Joker is a perfect example of why 3rd party characters (like HIM) don't belong in Super Smash Bros.

[Arthur97]

We just got like ten Final Fantasy games, lmao.

Yay, games over a decade old (and more like three). One of which still has that notoriously bad translation job. No 15 or VII remake. Just some good ol scraps from three generations ago.

Well, to be fair, Square apparently insisted on only putting in minimal content. Maybe they thought that made it fair.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

. No 15 or VII remake.

We do have a version of 15 on the Switch.

And the main version would literally fry the hardware.

VII is in limbo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yay, games over a decade old (and more like three). One of which still has that notoriously bad translation job. No 15 or VII remake. Just some good ol scraps from three generations ago.

Well, to be fair, Square apparently insisted on only putting in minimal content. Maybe they thought that made it fair.

You do realize what you just called scrap right?

Some of the best reviewed and acclaimed JRPGS of all time. It doesn't matter if they're old. That's like calling Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time trash.

FF7 and FF10 in particular are heavily regarded as some of the best games ever and them coming to a Nintendo system finally is a HUGE deal.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, A Arthur97 you just talked about how Square burned bridges generations ago.

Does the act of releasing all these games on Nintendo systems for the first time ever, surprising everyone mind you, not count as rebuilding those bridges?

 

[BZL8]

Yay, games over a decade old (and more like three). One of which still has that notoriously bad translation job. No 15 or VII remake. Just some good ol scraps from three generations ago.

Well, to be fair, Square apparently insisted on only putting in minimal content. Maybe they thought that made it fair.

Banjo-Kazooie is more than a decade old as well. Does that mean I shouldn't support them? Oh wait. Maybe I shouldn't Super Mario RPG coming to the Switch because of how old it is!

Those games may be old, but they definitely aren't scraps.

 

[Arthur97]

We do have a version of 15 on the Switch.

And the main version would literally fry the hardware.

VII is in limbo.

Yay, another spinoff.

You know, there's such a thing as downscaling. It's not like putting games on the Switch is a risky financial maneuver given it's install base. You think that could at least motivate them a little. I'm gonna need to see more support than some measly ancient ports to believe they actually mean business. Yes, the port makes Cloud's presence bearable, but I still don't think he was a good choice. Especially since he came all the way back in 4 and we just now got some ports. That leads me to believe it's more of a cash grab than it is trying to bring FF back to Nintendo systems.

Banjo-Kazooie is more than a decade old as well. Does that mean I shouldn't support them?

Age had nothing to do with the supports. I'm saying, it's not that impressive. It's a start, but they still don't seem fully interested in working with them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know, there's such a thing as downscaling.

Dude.

The PS4 can barely run that game.

They can't run it without essentially redoing everything.

That leads me to believe it's more of a cash grab than it is trying to bring FF back to Nintendo systems.

It's giving people what they wanted dude. Cloud was a Ridley style meme for a reason. Cause people loved him.

Does that make him a cash grab? I guess but no more then any Nintendo character people wanted.

Look. I get it. I'm a huge Nintendo fan and Smash is special. I get to see all sorts of Nintendo history and take pleasure in all the references I recognize. I can even learn about new games and try them later.

I love Nintendo. I love the brand. I love all the games they bring to Smash.

But third parties are meant to be fun additions. Meant to bring joy.

If the "purity" of Smash is getting in the way of that, then maybe that purity needs to go.



Besides if I see one more person who says Pac-Man had a notable history with Nintendo one more time....

 

[Deleted member]

Yay, another spinoff.

You know, there's such a thing as downscaling. It's not like putting games on the Switch is a risky financial maneuver given it's install base. You think that could at least motivate them a little. I'm gonna need to see more support than some measly ancient ports to believe they actually mean business. Yes, the port makes Cloud's presence bearable, but I still don't think he was a good choice. Especially since he came all the way back in 4 and we just now got some ports. That leads me to believe it's more of a cash grab than it is trying to bring FF back to Nintendo systems.

Age had nothing to do with the supports. I'm saying, it's not that impressive. It's a start, but they still don't seem fully interested in working with them.

Cloud is a totally valid presence in the game, FF started on Nintendo consoles and after Pokemon is the best selling JRPG series. While FFVII is the result of a strained period in relationships between Nintendo and Square, that strain has been fixed since long ago and like it or not Cloud represents the whole franchise as the most popular hero (and in my opinion, he is the best FF protagonist). He was my impossible dream long ago as he is one of the characters I wanted as Cloud vs Link was one of my dream scenarios, so I'm quite happy with him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And this might blow some people's minds but...

Nintendo and Third Parties don't care that much if only spin offs are on their console.

They both still get money. Spin Offs aren't typically seen as cheap throwaways and Smash usually doesn't treat them as such.

You can still buy a game on the Switch (and 3DS) with Joker.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

In Joker's case, he may not be super important to Nintendo, but Persona 5 is obviously important to Sakurai. The dude clearly loves the game and has made it pretty well known how much it has impacted him. I can't say I'm personally attached to Joker as I haven't played any of the Persona games, but I can see and appreciate the amount of care that went into implementing him into Smash.

 

[Crystanium]

I see spin-offs as, "Here, this is about as close as you'll get to the real deal."

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I see spin-offs as, "Here, this is about as close as you'll get to the real deal."

I see them as people wanting to try different things with an IP.

I mean Mario Kart and Sports games aren't seen as second rate. Why are other spin off games seen that way?

 

[Arthur97]

Cloud is a totally valid presence in the game, FF started on Nintendo consoles and after Pokemon is the best selling JRPG series. While FFVII is the result of a strained period in relationships between Nintendo and Square, that strain has been fixed since long ago and like it or not Cloud represents the whole franchise as the most popular hero (and in my opinion, he is the best FF protagonist). He was my impossible dream long ago as he is one of the characters I wanted as Cloud vs Link was one of my dream scenarios, so I'm quite happy with him.

I'm not sure I'd call their relations fixed. Anything Square seems to do is to too little too late. Octopath seemed promising, but it was no FF. Now it's no longer exclusive or won't be soon. I was admittedly quite pleased with the port, but it was still too little too late. They're still keeping their best away.

In Joker's case, he may not be super important to Nintendo, but Persona 5 is obviously important to Sakurai. The dude clearly loves the game and has made it pretty well known how much it has impacted him. I can't say I'm personally attached to Joker as I haven't played any of the Persona games, but I can see and appreciate the amount of care that went into implementing him into Smash.

And just because Sakurai likes them they should make it because....? Where does all this reverence for Sakurai come from anyway? What other director gets this much praise and reverence? Kojima maybe, but even then he probably doesn't get as much reverence.

 

[LightKnight]

Sakurai is the director of the game so ultimately he's the one calling the shots. Not us..
And if your question as to the "reverence" most people seem to have for him was genuine then I'll answer by saying its probably because, even as a game directer, he practically works himself to death for the series to deliver a high quality product which I think few would dispute he achieves. This game quality and dedication is probably even more valued by consumers with the overall state of gaming right now.
Thats just my take though..

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not sure I'd call their relations fixed. Anything Square seems to do is to too little too late. Octopath seemed promising, but it was no FF. Now it's no longer exclusive or won't be soon. I was admittedly quite pleased with the port, but it was still too little too late. They're still keeping their best away.

And just because Sakurai likes them they should make it because....? Where does all this reverence for Sakurai come from anyway? What other director gets this much praise and reverence? Kojima maybe, but even then he probably doesn't get as much reverence.

Thats your perception of things, but SE has released a few great games for Nintendo consoles after repairing the relationship not only OT. Theres TWEWY, Bravely Default, FF: Crystal Chronicles, a few DQ games among others.

It might be a little to late for you but I disagree, its never to late for companies to start cooperating and developing great products.

Plus OT, while not being comparable among the best FFs, is still above recent FF like the XIII trilogy and XV.

I remember you mentioning before you disliking 3rd parties, and in my case I would have to agree to disagree with your perception of things. For me as someone who grew up with a NES and a SNES, third parties were crucial for the success of Nintendo and limiting yourself to ones that didn't appeared on Nintendo would cut a lot of potential interesting picks.

 

[meleebrawler]

Which is on Nintendo for the raw deal thing. They should demand something in return since they should have all the power.

This sounds illegal... or at least a fantastic way of losing friends. It's attempted extortion.

During the NES days, Nintendo pretty much did have all the power. Not only did it suck for anyone trying to move on after working with them, it also made Nintendo complacent enough to let Sega's Genesis blindside them. Then they tried to double-cross Sony to keep the latter from having too much power on their CD add-on, which backfired spectacularly. To say they were humbled is a bit of an understatement. Frankly, Nintendo brought Square Enix moving to the Playstation onto themselves.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Thats your perception of things, but SE has released a few great games for Nintendo consoles after repairing the relationship not only OT. Theres TWEWY, Bravely Default, FF: Crystal Chronicles, a few DQ games among others.

It might be a little to late for you but I disagree, its never to late for companies to start cooperating and developing great products.

Plus OT, while not being comparable among the best FFs, is still above recent FF like the XIII trilogy and XV.

I remember you mentioning before you disliking 3rd parties, and in my case I would have to agree to disagree with your perception of things. For me as someone who grew up with a NES and a SNES, third parties were crucial for the success of Nintendo and limiting yourself to ones that didn't appeared on Nintendo would cut a lot of potential interesting picks.

I agree with this. Even as a "Nintendo First" consumer, if we limited it to Nintendo only, then there would not be a lot of interesting newcomers left imo, and for me, out of the newer games and IP's only Spring Man sparks my interest(Rex to me is meh and XC2 is only ok compared to first one IMO).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

We definitely share opinions. A itch in me really wish Nintendo made Smash strictly Nintendo, the dream is so incredible. I just have a strong bias that Sakurai sort of betrayed the series, what it was really supposed to represent, how it could have flourished on its own.

But watch everyone state "Smash has become a celebration of gaming history."

It really hasn't.

In what way has Smash not become a "celebration of gaming?" Does it show literally everything in gaming? No, but they don't even represent all Nintendo franchises and the games will never be able to represent everything. Including massive franchises from third parties such as Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Mega Man, Pac-Man, etc. alongside major Nintendo franchises like Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, etc. and even including minor indies in Ultimate with Shantae and Shovel Knight. That's a massive, unparalleled, and unprecedented range of gaming. It's the closest one game has ever gotten to being an "celebration of gaming" and it will only get closer to that goal if they continue to add DLC. Just because you don't agree with certain character choices or don't think they perfectly represent "gaming" doesn't make it any less of a celebration of a diverse body of games from a variety of publishing and developing houses.

Also, your "incredible dream" of just Nintendo basically already exists. Of the 78 characters currently in Smash, only 11 are third party characters. That menas the other 67 are all first party. Are there are a handful of characters that could still be added from Nintendo and a handful of franchises? Sure, you could probably add another 10-15 major Nintendo characters like Waluigi, Isaac, Rex and Pyra, etc. But we're only further approaching the limit of hype for first party characters for Smash and we have so few franchises not represented. I'd love to see those remaining ones (Advance Wars, Chibi Robo, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Sin and Punishment are really the primary ones that spring to mind, ARMS is one game not a franchise) make it in, but once you've got them you really don't have much left. More specific characters from franchises, sure, but you'll only get so far before people really stop caring in the same way they have about the likes of Ridley and King K Rool. We're very close to a Nintendo complete Smash, so third party is the sensible way to go.

And if third parties make you think that Sakurai betrayed the series, all I can say is let it go, it's been 10 years and they're not going away. That's not a grudge worth keeping given what we've got.

Yay, games over a decade old (and more like three). One of which still has that notoriously bad translation job. No 15 or VII remake. Just some good ol scraps from three generations ago.

Well, to be fair, Square apparently insisted on only putting in minimal content. Maybe they thought that made it fair.

What kind of rejection even is this? Square Enix has genuinely given a ton to Nintendo since they've come back to the fold, and especially after Cloud too. Octopath Traveler, The World Ends with You, Bravely Default and Bravely Second, tons of ports of Final Fantasy games old and new. Several Dragon Quest titles like Builders 1 and 2, IX was DS exclusive, X launched on the Wii and Wii U, and the definitive version of 11 launches exclusively later this year. Not to mention they've supported the SNES Classic with most of those games.

And we did get Final Fantasy XV in the only version that could run on Switch, the pocket edition. And Final Fantasy VII Remake probably won't even launch while the Switch is a major console and is practically vaporware at this point until Square Enix figures out their own ****, so why bring it up?

I'm not sure I'd call their relations fixed. Anything Square seems to do is to too little too late. Octopath seemed promising, but it was no FF. Now it's no longer exclusive or won't be soon. I was admittedly quite pleased with the port, but it was still too little too late. They're still keeping their best away.

And just because Sakurai likes them they should make it because....? Where does all this reverence for Sakurai come from anyway? What other director gets this much praise and reverence? Kojima maybe, but even then he probably doesn't get as much reverence.

What's the best they're keeping away? Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts 3 aren't going to run on the Switch any time soon, so they can't come. The new Tomb Raider games except maybe the original reboot won't run on Switch. And that's been the case since last generation when the Wii was horribly underpowered (And they still supported that for crying out loud). I don't see how you can construct such an anti-Square Enix narrative when they've really only kept the games that can't run on Nintendo systems away.


As for Sakurai. He's the director of the game and his choices have resulted in Smash becoming one of the biggest franchises of all time including Ultimate becoming the best selling game in the series with the announcement of 13.81 million units earlier today. He gets to do what he wants because under his steady hand the game has made tons of money and the series has been incredibly successful. As long as he keeps doing that, Nintendo isn't going to really care or bother him much with regards to choices. Most fans seem pretty damn happy with his general decision making too as again evidenced by millions of sales and glowing reviews for every entry in the franchise, so again, people aren't going to be so keen to turn on him.

Why shouldn't he be allowed to pick who he wants? He's the main man behind a project and he consistently delivers at least some characters that people want and I'll be quick to remind you that people wanted Joker too. Maybe not as much as the traditional fan picks, but that doesn't make him a useless pick for the community that only satisfies Sakurai. But again, he adds characters he's interested in because all major auteur directors make most of those decisions for the games. You bring up Kojima and you can bet your ass that he oversaw absolutely everything about Metal Gear while producing it. Sakurai's a similarly revered and major presence, so he's going to control something as major to a game as character choices. Especially when he's the one who has to go through all of the effort of joining together these seemingly impossible and separate pieces of gaming and Nintendo into one game. He earns praise because he's managed to do things on a scale that no other developer has been to replicate all while ensuring the games remain top quality products with tons of content.

And again, he makes some personal picks, but of Ultimate's current 8 unique newcomers, 5 were arguably included from fan demand of some sort (Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, and Isabelle who was more of just a generally popular as hell Nintendo pick). Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Joker are the only ones not definitively fan picks, and a Pokemon was likely necessary, so yeah, Incineroar doesn't really work either and he picked long before the Pokemon of the 7th generation were known to the public anyway. The other two he either thought could bring something interesting to Smash, or he wanted to potentially share his own love and ideas to the public. Smash would be a hell of a lot more boring if we couldn't get crazy and out there picks because the developer is constrained to exclusively follow fan demand and public opinion. There needs to be a balance like most things, and Ultimate has done a great job of that.

 

[Arthur97]

This sounds illegal... or at least a fantastic way of losing friends. It's attempted extortion.

During the NES days, Nintendo pretty much did have all the power. Not only did it suck for anyone trying to move on after working with them, it also made Nintendo complacent enough to let Sega's Genesis blindside them. Then they tried to double-cross Sony to keep the latter from having too much power on their CD add-on, which backfired spectacularly. To say they were humbled is a bit of an understatement. Frankly, Nintendo brought Square Enix moving to the Playstation onto themselves.

It's not illegal to negotiate. There' usually give and take in these things.

Thats your perception of things, but SE has released a few great games for Nintendo consoles after repairing the relationship not only OT. Theres TWEWY, Bravely Default, FF: Crystal Chronicles, a few DQ games among others.

It might be a little to late for you but I disagree, its never to late for companies to start cooperating and developing great products.

Plus OT, while not being comparable among the best FFs, is still above recent FF like the XIII trilogy and XV.

I remember you mentioning before you disliking 3rd parties, and in my case I would have to agree to disagree with your perception of things. For me as someone who grew up with a NES and a SNES, third parties were crucial for the success of Nintendo and limiting yourself to ones that didn't appeared on Nintendo would cut a lot of potential interesting picks.

Interesting does not mean good. You said they were crucial to their success, then go with the ones that actually contributed to that success.

I agree with this. Even as a "Nintendo First" consumer, if we limited it to Nintendo only, then there would not be a lot of interesting newcomers left imo, and for me, out of the newer games and IP's only Spring Man sparks my interest(Rex to me is meh and XC2 is only ok compared to first one IMO).

To be fair, the roster is probably getting close to critical mass. Expecting it to keep growing exponentially is unrealistic. And if you want interesting, perhaps you should dig a little deeper in the franchises we already have.

 

[Leotsune]

Sakurai wanted Joker and Nintendo was cool with that, how is that a problem?
I don't care if P5 is coming to the Switch since I have a PS4, and I really, really feel sorry for people like you, who will miss such an amazing game like
Persona 5, but you just have to move on, stop complaining, be greatful we now have even more amazing franchises represented in Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It's not illegal to negotiate. There' usually give and take in these things.

Interesting does not mean good. You said they were crucial to their success, then go with the ones that actually contributed to that success.

To be fair, the roster is probably getting close to critical mass. Expecting it to keep growing exponentially is unrealistic. And if you want interesting, perhaps you should dig a little deeper in the franchises we already have.

There aren't "good" or "bad" picks though. For you personally, sure they may be one or the other. But to expect that apply across a multitude of gamers, especially when most of these big third parties have tons of adoring fans, is a little ridiculous I think. Some people will love certain picks and some won't. There isn't a metric of "good" or "bad" picks for Smash that really applies with all the characters that ever come up in conversation.

And when we hit critical mass, the only real solution will be to have third parties continue guest starring. You have to create hype for characters, and while a new game that makes many cuts may get us an Isaac or a Waluigi, only so many fan bases are going to have staying power within Nintendo. To generate hype for newcomers, third parties are probably likely to be the way to handle a more limited roster. And it becomes real goddamn hard to justify going deeper into franchises when you're making cuts left and right anyway. Some of the deep cuts are going to probably be lost in this scenario anyway...

 

[Crystanium]

I see them as people wanting to try different things with an IP.

I mean Mario Kart and Sports games aren't seen as second rate. Why are other spin off games seen that way?

Is Mario Kart or Sports really a spin-off? Mario is a rather open series, so I don't see how you can determine what is an isn't a spin-off. Let's go with something else, though, like Zelda. Imagine if Nintendo managed to get Link into a game like PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale. Then Nintendo said, "Here, we'll make Hyrule Warriors on your console for people to enjoy." Sure, it might be cool, but it's a spin-off that's really just Dynasty Warriors in Zelda form. Oh, but Breath of the Wild will be for the Switch. Come purchase a Switch if you want BotW.

 

[Izanagi97]

Why the **** does it matter?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Is Mario Kart or Sports really a spin-off? Mario is a rather open series, so I don't see how you can determine what is an isn't a spin-off. Let's go with something else, though, like Zelda. Imagine if Nintendo managed to get Link into a game like PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale. Then Nintendo said, "Here, we'll make Hyrule Warriors on your console for people to enjoy." Sure, it might be cool, but it's a spin-off that's really just Dynasty Warriors in Zelda form. Oh, but Breath of the Wild will be for the Switch. Come purchase a Switch if you want BotW.

I mean, the non platformer Mario games are absolutely spin off titles and have always been classified as such. The common vernacular has always been to say Mario spin-offs to define those non platforming games. The Mario brand encompasses a lot, but Kart, Party, Strikers, etc. are all spinoffs explicitly because they spun-off from the main titles and were different compared to them before becoming their own series.

And the issue is Persona 5 may be tied exclusively to the PlayStation brand for all we know and it can’t come to Switch (and it’s still too early to say it won’t period). They’ve done this sort of thing with Persona before, Arena released on 360 without 4 ever coming near the Xbox brand. I wouldn’t be super surprised to see the same thing happen with 5 if there are unknown issues with 5 proper on other consoles. Atlus wants to expand their audience, and Nintendo likes the big name they get in return. They only really stand to benefit from one another, so they certainly don’t mind. A spin-off is better than nothing and can get players further interested into the overall brand or the main series, which Atlus definitely wants. A spin-off is better than nothing and it’s completely the right of a company to want their main exclusives to remain exclusive even if they let elements go elsewhere. It may not be the most consumer friendly, but it’s also not as problematic and let’s things like Joker in Smash happen. Which is again, beneficial to both companies and lots of fans.

 

[osby]

I don't think "I didn't play this character's game, so it's a bad addition" is a legit argument. Smash has so many characters that people who played them all in their source material is a minority.

Even then, all third parties we have already have their games on Nintendo consoles, so if you want, you can experience them outside of Smash. Of course, OP made it clear that they are not interested in Persona, so I have no idea why whether or not it comes to Switch matters.

And as for "he promotes a PS game"... So what? None of us are in the managing board of Nintendo, why them possibly losing profit to Sony is an issue to an average fan?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

One thing I think people forget is that Sakurai doesn't work for Nintendo. He runs his own studio, and though he works with Nintendo, he doesn't have free reign over everything. He still has to acquire the rights to the Nintendo characters just as much as any third party addition, because to his company, everyone he's working with is technically a "third party". He also goes out of his way to speak with the characters' original creators to get their blessing and represent them the way they want them represented, and working with people like Hideki "**** off Smash Idiots" Kamiya can't be easy. Chill out.

So technically, Sakurai had to strike deals with:
Nintendo
HAL Laboratories
Intelligent Systems
Monolith Soft
Gamefreak
Konami
SEGA
Atlus
Platinum Games
Capcom
Namco Bandai
Square Enix
Ubisoft
WayForward
Yacht Club Games


Third parties belong in Smash just as much as everyone else. It started as a Nintendo series, but the fact they were considering Snake, Sonic, and even freaking James Bond in the second game tells me the series was never strictly about Nintendo after the experiment that was the original 64 game.

tl;dr - Technically, to Sakurai, every character on the roster is a third party one. Stop acting like it's some exclusive club that only Nintendo characters can get in. It stopped being that after the first game.

 

[Crystanium]

EricTheGamerman
Again, really?

https://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012...st-is-a-troupe-of-actors-and-bowsers-kids-are

I think my example is accurate here because PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale is supposed to be a platform fighter. Hyrule Warriors is a spin-off and has no connection to canon. Whether or not this Persona 5 Scramble is canon, I don't know. That might make it different from Hyrule Warriors. Nevertheless, I only hear negative things about it from Zelda fans. Also, "better than nothing" isn't always better than nothing. Sometimes nothing would be better than something not as good.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

EricTheGamerman
Again, really?

https://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012...st-is-a-troupe-of-actors-and-bowsers-kids-are

I think my example is accurate here because PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale is supposed to be a platform fighter. Hyrule Warriors is a spin-off and has no connection to canon. Whether or not this Persona 5 Scramble is canon, I don't know. That might make it different from Hyrule Warriors. Nevertheless, I only hear negative things about it from Zelda fans. Also, "better than nothing" isn't always better than nothing. Sometimes nothing would be better than something not as good.

People who complain about the Warriors series usually don’t know the Warriors series or expect something than what it actually is. Hyrule Warriors is a great entry in said series that pays lots of tribute to Zelda like it should. Spin-offs are not supposed to play exactly like main games, and I think that hurts it from Zelda fans. It’s supposed to be far removed traditional Zelda. I’ll defend the Warriors series with all my heart despite the fact that they’re not inherently 10/10 amazing games, but they play for a specific audience and let people play as all kinds of characters in specific power fantasies for those licensed Warriors games. You either like them or you don’t.

And ok, maybe “something is better than nothing” was too extreme. But a competently built spin-off title (or two, I’d like to remind people that Persona Q is out and Q2 comes out fairly soon on Nintendo consoles) is certainly better than nothing. I want more games in the Switch library, so I do think generally that’s better than nothing.

Also, another reminder, Persona is a spin-off of the Shin Megami Tensei series. A series that does have a deep history with Nintendo including the fact that IV and its pseudo sequel Apocalypse released exclusively on 3DS. Shin Megami Tensei V also got announced alongside Switch and has been positioned as an exclusive as well. All the Shin Megami Tensei games of recent have been on Nintendo too. So it’s not like Atlus is giving nothing to Nintendo.

 

[osby]

Whether or not this Persona 5 Scramble is canon, I don't know.

It will be. Teaser confirmed a story and all Persona spin-offs are canon.

 

[Mischiiii]

Of course it’s sad that there isn’t a real Persona announcement out yet but thats what you get for expecting Nintendo to do such things.

I haven’t played any persona game yet and i personally don’t think i ever will because i don’t like the genre.

For me it’s just important that the characters feel good in smash. I like the way Joker plays and also the fact that he has a unique mechanic.

I think you are exaggerating a little bin by being so mad about the characters Nintendo decides to put in the game. For me the dlc is just a little gimmick. I love the game as it is and considering the many hours i played i already got enough value out of the ~100€ i put into the game + fighters pass.

My tip: just lower your expectations for the dlc and decide if the character is worth buying. Nobody forces you to buy joker and you can still play the game like you normally would.

 

[Bladeviper]

This whole thread is pointless because right now you can buy a game for a nintendo platform with joker in it as a main character

 

[Shroob]

In the year of our lord and savior 2019 and people STILL complain about "Muh 3rd parties".


It's like I've teleported right back to pre-Smash4 times.

 

[YoshiandToad]

EricTheGamerman
Again, really?

https://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012...st-is-a-troupe-of-actors-and-bowsers-kids-are

I think my example is accurate here because PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale is supposed to be a platform fighter. Hyrule Warriors is a spin-off and has no connection to canon. Whether or not this Persona 5 Scramble is canon, I don't know. That might make it different from Hyrule Warriors. Nevertheless, I only hear negative things about it from Zelda fans. Also, "better than nothing" isn't always better than nothing. Sometimes nothing would be better than something not as good.

Context here is needed. Much of the negativity surrounding Hyrule Warriors was from Zelda fans wanting a new entry to their series during the Wii U era and not really getting a true Wii U exclusive apart Hyrule Warriors.

After Breath of the Wild arrived a lot of that negativity faded, and Hyrule Warriors is seen as the most successful and popular spinoff Zelda has received to date.

Of course some Zelda traditionalists still aren't going to like Hyrule Warriors in much the same way they don't like Breath of the Wild for being so different but they're in the minority these days.

 

[Izanagi97]

Context here is needed. Much of the negativity surrounding Hyrule Warriors was from Zelda fans wanting a new entry to their series during the Wii U era and not really getting a true Wii U exclusive apart Hyrule Warriors.

After Breath of the Wild arrived a lot of that negativity faded, and Hyrule Warriors is seen as the most successful and popular spinoff Zelda has received to date.

Of course some Zelda traditionalists still aren't going to like Hyrule Warriors in much the same way they don't like Breath of the Wild for being so different but they're in the minority these days.

Speaking of people being annoyed at Warriors spin offs, weren't people annoyed at how Fire Emblem Warriors mostly pulls from three different games (all but 4 characters are from Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates) and that several characters were clones of each other, including 6 of the DLC characters.

 

[NintenRob]

Nah third parties are the only hype characters left, with 2-3 exceptions from the Nintendo camp.

I would rather have the main protagonist of an iconic third party series/title than Nintendo's D listers.

I really hate this mindset.


I agree with TC to an extent. I only play on Nintendo. And Joker isn't even that unique.

I'd take Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Rex and Pyra, Dixie Kong, Spring Man, Isaac, Impa, Kamek, Waluigi, Captain Toad, King Boo, Midna and Elma over the likes of Joker and half the third parties this board suggests.

This is still a Nintendo crossover. The day it stops being that it may as well be multiplatform.

 

[Coolboy]

this thread kinda makes me annoyed i am not gonna lie.. i find people's arguments as to why 3rd party characters shouldn't be in stupid, lame and just selfish reasons,

alot of 3rd party characters are awesome! and they mix things up in smash with their movesets/appearances etc and the hype for them will be there!
so just deal with it and move on, why trying to ruin it for all of us other people who do like having 3rd party characters in smash?
and for all you 3rd party character haters..instead of whining and crying why smash should be only for nintendo characters be grateful we get optional DLC that you do NOT have to buy if you hate the DLC you get so much.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Speaking of people being annoyed at Warriors spin offs, weren't people annoyed at how Fire Emblem Warriors mostly pulls from three different games (all but 4 characters are from Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates) and that several characters were clones of each other, including 6 of the DLC characters.

They certainly were. Aside from Lyn, Celica, the OC twins and arguably this specific Anna, many were stumped why only Marth, Chrom and Corrin's games got characters. Not even Ike who is the most popular Fire Emblem character got in.

And then even more complaints since even among the three chosen games Shadow Dragon only got 3 characters whilst Fates got 9. DLC helped a bit in that regard later down the line but a lot of older Fire Emblem fans felt they got screwed.

 

[~?~]

The only thing I have against the DLC choice was it was an overrated character from an overrated weeb title.
Also his Counter needs fixed. That is all.

 

[Perkilator]

Hey, guess what: there aren’t only popular choices left. There’s plenty of less-popular choices out there:

-DeMille (Tomato Adventure)
-Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
-Mach Rider (Mach Rider)

And they can bring hype. Not as much as 3rd parties, sure, but they can.

 

[Glerma]

Nah third parties are the only hype characters left, with 2-3 exceptions from the Nintendo camp.

I would rather have the main protagonist of an iconic third party series/title than Nintendo's D listers.

Quoting you cuz I really appreciated what you said, everything else is just a general response.

I have not played many Nintendo games, but I watch a lot of games and have solid knowledge and there are very few remaining first party characters that I am interested in from Nintendo to be in smash, but at the same time I do not care. I did not buy smash because of a certain character or a certain game representation, I bought it because I enjoy the game and playing it. I already bought the fighter pass because for all I care about is new content with interesting move sets and maps. They could get the god damn Google Chrome Dinosaur when you lose internet and I would enjoy it because I play to enjoy the game, not because I want another Fire Emblem character cuz "It is first party and Nintendo needs to stay true to their roots" Like would you really want another Marth copy over Joker in the game just for first party content?