Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[Luxor]

Anything. He's Meta Knight.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Anything. He's Meta Knight.

That doesn't mean that all his options aren't beaten. At the moment, I really can't think of anything.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Nattori dont got **** on Ivysaur.


I was using Scarfed Ivysaur on pokemon online the otherday just to sleep powder random slow things or stun spore.


Ahhh being ******** is fun.

 

[Zigsta]

Wait, do you mean turn around? Is there a little range on the back end of the hitbox? I'll try it out later, sounds cool.

Nah, it's a lot simpler than that, haha.

If you think you should dash right and upsmash, then dash left and upsmash.

Basically, you're just trying to be as unpredictable as you can with it. Odds are if you think there's an opening and your opponent has even half of a clue as to the power of Ivysaur's upsmash, they'll spot that opening, too. But if you aim for the place they least expect it, you'll hit with it.

It sounds simple, but you'd be surprised at the results. I know I've been.

 

[T-block]

Not really sure what you mean, Reflex. sh b-air on-stage while he's on the ledge? He'd probably just wait for the b-air to end and then get back on if he wanted to be on the stage.

 

[Steeler]

does bair beat tornado?

 

[JOE!]

not sure, seeing as it's a flying-type move

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

does bair beat tornado?

Dair beats everything.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Not really sure what you mean, Reflex. sh b-air on-stage while he's on the ledge? He'd probably just wait for the b-air to end and then get back on if he wanted to be on the stage.

Short-hop B-Air on-stage while he's on the ledge, yes. His invincibility would run out by then if he decides not to go low, and if he does go low, another move could try to hit him. Either way, the important thing is that we can seem to force ledge grabs this way...if they don't want to take 4%. : |

does bair beat tornado?

At the correct angle, yes. It has to come down on the center of the move.

 

[Ingoro]

So what we have to do with ivy is, space with bair when he's nadoing and hoping he doesn't actually get hit by the bair so he doesn't find out it only takes 4%.

 

[John12346]

Speaking from a third party standpoint, I would gladly trade my Fair for your Bair

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Speaking from a third party standpoint, I would gladly trade my Fair for your Bair

Your F-Air is useless with Ivysaur's terrible aerial mobility.

 

[John12346]

Imagine if you could retreat those Bairs with the aerial mobility of, say, Yoshi or something.

That'd be ****

 

[JOE!]

give squirtle Ivy's Bair and Zard's Side Special

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

toooooooooooooooooby.

 

[typh]

toby !

 

[T-block]

You know... I wouldn't even care if you guys did it in the social thread -_-

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There was this thing I was thinking about while I was on vacation.

If you do Vine Whip and land on a surface before the animation is finished, you don't suffer any landing lag. This is common knowledge. However, there are two things I've been wondering as a result--

When you cancel Vine Whip, do you literally have zero landing lag? If I'm not mistaken, characters normally incur a few frames of "I can't do anything" when they land without doing any attack (which is why airdodging into the ground isn't super-safe).

When knockback/hitstun is ending, can you buffer a B move? Obviously, this is only important for weak attacks, since we can't Up-B the ledge like Link can Z-Air, and momentum canceling with aerials is much more useful than any of Ivysaur's B moves after being knocked away.

If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then, when Dedede is doing his D-Throw chaingrab, can we buffer Vine Whip, land on the ground, and immediately do whatever? That would allow us to play a mix-up game, rather than get chaingrabbed around.

 

[Zigsta]

Hmm, I never tried it. I guess I always assumed Ivyaur suffered lag, seeing as every top PT I've ever played has never done anything immediately afterwards.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hmm, I never tried it. I guess I always assumed Ivysaur suffered lag, seeing as every top PT I've ever played has never done anything immediately afterwards.

I mean, lag after a canceled Vine Whip, mind you. I know I've never done it because Vine Whip never occurred to me as a viable option in the situation, probably due to appearing to already be on the ground, but with the Dedede chaingrab, the game may as well consider you to be in the air during the hitstun, because when it finishes, the person thrown does the "I'm landing from the air" animation, which, in some cases, gives Dedede just enough time to grab them again.

Also, I believe the chaingrab timing against Ivysaur is fairly strict (by Dedede chaingrab standards). At the very least, Dedede can't guarantee a chaingrab on Ivysaur on Yoshi's Island due to the slant pushing you just far enough to start a Bullet Seed before he can regrab you.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Luis.

You blow my mind.

I hope you win Genesis II.

Ivysaur is really good at covering options from underneath someone on a platform.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Always when landing you'll at least suffer the lowfall lag (2frames) but if you fell for a longer distance it will be longfall (4frames), which is what makes airdodges unsafe, but sh airdodge for, for example, falco so good.

 

[T-block]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the no-lag Vine Whip works, but I don't see how this would be possible.

If Bullet Seed, which has super fast invincibility, can't get you out, how are you going to Vine Whip can get the lag cancelled in time?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Specials can't even be used that quickly.

Ever noticed that bucket breaking happens with an aerial? That's because specials break hitstun later than aerials/airdodges. That's also why Marth can't combo break EVERYTHING with upb.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the no-lag Vine Whip works, but I don't see how this would be possible.

If Bullet Seed, which has super fast invincibility, can't get you out, how are you going to Vine Whip can get the lag cancelled in time?

For some reason, I convinced myself that having Vine Whip buffered would cancel landing lag, and that buffering Bullet Seed wouldn't let the invincibility come out. I'm silly.

That being said, I'm going to test shield drop animations and see if we should aim Bullet Seed on a particular side of each opponent (like, how DK can't drop his shield when we're on either side using Bullet Seed because he throws his arms out). Perhaps we're missing something.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Upsmash Out of Shiled with Ivy is surprisingly good.

 

[Tesh]

Against what though? I never have anyone suffer 20+ frames of lag close enough to hit with that. I do think power shielding then hyphen smashing is pretty cool though.

 

[CoonTail]

I like the thought of mind here....I did not know that we could explore such options with the vinewhip. I have to say though the sound of getting out of D3's chaingrab was to sweet to actually believe.

I also have to say that the b-air options luis was talkin about with Ivy near the edge does do a good job until the opponent's notice the damage they are taking......it's a funny mindgame until then :|

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Using bair?

What damage?

O_o

 

[CoonTail]

Lol exactly what they end up noticing miles the further laughing at Ivy till they die to an unfatigued fresh dash attack

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Typhdashing > Dash Attack.

And Dash Attack is top tier mind you.

 

[thwolf94]

The other day I did some type of glide with ivysaur. He jumped and did a helicopter spin and then glided across the map. Do any of you know how to do this?

 

[Phiddlesticks]

dragon punch motion (forward, down, down-forward) + Z

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The other day I did some type of glide with ivysaur. He jumped and did a helicopter spin and then glided across the map. Do any of you know how to do this?

Yeah--Do a Back-Air and then get hit or do a glide toss.

Works for me every time.

 

[T-block]

notsureifserious.jpg

what are you talking about?

 

[Steeler]

The other day I did some type of glide with ivysaur. He jumped and did a helicopter spin and then glided across the map. Do any of you know how to do this?

this sounds hilarious can we make this a reality

 

[Ingoro]

New at? 'Helicopter Slide"
Commands: Prob something with ftilt, in THE AIR.

We're so good at supporting new Pt's.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Maybe you were Squirlte but the green one.

 

[Steeler]

Maybe you were Squirlte but the green one.

if i could facebook like posts i would like this one

 

[Ingoro]

I would like, your like.