Jigglypuff Frame Data

[Veril]

if only we could dacus with rest instead of up smash

"sigh" well, you can waveland downhill into rest.

 

[Metatitan]

rhed's ultimate dream would be dash attack canceled up special xD. then sing would actually have a purpose in the game other than ledge

 

[illinialex24]

Ok spot dodge is up. Notice how you have many vulnerable frames even in the middle of the dodge. Its almost worthless.

 

[rinoH]

dang it sucks

 

[KnucklesTheEchidna]

PNDMike posting: It's not useless, it's bad. it's still an important tool to master.

Spotdodge into rest has won me more than a few matches.

 

[illinialex24]

Roll is up. It seems relatively unsafe if you roll into them but otherwise you should be fine.

 

[Maniclysane]

It's so slow. I'm never rolling with Jigglypuff. Ever.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

It's so slow. I'm never rolling with Jigglypuff. Ever.

Me: In essence, he is saying:

Not the best idea to do that. Roll is good depending on how you use it. Rolling away is ok at some times, and it's not as slow in real time. Besides, almost every character has the same roll speed.

 

[Veril]

now we just need landing lag, get up attack, airdodge, ledge attack, ledge-roll, rest and sing.

Wow, Alex is fast.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

now we just need landing lag, get up attack, airdodge, ledge attack, ledge-roll, rest and sing.

Wow, Alex is fast.

Don't forget long legde roll. (sheild while grabing edge) It has an awsome animation. And pound grounded, aireal, and mabey rising and falling, but that may be too much to ask for.

This is going fast.

 

[MrEh]

Jigg's roll and dodge has some pretty hilarious frames. ^^

Dash attack has a -35 frame advantage, which makes it pretty punishable. However, it comes out on effing frame 4. This is awesome. Very awesome.

Its probably the single thing that makes it most difficult for me to play other characters well... spotdodge aversion.

Just use Bowser. His spotdodge sucks so bad that you'll probably never use it.

EVER.

 

[petre]

bump for amazing.

actually, i got bored earlier (and someone made a cool teleportation code i wanted to mess with) so i went through and collected frame data for jiggs, without knowing about this thread. however it was not all worthless, i found some things that are different from what you have, and some things that you didn't have at all. so, here's what i got.

attack : hitbox frames : IASA (earliest possible frame to start the next action)

jab : 5-6 : 17
jab2* : 13-14 : 25

ftilt : 7-10 : 28
dtilt : 10-12 : 31
utilt : 9-13 : 24
dash atk : 5-15 : 40

fsmash : 16-24 : 50
dsmash : 14-15 : 53
usmash : 16-19 : 54
(note: smashes can be charged up to 60 frames)

fair : 8-20 : 37
dair : 5-6, 8-9, 11-12, 14-15, 17-18, 20-21, 23-24, 26-27 : 50
uair : 8-16 : 37
bair : 8-11 : 33
nair : 6-29 : 44

rest : 2 (ONLY frame 2, i did many tests) : 250 (invincible frames 1-27)
sing : 29-33, 73-77, 122-134 : 180
pound : 13-28 : 46 (same for air and ground)
rollout : this one is special...
earliest possible hit: frame 30 (you must start it in the air and fall on someone for this)
it takes 60 frames to get a full charge
the hitbox comes out the frame after you let go of B
when turning around, the hitbox disappears the frame you tilt the control stick, and is gone for exactly 28 frames
after a hit, you suffer lag while you fall, and no matter how high you fall from you get 30 frames of landing lag when you hit the ground

*jab2 is weird. to get it to come out as fast as possible, you must press A on frame 8 exactly of the initial jab. if you do, the second jab hitbox comes out on frame 13. If you press A on frames anywhere from 8-16, the second hitbox comes out 5 frames later. If you press A on frames anywhere from 17-30, the second hitbox comes out 4 frames later. yes, you can delay the second jab up to half a second after you pressed A for the first one.
one funny thing with this jab is because brawl has a 10 frame buffer system, pressing A for the second jab on frame 7 exactly of the first one will make jiggs wait till frame 17 to start the second jab. try it out (press A just twice and very quickly, frame 1 and frame 7), it looks funny. the buffer waits till the first jab is completely done for some reason.

 

[Veril]

^^ Wow, cool. The rest data there would make perfect resting through hitboxes all but impossible, which isn't the case, thus I assume the 1-frame hitbox is inaccurate. Simple observation and the enormous amount of time I have spent looking into this move suggests its hitbox lingers slightly.

 

[illinialex24]

Nice stuff.

 

[petre]

^^ Wow, cool. The rest data there would make perfect resting through hitboxes all but impossible, which isn't the case, thus I assume the 1-frame hitbox is inaccurate. Simple observation and the enormous amount of time I have spent looking into this move suggests its hitbox lingers slightly.

yeah i thought it was weird at first too, but when you think about it, you get invincibility on frame one, and the hitbox doesn't come out till the next frame, so you have a very small period of time to go through an opponents hitbox before rest will hit them.

i don't have capture equipment or else i'd post a vid. i can try to save a replay of it, but i don't think the freezing saves on replays (so you can see the frame-by-frame hits). ill try it later, can't get to it now.

 

[Veril]

yeah i thought it was weird at first too, but when you think about it, you get invincibility on frame one, and the hitbox doesn't come out till the next frame, so you have a very small period of time to go through an opponents hitbox before rest will hit them.

i don't have capture equipment or else i'd post a vid. i can try to save a replay of it, but i don't think the freezing saves on replays (so you can see the frame-by-frame hits). ill try it later, can't get to it now.

Well this is very interesting. I look forward to whatever you find in the end.

 

[petre]

nope the replay won't save correctly. SAKURAIIIIIIIII only saving button inputs ftl.

just to let you know how i got this data, there were 2 codes released recently, one for debug mode freezing and one for teleportation. the freezing code made the game like melee's debug mode (if you ever used that); basically, you can freeze the game completely whenever you want and advance the game one frame at a time. the teleportation code did just that, instantly warp you to a specified location.

so i freeze the game, start a jiggy attack, then teleport the other character into jiggy's hitbox on specific frames to see when it hits. then repeat.

 

[Veril]

rest is very very strange. When its hitbox connects it expands and the duration increases. This happens with stage parts, shields, nana, waddle dees, etc.

 

[MrEh]

rest is very very strange. When its hitbox connects it expands and the duration increases. This happens with stage parts, shields, nana, waddle dees, etc.

I'm not sure about the duration part, but I'm 100% sure about the hitbox getting bigger. Definately makes it easier to Rest both of the IC's, if you're ballsy enough to do it.

 

[DJ Kat]

Yeah, the hitbox seems to expand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjmLrXfZxOE

 

[illinialex24]

The only real use I can see of this is if in 2v2, the opponent by accidentally grabs his partner.

 

[illinialex24]

Ok guys, I just did air-dodge and rest data and updated all the other dodge data. I only have the pics right now but the data and pics will be up later, in the very near future. And wtf, the rest had 265 frames.....

 

[Veril]

I'm not sure about the duration part, but I'm 100% sure about the hitbox getting bigger. Definately makes it easier to Rest both of the IC's, if you're ballsy enough to do it.

Hit the pillars on Castle Siege with d-air. Observe the effect on duration. The same principle applies to rest. It has more application than just the ICs, it interacts with hit/hurtboxes. I've noticed that attacks with disjoint can still be perfect rested. How is this possible? Because of the interaction of rest with the disjoint. The increase in size also occurs with shields...

/Science



Alex is awesome btw. Now I have an idea of the optimal way/time to waveland.

 

[illinialex24]

Nice, that could be pretty cool. And getting the rest stuff was painful.....

 

[Veril]

Nice, that could be pretty cool. And getting the rest stuff was painful.....

<3

Thank you.

 

[illinialex24]

Updated for pound . Gonna do rollout, sing and DACUS next.

 

[illinialex24]

You guys owe me. Rollout with a whole bunch of info is up, DACUS is up and I fixed a mistake I made with U-smash, ie, it has different hitboxes on the front and back.

Oh and EDIT:

You go farher for the DACUS by half an arrow length on FD if you do the 3 frame interrupt DACUS rather than the 4 frame 1.

 

[illinialex24]

Fair is up and so is all of her specials. Enjoy

Sorry for the triple post but you guys need to see this.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Awesome data.

I wish Fair was a little faster. Frame 8 isn't terrible though.

Lol at sing being roughly as laggy as rest.

 

[illinialex24]

Awesome data.

I wish Fair was a little faster. Frame 8 isn't terrible though.

Lol at sing being roughly as laggy as rest.

Yeah and Nair comes out on Frame 6. Thats how I was basing it off. See how soon I could do an nair after a fair and then subtract 6 frames from when the hitbox came out. I'll likely do nair and bair next.

 

[rinoH]

nice job alex yeah i wish Fair was faster

 

[Veril]

So we should use n-air to gain back aerial control? That alone would make this an amazing thread, but considering how useful it is already...

Alex deserves a ton of credit here. This is a huge step in getting Jiggs caught up with the other boards in terms of technical knowledge. You did a really good job and I'm glad I get to work with you as often as I do... props.

 

[illinialex24]

so we should use n-air to gain back aerial control?

No. Because it lasts way too long. Unless if your opponent is very close to you then yes. But it should not be used if they are far away due to the long time commitment for it or for momentum canceling, since it doesn't do squat for the latter.

 

[Veril]

ok, well, awesome regardless.

 

[MrEh]

Coming out in 8 frames is nothing to scoff at. It's still pretty quick.

On a slightly related note, Bowser's Fair also comes out on frame 8. ^^

 

[fallenangemon0]

Huh. Didn't know Rest no longer hits in one frame. Very nice data.

 

[illinialex24]

Huh. Didn't know Rest no longer hits in one frame. Very nice data.

But you have invulnerability until then so its almost exactly the same.

 

[Ref]

I don't know much about jiggly puff but I can pretty much tell you, your invincibility frames are most likely wrong...

Do not count the frames the character is flashing instead count the frames that they are really invincible one easy way to do this is to run fludd's water on the spot dodge and see when it hits or not. The frames that you don't see water hitting are the invincibility frames.

Just basing this off the duration of jiggly's spot dodge the invincibility should look something like this:
2-20. Since the duration is 26.. A 25 frame spot dodge is frames 2-20..

So if you can I'd suggest re testing that...

 

[illinialex24]

I don't know much about jiggly puff but I can pretty much tell you, your invincibility frames are most likely wrong...

Do not count the frames the character is flashing instead count the frames that they are really invincible one easy way to do this is to run fludd's water on the spot dodge and see when it hits or not. The frames that you don't see water hitting are the invincibility frames.

Just basing this off the duration of jiggly's spot dodge the invincibility should look something like this:
2-20. Since the duration is 26.. A 25 frame spot dodge is frames 2-20..

So if you can I'd suggest re testing that...

Ok yeah I didn't know how to figure that out. Good idea

 

[illinialex24]

Updated the dodging data. Roll more people . Our roll has less ending lag than Lucario and almost as invulnerable on startup.