K rool is a garbage low midtier

Agree?

  • Yes

  • No (please reply why)


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No, because It’s not ok to call someone/something bad because you don’t like it or something. King K Rool might be a bad character to you, but other people might think something else.

Here is an example from my life:

I used to hate Fortnite so much!!! It’s mainly because people would say Fortnite is better than this or that. So I started saying Fortnite sucks. When I went to look for a skin on skinseed, I saw a skin saying “Pokémon is furry propaganda”. I was NOT thrilled that so many people were AGREEING!!! So I commented to those people about why “furries” are being mistreated just because they like animals and express their feelings. At that moment, I realized that me saying “Fortnite sucks” can be very offensive to those who play it and like the game. I stopped saying mean things about the game, and started expressing my opinion more kindly and politely. I got to know why people like Fortnite so much, and started looking at the big picture

Although, the people on skinseed are being really big jerks to me. But I can’t blame them for expressing their opinion. I blame them for the way they treat others because of this. (Stop being friends, bullying online and offline, saying mean things, etc..)
 

The Rhythm Theif

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King K. is currently my only character in Elite Smash, and he's been there for months because I'm honestly too afraid to play him again. I don't hate the character, I'm afraid to go on yet another losing streak with him.

Last weekend, I wanted to improve with Donkey Kong, a real main, after being too afraid to not get anywhere with him. Of like 4 people I played, I could only beat the 2nd one. After that, I lost faith.

I don't want to experience that again, as there's no one else I genuinely main. What would you do if you wanted to go back to KKR but were too afraid?
My best advice is to get started with ProGuides and get a Pro membership. There's a lot of courses that could help you improve your game, and there's even a character tier list, so you can scroll down to where K. Rool is, and get some advice from the videos. There's even lessons from pro Smash players such as ZeRo and MKLeo that you can watch with the pro membership!
 

GamerZard

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My best advice is to get started with ProGuides and get a Pro membership. There's a lot of courses that could help you improve your game, and there's even a character tier list, so you can scroll down to where K. Rool is, and get some advice from the videos. There's even lessons from pro Smash players such as ZeRo and MKLeo that you can watch with the pro membership!
But I don't play competitively.
 

Crooked Crow

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But I don't play competitively.
It is certainly one way to improve, mate. Hit up a small local. Join really good players in arenas. Grind, grind, grind. You can't let yourself get so down, and beat yourself up over every loss or mistake. Just have fun.

But tournaments? Surefire way to get good quickly.
 

The Rhythm Theif

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It is certainly one way to improve, mate. Hit up a small local. Join really good players in arenas. Grind, grind, grind. You can't let yourself get so down, and beat yourself up over every loss or mistake. Just have fun.

But tournaments? Surefire way to get good quickly.
What he said. ^
 

Damned1

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Ok, so i realized that Smash wiki actually added K. Rool's hitboxes some time after my last post. Now, im still not sure if that's 100% accurate, but... yikes, they pretty much confirm everything i said after just looking at :ultkrool:'s matches. Granted, FSmash doesn't seem to be AS BAD as i thought, but it's still pretty lackluster. Note, though, that some of those problems are shared with other heavies (:ultkingdedede:, for example). Seriously, why small/average characters have hitboxes going slightly futher than their actual bodies, but heavies' so often dont even cover their whole hands or sth? Things that stood out the most to me, assuming those images are mostly accurate:

- As i thought, :ultkrool: regular grab is slightly too short compared to his arm's length AND other characters' grabs. Definetely needs a small buff. Even dash Grab isn't that good.
- Gut check could use slightly bigger hitbox so it actually reaches :ultkrool:'s jaw AND maybe cover his whole belly, hm?
- Wth is that hitbox when throwing the Krown? xD The arm he uses for throwing doesn't have any hitbox, but the other one DOES GET ONE for a split of a second? I assume that it's just a Krown that somewhat makes up for it, but still - wth?
- NAir's hitbox actually doesn't even cover :ultkrool:'s whole belly hitbox, just like some people have said. Granted, that hitbox goes beyond his actually belly... but that's even worse.
- FSmash - like i said many times already - needs slightly better hitbox or much less end lag seeing how small it is AND how shortly it is active for. The latter may actually be the true reason why i have sometimes seen "ultkrool:'s fist seemingly reach the opponent without doing anything.
- And so does the Dash Attack. It doesn't cover a lot of his belly (upper part), why?
- Btw, do i understand it right that Down Tilt actually gets some Belly Armor, although for a very short time? Would like it to last through the whole move. :D
- WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT JAB 1 HITBOX?! Just look at that: https://i.imgur.com/9FLL88a.jpg . It doesn't even cover his whole palm, leave alone claws! Why?
- Down tilt MAYBE could go somewhat behind him? Im pretty sure it used to be able to catch people rolling behind :ultkrool:, was that changed or do i remember that poorly?

Other than that:
- Yea, UpSmash needs less endlag in addition to doing more shield damage i've mentioned before. There is just WAY too much time when it's not doing anything, and that's without counting the time after the 1st (and the best) hit.
-Dash Attack could use another hit when he lands on his belly. Or REDUCE END LAG, cus the first thing most likely won't happen in this game.
- I also think the should slightly reduce his main hurtbox. I know, they dont tend to be that precise. But that: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_ISsbYXUAAu_6e.jpg is just too much.
 

GamerZard

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Ok, so i realized that Smash wiki actually added K. Rool's hitboxes some time after my last post. Now, im still not sure if that's 100% accurate, but... yikes, they pretty much confirm everything i said after just looking at :ultkrool:'s matches. Granted, FSmash doesn't seem to be AS BAD as i thought, but it's still pretty lackluster. Note, though, that some of those problems are shared with other heavies (:ultkingdedede:, for example). Seriously, why small/average characters have hitboxes going slightly futher than their actual bodies, but heavies' so often dont even cover their whole hands or sth? Things that stood out the most to me, assuming those images are mostly accurate:

- As i thought, :ultkrool: regular grab is slightly too short compared to his arm's length AND other characters' grabs. Definetely needs a small buff. Even dash Grab isn't that good.
- Gut check could use slightly bigger hitbox so it actually reaches :ultkrool:'s jaw AND maybe cover his whole belly, hm?
- Wth is that hitbox when throwing the Krown? xD The arm he uses for throwing doesn't have any hitbox, but the other one DOES GET ONE for a split of a second? I assume that it's just a Krown that somewhat makes up for it, but still - wth?
- NAir's hitbox actually doesn't even cover :ultkrool:'s whole belly hitbox, just like some people have said. Granted, that hitbox goes beyond his actually belly... but that's even worse.
- FSmash - like i said many times already - needs slightly better hitbox or much less end lag seeing how small it is AND how shortly it is active for. The latter may actually be the true reason why i have sometimes seen "ultkrool:'s fist seemingly reach the opponent without doing anything.
- And so does the Dash Attack. It doesn't cover a lot of his belly (upper part), why?
- Btw, do i understand it right that Down Tilt actually gets some Belly Armor, although for a very short time? Would like it to last through the whole move. :D
- WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT JAB 1 HITBOX?! Just look at that: https://i.imgur.com/9FLL88a.jpg . It doesn't even cover his whole palm, leave alone claws! Why?
- Down tilt MAYBE could go somewhat behind him? Im pretty sure it used to be able to catch people rolling behind :ultkrool:, was that changed or do i remember that poorly?

Other than that:
- Yea, UpSmash needs less endlag in addition to doing more shield damage i've mentioned before. There is just WAY too much time when it's not doing anything, and that's without counting the time after the 1st (and the best) hit.
-Dash Attack could use another hit when he lands on his belly. Or REDUCE END LAG, cus the first thing most likely won't happen in this game.
- I also think the should slightly reduce his main hurtbox. I know, they dont tend to be that precise. But that: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_ISsbYXUAAu_6e.jpg is just too much.
As it stands, though, he's getting the "Unacknowledgement treatment". Sm4sh Jigglypuff got nothing throughout the patches and remains the worst character in that game. I don't remember the last time King K. Rool got any meaningful buffs besides up air being less risky. I fear he's gonna end up the same way.

But I have a question for you optimists: if he's not the worst character in the game, what makes him better than someone like Kirby or Little Mac, two other "worst character" contenders?
 

The Rhythm Theif

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Ok, so i realized that Smash wiki actually added K. Rool's hitboxes some time after my last post. Now, im still not sure if that's 100% accurate, but... yikes, they pretty much confirm everything i said after just looking at :ultkrool:'s matches. Granted, FSmash doesn't seem to be AS BAD as i thought, but it's still pretty lackluster. Note, though, that some of those problems are shared with other heavies (:ultkingdedede:, for example). Seriously, why small/average characters have hitboxes going slightly futher than their actual bodies, but heavies' so often dont even cover their whole hands or sth? Things that stood out the most to me, assuming those images are mostly accurate:

- As i thought, :ultkrool: regular grab is slightly too short compared to his arm's length AND other characters' grabs. Definetely needs a small buff. Even dash Grab isn't that good.
- Gut check could use slightly bigger hitbox so it actually reaches :ultkrool:'s jaw AND maybe cover his whole belly, hm?
- Wth is that hitbox when throwing the Krown? xD The arm he uses for throwing doesn't have any hitbox, but the other one DOES GET ONE for a split of a second? I assume that it's just a Krown that somewhat makes up for it, but still - wth?
- NAir's hitbox actually doesn't even cover :ultkrool:'s whole belly hitbox, just like some people have said. Granted, that hitbox goes beyond his actually belly... but that's even worse.
- FSmash - like i said many times already - needs slightly better hitbox or much less end lag seeing how small it is AND how shortly it is active for. The latter may actually be the true reason why i have sometimes seen "ultkrool:'s fist seemingly reach the opponent without doing anything.
- And so does the Dash Attack. It doesn't cover a lot of his belly (upper part), why?
- Btw, do i understand it right that Down Tilt actually gets some Belly Armor, although for a very short time? Would like it to last through the whole move. :D
- WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT JAB 1 HITBOX?! Just look at that: https://i.imgur.com/9FLL88a.jpg . It doesn't even cover his whole palm, leave alone claws! Why?
- Down tilt MAYBE could go somewhat behind him? Im pretty sure it used to be able to catch people rolling behind :ultkrool:, was that changed or do i remember that poorly?

Other than that:
- Yea, UpSmash needs less endlag in addition to doing more shield damage i've mentioned before. There is just WAY too much time when it's not doing anything, and that's without counting the time after the 1st (and the best) hit.
-Dash Attack could use another hit when he lands on his belly. Or REDUCE END LAG, cus the first thing most likely won't happen in this game.
- I also think the should slightly reduce his main hurtbox. I know, they dont tend to be that precise. But that: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_ISsbYXUAAu_6e.jpg is just too much.
So I'm guessing that's... three androids you missed? Do I hear four?
 

GamerZard

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You are absolutely the thickest brick wall and pure example of a lost cause this forum has had the displeasure of trying to help.
Wow. Thanks for avoiding the point of the highly innocent quote and making me feel worse. You're lucky it doesn't reach past psychological self-harm.

I'm so sick and tired of everyone treating me like this mentally disabled child on welfare who can't do anything or won't listen to anyone. I feel like I need to make a completely new account and start over.
 
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Leoinu

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Wow. Thanks for avoiding the point of the highly innocent quote and making me feel worse. You're lucky it doesn't reach past psychological self-harm.

I'm so sick and tired of everyone treating me like this mentally disabled child on welfare who can't do anything or won't listen to anyone. I feel like I need to make a completely new account and start over.

Almost your entire post history involves asking genuine questions, then ignoring the advice/answers given. Forgive me for thinking thats frustrating as hell.

Can the victim complex.
 

GamerZard

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Almost your entire post history involves asking genuine questions, then ignoring the advice/answers given. Forgive me for thinking thats frustrating as hell.

Can the victim complex.
Then let me say this in the most non-victimizing way I can.

If I'm ignoring answers, I'm sorry. I've just had so many downs with this game that I'm skeptical of whatever anyone says about what I want to try.

I love the Smash series and KKR was the first character I wanted to main, but it's hard to enjoy it.
 

SGoW

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I said this in another thread, but you should try playing games besides Smash if this is how going you're to act. There are so many games out there, that you're guaranteed to find a game that you can have fun with just as much as (or even more then) you do with Smash.
 

The Rhythm Theif

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I got back from playing against Call_Me_Red Call_Me_Red and... I hate fighting Krool now.

I couldn't beat him with anything. But then I played Krool against other players and I couldn't even take a stock. What is this tomfoolery?
My best advice is to keep practicing with K. Rool in Training mode. Eventually, you'll get better with him, and kick some butt with him.
 

MaddaD

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I do have to agree, Zard. The entire time I've been on the forums, you've been on this crusade complaining nonstop about K. Rool or something or other. People try to help and then you just flat out ignore and seem to not want to admit that you did bad. It's gotten to the point where most of the posts in my history have you somewhere or another in the same thread. And you wanna know the best part?

If you spent as much practice and labbing with K Rool as you have blasting him, you probably would have gotten far better at him. A punishment made by you, earned by you, and for you alone, to enjoy.

You don't have to remake a new account, but my advice:
• Admit you suck at one character. It's the first step to getting good at that character. Ask yourself if you're having fun with the game.
• Learn how to accept criticism/advice and apply it to your game.
• If you're having fun: Keep practicing K Rool and then practice some more. Look at videos, look at combo vids, and then practice. Did I mention practice?
• If you're not having fun: Pick a new character or pick another game, really. Nobody's forcing you to play a game you find no enjoyment in. Not unless you're ZeRO (haha)
• Record your games and rewatch them from time to time. Look for moments where you did something wrong and tell yourself what you could have done better.

Now On Topic:

My best advice is to get started with ProGuides and get a Pro membership. There's a lot of courses that could help you improve your game, and there's even a character tier list, so you can scroll down to where K. Rool is, and get some advice from the videos. There's even lessons from pro Smash players such as ZeRo and MKLeo that you can watch with the pro membership!
I'd advise against paying to use the ProGuides, as it's very lacking for the price. No detailed information of match ups, many courses aren't detailed enough or lack any kind of detail for why you want to do such things as such characters, etc. There are better alternatives such as free videos on YouTube from competitive players. Or you could pay $5 on Fiverr. It's about as a good investment.

I got back from playing against Call_Me_Red Call_Me_Red I couldn't beat him with anything. But then I played Krool against other players and I couldn't even take a stock. What is this tomfoolery?
You likely weren't thinking correctly because of having 1 bad game against another player. It's happened to multiple people in the past.

Don't let emotions make you start giving up stocks. Play smart.
 

GamerZard

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Reading that last post, I have no choice but to take it. A whole bunch of Anther's Ladder regulars resent me and have me blocked (Really, ask them), and it's depressing me a lot.

However, I have better mains (Pokemon Trainer), so I might not apply this advice to KKR but to him instead.
 

TBone06

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So he got buffed. The question now is: were they good enough?
As a K. Rool main who is hovering just over 5.7M in Elite Smash, the buffs are CONSIDERABLY noticeable. The blunderbuss buff is massive. The nair is also a welcome change. Those two are most noticeable, but I played ten matches or so, and I won more than I lost AND felt like I was in control a significantly lot more than I have in the past.
 
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The nair buff is big. It changes the whole game. I dunno about him rising up the tiers or him being considered viable, but they finally gave a consistent option to a character that lacked them.

Blunderbuss change is welcome too. The faster shooting is really noticeable, and makes his projectile game so much better.
 
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They're definitely a good start at the very least if nothing else. The croc feels like a entirely new character who honestly finally feels like the kind of character they were always supposed to be with the nair buff making it so k.rool can finally land for once and blunderbuss going from a lackluster gimmick move to a respectable projectile that can be used for zoning and pressuring alike.(honestly having so much fun for the first time in ages with this game just based on how satisfying the new blunderbuss is and figuring out the myriad of new ways to use it creatively. these buffs have singlehandedly shot my previously waning interest in the game back up, no joke.). The f-air change though less major is also something that should not be underestimated as well, as now it has become a move the opponent actually has to be afraid of being hit by!(especially offstage where it can KO or gimp several fighters quit early)
 
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I never understood why people said these kind of things. I don't take back what I've always said: I still have the impression that people base themselves off of online players who just basically use like 3-4 moves (mostly Crown and B). K.Rool's disadvantage state isn't anything exclusive to just him, among super heavies. It's something every other heavy has to go through, but then he also has a super armour Nair to mix things up.

His move frame data isn't even that bad, when you look at pre-patch. Frame 4 Jab, Frame 5 UTilt (that kills), Frame 6 U-Smash, Frame 7 Uair and Nair. FTilt is Frame 11, but the armour comes out at early as Frame 6 (this move can kill at 120-130, centerstage). Fair isn't among the fastest, but it's been surprisingly reliable and staple in neutral for me. Fairly safe when spaced, and can kill reasonably early. Uair is ridiculous, when it lands. D-Smash is kind of ridiculous, too. Move kills at like 60 (armour starting Frame 8). It basically covers attack, spotdodge and rolls, somewhat. Sometimes jumps over grabs, too. And then you add up all of this next to Crown. Since I built my neutral off of normals, I didn't know how good it was until I started using it. It goes through a ton of things, including Megaman's projectiles (arguably the best zoner in the game).

If I really wanted to main this character, I feel like I could actually be doing fairly well in tournament. The only character that really gave me trouble was defensive Palutena, but that's about it. I play well against traditionally "fast" characters, like Pikachu and Mario.
 
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What's superheavy gotta do to get out of disadvantage? To me, it seems nearly impossible.
Jump, airdodge, attack (in his case, his Nair helps), etc. Even just drifting away, help´s.
I've mained Bowser in Brawl & Smash 4, and have also played a decent bit of DDD in them (at least, in Brawl). It's something that will inherently always be there, and the only thing you can do is get used to it and find solutions. Humans aren't perfect, so it's not like they'll always react 100% perfect to every single reaction of your's. People make it seem as if these problems are far worse for K.Rool than any other super heavy...
 

Scase

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Jump, airdodge, attack (in his case, his Nair helps), etc. Even just drifting away, help´s.
I've mained Bowser in Brawl & Smash 4, and have also played a decent bit of DDD in them (at least, in Brawl). It's something that will inherently always be there, and the only thing you can do is get used to it and find solutions. Humans aren't perfect, so it's not like they'll always react 100% perfect to every single reaction of your's. People make it seem as if these problems are far worse for K.Rool than any other super heavy...
Except the other super heavies had other things to balance that out. Bowser has insane kill potential, a top tier out of shield option and is by far the fastest heavy in the game. DDD has range and intangibility on a lot of his attacks as well as a very good nair with basically zero landing lag.

K rool has OK kill potential, horrible frame data, is slow, has no out of shield options (you could argue nair is now an option though), and the only real intangibility he has is on his utilt that most/all people agree is one of the best parts of his kit.

K rool is the worst heavy easily and has been since release day. Suggesting to nair to not get combo'd shows you don't have much time played on him as the startup is impossible to use to break out of combos. The end lag on most of his moves are brutal and requires not many mistakes at all or else you get punished hard.

Yes getting juggled is something that all heavies deal with. It's the getting juggled and all the other stuff he lacks(lacked) that were the issue.
 

TennisBall

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In my personal opinion, :ultganondorf: is easily the worst heavy. Sure he kills and if he gets a read he's dangerous, but if he doesn't he has nothing. Almost nothing is safe on shield, his recovery is so so bad, and he has such a stubby range. Sure, doryiah is big, but he's slower than most and just gets bodied. K Rool now has tools in order to be a mid tier, admitted, a really bad one, but in my opinion Ganon is Bottom 3.
 

Scase

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In my personal opinion, :ultganondorf: is easily the worst heavy. Sure he kills and if he gets a read he's dangerous, but if he doesn't he has nothing. Almost nothing is safe on shield, his recovery is so so bad, and he has such a stubby range. Sure, doryiah is big, but he's slower than most and just gets bodied. K Rool now has tools in order to be a mid tier, admitted, a really bad one, but in my opinion Ganon is Bottom 3.
Honestly I forgot about Ganon lol. After the buffs, you're probably right.
 

GamerZard

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In my personal opinion, :ultganondorf: is easily the worst heavy. Sure he kills and if he gets a read he's dangerous, but if he doesn't he has nothing. Almost nothing is safe on shield, his recovery is so so bad, and he has such a stubby range. Sure, doryiah is big, but he's slower than most and just gets bodied. K Rool now has tools in order to be a mid tier, admitted, a really bad one, but in my opinion Ganon is Bottom 3.
I'd wager DK is the worst heavy. As a struggling DK main, I can tell his disadvantage is easily bottom 10 or 5, with his recovery being slightly better than Ganondorf's and having great difficulty resetting neutral.

And both heavies lack a projectile, while King K. has two.
 
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After the recent buffs to other heavies like k.rool and incineroar yeah i'd say ganon is probably the worst heavy now. To say DK is anywhere close to being the worst heavy is laughable though. Fantastic tilts, decent speed, overall solid normals(bair in particular being a great spacing option), 3 spikes, grabs that lead to several kill confirms or straight up KO on their own when used close to the edge(and decent enough grab range to actually use them unlike some characters..) DK may arguably be the best heavy in the game if anything.
 
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Leoinu

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After the recent buffs to other heavies like k.rool and incineroar yeah i'd say ganon is probably the worst heavy now. To say DK is anywhere close to being the worst heavy is laughable though. Fantastic tilts, decent speed, overall solid normals(bair in particular being a great spacing option), 3 spikes, grabs that lead to several kill confirms or straight up KO on their own when used close to the edge(and decent enough grab range to actually use them unlike some characters..) DK may arguably be the best heavy in the game if anything.
Its a toss between DK and Bowser imo. Its honestly one of those moments where it depends on the player. But yeah if you think DK is the worst heavy then you have a smooth brain LOL

Ganon is somewhat decent. He has surprisingly good edge guard tools like nair and up air, and some decent throw combos. But like every heavy. Combo food.
 

GamerZard

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Its a toss between DK and Bowser imo. Its honestly one of those moments where it depends on the player. But yeah if you think DK is the worst heavy then you have a smooth brain LOL

Ganon is somewhat decent. He has surprisingly good edge guard tools like nair and up air, and some decent throw combos. But like every heavy. Combo food.
Being combo food is, imo, the worst flaw a character can have. While Fox, a lightweight, is also combo food due to being a fast faller, alongside having an exploitable recovery to make it worse, he's still top tier for his fast advantage state.

Heavies are the same way, but slower. IIRC, only Bowser has any sort of "combo breaker", with his up b being super good. The others might as well admit defeat.

Try to prove me wrong.
 

Leoinu

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Leoinus
Just because you have a slow advantage state doesnt mean having an explosive one isnt just as good. Which all the heavies have. They hit you and they hit you hard. Learn to capitilize.

Also i hate to use this arguement. But when a majority of Smash twitter and reddit all agree that bowser and DK are the most viable heavies. Kiiiinda have to take into consideration.

Heavies are the same way, but slower. IIRC, only Bowser has any sort of "combo breaker", with his up b being super good. The others might as well admit defeat.

Try to prove me wrong.
Congrats homie. You “schooled” me in a point I never made. Its almost as if heavies need a weakness of sorts. Fancy that.

Also Bowser up b is anything but a combo breaker. I have no clue where youre getting that. Its a phenominal OOS option. If I see a bowser try to up b out of a combo. In mid air no less. Thats a big yikes lol
 
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S_B

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Its a toss between DK and Bowser imo. Its honestly one of those moments where it depends on the player. But yeah if you think DK is the worst heavy then you have a smooth brain LOL

Ganon is somewhat decent. He has surprisingly good edge guard tools like nair and up air, and some decent throw combos. But like every heavy. Combo food.
Leon's Bowser is absolutely amazing and can take top tier players like Salem to last stock situations regularly if not beat them outright, so I'd say it's DK, then (though I still see DK more often than D3 in tourneys).

I have mixed feelings on 'Dorf: on one hand, we've seen Nairo beat Light's Fox with him to win a major. On the other hand, he's such an all-or-nothing character that I still can't decide where he should fall. He's basically more all-or-nothing than Hero, even.

The real key with 'Dorf is patience: Waiting until you know you have the opportunity to strike and taking it but not misreading that moment (which can be extremely challenging in itself). There's a sizable necessity for patience built into that sort of playstyle and that's not always everyone's bag so it's difficult to tell if it's a playstyle issue or an outright character issue.
 
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Leoinu

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Leoinus
Leon's Bowser is absolutely amazing and can take top tier players like Salem to last stock situations regularly if not beat them outright, so I'd say it's DK, then (though I still see DK more often than D3 in tourneys).

Yeah, I’d confidently say bowser is the best heavy. With DK being just behind him. The rest are a toss up.
 
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