Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[Ingoro]

2x squirtle, 1x charizard. Hello tournament setting.

 

[Aposl]

against snake with Ivy, you can bait forward tilt and grab and spot dodge neutral b, or powershield the tilt to neutral b, basically getting neutral b off on a snake is good. Also if you let go of neutral b mid instead of at top it usually causes snake to to an aerial to low to the ground and you can re - neutral b them, but usually it is best to back throw and change. Mainly because Ivysaur gets killed real early by fir type moves, A.K.A. snakes entire moveset...

but here are a few factoids, at low percent if snake does a dash attack cancelled up smash, you can do a neutral air through the up smash and punish snake. It is better to be reverse this though. Razor leaf stops the momentum of nades but keeps going,and can blow up the nade if he shield drops it. Also snakes lie to recover low, down tilt works against this better than you think, and you can mix it up with down air if he strts to try to recover so low down tilt wont hit. Also alot of snakes have a spot dodge habit because they dread getting grabbed, and love punishing dash grabs with spot dodge up tilt, so running up to snake and up smashing works alot more than you would think.

As for charizard, against snake at zero percent zard can gimp snake with one grab and one correct read. back throw, regrab forward throw off stage to either high recovery read or low recovery read.Also if the snake likes to recover high you jump at him, then land and just forward smash, it works kind of like kirby's forward smash. So sometimes if you are confident enough, start with zard, get an early gimp then switch to squirtle.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

I like using Charizard's nair on Snake coming from high offstage.Best case scenario is that he wastes his 2nd jump and now has to UpB a little bit away from the stage.

Also, anything intresting about Ivysaur's vine whip you guys might want to add? I've been really liking the move lately.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Stage spiking an edgeguard attempt on last stock is the best thing ever.

 

[T-block]

I actually did that third game to win the set once.

I felt kinda bad for my opponent lol

OH WELL

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I've actually fully integrated vine whip into my game now.

I highly reccomend it.

 

[T-block]

Definitely. Grounded up-b is surprisingly safe against some characters. Marth tends to like floating around that area.

 

[CoonTail]

Lol up-b stage spikes show the lack of attention some are paying and for others the lack of knowledge, but that does not take away from the fact that it is one of the most awesome ways to win a set LOL.

But to the point grounded up-b for Ivy is fantastic....especially levels with platforms because you can make it seem like your not pressuring an opponents landing yet still nail them with sweet spotted up-b.
Overall grounded up-b seems to be quite a nice tool for Ivy that no one really can expect, thats why i honestly make sure I limit the use of my up-b so that its never predictable and if I do use it the surpirse always seems to allow me to connect.

 

[T-block]

I think this move has more potential than just a surprise attack. I'm thinking of the Marth matchup here. up-b makes a very important zone for Marth less safe. Sure, if you leave it as a surprise attack you won't miss as much, but making Marth wary of that zone is worth the misses.

 

[CoonTail]

The problem is missing against marth is usually a horrendous situation for Ivy figuring marth gimping Ivy is so simple with moves like f-air and n-air so I really play very cautiously against him.

 

[T-block]

It's pretty safe as long as you're not an idiot about it though =P

 

[CoonTail]

Yea fair enough I just do not like the Ivy v. Marth matchup at all so I guess I dont like the idea of giving marth oppourtunities to gimp me no matter how small they be.

Lol but point taken.

 

[Steeler]

people can just hold up when they are on the ledge to avoid getting stage spiked by it...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

My god, my spacing with grabbing now is ****ing amazing. Seriously, I get rage now from grabbing someone with the very edge of my grab range. Perfectly spaced grabs are awesome.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I wish it were possible for Ivysaur to grab someone out of the air. The height of the grab hitboxes are so disappointing.

 

[CoonTail]

Aren't IC's one of the few characters that can do that luis?.....if not the only

 

[T-block]

Any character can grab opponents out of the air...

Reflex is just saying Ivysaur's grab doesn't land as high as it looks like it would.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Any character can grab opponents out of the air...

Reflex is just saying Ivysaur's grab doesn't land as high as it looks like it would.

Are you sure? I was under the impression that certain ones couldn't, most notably tethers, like Link.

I imagine Ivysaur -can- grab someone out of the air, but, the hitbubbles are so low to the ground that they basically have to be on the ground for it to work.

 

[Geenareeno]

I hate Ivysaur's grab with a passion. Seriously I think it's the worst thing for me.

 

[T-block]

Reflex, you play Wario. What about Yoshi/ZSS infinite on him? =P

Can't most characters grab Snake out of Cypher?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Tethers are just weird when it comes to grabbing people in the air.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Reflex, you play Wario. What about Yoshi/ZSS infinite on him? =P

If you press Z in the air with Yoshi and ZSS, you won't tether.

That said, I just mean that this is disappointing--

Grab and pivot grab, in that order.

 

[T-block]

If you press Z in the air with Yoshi and ZSS, you won't tether.

I know that ._.

I'm saying that ZSS can obviously grab Wario out of the air, right?

 

[Tesh]

Wow reflex, that looks like olimar's grab. I would have expected zig zaging grab bubbles that follow along the vines as they go out. Thats how tether grabs work. Does that mean ivy doesn't have a tether grab then?

 

[Steeler]

that's right, ivy does not have a tether grab.

furthermore, ivy's grab range is very marginally longer than dedede's and twice as slow.

finally, ivy's grab is balls.

quirky PT ****...reminds me of the thing with charizard's dash that makes him stop behind where his dash puts him, so shield canceled grabs and such aren't as good as they should be...

also charizard and ivysaur don't have an extra grab bubble on their pivot grabs like most characters do...

 

[Tesh]

ivysaur's traction just feels horrible when i try to shield grab. Despite having large grab range along with squirtle, they slide so far away before i can shieldgrab anything

I usually just shielddrop into a jab now

 

[T-block]

Why jab when you can d-tilt? ;D

Anyone have a traction list? I don't think Ivysaur has super low traction... I think you just feel that way because her grab is so slow.

 

[Xyless]

RIP Japanese Ivysaur VA, Kawakami Tomoko.

 

[CoonTail]

Gotta say I have absolutly no clue who that is but if this is actually in regards to someone passing away, then I give my full condolences to family, friends, and the rest of the japanese smash community he effected.

If he just dropped our character then disreguard the comment above and let him know that PT ain't for the weak of heart!!

 

[T-block]

VA = voice actor, IC.

Ovarian cancer at 41 =( That's a shame.... thoughts out to her friends and family.

Ivysaur's japanese voice is mega cute too.

 

[Geenareeno]

Ivysaur's japanese voice is mega cute too.

Lol I read this as she's super cute.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Obviously as a tribute I'm going to have to put together a set of hex packets to undub the voice.

Well, I would if I knew how to do that.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If you land a N-Air spike on someone over the stage who incurs recovery carry-over lag when they land, you get a free U-Smash.

This is totally viable against Falco and his silly Phantasm. Could be useful against Marth, too.

 

[CoonTail]

Wow luis lemme make sure I understand this correctly, if you n-air spike some onstage who is recovering over the ledge while still having up-b landing lag.....you get a free u-smash?

Cause that's really ridiculously insane

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Wow luis lemme make sure I understand this correctly, if you n-air spike some onstage who is recovering over the ledge while still having up-b landing lag.....you get a free u-smash?

Cause that's really ridiculously insane

Yes, that is correct.

 

[CoonTail]

Wow so basically if we force up-b ledgegrabs with ivy, then we can punish with extreme prejudice if we harass their attempt to get on stage with on stage n-air spikes.

Very impressive find luis

 

[Killanator90]

do you have a video of you doing that?

 

[CoonTail]

Lol dunno why you would need a video....it's really straight forward

As long as they up-b once to grab the edge they get landing lag on the next move of theirs that puts them onto the stage. So if lets say this happens to falco and he attempts to side-b onto the stage. If you use Ivysaur's n-air to hit falco out of his side-b with the portion of Ivy's n-air that has downward or spiking trajectory. The land lag the falco incurs from up-b lag vs. the lack of landing lag you have since Ivy's n-air autocancels leaves a window of oppourtunity apparently large enough to land the "26 frames of justice".

if you don't understand certain portions of that lemme know.....I can further explain it.

 

[Tesh]

couldnt u do the same with single hit bair?

 

[Steeler]

i suppose, if bair does hit falco out of it, but bair is harder to time + doesn't position them quite as well