Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[T-block]

The new hotness.

i downloaded it and it went straight to my porn folder

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ok, im not a brawl expert, but i have been playin for a while & even went into a couple of tourney. kk, so my question is, is ter a AT for ivysaur to use bullet seed while movin, cuz while i was playing against my friend, my ivysaur was using bullet seed & still sliding o.0 ... It wasnt as long as a dacus slide but it was still a good amount o.0 can anyone help me out here?

That's very vague.

The two situations I am familiar with would be using Bullet Seed while fastfalling onto slanted ground (which doesn't slide you much), or using it out of a run on ice (a great slide, and can be B-Reversed), as shown here.

I suppose it would also be possible to do if you're knocked into a wall almost horizontally at high speeds, don't tech, airdodge as you touch the ground, then use Bullet Seed while the momentum is still intact, but that's a ridiculously situational thing that will never happen in a real match.

If none of the above situations describe what you saw, it could be completely new, and would be REALLY useful if it's possible to do on normal ground.

 

[357jason]

That's very vague.

The two situations I am familiar with would be using Bullet Seed while fastfalling onto slanted ground (which doesn't slide you much), or using it out of a run on ice (a great slide, and can be B-Reversed), as shown here.

I suppose it would also be possible to do if you're knocked into a wall almost horizontally at high speeds, don't tech, airdodge as you touch the ground, then use Bullet Seed while the momentum is still intact, but that's a ridiculously situational thing that will never happen in a real match.

If none of the above situations describe what you saw, it could be completely new, and would be REALLY useful if it's possible to do on normal ground.

nope, it was final destination, i was losin bad -.- so i was plannin to dash attack towards him, then started spamming cuz i got nervous & then all of a sudden i was sliding a lil bit while using bullet seed

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Oh, just a little bit...

You can cancel your dash animation with special moves. Depending on the character's traction, they slide a certain distance. It's something all characters can do, and Ivysaur doesn't create a slide significant enough to make good use out of it.

 

[357jason]

Oh, just a little bit...

You can cancel your dash animation with special moves. Depending on the character's traction, they slide a certain distance. It's something all characters can do, and Ivysaur doesn't create a slide significant enough to make good use out of it.

a lil bit as in lik almost 2 king dedede distance (wow is ter better way 2 measure distance?)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't know what to tell you. If we could do it on command, that would be amazing.

 

[T-block]

what character were you playing against? could have been a windbox... TL maybe?

 

[357jason]

what character were you playing against? could have been a windbox... TL maybe?

nope, marth..... but tht wuld be a sick combo wit toon link

 

[Myollnir]

Maybe you were pushed while shielding?

 

[357jason]

Maybe you were pushed while shielding?

but i dashed at him, idk ima spend a day on ivysaur & c if i can do it again, i report bac if i find anything

 

[Myollnir]

Okay thanks, that would be great if you could do it again!

 

[357jason]

sorry guys, no luck but ima keep on tryna evrynow & then 2 see if i can find out what happened

 

[Myollnir]

Okay

I've just one question : can you do this on your own or do you need your opponent to do something special?

 

[357jason]

Okay

I've just one question : can you do this on your own or do you need your opponent to do something special?

hmmmmm, it only happened once & i was lik Yes Finally Ivy for a Higher Tier, but idk if it was because something i did or something marth may hav tried to do

 

[Myollnir]

Oh, I see. I don't think you saved the match, did you?

Did he try to pivot grab you? Maybe that made you slide forward.

 

[357jason]

i culdnt, i hav a non-hack brawl & it was over 5 minutes...

 

[GuruKid]

Frame data for some Ivy moves as requested by Reflex.

Ivysaur's hurtboxes are in yellow.
Red/green circles are hitbubbles (hitboxes).
Left GIF's are at approximately 1/3 game speed.
Due to Brawlbox limitations, hitbox interpolation ("dragging") are not shown; however, they do so in-game.
Hitbubbles with a star inside use the Sakurai Angle.

Neutral Air

Green Circle represents the meteor-angle hitbox.
Total: 41
Hits: 4-5, 8-9, 12-13, 16-17, 20-21, 24-25, 28-29
Auto Cancel: <4 34>
Landlag: 11
SDI-ability of first 6 hits are 20% normal potency.
Final hit inflicts double the normal hitlag on both characters.​

Back Air

Total: 43
Hits: 4-6, 13-15
Auto Cancel: <4 42>
Landlag: 10
First hit inflicts half the normal hitlag on both characters.​

Down Air

Yellow Circle represents the meteor-angle hitbox.
Total: 63
Hit: 11-12
Horizontal Movement Disabled: 3
Horizontal Movement Enabled: 41
Vertical Boost: 11
Auto Cancel: <3 51>
Landlag: 28
First hit inflicts half the normal hitlag on both characters.​

Neutral B: Bullet Seed (Initial Hit)
Grounded

Aerial

Total: 15
Hit: 4-5
Intangibility: 1-3
Hitboxes in both versions of Bullet Seed can only hits grounded targets.
Hits do not clang against other attacks.​

 

[T-block]

woo

gurukid i love you o.o

thanks so much for these... they're fantastic

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I feel like trying to just hit with the stream of Bulletseed is the best option these days.

 

[DrSoussou]

those are like, the coolest diagrams ever. i feel like they belong on sports science or something

 

[Myollnir]

List of moves that can be avoided with Ivysaur's U-tilt :

Remember that Ivysaur's U-tilt has a hitbox, so it can clank with non-transcendant moves that deal 14% or less (assuming the U-tilt is fresh, and Ivysaur isn't tired).

If the opponent can't grab during the U-tilt, it means that if you hit his shield with it and he does a reflexive grab, he'll get punished.

I bolded the important ones.

Meta Knight
Dash Attack
D-tilt
F-tilt1 (you'll get hit with F-tilt2 afterwards so...)
D-smash
F-smash
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack (<100%)
Ledge attack (>100%)

Falco
NeutralB -> you can avoid the lasers shot from the ground, the SHDL and the SHDL when the second laser isn't canceled.
SideB -> used from the ground or immediatly after a SH.
DownB
D-tilt
F-tilt -> neutral/down.
U-smash -> not at close range.
D-smash
F-smash -> not at close range.
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack (<100%)
Ledge attack (>100%)

Zero Suit Samus
NeutralB -> uncharged.
SideB -> not the tip of the hitbox, just the middle.
D-tilt
F-tilt -> neutral/down.
D-smash -> safe on block, so the U-tilt might be useful to avoid it.
F-smash
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack (<100%)
Ledge attack (>100%)

King Dedede
Dash attack -> the tip of the hitbox
Jab
D-tilt
F-tilt
D-smash
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack (<100%)

Olimar
D-tilt (you'll be hit with the 2nd hit, which has no hitstun, so you can punish)
F-smash
D-smash
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack <100%
Ledge attack >100%

Marth
D-tilt
U-smash (first hit, the weak hit)
D-smash
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack <100%
Ledge attack >100%

Snake
DownB
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash (first hit)
Grab
Get-up attack
Ledge attack <100%
Ledge attack >100%
I'll complete with other characters pretty much every day.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can't clank with Meta Knight's sword attacks, though.

 

[Myollnir]

Remember that Ivysaur's U-tilt has a hitbox, so it can clank with non-transcendant moves that deal 14% or less (assuming the U-tilt is fresh, and Ivysaur isn't tired).

It's a transcendant move, I thought my sentence was clear. :/

How can I re-phrase it?

Oh and by the way, you can clank with his Glide Attack, but it's not important.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Not everyone knows those things, though--You have to specify character-specific stuff, IMO.

 

[CoonTail]

Frame data for some Ivy moves as requested by Reflex.

Ivysaur's hurtboxes are in yellow.
Red/green circles are hitbubbles (hitboxes).
Left GIF's are at approximately 1/3 game speed.
Due to Brawlbox limitations, hitbox interpolation ("dragging") are not shown; however, they do so in-game.
Hitbubbles with a star inside use the Sakurai Angle.

OH WOW I somehow missed this until now and the info on N-air is absurd. Super shoutouts to guru kid because this is exactly what I have been looking for!!!!