous, he has a good grab (20% U-Throw + Burying past 100%), a pretty decent Jab (quick, 15% damage), a pretty badass F-Tilt, N-Air, etc.
 
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S_B

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#18
KRool is also a "setup" character. In fact, he's the morbidly obese version of Pac-Man (who already has a reputation for overeating).

His neutral options aren't truly geared toward direct confrontation like Bowser or Incineroar. He wants to use his tools to push enemies offstage and then spike them with either his dair or bair.

It may take more time for people to truly master his setups, much like it did with Pac-Man in SSB4.
 

Diddy Kong

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#19
Just a month ago wasnt everybody ranting and raving about how K rool was the “best superheavy in the game”? What changed so much that caused this consensus to go from agreeable to just completely off the wall stupid?
Well to be honest, people have been calling DK the best super heavy since the get go as well. Pretty consistently actually.
 

MERPIS

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#21
Well to be honest, people have been calling DK the best super heavy since the get go as well. Pretty consistently actually.
Ye but DK is the speed boy and he also has stupidly good confirms out of aerial down b
 

BlueJaySSB

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#23
He's a gimmicky character, or as Nairo has said "a noob slayer". Much like Smash 4's Little Mac. I don't think he's garbage. He's got armor, good projectiles, and a good recovery. Just now people know his tricks and you actually have to outplay your opponent now. He's a solid mid tier. You can't change my mind.


Calling King K. Rool the worst character in the game is like calling dark chocolate the worst kind of chocolate.

He's still pretty good.
Dark Chocolate is amazing, people gotta fix those tastebuds
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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#24
Much like K. Rool's initial impressions by the community, I also feel that the premise of this thread is very knee-jerky.

He is not the extremely good character people thought him to be, but he has good set of tools that might let him shine with decent success. He is not meant to be aggressive as others but to be a bit more technical in his playstyle. His armor is an enviable attribute. True, there is counterplay around it but your opponent has to respect it, and you can challenge some attacks with it.

I'll wait until more players start dominating to see its full potential. But if some people think he can use some buffs, then that's cool but I won't wait for a patch to magically "fix" him.

and that's really depressing to me because after all the shouting and campainging to get K.Rool noticed and put into smash he's finally in as of ultimate and he's just a complete joke against a majority of the cast...

just getting in the game shouldn't be good enough he should be a competent viable character after all the rool fans have gone through
Supporting a character to be in a game and at the same time demanding for it be a competitive high tier in said game is extremely silly. K. Rool has a list of desirable traits that other characters would kill for, which sounds great in paper and might have been good enough for the devs. Add to that K. Rool's moveset is very referential of his character. In practice on a competitive setting it might be a different story. I still wouldn't think that K. Rool is a complete loss but if you play this game with the hopes of your character sandbagging tournaments then you are going to have a bad time.
Rather than throwing your arms in the air waiting for the devs to take pity on your main, focus on working with what you have now to see how far you can push yourself.
 
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Pakky

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#25
No despite what has been said, yes he is a set up character that punishes recovery and traps with this specials.

I've gotten up to 3.7 million with him in my time playing since launch. The thing that I would say need to be buffed are the bury (the nerf was knee-jerky) and the Vacuum needs its restored suction length. As for his normal moves I jus think he needs less ending lag and a longer grab.

lastly I think the counter/reflect should cover the entire front of his body and the top of this head, as it probably is the worst reflect in the game.
 
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#27
I'm the (for now) only agree vote. I am a dedicated K Rool main, and I think K Rool has so many bad match ups that he is nowhere near viable in a tournament setting. Anyone fast, has combos, uses projectiles, has a reflector, or can shut down his now nerfed recovery makes K Rool unviable. You may realize that's about half the cast.

K Rool DOES have a few very good moves (F-tilt, U-tilt, D-smash, Nair, Side B, and Up B). But a few good moves does not a good character make. His jab gets him out of tough situations. Nair can stop juggles, but it's NOT fast enough to get out of combos. Side b is an incredible projectile...but if it gets dropped or reflected once, prepare to take 60~ damage or lose a stock. Neutral B vacuum is surprisingly good for mix ups, especially being able to fall through platforms, but if expected it's easy to counter. And lastly his recovery is amazing!...unless the opponent can counter it (anyone with any spike or good back air). For reference on how much the nerf messed it up, Zelda's Dair beats K Rool's recovery...Zelda's foot has a bigger hit box than his propeller.

I could go on and on, but TLDR K Rool has SOME good tools, but they do not form together well enough to make a good character. He will almost certainly never see a top 8 in any big tournament.
Zelda’s Neutral b also beats his recovery since she in invincible and it stage spikes him, it’s hilariously easy to kill him with cheese like he does with noobs :)
 

Pakky

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#30
So ya know picking stage formats I don't want and input lag makes this game kinda poo.

I rather wait an hour for a stage format I want as opposed to fighting someone on an Omega stage.

I would rather wait an extra year for any more content if it meant fixing online.

Every time I play this gets on my nerves, For Glory was by function better because at least I didn't have to deal with garbage rules that aren't fun.

Personal note:ultkrool:

Buff him just a little. he's got better tools than :ultbowser::ultdk::ultincineroar::ultcharizard::ultkingdedede::ultganondorf:

But when you whiff, My god that's it.

Reflect shouldn't be trash. :ultmewtwo::ultzelda: has a big goofy hitbox that makes no sense, give :ultkrool: that.
 

MERPIS

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#31
So ya know picking stage formats I don't want and input lag makes this game kinda poo.

I rather wait an hour for a stage format I want as opposed to fighting someone on an Omega stage.

I would rather wait an extra year for any more content if it meant fixing online.

Every time I play this gets on my nerves, For Glory was by function better because at least I didn't have to deal with garbage rules that aren't fun.

Personal note:ultkrool:

Buff him just a little. he's got better tools than :ultbowser::ultdk::ultincineroar::ultcharizard::ultkingdedede::ultganondorf:

But when you whiff, My god that's it.

Reflect shouldn't be trash. :ultmewtwo::ultzelda: has a big goofy hitbox that makes no sense, give :ultkrool: that.
tbh K rool needs less landing lag on his stuff and his kill power needs to be better, also in terms of his reflect, it doesn't need a better hitbox, just make it last a million years like theirs does, also maybe buff his aerials to be faster, I'm thinking garbage like this:

Nair: from frame 7 to 4/5, 8 frames of landing lag
Fair: From frame 14 to 10 or 9, 9 frames of landing lag
Bair: from frame 19 to 16, 12 frames of landing lag
Dair: 10 frames of landing lag
Dash attack: good god remove some of this attack's end lag its way too heavy on that, or at least make it cross up shields.
Make side b faster and do less damage to k rool if his crown is thrown at him.
Remove most of jab's end lag, I don't know why it's so slow. ITS A JAB

kill power:
uthrow: more align with incineroar in terms of how early it kills, about 140% on mid weights
bthrow: similar to dr mario, about 145%
I personally think dthrow is fine since after 125% its basically a free ftilt kill.
Make fair's early sourspot kill a little earlier, from 170% to maybe 150%

Other garbage:
Fix nair's hitbox, the sweetspot hit feels really hard to hit it feels like smash 4 wario's nair or meta knight's nair.
Make him dash just a tad bit faster.
Let us cancel the animation where k rool puts his crown back on, since this would allow us easier combos out of crown.
Make cannon ball just a little faster.
Fix his bloody grab range ITS SO BAD.
Lastly, make down b frame 3 at the cost of some of its power, this would let him break out of combos.
 

Pakky

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#32
tbh K rool needs less landing lag on his stuff and his kill power needs to be better, also in terms of his reflect, it doesn't need a better hitbox, just make it last a million years like theirs does, also maybe buff his aerials to be faster, I'm thinking garbage like this:

Nair: from frame 7 to 4/5, 8 frames of landing lag
Fair: From frame 14 to 10 or 9, 9 frames of landing lag
Bair: from frame 19 to 16, 12 frames of landing lag
Dair: 10 frames of landing lag
Dash attack: good god remove some of this attack's end lag its way too heavy on that, or at least make it cross up shields.
Make side b faster and do less damage to k rool if his crown is thrown at him.
Remove most of jab's end lag, I don't know why it's so slow. ITS A JAB

kill power:
uthrow: more align with incineroar in terms of how early it kills, about 140% on mid weights
bthrow: similar to dr mario, about 145%
I personally think dthrow is fine since after 125% its basically a free ftilt kill.
Make fair's early sourspot kill a little earlier, from 170% to maybe 150%

Other garbage:
Fix nair's hitbox, the sweetspot hit feels really hard to hit it feels like smash 4 wario's nair or meta knight's nair.
Make him dash just a tad bit faster.
Let us cancel the animation where k rool puts his crown back on, since this would allow us easier combos out of crown.
Make cannon ball just a little faster.
Fix his bloody grab range ITS SO BAD.
Lastly, make down b frame 3 at the cost of some of its power, this would let him break out of combos.
Everything and YES

Also if I've got the Blunderbuss out and I'm vacuuming while someone is throwing the crown back at me, can't I just vacuum it up?

I mean :ultkingdedede: can inhale his Gordos. Why can't :ultkrool:vacuum his crown as a method of retrieving it?
 
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#35
I think he is still good super armor is still good,he’s ok at edge guarding and can gimp a lot of characters by just using nair off stage,he’s mid tier at least and it’s WAY other worse characters than him.
i just wish we had a pro K.Rool who could show he isn't that terrible but most that do attempt that get blown out of pools
 

S_B

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#36
i just wish we had a pro K.Rool who could show he isn't that terrible but most that do attempt that get blown out of pools
I don't think it's really going to get any better until he gets some endlag reductions on some of his moves. Right now, most everything he does invites a punish, especially for speedy characters that can keep him under near constant pressure.
 

Jaro235

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#37
Honestly, I don’t think he is even low mid tier. I think he is bottom 5 along with Sheik, Bowser Jr, Little Mac, and Piranha Plant. He has very few combos that work well, bad range, slow attacks, and mediocre projectiles. His super armor is the only thing going for him and even then, that can be broken, which leads him suffering a shield break. I believe that even Ridley is a lot better than K. Rool because that character can at least combo a little bit and has more useful specials. I don’t dislike him, but I think that King K. Rool is probably the most overrated character in this game. Maybe he has potential, but I just don’t see him getting better from here.
 
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S_B

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#38
Honestly, I don’t think he is even low mid tier. I think he is bottom 5 along with Sheik, Bowser Jr, Little Mac, and Piranha Plant. He has very few combos that work well, bad range, slow attacks, and mediocre projectiles. His super armor is the only thing going for him and even then, that can be broken, which leads him suffering a shield break. I believe that even Ridley is a lot better than K. Rool because that character can at least combo a little bit and has more useful specials. I don’t dislike him, but I think that King K. Rool is probably the most overrated character in this game. Maybe he has potential, but I just don’t see him getting better from here.
Yeah, Ridley has absolutely gotten better tournament results than KKR has.

I believe KKR may have a few decent matchups here and there so he's not hopeless, but when a character can be obliterated with a single counterpick, it dissuades tourney players from putting any real time into labbing that character.
 
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Predatoria

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#39
Yeah, Ridley has absolutely gotten better tournament results than KKR has.

I believe KKR may have a few decent matchups here and there so he's not hopeless, but when a character can be obliterated with a single counterpick, it dissuades tourney players from putting any real time into labbing that character.
A close rl friend of mine actually plays Krool, and I play Ridley, so we've been watching these two characters quite a bit.

It's certainly been very odd watching Krool fall from being considered one of the top tier characters to, now, 53rd place on Eventhub's ranking:
https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

Ridley's been sitting there in the low sixties the entire time since release and he's always placed in the bottom tier on various tier lists I've found online, so I've been used to being "low tier" on my main.

Ironically, you're right though about the tournament results and data backs it up. Ridley is placing substantially better in tourneys than Krool is. I love this data collection project CovertGhoul is doing on tournament results:
http://ssburesults.blogspot.com/

Ridley's #28 here, which isn't nearly as bad sounding as being in 61st place on the tier list would suggest. I think he's been placed way lower than he should be, personally, as I see him as a slightly above average character that has a lot of strengths, but some big weaknesses that keep him from being higher (such as being very combo-able and struggling against fast characters, zoners, or characters that have further reaching aerials than he does).

Krool, on the other hand, who started on Eventhub in the low teens / even single digits at one point, is # 50 in tournament results, and I don't know of any dedicated Krool players repping him up in tournaments.
 

S_B

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#40
A close rl friend of mine actually plays Krool, and I play Ridley, so we've been watching these two characters quite a bit.

It's certainly been very odd watching Krool fall from being considered one of the top tier characters to, now, 53rd place on Eventhub's ranking:
https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

Ridley's been sitting there in the low sixties the entire time since release and he's always placed in the bottom tier on various tier lists I've found online, so I've been used to being "low tier" on my main.

Ironically, you're right though about the tournament results and data backs it up. Ridley is placing substantially better in tourneys than Krool is. I love this data collection project CovertGhoul is doing on tournament results:
http://ssburesults.blogspot.com/

Ridley's #28 here, which isn't nearly as bad sounding as being in 61st place on the tier list would suggest. I think he's been placed way lower than he should be, personally, as I see him as a slightly above average character that has a lot of strengths, but some big weaknesses that keep him from being higher (such as being very combo-able and struggling against fast characters, zoners, or characters that have further reaching aerials than he does).

Krool, on the other hand, who started on Eventhub in the low teens / even single digits at one point, is # 50 in tournament results, and I don't know of any dedicated Krool players repping him up in tournaments.
Exactly.

I've definitely seen some notable Ridleys, especially from the likes of Vreyvus and Trela, but I'm just not seeing any breakaway KRool players that are making anyone think twice about what the character is capable of.

They really just need to reduce endlag on some of his moves to give him SOMETHING he can poke with without being immediately comboed for 40% by a speedy character if he whiffs.
 
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