Xyless
Smash Master
I'll check the chance of tripping tomorrow.
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Ivysaur Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
Xyless
Smash Master
Interesting, the tripping rate for dair is definitely 0%. I wonder what causes the tripping then...
Perhaps it's a certain amount of spiking force, probably done at a low percentage. I did it to my older brother's Peach yesterday and followed it up with a jumping N-Air (the D-Air autocanceled), though it sure didn't look guaranteed or anything. Perhaps we could get Bullet Seed or something.
Xyless
Smash Master
[10:56:22 AM] standardtoaster: that's a thing with vbrawl
[10:56:27 AM] standardtoaster: moves with low kb and low angles
[10:56:28 AM] standardtoaster: can trip
[10:56:33 AM] standardtoaster: even if it's set to 0%
I've learned something new today.
[10:56:27 AM] standardtoaster: moves with low kb and low angles
[10:56:28 AM] standardtoaster: can trip
[10:56:33 AM] standardtoaster: even if it's set to 0%
I've learned something new today.
Yea, I'm pretty sure with low enough knockback, any most that doesn't force people off the ground can trip(ganon's stale dair trips heavies often enough). Ivysaur's dair is just horribly laggy though. Even when you "autocancel" you spend so much time in the air before you land that you won't have a guaranteed follow up. The trip just gives you a chance to safely avoid a juggle at low percents.
I wonder if the weak hit of dair will jab lock people at low percents...
I wonder if the weak hit of dair will jab lock people at low percents...
Raichu
Smash Rookie
I usually stay with Ivysaur the whole time. Even at the high damages.
Also, if you're in a sudden death match, Ivysaur is a pretty good character. Continue using Razor Leaf, and your opponent will usually be forced to attack from above. Since Ivysaur is the best of the trio when it comes to attacking from above, you just use a quick smash attack, or maybe even Bullet Seed.
At least, it works for me.
Also, if you're in a sudden death match, Ivysaur is a pretty good character. Continue using Razor Leaf, and your opponent will usually be forced to attack from above. Since Ivysaur is the best of the trio when it comes to attacking from above, you just use a quick smash attack, or maybe even Bullet Seed.
At least, it works for me.
I thought of something while I was walking in the park today--
Ivysaur's edgeguarding could probably be enhanced by her tether recovery. If you don't have Tap Jump on, you could jump offstage and get above the opponent; they must choose between trying to attack Ivysaur or straight-up trying to avoid you.
Ivysaur moves much faster while tethered, so you could use this to move toward the opponent quickly, tap Down to release, and either N-Air or D-Air, depending on your distance from the edge. Also, if they attack from a direct horizontal, the Up-B will bring you higher when it grabs the ledge, allowing you to potentially dodge a move and D-Air/N-Air.
It sounds really useful, anyway. I'll try to experiment with it.
Ivysaur's edgeguarding could probably be enhanced by her tether recovery. If you don't have Tap Jump on, you could jump offstage and get above the opponent; they must choose between trying to attack Ivysaur or straight-up trying to avoid you.
Ivysaur moves much faster while tethered, so you could use this to move toward the opponent quickly, tap Down to release, and either N-Air or D-Air, depending on your distance from the edge. Also, if they attack from a direct horizontal, the Up-B will bring you higher when it grabs the ledge, allowing you to potentially dodge a move and D-Air/N-Air.
It sounds really useful, anyway. I'll try to experiment with it.
Xyless
Smash Master
Obviously, just make sure you don't jump before you tether, otherwise when you release the tether, you'll fall to your death if you attack.
T-block
B2B TST
I've been using up-b like that for a while now, although I'm limited by the fact that I keep Tap Jump on.
@Xyless - you won't necessarily die; even if you use your jump, if you're still within range after you release you can still tether. Just remember that you can only latch three times before up-b is forced to miss.
@Xyless - you won't necessarily die; even if you use your jump, if you're still within range after you release you can still tether. Just remember that you can only latch three times before up-b is forced to miss.
Xyless
Smash Master
I mostly meant that it's a risk if you don't watch your spacing. Especially if the opponent sneaks through you and grabs the edge from you.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Isn't a Ivysaur offstage always a risky situation?
99% of the time, using Ivysaur in competitive play is a risky situation, but there are many opportunities for high-reward. If you get used to the scenarios, it reduces risk. I think Ivysaur is among the best edgeguarders in the game.
What do you think makes Ivy so good at edgeguarding? His options against people recovering high are decent even if slow and unreliable, but when people are below him, he has a weak weak bair with lots of coverage and a dair thats okay when it hits, but horrible when it misses. He doesn't have the airspeed to keep up with anyone that tries to get past him with an average or better recovery and the risk is HIGH if he screws up.
The threat of many moves force people to airdodge "just in case" in many cases. Aiming for their double-jump's height above them via Up-B works really well against some characters.
Offstage B-Air against characters without excellent horizontal aerial mobility basically puts them in the same position they were before getting hit, which can cause problems for a lot of characters and can give you time to react to their next move. If they have to recover horizontally, between this and D-Air, they're often ****ed, since both moves will outrange anything they throw out in the air.
The D-Air hitbox is absolutely enormous, and shouldn't be missing when you use it offstage, because it's not particularly slow, and the sourspot's horizontal knockback is often all you need to gimp.
Against characters with bad range on their moves (such as Wario and Diddy's Forward-B), you can stick a N-Air out, trade with their moves, and spike them. When you don't trade, late N-Air spike -> D-Air may as well be guaranteed against almost every character--Just don't hesitate. (Ignore the practicality of the first N-Air and look at the end--)
F-Air is a reliable for hitting at a 45-degree angle below you without resorting to D-Air; it gets KOs at higher percentages.
Ivysaur's tether recovery also allows her to abuse invincibility on the ledge better than most characters when edgeguarding, and the fact that its use moves you up while in the air, as well as the fact that the "swing" making Ivysaur move extremely quickly, can help for adding more speed and mindgames. She has a whole lot going for her if you know how to deal with what they'll try to hit you with as they come back.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I want to find a way to grab the edge and hang hella low like from a long tether faster.
I want to know if we are tethered but not on the edge, can someone knock us off.
or is out tether grabbing the edge taking up the edge and invincible.
I want to know if we are tethered but not on the edge, can someone knock us off.
or is out tether grabbing the edge taking up the edge and invincible.
You can only be knocked off the edge while tethered if your character is hit. The vine itself doesn't have a hitbox when trying to tether and when tethered, and is therefore invincible.
That thing where Ivysaur tries to grab the ledge and misses can either be because someone else grabs the ledge right before you do, or because the distance is too great. Depends on the situation, but both are possibilities.
As a result of this, you could go further out and take the ledge before someone else can get to it, avoiding the attack because you're not in the way of their Up-B.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Talking about this recovery stuff makes me realize something, how does it work with stages like smashville when you're aleready under the stage? when you recover then, the tether "misses" but ivys slides up the curve to the edge. I hope this situation sounds regonizable
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Doesn't it do that on your 4th tether after not coming on stage?
CoonTail
Smash Lord
To answer your first question miles......you usually have to tether cancel once and time the up-b. It never looks like your at maximum tether length when you wait after the tether cancel then re-tether because of your position offstage. But after you swing you end up hanging at the max length of the tether it's just a little tricky.
And if your tethered but not grabbing the edge, yes you can be knocked off if you dont have invincibility frames. I have been hit by dreidel's, bananas, shuttle loops.....etc etc.
So yes you can be hit but it's even kooler when your swinging after you tether and you swing past obstacles at the exact moment. Thats some indiana jones type **** while edgehogging with ivy's tether is when I proclaim "SPIDER-MAN" and I get stared at LOL.
The first thing to know is, if you want to attempt to grab the ledge via tether, you must face the direction of the center of the stage. It doesn't matter if the ledge is technically behind you.
That said, while there may be a bit of leeway for being "past" a 90-degree angle with the ledge, it generally doesn't work any further than that. As for being close enough for the tether to actually attempt a grab, the tether will attempt and fail if something is in the way (say, if you try to tether from above and the Smashville platform gets in the way at the last second). I imagine since you're under the lip and the tether always goes at a straight line, the lip is blocking the ledge itself, and it fails due to that.
However, you can tether about the same distance on either side of the ledge if it's a stage you can jump through, such as Delfino Plaza or Halberd. Again, make sure you're facing the center of the stage, though.
That, too. It's the same effect as if something gets in the way.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Reflex (or anyone else), do you know of any ways that i can better myself playing with TJ Off? Tap Jump messes with my Ivysaur offstage, and it's one of the reasons why he's my worst of the three. I find myself using my second jump when i want to cancel my tether and attack. If i want to do it without using my second jump, i have to hold up on the control stick after i input an aerial move.
I'm not sure what you're asking. Is it, "how does PT benefit from having Tap Jump off?" or is it, "how can I get used to playing with Tap Jump off?"
If it's the latter, I'll have to figure it out soon myself, since I currently play with Tap Jump on.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
It was the latter, but thanks for the reply. Tap Jump really benefits me in the air because i feel like i have a lot more control. I also find it easier to meteor cancel. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
I enjoy how the designers had the foresight to limit Ivysaur planking.
DODGED A BULLET THERE GUYS
DODGED A BULLET THERE GUYS
Xyless
Smash Master
I rage every single time I clearly grab a ledge, and then a frame or two later, I get ledgeguarded.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
LOL ikr. It's like "Wow that might be op if she could just camp with that tether all day, let's stop that. Yeah I don't think anyone without a tether would be able to do that, hmmm."
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I did not articulate well early.
I have to go to class now.
I have to go to class now.
'saright--I should be around for a while tonight.
T-block
B2B TST
This seems to contradict some of the stuff you've said, Reflex.
[yt]86-0H96ZsMQ[/yt]
0:15
[yt]86-0H96ZsMQ[/yt]
0:15
I guess a bit, yeah. It appears that you can get it as long as you have a clear shot to the edge without the stage getting in the way. Smashville has a huge slant in the stage, allowing for more leeway.
T-block
B2B TST
I'm pretty sure Ivysaur is also facing away from the center of the stage. That's the main reason I brought it up, as I'm ashamed to admit I still don't understand why Ivysaur's tether misses when it does.
No. It may look like it, but I guarantee that it is not so. Note that the bulb always shifts away from the direction you mean to Vine Whip, and it shifts to the left in the video before the tether.
I went to my Wii and tested just to make sure I wasn't just crazy. It's definitely the way I described it.
T-block
B2B TST
I see. Definitely good to know.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Did you turn toward the center of the stage?
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
I am not sure I am currently trying to replicate this.
EDIT
ACtually that angle is pretty easy to replicate.
But lets get back to the invincible tether discussion!
EDIT
ACtually that angle is pretty easy to replicate.
But lets get back to the invincible tether discussion!
T-block
B2B TST
Ivy is definitely facing outwards there x.x
What were you talking about with invinc tether, Miles?
What were you talking about with invinc tether, Miles?
Ingoro
Smash Ace
T-block made my day,
Is it possible to constantly land on the stage by using your DI after a tether cancel, assuming you runjump off the stage, tether, cancel it and land on the stage again. sorry for the messy explanation but that's only how I can describe it.
Is it possible to constantly land on the stage by using your DI after a tether cancel, assuming you runjump off the stage, tether, cancel it and land on the stage again. sorry for the messy explanation but that's only how I can describe it.
It is, though I don't understand how it would be useful. I do it after KOs sometimes.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Showing off?