Jigglypuff General Discussion Thread (Q&A)

[Grim Tuesday]

His Down Tilt and smashes stops our approaches almost as well as Snake

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

It's awful really.

GnW's backair and nair outspace us most of the game.
Not to mention his smash attacks kill us at like, 70, if not earlier.

If you play against a good gnw, it's not fun.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

i just spam dair in every match-up now. It's actually been working out pretty well the way I've been doing it.

 

[-LzR-]

Until your opponent learns SDI and you lose.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Nah, even if they SDI dair they can't punish it.

And if you only hit with the end bit (because you predicted a roll, they spot-dodged the first half, etc...) you still get the follow-ups.

Dair is amazing.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

You know whats starting to bother me?
Whenever any MU comes up, and people are discussing it.

The first thing that happens is we go "But we can rest ____" As if that makes a difference -.-

 

[GeneralWoodman]

You have to annoy the opponent into doing something stupid and THEN you rest

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Rest is mad underused, Mink.

Frame 1, invincible, KOs... It is one of the only things left untapped in Puff's metagame imo.

 

[Noobicidal]

It's not untapped at all. Veril did EXTENSIVE research in regards to Rest and Rest Interrupts. It's a mediocre kill move that is ridiculously risky. The only good things it has going for it is the ability to interrupt most multi-hit moves, and the fact that it can be canceled by water, lava, and springs

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not talking about the move's mechanics like cancelling in water and ****.

Look at it this way: How many things in an average game could you punish with Rest that you don't punish with rest?

That's what I thought.

 

[Noobicidal]

Look at it this way: How many things in an average game could you punish with Rest that you don't punish with rest?

Depends on what your definition of "punish" is. If Marth Up-B'd on stage at 20%, you could totally punish him with Rest, though that's completely stupid. Now, if you're referring to punishes when the opponent is in death range, then I would nail that punish with rest 4/5 times, depending on how far away they are.

That's what I thought.

Oh, this will be fun.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You would nail the punish only 4/5 times, yet you believe that there is nothing else to learn about Rest? How about learning to hit with it 100% of the time

 

[Noobicidal]

You would nail the punish only 4/5 times, yet you believe that there is nothing else to learn about Rest?

I'm not saying that I'd miss the Rest. I'm saying that there are times in which the opponent is too far away to use Rest, so DACUS, or hell, even rollout, are better options.

Still waiting for your definition of "punish".

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I meant at KO percents, lol, I didn't think that needed to be said.

Anyway, I highly doubt that you hit with rest every single time you get an opportunity to do so in a match, but you don't have any matches on Youtube so I can't really prove that.

 

[Noobicidal]

Anyway, I highly doubt that you hit with rest every single time you get an opportunity to do so in a match, but you don't have any matches on Youtube so I can't really prove that.

I only use Rest as a punishing move. I am not saying that 4/5 of my kills are Rests. In regards to punishes, which we are currently talking about, I rarely miss Rest due to the ease of landing it on a character that is in no position to do anything about it.

I don't see how me not having any uploaded matches has anything to do with Rest's apparent untapped potential, but I suppose attacking me and not the argument will actually get us somewhere.

Wait.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not attacking you, I was hoping to use an example that would affect you, lolz. I love all my fellow Puffilyjiggs.

 

[-LzR-]

You could apply the same logic to Melee. If you could always rest when it just became possible, Puff would be bannable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yes, you could apply the same logic to Melee.

 

[-LzR-]

But yeah, it kinda sucks that our only option to not suck so much is to risk our stock for a damn hard to land killmove that is a bit above average compared to other strong killmoves. Well that sounds kinda fair to me lol.

 

[teluoborg]

Not if you're the lightest char in game that can be killed by anybody from 0 to 40%.
Imo rest can be broken if you have frame perfect timing and use it to counter non disjointed moves.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I only browsed the last like, 8 posts.

But look.
Unless there is multiple times in one match that your opponent is above 75%, and you're below 60%, you should not be using rest unless you are 100% sure it'll hit. Or you're dead.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

-4:
-3: ||
-2: || ||
-1: ||
0: ||
2(-4000):

Hey
This is the updated BBR MU spread, as made by me.

I put markers where subtiers should be.

problems?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

My list would be:
-4:
-3:
-2:
-1:
-?:
+0:
+1:
+2:

Marth is based on my personal experience in the match-up, so yeah, I'm sure people will disagree with that. Other than that, I don't think there is anything suspect in my list.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont have enough Puff experience to make a whole list.

 

[Jigglymaster]

-4:
-3: ||
-2: || ||
-1: ||
0: ||
2(-4000):

Hey
This is the updated BBR MU spread, as made by me.

I put markers where subtiers should be.

problems?

Swap Diddy and Yoshi. Yoshi's Pivot Grabs, Eggs, and weight make this matchup impossible for Jigglypuff because she has to work a **** load to get in and can't keep the lead unless she kills Yoshi who won't die because he weighs so much. At least against Diddy he's lighter, you can gimp him, and you can use his own projectiles against him.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Grim, the ratios are permanent for the new MU spread.

Aand okay Puffster.



Also.....

...

2 weeks

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I disagree with Ganon being +2. Personally I see it as +3.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi has a terrible shield though which means a lot of the time Yoshi will be forced to take damage when other characters normally wouldnt so he can avoid getting shield pressured into oblivion.

 

[-LzR-]

Random question: Would Yoshi be a good character if he had a normal shield? His potential OoS options seem crazy to me.

 

[Z'zgashi]

He'd at least be high tier, and a possible MK counter candidate.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[-LzR-]

Well then the thing I always tell people when they say Yoshi sucks is actually kinda true. He indeed is a character with really good attributes and stuff, but has a crippling weakness called a cool shield.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Thing is, Yoshi still doesnt suck. He has no MUs worse than -2.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, but he isn't very good either. The point was, he would be without a crappy shield, right?

 

[Z'zgashi]

He would be very good. But my point is that even with that shield, he's not bad. He's just average.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

3 stocking a good yoshi is extremely hard without suicides on yoshi's part. Wall of pain is near impossible and the absorbing of hits almost guarantees hits on jiggz in the matchup. My matches with yoshi mains are almost always close:/.

 

[T-block]

lol +2 over Ivysaur

That's ridiculous.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ivysaur is ****.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ivysaur is awful.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ivysaur is attractive.

 

[rm88]

I guess I agree with the new MU chart, other than Snake not being in the same level as G&W for us. And maybe ROB, he IS tough, but I don't think it's just as bad as ZSS or Olimar.