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Jigglypuff Frame Data
- Thread starter illinialex24
- Start date
illinialex24
Smash Hero
You don't want to roll under people but its a lot safer upon startup than spot dodging and a fair amount better overall.
yeah, I did that once and I got Ike'd. Getting Ike'd hurts. I've never rolled when someones in the air again. partially because I've discovered if their in the air, I should be up there beating them up.
My jigglypuff has more steak than yours.
Edit: wait never mind they have the same amount, mine's just at a different angle.
My jigglypuff has more steak than yours.
Edit: wait never mind they have the same amount, mine's just at a different angle.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
That is some nice steak though. Very nice steak job
PND
Smash Champion
Roll away. You're pretty much invincible and it resets your spacing.
HOWEVER
Her roll may be great, but it still takes forever. Use it sparingly, rolls can be read and punished.
HOWEVER
Her roll may be great, but it still takes forever. Use it sparingly, rolls can be read and punished.
Veril
Frame Savant
Math will follow when I figure it out...
Pound has a sweetspot btw. Fo reals this time.
Pound has a sweetspot btw. Fo reals this time.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Veril. It does. There is a way to check. Go to 999% damage, capture the video and go 1 frame after start. Measure the angle. It is 90 degrees
Veril
Frame Savant
999 isn't realistic. Seriously. The angle appears to be 90° at 999, but it really isn't. I've proven it mathematically. I'm still working on other equations but I'll post it soon.
Oh, pound. Its got a portion of the hitbox that causes a hit at around 35° (rough rough estimate).
OK, up-tilt angle...
OK, if the angle was truly 90°, the variance between rests KO° (a move that DOES hit at 90°) and up-tilt KO% would be consistent across the cast. This is simply not true.
Oh, pound. Its got a portion of the hitbox that causes a hit at around 35° (rough rough estimate).
OK, up-tilt angle...
OK, if the angle was truly 90°, the variance between rests KO° (a move that DOES hit at 90°) and up-tilt KO% would be consistent across the cast. This is simply not true.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Its the Smash Lab standard. Its the closest to the true angle before gravity takes an effect. 999 damage is used for a reason.
Veril
Frame Savant
Um, a 90° angle shouldn't be affected by gravity assuming the downward force runs perpendicular to the ground.
Actually, nevermind, while I am convinced of the angle being wrong, I saw a logical fallacy in my math argument... Gotta approach this from a different angle (pun ftw)
How does this character drift I see take place? even without DI, characters seem to have this slightly parabolic trajectory on supposedly 90° hits. Its extremely visible with up-tilt, very little (if any) with pound.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
It is almost exactly 90 Degrees. it is slightly off depending on where you hit. Gravity takes an effect and makes the angle appear smaller or greater making it seem like 85 or 95 degrees. It is around like 89.5 or very close and so is essentially 90 degrees. I think it is actually closer.
Veril
Frame Savant
The "almost" been a real thorn in my side in terms of getting KO% since the parabolic movement makes a simple formula using KO ratios fail.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah I know but its a lot a lot closer than U-smash, which has an 87.5 degree knockback and has a very true parabola.
Veril
Frame Savant
lol due to a simple clerical error on my part I got a WAAAAY wrong result on the ratio for CF's rest-up-tilt. My equation works really well now. There's still a slight discrepancy but its close enough.
Enough up-tilt. My math works better now so I'm happy. Expect a LOT of KO% soon.
Pound though... that s*** is strange.
Stage KO modifiers are consistent across the cast. YAY!
illinialex24
Smash Hero
It is very weird. Its got one of the most messed up hitboxes.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Oh wow, I am doing air dodge using a debug mode woot. Anyway. Air dodge becomes invincible on frame 4.
EDIT: AIR DODGE DATA IS UP
EDIT: AIR DODGE DATA IS UP
Veril
Frame Savant
that airdodge is f***ing made for wavelanding and SHADING with its good duration but sad ending lag.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Updated for new U-tilt information. For all the blockstun data that is updated, I think I have 6 frames too many on the end but I am being cautious.
Veril
Frame Savant
jab canceling isn't useless.
Also, after looking at combos for a while, I'm almost certain that up-tilt has a sweetspot. We've already discussed how pound can have a radically different knockback angle.
Also, after looking at combos for a while, I'm almost certain that up-tilt has a sweetspot. We've already discussed how pound can have a radically different knockback angle.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Does the sweetspot increase knockback, or just have a different angle?
illinialex24
Smash Hero
No, it doesn't. It just has the same knockback from the other side from what I remember. It has the same damage and knockback I believe, just from the same angle on the opposite side, which is almost, almost, almost 90.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Updated for all Smashes, all dodge data, all tilts, all jabs, dash attack, and pound. Being updated for the rest of the specials, rollout first.
Veril
Frame Savant
oh, we do...
illinialex24
Smash Hero
A fair amount updated for rollout. I will finish the rollout data tonight.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Fair is complete, so are specials.
So far we have:
All Jabs
All Tilts
All Smashes
All Specials
Jump
and 1/5 Aerials
I still need to do:
4/5 Aerials
All her throws
Her 2 stage get-up attacks
Her two lying down attacks.
So far we have:
All Jabs
All Tilts
All Smashes
All Specials
Jump
and 1/5 Aerials
I still need to do:
4/5 Aerials
All her throws
Her 2 stage get-up attacks
Her two lying down attacks.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I just learned that sex kicks and sweetspots have very different hitlag's so I am going to get data to deal with that. Assume right now everything is a sweetspot, except for U-smash, which is a sourspot.
EDIT: So does the Block Hitlag data and all that. I'm going to make sure all that is correct for both sweetspotted and sourspotted moves.
EDIT: So does the Block Hitlag data and all that. I'm going to make sure all that is correct for both sweetspotted and sourspotted moves.
Veril
Frame Savant
Good work as always.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Ok guys, I haven't done the complete frame data for these moves but I thought you would like to know:
Bair hits on 8.
Uair hits on 8.
Dair hits on 5.
Bair hits on 8.
Uair hits on 8.
Dair hits on 5.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Updated for Bair and Dair. Interesting stuff on dair.
First off, if I never mentioned it, this is imo the best frame data collection there is.
Second, I'm going to be a complete jerk and suggest a list of future priorities while contributing nothing meaningful myself:
1. Uair (obviously)
2. All 3 Grabs
3. Ledge Attacks
4. General Landing Lag
5. Unimportant things like throws, get-up-options, w/e
Also, was there any confirmation that the front and back rolls are the same frame-wise? I seem to recall some characters have disparities.
Second, I'm going to be a complete jerk and suggest a list of future priorities while contributing nothing meaningful myself:
1. Uair (obviously)
2. All 3 Grabs
3. Ledge Attacks
4. General Landing Lag
5. Unimportant things like throws, get-up-options, w/e
Also, was there any confirmation that the front and back rolls are the same frame-wise? I seem to recall some characters have disparities.
Veril
Frame Savant
the exact points for autocanceling would be pretty sweet.
if d-air has no knockback then it may be a true interrupt for Jiggs. I don't have my wii today so if anyone feels like testing that. I already know you can rest someone immediately after they use a d-air or anytime it lands for lag.
jiggs dittos may just have gotten a lot more rest.
if d-air has no knockback then it may be a true interrupt for Jiggs. I don't have my wii today so if anyone feels like testing that. I already know you can rest someone immediately after they use a d-air or anytime it lands for lag.
jiggs dittos may just have gotten a lot more rest.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah I'm gonna do it like that Thinkaman, but I'm kinda semi-grounded right now. So I am going to get all the pictures up and make a list so you guys can see all this.
Oh and if you guys want to know why drill resting doesn't work?????
Sakurai decided that all her aerials would have 15 frames interrupted landing lag. However, he gave dair enough time so you can't just SH do it and then be fine and gave it 30 frames landing lag. Which is why it can be perfect shielded or Dolphin slashed through, countered, or even rested. Or it could be the reduced hitstun. I'm not exactly sure but all screw us over.
Oh and if you guys want to know why drill resting doesn't work?????
Sakurai decided that all her aerials would have 15 frames interrupted landing lag. However, he gave dair enough time so you can't just SH do it and then be fine and gave it 30 frames landing lag. Which is why it can be perfect shielded or Dolphin slashed through, countered, or even rested. Or it could be the reduced hitstun. I'm not exactly sure but all screw us over.
PND
Smash Champion
Sakurai must have been throwing darts at a picture of Jiggs when he was designing Brawl. Everything in Brawl seems designed to screw Jiggs over. Hitstun? Axed. Oh wait, now let's give everyone multiple airdodges and vastly improve their recovery. On top of that, let's nerf Rising pound a bit. Oh, Jiggs is too light. Let's half to quarter her weight. Also, she's way too mobile in the air. Let's slow her down and take away her mobility, let's give that **** to WARIO! THAT MAKES SENSE! Her Fsmash is too good, let's give it to Kirby and add 11 pointless frames to it. Drill rest? Not in my smash game. Let's **** over dair. Oh, and for the rest portion? I KNOW! LET'S MAKE REST SUCK, BUT NOW IT PUTS A FLOWER ON THEIR HEAD!
BUT THAT'S OKAY, CUZ ITEMS WILL BE ON, RIGHT? LET'S GIVE ITEMS MORE SHIELD DAMAGE TO KILL HER EARLIER AND GIVE HER THE WORST ITEM TOSS IN BRAWL!
NOW Jiggs is fair and balanced.
. . . . **** you Sakurai. At least she has a good FS, although like THAT matters competitively.
[/rant]
BUT THAT'S OKAY, CUZ ITEMS WILL BE ON, RIGHT? LET'S GIVE ITEMS MORE SHIELD DAMAGE TO KILL HER EARLIER AND GIVE HER THE WORST ITEM TOSS IN BRAWL!
NOW Jiggs is fair and balanced.
. . . . **** you Sakurai. At least she has a good FS, although like THAT matters competitively.
[/rant]
It's okay...it's okay.
