Jigglypuff Matchup #7: Olimar

[kirbywizard]

hm wow the discussion here seems like it will never end, one other thing is the pikmin whip comes out quick enough to beat jigglypuff to the edge if both characters off the stage. Also purple pikmin make it much to easy to ko jigglypuff player. But yes much of the information is being repeated and some new information every 5 so post. BUt we can all say its in oli favor

 

[SR-71]

face to face, out on FD
hangin' tough, keepin' fair fresh.
they stack the pikmin 'til we take to the sky
for we float with the skill to survive

it's the eye of the jigglypuff, it's the cream of the fight
risin' up to the challenge of o-liiimar
and the last known jigglypuff stalks pikmin in the night
and she's watchin' us all in the eeeyyyeee
of the jigglypuff.

risin' up, straight to Orpheon,
cuz he can fight, but not recovery.
went the distance now she's not gonna stop
just a jigglypuff and her will to survive..

 

[Veril]

Oh lawd, I'm going to have to pick this apart. Sorry Veril. <3

1. No... Oh, and lol. If you're going to pull "Jiggz will never be above Olimar" then we can pull "Olimar will never be offstage because he stays in the center." Or, we can say "Olimar never dies because of his Whistle." Olimar ***** all theory. Like he ***** Jigglypuff

2. dsmash ***** your waveland stuff

3. We'll ban Orpheon. Japes doesn't **** Olimar as hard as you make it out to be. We can camp the hell out of you.

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to respond.

1. The difference between my statement and your is that mine isn't complete b***s***. Give me a f***ing break, my stating that Jigglypuff players can use the a-stick is not equivalent to stating that Olimar is immune to knockback and immortal. You sound like a Yoshi main with this rabid Olimar love crap. His recovery is the s*** **** out of a s***-eating s*** beast. 90% of people here read that and laughed their a**es off because of how absurd a statement it was.

Whistle armor doesn't mean s*** if you have to use your up-b. Olimar isn't super-heavy, it isn't unrealistic to believe that he could be hit far enough to require the up-b. Jiggs can and will edgehog him. To say otherwise is...


2. STFU. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Wavelanding only leaves a 2 frame window for you to hit Jiggs... seeing as the d-smash isn't a magical instant Sonic pikmin cannon a waveland will usually result in a powershield, followed by a grab.

Olimar's d-smash ≠ GW's f-smash


3. I think just about every other player here disagrees with that statement.


As in the Yoshi thread, I'm out because I don't care enough to respond again.

i kinda agree.. even a lvl.9 cpu shows that olimar can **** jiggly in the air

This is why the discussion should end.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

face to face, out on FD
hangin' tough, keepin' fair fresh.
they stack the pikmin 'til we take to the sky
for we float with the skill to survive

it's the eye of the jigglypuff, it's the cream of the fight
risin' up to the challenge of o-liiimar
and the last known jigglypuff stalks pikmin in the night
and she's watchin' us all in the eeeyyyeee
of the jigglypuff.

risin' up, straight to Orpheon,
cuz he can fight, but not recovery.
went the distance now she's not gonna stop
just a jigglypuff and her will to survive..

wow...

That about sums up the matchup.

And watch your syllables. They are very un even on some lines.

 

[PND]

Smart Olimar's DI up. It's actually really hard to put a good Olimar into a bad recovery position 'cuz of it. >_> Jiggs can capitalize on it, but really, Olimar is too **** floaty. He can save his jump and just slowly drift towards the level and there's jack **** we can do about it. If we go towards him, he'll either air dodge, whistle or jump. Read his reaction right and he's dead. Make the wrong call and he will be coming back. I'm not saying he has an amazing recovery, but good Olimars are amazingly smart with what little he has.

Just saying. . . I've played REALLY good Olimars in tournaments. 75-25 is the ratio I'd put on this matchup, based purely from personal experience. Theorycraft it's probably closer to 80-20.

 

[asob4]

meow says: um i will say 70-30. hes tiny. olimars OoS stuff is ghey

see, you're god himself said that xP

 

[illinialex24]

meow says: um i will say 70-30. hes tiny. olimars OoS stuff is ghey

see, you're god himself said that xP

Actually I've been arguing for 75-25 Olimar. LOL. Its true. And he's not a god. But I say that if Olimar gets caught in the air and tries to stay there he's screwed. But thats not how a smart Olimar would play. He ***** us on the ground.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

65:35 in Olimar's favor.

It's hard, but jiggs has an advantage in at least a third of the matchup. Alex, think about 75-25 lol. That seems like Pichu or Mewtwo against MK if they were in the same game.

Spoiler

Or it may be 20:80 :3

It's not that those numbers are bed, it's just that you should be giving jiggs a little more credit for the advantage at these given moments: when Oli is off stage.

 

[Flamingo]

First of all, you don't need to play good Olimars to know what hitboxes do what. Second, I know someone at my school who has a pretty good Olimar and unfortunately, past then, I've only played a few people on Wifi (most were pretty good, if you want names I'll give them). But Olimar doesn't have a very dangerous aerial game. To say its great is a gross exaggeration. Jigglypuff dominates him here. On the ground though, she gets her *** handed to her.

Edit: Let me ask you, besides that Jigglypuff who was obviously mediocre at best, who is good that you've played as Jigglypuff?

So you get your *** handed to you then. What kind of decent Olimar fights in the air? (Besides Fino, that overrated Oli player.)

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

So you get your *** handed to you then. What kind of decent Olimar fights in the air? (Besides Fino, that overrated Oli player.)

It's slightly different with Olimar. Jigglypuff's opponents are in their worst spot when they are above him. Olimar can call apon the aid of kockback eating rainbow spirits to prevent juggles. Therefore, he can attempt an aireal without being juggled.

 

[Awex]

Olimar has uair when you're above, and whistle when you're below.

To say lots of stuff about how the spacing game goes down seems a little too obvious and already thoroughly discussed. Jiggs stays in the air, but really struggles to do much to such a small, grounded target with amazing range and KO power. :s

It's 70/30 Olimar.

(I love Frigate Orpheon btw. Aside from the side with no ledge, it is designed amazingly well for Olimar.)

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Ok, first off, let's get this settled:

Good Oli players have a huge advantage over jiggs because of all the reasons mentioned above, and Olimar will never be in a gimpable position. He will stay in the middle of the stage.

Inexperienced Olimar players will not always be in the center of the stage and be gimped by jiggs like mad.

It’s Olimar's biggest weakness as a character. Why would any decent Olimar player not avoid this?

Since we are talking about good Olimars, I would say the matchup would be 70:30 or 65:35, but not higher.

There are almost no way jiggs can approtch Oli, etc etc. All this way mentioned on 9 pages.

The trick is to get Olimar in the air and attack him there. It doesn't matter if Olimar has an excellent or just decent air game; it sucks compared to his ground game. Therefore, Jiggs will be able to attack him much easier. Here, you can try and gimp him (Jiggs' bread and butter in this matchup), but it will be extremely hard to do. If an Olimar didn't know how to not get gimped, he would suck. Even if he has a high percentage, this is the preferable method for getting the KO, since its hard to land another KO move. Getting him offstage is the trick for this matchup, since it will at worst rack up some damage, and at best result in a loss of stock. It won't be easy to do this, however.

But that said, Jiggs doesn't have to do poorly with olimar, you just have to learn ways around the matchup. Japes is a great stage for this matchup, but I've had an Olimar camp under the platform in the center and be untouchable. It was quite annoying.

Also, Zori, do you remember the ranked match we had on AiB? They were intense matches, and pretty even, too. My Jiggs even did well on Luigi`s Mansion. You won in the end, but it was still close.

 

[Fino]

I'm in between 65:35 and 70:30, but not to be rude.
I would assume a good air camping jiggs would be 65:35, but by good I mean consistently coming in at the perfect 45 degree angle and dodging his usmash. I'm not sure what wins out, but olimar will hardly ever use a grounded tether.
Actually, I don't play enough jiggs to talk about the match-up, but I've played a few jiggs mains and I haven't had that much trouble

EDIT:

So you get your *** handed to you then. What kind of decent Olimar fights in the air? (Besides Fino, that overrated Oli player.)

You never give up do you. We haven't even played lol. Trash.
toon link is gay

~Fino

 

[fallenangemon0]

But it's incredibly hard to get a good Olimar anywhere off the stage. This matchup is grim...it's incredibly hard to approach him and get decent damage in regularly, and his smashes are beast as hell. Rollout is virtually useless, too, though it's not really relied on much.

Olimar is Jigglypuff's hardest matchup. Yes, I said it. 80 : 20

Oh sure, he's an "easy gimp"... if you get him offstage. Good luck with that. There's no way to approach him and he doesn't have to approach you with his unstoppable spam army.

He's got crazy range and power, and though we don't really have to worry about chain-grabs, his grab outranges ours so a major component of our game is shut down there. You really can never be above him or next to him.

Your only option is to force him offstage and gimp his recovery. This is what EVERYONE tries to do to Olimar and his mains can and WILL prevent this.

To have even a chance of winning you have to pick a stage like Orpheon or Brinstar, THEN outplay your opponent substantially and you can win. YOUR FAIR MUST REMAIN FRESH. This is absolutely a necessity here.

Good Luck. Have a counterpick ready.

Both good points. I have loads of experience with this match up and I have found that the only safe ways to deal with an Olimar is to:

Short Hop Air Dodge into grabs! He is prone to grabs when his **** Usmash misses, and this is the only reliable way to rack up some damage and HOPEFULLY Drillrest his light weight arse.

DO. NOT. MISS. REST. Read this 5 more times. If you miss then be prepared to lose a stock when you have all Pikmin swarming on you (not including white ones!) and then eating an Up Smash.

Don't try to gimp Olimar. If he is a good player, his Uair will stop all hopes of you getting a stock off him. If you do get him off the stage, do not try to WoP him -_-. Just hang onto the ledge (maybe if you can get in a guaranteed aerial, do it) and let him come back. Punish his Up B's vertical boost with an edge hopped fair, edge cancelled sing, or more SHAD grabs to throw him off the stage again. If the Olimar thinks he can Fair you off the edge, just fast fall to dodge it, then rising Bair and grab the edge again.

I still say 60-40 in Olimar's favor =(

Hope that helped at all.

 

[Maniclysane]

I still say 60-40 in Olimar's favor =(

Hope that helped at all.

The rest of your post sums up the match really well, but 60-40 seems incredibly low. Is the match easier than the Marth matchup?

 

[illinialex24]

The rest of your post sums up the match really well, but 60-40 seems incredibly low. Is the match easier than the Marth matchup?

No it is not because although Marth is better in the air, frigging Olimar ***** you on the ground.

 

[Tham]

hey guys, im sorry to write in here (cause new MU discussion is out there^^)
olimar is the most hated MU by me
and i was kicked in the last offline tourney by an olimar into the looser bracket ...

imo is 75:25 good, maybe even worse (for jiggs)
maye olimars recovery isnt as well as a few others, but it doesnt sux that hard
u cant really grab olimar, he grabs u first
rollout has no worth, the pikmin desturb, olimar outranges u
imo there is nearly nothing to do against olimar, he kills and ***** and dont wonna get gimped :C

 

[asob4]

i agree with 72-25 ;D

 

[judge!]

this is about 70-30 (olimar)

You have to space your f'airs insanly well. Lots of d airs to approach while taking out pikmin in the process. When your close try and do a fair to side b. If you can get him in the air do your best to juggle and space very well can you can almost knock off a stock.

 

[fallenangemon0]

i agree with 72-25 ;D

this is about 70-30 (olimar)

You have to space your f'airs insanly well. Lots of d airs to approach while taking out pikmin in the process. When your close try and do a fair to side b. If you can get him in the air do your best to juggle and space very well can you can almost knock off a stock.

Thats insanely high. I still think that drillkick/rest spam is effecient enough to make the matchup 60-40. 65-35 at worst.

 

[PND]

The trick is getting close enough to be in a position to drill kick rest. Olimar is amazing at shutting down our approach options. I should probably make a chart for this one, too.

 

[fallenangemon0]

The trick is getting close enough to be in a position to drill kick rest. Olimar is amazing at shutting down our approach options. I should probably make a chart for this one, too.

I'm telling you man:

SHAD IS THE WAY!

Effectively Short Hop Airdodging will set you perfectly up for a grab and maybe a drillkick.

 

[Maniclysane]

Thats insanely high. I still think that drillkick/rest spam is effecient enough to make the matchup 60-40. 65-35 at worst.

You have not played a Prolimar. It is obvious.

 

[fallenangemon0]

You have not played a Prolimar. It is obvious.

Typical "Well they're not good enough" response.

I've played Error's Oli. If you don't call that a Prolimar then I will punch you.

I know the matchup is INSANELY hard but I just see 70:30 matchup as "total nonstop you won't even take off a stock" matchups, so yeah.

 

[RhedKing]

Typical "Well they're not good enough" response.

I've played Error's Oli. If you don't call that a Prolimar then I will punch you.

I know the matchup is INSANELY hard but I just see 70:30 matchup as "total nonstop you won't even take off a stock" matchups, so yeah.

no that's the 95:5 Shiek vs Gannon fight.

although 70:30 seems drastic for this.

And then I said: "let there be 60:40!" and there was much argument without any real consensus.

 

[Noobicidal]

no that's the 95:5 Shiek vs Gannon fight.

*crys*

Don't forget 100-0 with D3 and DK.

 

[asob4]

Typical "Well they're not good enough" response.

I've played Error's Oli. If you don't call that a Prolimar then I will punch you.

I know the matchup is INSANELY hard but I just see 70:30 matchup as "total nonstop you won't even take off a stock" matchups, so yeah.

who the **** is error.....

you will not get close enough to olimar to drill rest
if you do then the person you are playing is horribly bad at prediction and can't see the SHAD coming after the first stock (assuming you get the first stock)

 

[illinialex24]

who the **** is error.....

you will not get close enough to olimar to drill rest
if you do then the person you are playing is horribly bad at prediction and can't see the SHAD coming after the first stock (assuming you get the first stock)

If you try SHADing your gonna get grabbed bad. Remember, Olimar is one of the characters who ***** our grab. If you can drill rest him he is also bad because you cannot be that close on the ground against a good Olimar unless you get very lucky weak side. Then again, you shouldn't be drill resting anyway. 70-30 isn't extreme, its a fairly general consensus.

 

[Veril]

Don't actively try to rest Olimar. If the opportunity presents itself, go for it. Trying to force an opening for a rest or baiting a perfect rest is a bad idea.

/rest