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Jigglypuff=Worst Brawl Character?

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Ryazan

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His only slow smash is his Usmash, unless you only use charged smashes or something. His PK Thunder is pretty fast and goes in such a tight circle that as long as it's behind you it can't be disabled while you're recovering. Priority doesn't matter much to me, since most people I play against don't use attacks to block attacks. If you're fighting a character with more priority, just back off and use his projectiles. The fact that he has so many projectiles and disjointed hitboxes makes up for his lack of aerial range. People who are smart enough not to miss with PKT2 take advantage of the hitstun to recover from it. As for the lag of PKT1, it lasts so long that if you're good at controlling it you can keep the opponent away long enough to recover from that, too. So basically as long as you know what you're doing with him, Lucas is a pretty good character.
 

HiddenBowser

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wow wow and wow. You just admited that the people you play against arent very good:
Priority doesn't matter much to me, since most people I play against don't use attacks to block attacks.
I have never in my life met a good smash player that doesn't care about priority.

His only slow smash is his Usmash, unless you only use charged smashes or something.
His smashes suck and ARE slow. You should easily be able to get out of the way of one of his smashes and punish him for it.

His PK Thunder is pretty fast and goes in such a tight circle that as long as it's behind you it can't be disabled while you're recovering.
You "disable" it right before its about to connect. It works, like it seriously works.

If you're fighting a character with more priority, just back off and use his projectiles.
Thats what I was talking about. Against like everyone the only thing you can do is run away and use projectiles. That isn't a winning strategy. How the **** are you planning on landing a finishing blow even if you do get him to a high percent with projectiles.

The fact that he has so many projectiles and disjointed hitboxes makes up for his lack of aerial range.
Do you know what priority means? The more disjointed the hitbox, the more priority it has. And honestly, Lucas's sucks, like way bad. The only move that has decent priority is his bair, and like I said, it hits downward, not to mention its slow as balls.

People who are smart enough not to miss with PKT2 take advantage of the hitstun to recover from it.
This should be changed to opponents who are stupid enough to get hit by PKT2. And anyways, to edge guard lucas you can just stand near the edge, and if he goes for the edge, hug it real quick, and if he goes above the edge, space yourself so that you hit him back away from the edge right when the PKT2 stops going forward. Its really easy to do.

So basically as long as you know what you're doing with him, Lucas is a pretty good character.
So basically, no, my point still stands about Lucas sucking. His game seriously revolves around running away and projectile spamming with no way to finish the opponent off. Sure, Lucas is fine when everyone you play with sucks as is every character, but once you get to higher level play, Lucas sucks.
 

Ryazan

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Who the hell is your main anyway? Lucas obviously isn't, so why do you think you know everything abut him? I don't claim to, but obviously you do. Why don't we just go ahead and make you ruler of the ****ing world already? And I wasn't talking about gimping with PKT1, I was talking about recovering with PKT2, ******!
 

JigglyZelda003

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None XD
I don't have any local place to play against people for Smash at the moment, if that's what your question was about.

As for whether or not my opponents are any good, however, I do play online regularly, and I play against people who play online regularly, so whatever johns most people have about lag are almost irrelevant. Online is a different, more predictive instead of reflexive style, and when making comparisons with offline, I take into account that there were moves and situations that could have been airdodged, powershielded, or wouldn't have happened altogether if we were playing reflexively offline, so I tried to keep my 'analysis' as movebased as possible, since those are absolute.

...and yes, I do find low-lag (like offline HDTV-style) matches once in a while =D
my online varies but i usually get the short end of the lag and end up in slow motion XD. i just wanted to know if your analysis was more move based or not ty.:bee:
 

HiddenBowser

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Who the hell is your main anyway? Lucas obviously isn't, so why do you think you know everything abut him? I don't claim to, but obviously you do.
Why are you getting made. All I did was debate all your points. So basically you're getting pissed off because you were wrong. Why does it matter who my main is? I've played against a lot Lucas and I've played against Vidjo's Lucas so I know how to fight against him and I know what works while playing him.

Why don't we just go ahead and make you ruler of the ****ing world already?
Ok, sounds good, lol. But seriously, you need to chill out. Stop getting pissed because I know more about the Lucas matchup and I'm able to debate my points.

And I wasn't talking about gimping with PKT1, I was talking about recovering with PKT2, ******!
What are you talking about? I never once said anything about gimping with PKT1. So get your **** straight before you call people *******, ******! (lol, I just had to do that.)
 

Ryazan

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I'd respect you for knowing more than me if you didn't rub it in people's faces. I have nothing against intelligence unless it makes someone arrogant.
 

JigglyZelda003

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Have you ever as or against Lucas? He's got worse priority than Jiggs and that saying something. Like seriously, all the lucas can do is sh forward b wavebounces or however you say that. His approach is seriously like the worst in the game. How are you planning on killing someone? You might be able to get some percent on your opponent with forward b... maybe... but then how are you going to land something that will kill. His smashes are slow as balls, his tilts don't have that much range, and the only aerial that has some range is his bair (which sends downward). Not to mention his recovery sucks as well. Sure its a lot better than ness's but it still sucks. Up b-ing leaves you dangling there for a bit and it makes you an easy target to hit. You can also just attack the pk thunder and it gets rid of it and you die. So basically as long as the Lucas' opponent is patient, Lucas is an easy as hell matchup.
sorry for the double post but Lucas doesn't suck.

Yes priority is important but why try to over prioritize someones move when you can just hit them after or with another attack that has more priority than it? your talking like all his moves have no priority over anything. His approach isn't so bad since why approach if you don't have to. Lucas can just camp out people, the only ones he really can't are Toon/Link or G&W and even then his approach options aren't horrible for a patient Lucas player. you can walk and Ftilt which can also be used as a KO move so he doesn't really have to use his smashes to KO people. His Fsmash is really quite fast, its faster than Mario's, and it can reflect and KO people. their are lots of people's aerials that don't have tons of reach and Lucas' aren't so bad plus who says they have to be able to KO when he's just better on the ground. his recovery doesn't suck. he can tether grab and PKT2 has a defense use for it if someone tried to attack it if Lucas curves it a different way than they expect it to .
 

HiddenBowser

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I'd respect you for knowing more than me if you didn't rub it in people's faces. I have nothing against intelligence unless it makes someone arrogant.
Where did I rub it in your face? All I did was debate every point you gave me.
 

Ryazan

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I have to reply to this here because my thread got closed XD



lol, jiggs is not a decent character, I mained her for a while and I've beaten pro's with her, so basically, yes, I do have the right to go around saying I'm better than you. Once you've gone out and beaten pro's with one of the ****tiest characters brawl has to offer then I'll stop saying I'm better than you, but until then, I'll be an idiot whenever I want :p.
Hmmm...I guess it's skill, not intelligence.
 

HiddenBowser

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Yes priority is important but why try to over prioritize someones move when you can just hit them after or with another attack that has more priority than it? your talking like all his moves have no priority over anything. His approach isn't so bad since why approach if you don't have to.
With the priority thing, think of it this way. When you (as lucas) try to hit me with an aerial, instead of shielding it, I can just throw out my aerial and beat it every time without the risk of getting hit. Thats why priority is a big deal. And like all of his moves have like no or very crappy priority. And with the approach thing. PK fire isn't that hard to avoid and most characters can space bairs and hit your shield without a problem of getting hit afterwards, so while your spamming pk fire, I can just be patient, slowly approach you at my own pace, and then hit your shield with a bair when the opportunity arises, and then just keep the pressure up until an attack gets through.

you can walk and Ftilt which can also be used as a KO move so he doesn't really have to use his smashes to KO people. His Fsmash is really quite fast, its faster than Mario's, and it can reflect and KO people.
If you're walking towards me, why would I stand in your ftilt range only to get hit? Same goes for the fsmash. If I know that that move is possible going to come out, I'm not going to put myself in a position to get hit by it.

his recovery doesn't suck. he can tether grab and PKT2 has a defense use for it if someone tried to attack it if Lucas curves it a different way than they expect it to .
The problem with his recovery is the predictableness of it. You know exactly where and when your opponent is going to be so knowing that, its not that hard to steal the edge or hit him right after his juice runs out.
 

HiddenBowser

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Hmmm...I guess it's skill, not intelligence.
The original statement that sparked that response:
I'm better than you so my opinion means more. Nough said.
was basically a joke because I was too lazy to state all the points why the other guy was wrong. So basically then afterwards when someone says I'm not better than them, I'm going to prove my point by saying who I've beaten, not just say oh, you're right.

Sorry if it offended you, I wasn't meaning to be an *** hole.

Also, what does this mean:
Hmmm...I guess it's skill, not intelligence.
?
 

Ryazan

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I guess it's skill, not intelligence, that you're rubbing in people's faces. And everyone knows that when you claim you did something, it's just talk until you prove it. Send me tournament results or videos or something and I will bow down to your almighty awesomeness.
 

Brinzy

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Have you ever as or against Lucas? He's got worse priority than Jiggs and that saying something. Like seriously, all the lucas can do is sh forward b wavebounces or however you say that. His approach is seriously like the worst in the game. How are you planning on killing someone? You might be able to get some percent on your opponent with forward b... maybe... but then how are you going to land something that will kill. His smashes are slow as balls, his tilts don't have that much range, and the only aerial that has some range is his bair (which sends downward). Not to mention his recovery sucks as well. Sure its a lot better than ness's but it still sucks. Up b-ing leaves you dangling there for a bit and it makes you an easy target to hit. You can also just attack the pk thunder and it gets rid of it and you die. So basically as long as the Lucas' opponent is patient, Lucas is an easy as hell matchup.
What? Bad priority? Sure, it's not the greatest, but the hitboxes of some of them are spaced away from his body; that would be his dair, his bair, and his fair. You can air-dodge them, yes, but honestly, whose aerials can't you air-dodge in this game? As for only bair having range, you should look at his dair and his fair. They have range as well. Fair might be one of his worst aerials, admittedly, but it can kill.

Sure, his Usmash is slow. His Dsmash is also not very fast, but it's designed to punish spot-dodgers. I would think that already having one of the strongest D-smashes in the game that lasts for a while is in need for slightly less speed and a very small hitbox for behind. His f-tilt has plenty of range for its speed, and it's not easily punished. Fsmash kills and comes out fast. The range isn't the greatest, of course, but

I don't see why he should be automatically thrown at the bottom of the pile just for having a less-than-stellar approach. Zelda has an even worse approach, yet you don't see people ragging on her daily for it. Lucas can pressure most of his opponents; he's supposed to force THEM to approach. He can still approach with a FH'd dair, his nair, and with PK Fire. He doesn't have the best approach again, but again, he's not designed to approach. The mere fact that he DOES have approaching options + his baiting is good enough. Also, don't underestimate his wavebouncing. That keeps him safe from people who air-dodge his PK Fire, and it closes in the distance between the two of them, thus shortening Lucas's oh-so-awful approach.

Lucas has a technique where if you PK Fire + double jump, you shoot FAR in the air. It's not very hard to do the PK Fire + double jump technique, and it shoots you so far in the air that you won't need to use PK Thunder after that to recover unless you get smacked back out there. He also has a tether. If you must PK Thunder, you aim for the ledge - he sweetspots the ledge.

Also, good luck attacking that PK Thunder. Few characters in this game can pull off an attack at an angle where he'd PK Thunder (below the stage) in the speed that he can blast himself. I laugh when I see certain characters with good aerials try to jump in and attack it, only to get punished by the tail and then hit with the actual attack in some instances. It's very hard to counter.

I'm probably being biased here, but at the very least, I know that Lucas isn't as horrible as you make him out to be. I don't expect for you to agree with me, but I wanted to defend one of my favorite characters. By no means do I believe he's anywhere near the top, but I don't think he's horrible at all. Sure, from anyone else's perspective, I'm probably talking "nonsense", but what's a guy to do when his character's being ragged on?
 

HiddenBowser

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I guess it's skill, not intelligence, that you're rubbing in people's faces. And everyone knows that when you claim you did something, it's just talk until you prove it. Send me tournament results or videos or something and I will bow down to your almighty awesomeness.
I have a couple of vids in my youtube channel (bottom of my sig) and for tourney results go to Allisbrawl.com. My tag thier is Bowyer.
 

Ryazan

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Your youtube channnel is the single most ironic thing I've ever seen in my life. Not because I thought you sucked (by the way, I half-respect you now-I respect your skill but not your personality) but because before you were saying Lucas sucks you were saying YOUR OWN MAIN sucks. If you do so well with her, how does she suck? You obviously don't think it's dependent on the skill of the player.
 

Surri-Sama

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Your youtube channnel is the single most ironic thing I've ever seen in my life. Not because I thought you sucked (by the way, I half-respect you now-I respect your skill but not your personality) but because before you were saying Lucas sucks you were saying YOUR OWN MAIN sucks. If you do so well with her, how does she suck? You obviously don't think it's dependent on the skill of the player.
Exactly you see Brawl matchups art dumb!

The way people think is nto like a computer...you cant take data and predic a match 100% :p so match ups are made up of GENERAL facts about 2 characters...people can go agesnt general facts in a match...so Lucas's match ups imo do NOT matter because i can play how ever i want in a game where i control the character.

Lucas CAN in fact!
Kill most chars at low percents
Has a great aproach with Bair (if you dont know how dont even continue to argue) and Spacial attack
Has a spike
Has quick low range attacks, which can be complimented with his also quick long range attacks
has a quick recovery that CAN (if needed and you get lucky) act as an attack.
can be a ginger kid


dont point out his negitives because in brawl your options are endless for movment and such so if you cant figure out a way to work around your chars handicaps...you need to rethink some strats :p

All in all if i could play you i would show you what im talking about Brawl is diffrent then Melee and some people just cant see it yet :p
 

Kitamerby

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Your youtube channnel is the single most ironic thing I've ever seen in my life. Not because I thought you sucked (by the way, I half-respect you now-I respect your skill but not your personality) but because before you were saying Lucas sucks you were saying YOUR OWN MAIN sucks. If you do so well with her, how does she suck? You obviously don't think it's dependent on the skill of the player.
I could be the ultimate brawler and win major tournaments with Captain Falcon.

Doesn't make the character any better. All it means is that I'm skilled enough to use him even with his few good points.

Seriously, skill =/= character "suckage or ownage".

I could get my *** kicked as Snake. Does that make him any worse?
 

HiddenBowser

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Your youtube channnel is the single most ironic thing I've ever seen in my life. Not because I thought you sucked (by the way, I half-respect you now-I respect your skill but not your personality) but because before you were saying Lucas sucks you were saying YOUR OWN MAIN sucks. If you do so well with her, how does she suck? You obviously don't think it's dependent on the skill of the player.
Jiggs does suck, lol. Just because I can beat a lot of people with jiggs doesn't mean jiggs is decent, it just means I'm a beast at brawl, lol.

Edit: I just realized that the posts before me said like the same thing that I said, lol, but I'm drunk so it doesn't matter, lol.
 

Kinzer

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Can't be the worst, but can't be the best, but how do I know that, I don't play jigglypuff/get to fight any over the FF. I am smart enough though, to know what potential she has.
 

Surri-Sama

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I could be the ultimate brawler and win major tournaments with Captain Falcon.

Doesn't make the character any better. All it means is that I'm skilled enough to use him even with his few good points.

Seriously, skill =/= character "suckage or ownage".

I could get my *** kicked as Snake. Does that make him any worse?
This is exactly my point, Match ups dont make chars good or bad, espacialy in Brawl where they is so much you can do....chars are 95% based on skill and adaptablity..the last 5% is luck :p


So personaly i dont think there is a Worst char in brawl...just a worst player
 

TheStig

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Jiggs does suck, lol. Just because I can beat a lot of people with jiggs doesn't mean jiggs is decent, it just means I'm a beast at brawl, lol.

Edit: I just realized that the posts before me said like the same thing that I said, lol, but I'm drunk so it doesn't matter, lol.
clap, clap, clap
 

Ryazan

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Jiggs does suck, lol. Just because I can beat a lot of people with jiggs doesn't mean jiggs is decent, it just means I'm a beast at brawl, lol.

Edit: I just realized that the posts before me said like the same thing that I said, lol, but I'm drunk so it doesn't matter, lol.
For the love of God, get over yourself. I've never lost with her either. I've played friends of mine who kick my *** when I play as Marth or Snake but I wipe the floor with them as Jigglypuff. And she's not even my main. In fact I only play as her against those particular people. And that brings me to another point. Do you know why she doesn't suck? It's because when most people play against a Jigglypuff, they think she DOES suck. They underestimate her and get their ***** kicked. Jigglypuff's true power lies in the fact that people always let their guard down against her. Does that mean she sucks? No. But I respect you for being the only person who both says she's bad AND provides a legitimate argument.
 

JigglyZelda003

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For the love of God, get over yourself. I've never lost with her either. I've played friends of mine who kick my *** when I play as Marth or Snake but I wipe the floor with them as Jigglypuff. And she's not even my main. In fact I only play as her against those particular people. And that brings me to another point. Do you know why she doesn't suck? It's because when most people play against a Jigglypuff, they think she DOES suck. They underestimate her and get their ***** kicked. Jigglypuff's true power lies in the fact that people always let their guard down against her. Does that mean she sucks? No. But I respect you for being the only person who both says she's bad AND provides a legitimate argument.
lol at your first sentence :laugh:

are the people you use JP against really good or is it more casual like? JP's not my main but one of my secondaries and i win cause im the better player because in melee i showed JP is strong to the people i play against lol. In brawl JPs not that great but she's far from the worst character.:bee:
 

JigglyZelda003

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maybe your just good as JP for some reason lol. im not doubting your skill, because the people i play against are relativily good (they have little to no AT knowledge) and some people i pick they just flat out lose too even though i don't use them that much. you should make JP one of your secondaries then lol
 

HiddenBowser

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For the love of God, get over yourself. I've never lost with her either. I've played friends of mine who kick my *** when I play as Marth or Snake but I wipe the floor with them as Jigglypuff. And she's not even my main. In fact I only play as her against those particular people. And that brings me to another point. Do you know why she doesn't suck? It's because when most people play against a Jigglypuff, they think she DOES suck. They underestimate her and get their ***** kicked. Jigglypuff's true power lies in the fact that people always let their guard down against her. Does that mean she sucks? No. But I respect you for being the only person who both says she's bad AND provides a legitimate argument.
What the **** are you talking about. Whenever I say something that arrogant and *** like I'm ****ing joking around. Oh, and the difference between yours and my wins, is that I actually play good people. You made it perfectly clear a few posts back that the people you play against suck, so stfu and get the **** off these boards.
 

Ryazan

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I never said they suck. YOU think they do because I can beat them with Jigglypuff. Because you're just that stupid. And don't ever, EVER insult my friends again, *******.
 

HiddenBowser

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Most of the time when I say something that makes me look like an ***, I'm joking around. However, my last post was being serious because I'm starting to get a little ticked off about Ryazan and his "get over yourself" attitude towards me. Sure I'm cocky as hell and very blunt but 99% of the time I'm joking around.

Ryazan, I don't think you and your friends suck because you beat people with jiggs. I think you suck because of this post:

His only slow smash is his Usmash, unless you only use charged smashes or something. His PK Thunder is pretty fast and goes in such a tight circle that as long as it's behind you it can't be disabled while you're recovering. Priority doesn't matter much to me, since most people I play against don't use attacks to block attacks. If you're fighting a character with more priority, just back off and use his projectiles. The fact that he has so many projectiles and disjointed hitboxes makes up for his lack of aerial range. People who are smart enough not to miss with PKT2 take advantage of the hitstun to recover from it. As for the lag of PKT1, it lasts so long that if you're good at controlling it you can keep the opponent away long enough to recover from that, too. So basically as long as you know what you're doing with him, Lucas is a pretty good character.
This post shows that you don't have very much experience in top level play. So get your **** facts straight before you go blaming my posts as being a cocky *** ****er. Also, trying to act all tough by saying things like "don't ever, EVER insult my friends again, *******" is a very pointless thing to do online.
 

illinialex24

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Let me get this over with:

Jigglypuff was slightly nerfed from melee to brawl, if it is compared to most other characters resulting from the lack of hit-stun. She was nerfed because rest is much less useful, however, some of that was taken away because it is slightly easier in some ways to combo to rest, like drill resting. Other combos that are only in melee were taken out, but those hurt everyone because those were reliant on hit-stun.

Jigglypuff's smashes have an insane startup lag, making them only useful after a setup. Her tilts have moderate speed but too much knockback in brawl, the same with pound. However, her aerials are great as always and she is still a good character.

And Ryazaan, you likely are so good with Jigglypuff for three reasons: your friends do not know the style in which Jigglypuff plays with generally, they underestimate her, and she fits your style well. I am not saying your friends are bad or anything, just that they are unaccostumed, like many players, to Jigglypuff's style.

And Bowyer, once again, STOP INSULTING PEOPLE AND THEIR FRIENDS FOR NO REASON! Just because you are good does not give you a license to be a jerk. Please be more kind in the future, because you do have a decent point, however, I do not believe Jigglypuff is bottom tier. She has decent matchups and good priority in the air, and with DI's, she can avoid shield-grabbing unless you use a pound-approach.
 

HiddenBowser

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Jigglypuff has terrible priority in the air. Like so many characters have moves that will out prioritize your bair and fair and as long as they just stick up a wall of fair or whatever beats you its hard to get inside it. I would recommend using pound approach occasionally because, as long as you space it right, it will out prioritize a ton of stuff and you won't get shield grabbed because the range is large enough.
 

illinialex24

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Jigglypuff has terrible priority in the air. Like so many characters have moves that will out prioritize your bair and fair and as long as they just stick up a wall of fair or whatever beats you its hard to get inside it. I would recommend using pound approach occasionally because, as long as you space it right, it will out prioritize a ton of stuff and you won't get shield grabbed because the range is large enough.

Umm... Jigglypuff has pretty good aerial priority... And the pound approach generally can be shield grabbed...
 

HiddenBowser

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Umm... Jigglypuff has terrible aerial priority... And the pound approach generally can't be shield grabbed if you space yourself right...
 

Jigglymaster

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Multi Air Dodge just screwes up jiggs big time. She can't do those U air juggling any more cause of that dumb airdodge.
 

Ryazan

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Bowyer, I've told you several times that I respect everything about you except your cocky attitude. I don't care if you're just trying to be funny, and I'm sure no one else does. If you want respect, don't act like that, because even the most innocent jokes can get people into trouble if they're interpreted the wrong way. I also don't care that I know less about the game than you do, so stop trying to use that to win this argument. And if you have friends, you would understand why I'm so protective of them, online or offline.
 
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