Jigglypuff Matchup #9: Falco

[illinialex24]

Please discuss Jigglypuff's potential, strategy and stage counterpicks here.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Duck more. Get good at powersheilding. You can't approach in the air very well because of the lasers, and he will take any chance to run away with sideB. Learn to predict it, and Nair/Dair through it. His boost smash kills pretty fast, and it's one of the few ways he'll actually kill. His Bair is also a killer. His Fsmash isn't too much of a problem, but it's deadly if we mess up. His Dsmash shouldn't really ever hurt us. Get him offstage, and Nair against the Phantasam if you can. Overall, he is a ***** to approach, and only easy to gimp if he is below the stage. At least if you are up in his face, he has a little bit of an issue, and we can generally kill him faster that he can kill us.

7/3 for Falco

 

[*JuriHan*]

Jigglypuff can kill Falco earlier than Falco can kill her but his laser spam can really ruin some of her aerial approaches.

 

[PND]

60-40 to 65-35 Falco's favor

Lasers limit our options, watch out for dash attack up smash. Reflector can be used to screw with our spacing. It's really hard to approach with the lasers, nairs and bairs. Airdodge well, and bair him. Pound won't do much here, you'll pop him straight up and he'll dair / nair you. Off the edge, you should be able to kill him. Nair to stop illusion, bair or dair to take him out if he has to use his Up B.

Play patient, use lots of airdodges, and if you can get away with it, plank the **** out of him. Get into medium range, Jiggs is comfortable there, Falco isn't. Mix up your game.

Veril, can we get some rest data here? ^_^

 

[Spoonbob]

watch out for his dair offstage. o:

 

[Vanst]

Jigglypuff can kill Falco earlier than Falco can kill her but his laser spam can really ruin some of her aerial approaches.

"Jigglypuff can kill Falco earlier than Falco can kill her." Really?...How so?

 

[RhedKing]

He shoots his lasers faster when he's in the air, the become a wall of insane hit stun.
He practically shoots two lasers when he's about to land, and then lands with another laser. The short hop laser game makes falco beyond stupid.

anyway it's a real pain for jiggs to do this so 70-30 falco's favor.

 

[Hyo]

This is a difficult match for Jiggly because she has no projectile to speak of. Good luck trying to get a rest off, because Falco will not let something like that happen.

Dair, bair, and nair are great aerials to use against jigglypuff, and all Falco has to do is avoid a Dair when approaching from under.

Jigglypuff's fair and bair and annoying off stage, but should pose no threat to Falco on stage as he can camp until boost smash percentages then take the kill. Even before then, Falco can probably get a Fsmash off for early kills.

7:3

 

[RhedKing]

Sounds about right. really this is a hard match up for jiggs.

 

[Cross.]

Falco can kill with his Utilt and Dtilt at an average of 160% on most characters. I don't know the exact percent for jiggs but since shes so light probably about 120-130. Its something you should watch out for since it catches alot of people offgaurd since they expect a Usmash/Boost smash/Fsmah kill. If falco spot dodges you watch out for an uptilt. He can also Jab->Dtilt so watch out for that.

 

[Airgemini]

On stage Falco the match is in his favor, offstage Jigglpuff's. Gimping him is fun, Nair stops Side B.
For approaching while he's shooting lazers, approach with sheild so you can perfect sheild. I'd also assume approaching with airdodges might be good.

Advice to Falco, dont use Jab as a multihit attack lol.

60:40 Falco.

 

[Veril]

Good luck trying to get a rest off, because Falco will not let something like that happen.

Falco is one of the easier characters to rest once you get through the wall of spam.

 

[Maniclysane]

Falco can kill with his Utilt and Dtilt at an average of 160% on most characters. I don't know the exact percent for jiggs but since shes so light probably about 120-130. Its something you should watch out for since it catches alot of people offgaurd since they expect a Usmash/Boost smash/Fsmah kill. If falco spot dodges you watch out for an uptilt. He can also Jab->Dtilt so watch out for that.

Bull****. Something as crappy as dtilt wouldn't kill Jigglypuff at 120. I don't know how light you think she is, but I doubt anything like that would kill her. On top of all that, the hitbox is bad and right on the ground, somewhere Jigglypuff isn't.

 

[Airgemini]

For stage Cp I'd say Green Greens would be fairly nice.

Pros:

• Short blast zones allow earlier kills
• Blocks on the sides allow his camp game less effective
• The stage is small itself so the lazers are less effective here as well
• Fair will kill earlier
• Rest will kill much earlier
• WoP is more deadly

Cons:

• You'll die relatively early

Rainbow Cruise could be nice as well, his recovery is almost useless and Jigglypuff can stall in the air forever, and WoP is more effective here. Also his lazers are almost zero effective. The only trouble I see for Jigglypuff is maybe not landing Rest at all or very little, also KOs might become more difficult.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Ready? Go!
*Match starts*
*duck*
*lazas fly overhead*
"Hm... I cant't hit him."
*Uses d-tilts*
"What? he is taunting me? o_O"
*Charges full speed at jigglypuff*
*Uses rest when Falco overlaps with an attack*
"OMGWTFHAX!!!!1"

 

[RhedKing]

The massive thing your overlooking with green greens is the bomb blocks. With his range attack falco can blow up those pillars at any time and take no damage. He can also use his reflector shield on them to stun jiggs and blow her up with the pillar of blocks.

jigglypuff can do no such thing here, and the stage is a huge advantage for falco.

IMO bring falco to Brinstar. The stage is great for jiggs sharking. It helps her keep bair stale and fair fresh with platform sandbagging in between stocks.

Uairing the midle of the stage separates it into two parts. this essentially makes the stage only plat forms, all of which jiggs can shark like crazy. falco doesn't like getting sharked an it was my only effective way of getting safe damage against Illin's falco (gg's by the way) without fear of block or grab.

Falco can CG jiggs up to about 30%. that's another thing to stay away from fresh stalk.

 

[Veril]

Alex, we should play a few rounds later or tomorrow. Jiggs vs. Falco. I'm getting better at wifi.

 

[Metatitan]

The massive thing your overlooking with green greens is the bomb blocks. With his range attack falco can blow up those pillars at any time and take no damage. He can also use his reflector shield on them to stun jiggs and blow her up with the pillar of blocks.

jigglypuff can do no such thing here, and the stage is a huge advantage for falco.

IMO bring falco to Brinstar. The stage is great for jiggs sharking. It helps her keep bair stale and fair fresh with platform sandbagging in between stocks.

Uairing the midle of the stage separates it into two parts. this essentially makes the stage only plat forms, all of which jiggs can shark like crazy. falco doesn't like getting sharked an it was my only effective way of getting safe damage against Illin's falco (gg's by the way) without fear of block or grab.

Falco can CG jiggs up to about 30%. that's another thing to stay away from fresh stalk.

forgetting that he can use dair and spike you if u try sharking? Other than that sounds good but i think Rainbow Cruise may be the way to go. While you're at risk from being spiked u can take advantage of his crappy recovery.

 

[RhedKing]

forgetting that he can use dair and spike you if u try sharking? Other than that sounds good but i think Rainbow Cruise may be the way to go. While you're at risk from being spiked u can take advantage of his crappy recovery.

Not if you shark properly he won't.
Rainbow cruise does sound pretty good for this.

ok yeah Rainbow Cruise is the way to go. Falco failboats at rainbow cruise, and it cuts his lazer spam to near nothing.

 

[Veril]

This matchup isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be (back me up plz Glick). If you're in the lead, all you need to do to force an approach is CROUCH.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

This matchup isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be (back me up plz Glick). If you're in the lead, all you need to do to force an approach is CROUCH.

Characters like MK, ike, lucas, marth, and ness have crouches that don't do anything. They make up for it by having great d-tilts. Jugglyouff has a useful crouch, but a horrible d-tilt. Some have crawls which is like jigglypuff's (not wario's) except instead of forcing an approach, you can approach THEM without being camped.

Squirtle's crouch is amazing. Against Gdorf he is un touchable. (only with cpus)
(yes alex, here is your vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYqlsu_pvFs&feature=channel_page)

 

[PND]

You can DACUS out of crouch, FYI.

 

[Veril]

Characters like MK, ike, lucas, marth, and ness have crouches that don't do anything. They make up for it by having great d-tilts. Jugglyouff has a useful crouch, but a horrible d-tilt. Some have crawls which is like jigglypuff's (not wario's) except instead of forcing an approach, you can approach THEM without being camped.

Squirtle's crouch is amazing. Against Gdorf he is un touchable. (only with cpus)
(yes alex, here is your vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYqlsu_pvFs&feature=channel_page)

Entire post is irrelevant as explained by...

You can DACUS out of crouch, FYI.

Of course the Snake main would know this. You could also dash-attack normally, pivot boost grab, grab normally, rest, etc. Anything but that useless d-tilt.


If you've got the lead. Crouch. We hate those lasers, so why try to approach when you don't have to?

 

[Thinkaman]

Yeah, Falco isn't that bad, he's like a less terrifying Fox to Jigglypuff really. Possibly one of the only matchups that is better for Fox!

Oh, and never counter-pick Green Greens. If you do, and the opponent is remotely good with G&W, you are basically going to lose as Jigglypuff. CP Brinstar...

 

[illinialex24]

Entire post is irrelevant as explained by...



Of course the Snake main would know this. You could also dash-attack normally, pivot boost grab, grab normally, rest, etc. Anything but that useless d-tilt.


If you've got the lead. Crouch. We hate those lasers, so why try to approach when you don't have to?

If he SH's or you know he will, DACUS his face even if you have the lead. He's gonna be lasering out of the SH so he's very vulnerable.

 

[RhedKing]

Yeah, Falco isn't that bad, he's like a less terrifying Fox to Jigglypuff really. Possibly one of the only matchups that is better for Fox!

Oh, and never counter-pick Green Greens. If you do, and the opponent is remotely good with G&W, you are basically going to lose as Jigglypuff. CP Brinstar...

YEAH BRINSTAR!

Quickly become my favorite stage.

[johns]
I didn't know you could do anything out of crouch, that would have help me a lot vrs alex.
[/johns]

Well if you can DACUS from crouch, or do anything for that matter, than I'd say maybe not 60:40 but more 55:45, advantage is still falco though.

 

[:mad:]

To be quite honest, I don't go Brinstar very often, but when I face Falcos, I'll consider it now. Japes is out of the question, though.

Lasers aren't much of a problem with me, SH Nair when I crouch and force the Falco to approach. That usually keeps the fight close enough to where the Falco player avoids lasers. Offstage, Falco could possibly run right into a Jiggly dair trying to recover.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

YEAH BRINSTAR!

Quickly become my favorite stage.

[johns]
I didn't know you could do anything out of crouch, that would have help me a lot vrs alex.
[/johns]

Well if you can DACUS from crouch, or do anything for that matter, than I'd say maybe not 60:40 but more 55:45, advantage is still falco though.

To be quite honest, I don't go Brinstar very often, but when I face Falcos, I'll consider it now. Japes is out of the question, though.

Lasers aren't much of a problem with me, SH Nair when I crouch and force the Falco to approach. That usually keeps the fight close enough to where the Falco player avoids lasers. Offstage, Falco could possibly run right into a Jiggly dair trying to recover.

I agree brinstar is one of the best counterpicks against falco.

55:45

Not very hard, but falco has an advantage. You can also rest through his side B if you can time it good enough.

 

[illinialex24]

I am looking for more Falco's to come in here. I really want six pages of dicussion before I do a writeup.

 

[:mad:]

Yeah, and you really should make some kind of archive, linking all of these threads together.
It's pretty unorganized. I can actually make the archive.

 

[Vlade]

Sorry I'm late lol.

My views on the match-up (I'll refer to jiggs as she, if that's ok):

One thing that falco cannot do in this match-up is chaingrab. So dthrow follow-ups are going to be a staple.

Jiggs is forced to approach falco due to his superior projectiles, and she's going to have a hard time approaching. Your best bet would probably be to powershield the lasers, then go for retreating fairs in the falco's face. Jigglypuff's best bet would be to fight up close since I don't think she has many moves than can outrange falco's main moves (jab, ftilt, bair, etc)

One aspect of this match-up that jiggs truly shines in is off-stage. If you think falco is going to phantasm, just nair. The lingering hitbox will punish it and send him back out, possibly forcing him to use firebird. So when you get the chance, be as aggressive as possible off-stage because that's the one thing that jiggs really has going for her.

As for stages, all I know is that falco would probably want to go FD or BF. FD promotes camping, while BF hinders Jigglypuff's approaches, and is a great overall falco stage. I know Jiggs likes Japes, but falco likes it as well, even without the 0-death since he can just camp the main platform and dominate. I'm thinking rainbow cruise might be a good asset for Jiggs, but I've hardly versed any serious Jigglypuff players so I can't be sure.

Overall, falco entirely outcamps and outspaces Jiggs, while Jiggs needs to rely on her off-stage combat to really deal damage.

60:40 or 65:35 falco's favour.

 

[:mad:]

Sorry I'm late lol.

My views on the match-up (I'll refer to jiggs as she, if that's ok):

One thing that falco cannot do in this match-up is chaingrab. So dthrow follow-ups are going to be a staple.

Jiggs is forced to approach falco due to his superior projectiles, and she's going to have a hard time approaching. Your best bet would probably be to powershield the lasers, then go for retreating fairs in the falco's face. Jigglypuff's best bet would be to fight up close since I don't think she has many moves than can outrange falco's main moves (jab, ftilt, bair, etc)

One aspect of this match-up that jiggs truly shines in is off-stage. If you think falco is going to phantasm, just nair. The lingering hitbox will punish it and send him back out, possibly forcing him to use firebird. So when you get the chance, be as aggressive as possible off-stage because that's the one thing that jiggs really has going for her.

As for stages, all I know is that falco would probably want to go FD or BF. FD promotes camping, while BF hinders Jigglypuff's approaches, and is a great overall falco stage. I know Jiggs likes Japes, but falco likes it as well, even without the 0-death since he can just camp the main platform and dominate. I'm thinking rainbow cruise might be a good asset for Jiggs, but I've hardly versed any serious Jigglypuff players so I can't be sure.

Overall, falco entirely outcamps and outspaces Jiggs, while Jiggs needs to rely on her off-stage combat to really deal damage.

60:40 or 65:35 falco's favour.

Good read, Vlade. This pretty much sums up the matchup, but due to Jiggs offstage advantage, your Falco isn't coming back.

60:40 sounds about right. But on Brinstar, it's a different game.

Heha, "favour". You silly Australians.

 

[Vlade]

australian lingo ftw.

But yes, I forgot about Brinstar being another good Jiggs stage against falco.

 

[:mad:]

australian lingo ftw.

But yes, I forgot about Brinstar being another good Jiggs stage against falco.

Well, on Brinstar especially, utilt kills Falco fairly early. Fair and bair can take him out early, but Jiggs can also be taken out even earlier. It does eliminate Falco's laser game, though, which is less stressful on us. Overall, if we can just avoid a Falco bair, this stage really does help this matchup, so no secondaries here.

Lol Australia.

The only way to get around this match really would be to CP Brinstar. Other than that, Falco has this locked down. That's pretty much the entire discussion, thanks for taking the time to post, Vlade.

 

[PND]

Favour is also Canadian and British, so it's you Yanks who are hilarious. DON'T LOOK DOWN ON US!

Vlade is completely correct (and I notice his numbers coincide with mine ^_^ ) I can't find fault at all with what he said.

For levels, Brinstar, Rainbow, and Frigate. Those are the counterpicks I like. I'll try and get Lylat or Yoshis for the the first match if I can, as I prefer to fight Falco on those neutrals. Smashville is probably the most neutral stage for the first round, and I've found myself ending up with it more often than not. Strike BF and FD, basically.

 

[:mad:]

I think of favour as more British, but whatever works for you. No hate, I just like how the 'u' is there to do nothing.

This is one of the harder matchups, but it's manageable. It's 50:50 if you're on Brinstar, lol.

 

[PND]

We have the advantage on Brinstar lol, that's the point of a counterpick stage.

 

[RhedKing]

BRINSTAR!!!

YEAH!!!!

jigglypuff sharks hard on brinstar. Falco doesn't

it's a huge help for her game

 

[:mad:]

Yup. I thought this was a doomed matchup until I thought of Brinstar.
Not one of Falco's better stages, this is perfect for us. Fair and utilt can kill reallyyyy early on Falco. Rollout can't really be used. Still, fantastic stage for Jiggs, probably the first one you should CP. And if you lose here, you really should use a secondary, lol.

 

[PND]

@Rhed: Falco's dair = GG Sharking. lol. Be careful if you shark, and use it sparingly.